goatguy-too Posted January 9, 2014 (90) Jesus said, "Come unto me, for my yoke is easy and my lordship is mild, and you will find repose for yourselves." Mt 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. Mt 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. Mt 11:30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light. The primary reason for Thomas's teaching is to show us how to read scripture. Here Thomas is playing on the words על 'ole' which is 'yoke' and אל 'el' which is 'God' or 'Lord'. The teaching is essentially he same, and Thomas is showing how the puns are used in scripture to give meaning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 9, 2014 This one actually goes with the previous one. (91) They said to him, "Tell us who you are so that we may believe in you."He said to them, "You read the face of the sky and of the earth, but you have not recognized the one who is before you, and you do not know how to read this moment." Lk 12:54 ¶ And he said also to the people, When ye see a cloud rise out of the west, straightway ye say, There cometh a shower; and so it is.Lk 12:55 And when ye see the south wind blow, ye say, There will be heat; and it cometh to pass.Lk 12:56 Ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky and of the earth; but how is it that ye do not discern this time? 'Sky' שחק also means 'play'. Thomas is focussing on the 'play of the heavens' which is the riddling which he is teaching. The word 'moment' is 'רגע' which also means 'rest' and 'splitting apart'. Christ offers us rest by being split apart from the Father on the cross as prefigured by the parting of the waters and the splitting of various scrifices, and the splitting of the rock, etc. Jesus is teaching how to 'rest' in his word."You can see the riddles of heaven, and the literal of the written word, yet you cannot yet recognize Jesus (and the rest he offers)?" They did after the cross when he was 'split'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 9, 2014 (90) Jesus said, "Come unto me, for my yoke is easy and my lordship is mild, and you will find repose for yourselves." The primary reason for Thomas's teaching is to show us how to read scripture. Here Thomas is playing on the words על 'ole' which is 'yoke' and אל 'el' which is 'God' or 'Lord'. The teaching is essentially he same, and Thomas is showing how the puns are used in scripture to give meaning. Hi Goatguy, I don't quite understand your point or see how this passage is in support of puns being used. Don't you think that in this passage, Jesus is describing his relationship to the world (and humanity) and how one may find "repose" (peace and rest in God)? Thanks, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Jeff, Thanks for asking. The premise from the beginning of this thread is that Thomas is not Gnostic since it teaches orthodox Christianity, and that it may not even be quotes from Jesus directly, but a tutorial on how to read the sensus plenior of the Bible. I doubt very much that #114 is an actual saying of Jesus, but I have no doubt that it is a key to solving scriptural riddles. In this context, when Thomas says something different from the Biblical record, we assume that he is commenting on the hermeneutic. Certainly, the parallel teaching of Jesus in the Bible teaches what you suggest. But since there is some doubt that Thomas is quoting Jesus directly, I hesitate to place the teaching from Thomas in the mouth of Jesus. And in the context of this thread, I am showing the methods of biblical riddle. Sometimes I just give an interpretation to show that it is a biblical interpretation, especially when they are very similar. When I can point out the mechanics of riddle, I try to do so. There is another Gospel of Thomas thread where they are primarily dealing with the meaning of the Thomas sayings.Hope this helps. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 10, 2014 (edited) Hi Goatguy, Thank you for your thoughtful response. Do your above comments mean that you do not believe that the Gospel of Thomas agrees with and supports orthodox Christianity, hence rather than being the words of Jesus, you believe it is sort of an instruction manual for riddles in the canonical bible? Also, do you believe the words of Jesus in the biblical gospels are words that can be attributed to him, or are they also riddles? Finally, if you don't mind a personal question, what denomination of Christianty are you from/describing? Thanks again, Jeff Edited January 10, 2014 by Jeff 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 11, 2014 Hi Goatguy, Thank you for your thoughtful response. Do your above comments mean that you do not believe that the Gospel of Thomas agrees with and supports orthodox Christianity, hence rather than being the words of Jesus, you believe it is sort of an instruction manual for riddles in the canonical bible? Also, do you believe the words of Jesus in the biblical gospels are words that can be attributed to him, or are they also riddles? Finally, if you don't mind a personal question, what denomination of Christianty are you from/describing? Thanks again, Jeff I do not believe that the Gospel of Thomas was intended as a doctrinal work, but as an instructional piece on how to read the Bible. As such, it's doctrines are incidentally orthodox Christian. The sensus plenior is the meaning intended by God, but unknown to the human author. Since God directed the human author to write the literal, and unknowingly produce the hidden, they are both in agreement. So the riddles of the Bible are also orthodox. I am not from a denomination. The sensus plenior settles many of the issues that denominations (and skeptics) argue about. They are unlikely to embrace it because it would require a new hermeneutic and an adjusting of some of the beliefs. An example is the discussion of free will and predestination. There are three women at the same well. Abraham (the Father) chose a bride for his son. Jacob (the Son) wooed and worked for his bride. And the woman at Sychar (meaning 'intoxicated' as a metaphor for the Spirit at Pentecost) was gathered with the other town's folk by the Spirit. These three stories tell the roles of the three persons of the godhead in obtaining a bride for the Son, and in each case, the bride had the choice to marry. Though we are chosen by the Father, wooed by the Son, and gathered by the Spirit, we choose to be with God. It is a relationship like a marriage. If a denomination were to embrace this method of interpretation it would be from the Restoration movement, like Church of Christ or Disciples, etc. Theoretically, they would like to read the Bible the way Jesus and the apostles did. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Posted January 11, 2014 I do not believe that the Gospel of Thomas was intended as a doctrinal work, but as an instructional piece on how to read the Bible. As such, it's doctrines are incidentally orthodox Christian. The sensus plenior is the meaning intended by God, but unknown to the human author. Since God directed the human author to write the literal, and unknowingly produce the hidden, they are both in agreement. So the riddles of the Bible are also orthodox. I am not from a denomination. The sensus plenior settles many of the issues that denominations (and skeptics) argue about. They are unlikely to embrace it because it would require a new hermeneutic and an adjusting of some of the beliefs. An example is the discussion of free will and predestination. There are three women at the same well. Abraham (the Father) chose a bride for his son. Jacob (the Son) wooed and worked for his bride. And the woman at Sychar (meaning 'intoxicated' as a metaphor for the Spirit at Pentecost) was gathered with the other town's folk by the Spirit. These three stories tell the roles of the three persons of the godhead in obtaining a bride for the Son, and in each case, the bride had the choice to marry. Though we are chosen by the Father, wooed by the Son, and gathered by the Spirit, we choose to be with God. It is a relationship like a marriage. If a denomination were to embrace this method of interpretation it would be from the Restoration movement, like Church of Christ or Disciples, etc. Theoretically, they would like to read the Bible the way Jesus and the apostles did. Hi Goatguy, Thanks again for your response. I apologize for the disruption of your thread. I was just trying to understand why you believe the Gospel of Thomas was viewed as a riddle instructional piece rather than doctrinal. It is not a position I have ever heard described before. Best wishes, Jeff Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
deci belle Posted January 11, 2014 …God directed the human author to write the literal, and unknowingly produce the hidden, they are both in agreement. sigh…❤ Just the fact that people can hear these words is immense. Since it is so, that people can then see the hidden naturally doesn't change its agreement with the literal. So literalists take heed! Since agreement is already the pattern of reality, there is no need to stick to rote understanding. Riddle and symbolism is how the literal is an opening in the duct of unspeakability, so wonderfully illustrated by goatguy. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 12, 2014 Hi Goatguy, Thanks again for your response. I apologize for the disruption of your thread. I was just trying to understand why you believe the Gospel of Thomas was viewed as a riddle instructional piece rather than doctrinal. It is not a position I have ever heard described before. Best wishes, Jeff Jeff, there is no such thing as a disruption here. Sometimes I feel like I am singing in the shower. ;-) I am happy to have your questions and comments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 12, 2014 (edited) (92) Jesus said, "Seek and you will find. Yet, what you asked me about in former times and which I did not tell you then, now I do desire to tell, but you do not inquire after it." If we take this as a literal saying of Jesus, then it would be after the cross, and we must guess what it is that they are not asking him. But as a riddle we ask, What was Jesus unable to tell them plainly prior to the cross which he could tell them after the cross but that they were not asking? Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what [shall be] the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Mt 24:36But of that day and hour knoweth no [man], no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. Neither the Son nor the Holy Ghost knew the sign of his coming. In resurrection, he apparently knew. This is where is gets interesting, and why evangelicals will not accept this teaching. Many today teach that either before or after the anti-Christ is revealed the church will be raptured, there is a great tribulation, and the end of the world when Christ returns. There are enough variations to make most people happy one way or the other. The problem is that they are likely wrong. Now, eschatology is supposed to be a secondary doctrine, meaning that it is not essential for salvation. People believing different things are supposed to be able to get along. But they don't. So as soon as I say something contradictory, someone will label me a heretic. So let me say that the following is an observation and it makes no difference to me whether anyone believes it or not. The book of Matthew is broken into four parts. Whithin each part the structure of the writing is such that the first half will be a teaching of Jesus, and the second half is a narrative about what Jesus did. There is a pattern, like poetry, but using subtle ideas like ABCD...abcd... For instance, in Chapter 5 Jesus goes up the hill and says, Blessed are the poor in spirit... In Chapter 8 he comes down the hill and heals a leper. Who would be more poor in spirit than a leper? He says blessed are the meek... and a Centurian comes to Jesus and considers himself a servant to his servant in requesting Jesus to heal, and does not consider himself worthy to have Jesus enter his home. He is an excellent model of meekness. The pattern occurs in the last block which speaks about the end times. It would almost be a doctoral thesis to spell it out in detail, so I will just give some highlights. Hearts waxing cold : His disciples slept while he prayed at Gethsemane. Stones scattered : the disciples scattered The abomination that causes desolation : Judas kisses Jesus to betray him "He who condemns a righteous man is an abomination" The great tribulation: A holy God placed in the hjands of sinful man, the Son made to be sin incarnate. Had the days of tribulation not been shortened no flesh would be saved: Had Jesus not be rushed to the cross, had he died in prison, or if the crucifixion had been delayed until after Passover, no flesh would have been saved... ever. This cannot be said of any other supposed 'Great Tribulation'. The desolation : God incarnate has been made to be sin, the Father departs leaving him alone on the cross, Where is God on earth? How much greater can the desolation be? The parallel passage when they are guarding the tomb has the disciples looking toward heaven. It is suggested that at the time of your death, you are raptured. We each are raptured at different times, but we arrive in timeless eternity simultaneously (because there is not time). Now we can understand his other teachings: Two are in the field and one is taken. Two things are two aspects of one thing. The spirit is taken and the body left behind. Two are in the bed and one is taken. It appears to us that they died in their sleep, but to them they are raptured and meet us in the air. Jesus said that all these things would happen before that generation passed away. Which generation? Every generation that reads it. We are all raptured. Why can't he now tell us the day of his coming, because it is every day that he sneaks back like a thief in the night and steals away his own. Our generation will not pass away before we each see his return. They do not now ask him what day it will be, because it would be asking him the day of their own death. Edited January 12, 2014 by goatguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) (93) <Jesus said,> "Do not give what is holy to dogs, lest they throw them on the dung-heap. Do not throw the pearls to swine, lest they [...] it [...]." Mt 7:6 Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. After offending Evangelicals with the last one, this one will offend many others. The meaning of the simple riddle is easy. Pr 26:11 As a dog returneth to his vomit, so a fool returneth to his folly. 2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire. Pr 11:22 ¶ [As] a jewel of gold in a swine’s snout, [so is] a fair woman which is without discretion. The dog represents those who go back to their sin and the swine is one who has no discretion in what they 'eat'. They accept any teaching as true. But the simple meaning of the riddle does not address the issues brought up by Thomas. The word קדש for 'holy' also means 'male temple prostitute' and so does the word for 'dog' כלב. The phrase 'lest they throw them on the dung-heap' which does not occur in Matthew is likely an addition to highlight the word play for 'holy' and 'dogs' by focusing attention on the idea of 'abominable things' such as dung. The hieroglyphics of quodesh קדש mean 'ק after the resurrection of the Son' 'ד there is a shout, declaration, proclamation' and 'ש God's word is effective with two results'. Compare this with: 1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [followed by a second group]. There are two meanings to this. There are two resurrections, those who have died previously, then those who are alive at his coming, and the righteous and the unrighteous. Paul picked up on the first meaning, Thomas is showing the second. The reason that the male temple prostitute represents the opposite of 'Holy' is based on symbols we have already examined. The female represents those who do not see clearly; they do not understand, and they are also pictured as 'the blind'. The male represents those who understand. The one who understands, but willfully chooses to be deluded is represented by the sodomite, a male choosing the behavior of the female. This willful rejection of God is amplified by the action taking place in the temple, indicating that it is not merely a rejection of God, but an attempt at usurping God's position. Jesus uses the same imagery when confronting the money changers in the temple saying that the tax collectors and harlots would enter the kingdom before they would. The tax collectors only collect money in the flesh, but those who sold things in the temple had served mammon spiritually. The harlots had sinned in the flesh, but the Pharisees had sold themselves figuratively as temple prostitutes because they had brought their false god and religion into the temple. He is saying that they knowingly and willingly were rejecting God and replacing him with their own religion of greed. The second half of Thomas's saying is missing, but it will likely show a similar word play that we may be able to discern from Matthew's saying. There are a few things in the scriptures which were trampled down: A counselor to the king (who did not believe Elisha (2Ki 7:2), Jezebel (2Ki 9:33), thistle (2Ki 14:9, 2Ch 25:18), the Messiah (Ps 7:5). The key is the thistle חוח which represents a distinction of choice between lifestyles. (ח represents life). The swine is undiscerning in it's diet. It will, for a time, claim the truth to be truth, but then will turn again and proclaim the lie to be truth. It is said that there is nothing worse than a sober drunk except a drunk sober drunk. They turn against sobriety with a vengeance. One who accepts the truth of Christ intellectually, but is not converted in Spirit becomes the most vociferous opponent of Christ when they choose to reject their intellectual conversion. In this forum, you all have been most gracious, even though I have shared things which I know are offensive (from reading other threads). But it would not be surprising to have other readers pop in and see stuff out of context and be most ungracious. The purpose of this post is not to condemn anyone, but to show the symbolism used by Thomas in the context of orthodox Christianity. This post has nothing to do with gender, gender identity, sexual preferences, etc. The female is used to represent the blind. It says nothing about women. The word 'rend' also means 'to accuse'. The swine cannot discern truth from error, and will accept truth for a time, until that truth suggests that they not longer wallow in abominable things, then they will accuse the bearers of truth as being judgmental, and worse. Edited January 20, 2014 by goatguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) (94) Jesus said, "He who seeks will find, and he who knocks will be let in." Mt 7:7 ¶ Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: Examining the hieroglyphics: בקש 'Seek': 'ב enter in' 'ק the Son's death' 'ש for a dual response from God's word' and you will מצא 'find': 'מ the covenant made in heaven' 'צ through the holiness and grace revealed by the son of man' 'א brings reconciliation'. 'Find' is a pun to 'matsa' the unleavened bread which is the 'body of Christ in the communion. 'Knock' דפק , in hieroglyphics means 'ד a word' 'פ spoken' 'ק unto death'. When you knock, you persist. It is used of a herdsman driving the sheep until they die. Thomas is using it to say , "Speak of the cross/death". The result is that something is 'opened' פקח. The sub-root occurs in both 'knock' and 'opened'. Opened ends with ח which is 'life'. If you speak of the cross (the death of Christ), you will receive life. The hidden message of Thomas: If you enter into the death of the Son will find reconciliation with God (through is body which is broken for us) as he promised. If you speak of the cross (death of Christ), you will receive life. What Thomas missed was the first part of the saying of Matthew: "Ask, and it shall be given you." 'Ask' שאל is a pun to שאול 'Sheol' or the grave. שאל also means 'given upon request'. It is the object which was asked for. It is understandable why one might miss this part of the riddle since the sense is opposite that of the other 2/3 of the saying. This one says if you ask for death, you get it. The others say that if you seek the cross and speak (preach) the cross, you will get life. Is it a coincidence that in Revelation 1/3 of stuff is destroyed. Probably not. It is probably part of the same riddle. Romans 1:18ff says that God gives you what you desire and lets you wallow in the consequences. Occasionally, you have seen that I have been unable to address parts of Thomas's riddles. I just leave it out. This is evidence that Thomas's writing came before mine. I can only explain that parts I understand. Likewise, the omission here is evidence that Matthew probably wrote before Thomas, and that Thomas was unable to expound on this part of Jesus's riddle as recorded by Matthew. Edited January 20, 2014 by goatguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 20, 2014 (edited) (95) Jesus said, "If you have money, do not lend it at interest, but give it to one from whom you will not get it back." The plain teaching is simple enough. The kingdom of heaven is not stuff that you possess. The interpretive priciple here is designed to correct misunderstandings about money. It is not evil. "If you have money" implies that it is money that is in excess of what you need. It is available to be lended. Rather than invest in the things in this world, give it to those who have need in this world. It demonstrated where your heart is. The riddle is implied by the Hebrew 'val chomer' argument. It goes like this in the general form: If this small thing is true, how much more is this similar larger thing true? So what is the hidden large thing to which Thomas refers (as he teaches us to use the val chomer argument)? If your excess money (which is valuable in the flesh) should be given away freely to those who have need, certainly the word of God (which has a much greater value to the spirit) shoud be given away to those who have need. Put this in the context of the saying of the temple prostitutes, and you see that the money changers in the temple violated this spiritual principle. So make your Paypal payments out to Goatguy.... just kidding. What has been freely given should be freely given. As the living water is given away, the one giving loses nothing and the word is increased in the world. Edited January 20, 2014 by goatguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 20, 2014 (96) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a certain woman. She took a little leaven, concealed it in some dough, and made it into large loaves. Let him who has ears hear." Mt 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened. Why did Thomas say the 'kingdom of the father' rather than the' kingdom of heaven' as Matthew says? There is word play between 'father' and 'dough'. Examinig the hieroglyphics: אב Father the one who came in after the separation. בצק dough: 'ב in' 'צק poured' 'leaven' is 'teaching' as we have seen before. Thomas also changes the focus from the 'kingdom of heaven' to 'a certain woman'. The woman always represents the church which is the bride of Christ. Matthew's says that the kingdom of heaven is 'teaching' or 'leaven' where Thomas says the kingdom of the Father is the bride of Christ which places the new teaching of Christ, in the loaf, which has no old teaching in it. Normally, the loaf is seen as Christ, but because "we will be like him", the things that are spoken of Christ, apply to us, though sometimes in a different sense than as applied to Christ. Thomas is making a commentary that the new teaching of Christ is not an isolated idea. It is not an intellectual exercise. It is not separated from those who have been called to be the bride, but is demonstrated by the changed lives of those who are the bride. Unfortunately, there are many who call themselves Christian, to whom the Lord will say, "Depart from me. I never knew you." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 20, 2014 (97) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a certain woman who was carrying a jar full of meal. While she was walking on the road, still some distance from home, the handle of the jar broke and the meal emptied out behind her on the road. She did not realize it; she had noticed no accident. When she reached her house, she set the jar down and found it empty." It would appear that Thomas is becoming emboldened to create his own illustrative sayings in order to display his ability to use the symbols. Before someone condemns Thomas for 'adding to the word of God' we should be mindful that nearly every preacher invents allegories or metaphors which hopefully are based in the truth of scripture. Thomas is doing no more than this. We could do the same about now: If a man were to dress as a woman and lead a herd of goats by a church, it would be reminiscent of the 'dinner theater' that God called the prophets to enact in order to prophetically judge Israel. It would be a sign that someone who knew the truth (male) chose to do the works of someone who didn't see clearly (garments of the woman). It would be implied that they chose to ignore the truth in order to be attractive to the congregation represented by the goats, who were living in the flesh rather than the spirit. This saying of Thomas is built upon the last. It is the same 'certain woman'; the church. The word for a stalk (as a stalk of corn) is קמה and for flour or meal is קמח. The difference is between the ה which represents a partial response to God's word, and ח which is a full response. There is an old joke about the chicken being 'committed' to a breakfast by giving an egg and the pig being 'dedicated' by giving the bacon. The stalk has responded to God's word in the earth; it stands up in the earth. The meal is the seed of the stalk which has dedicated itself by enduring the tribulation of the threashing floor. קמה After the resurrection of the Son, the covenant made in heaven is responded to in part (on earth) whereas it is responded to in full קמח by the meal. We are also called pots and vessels.... So the church empties itself as it lives/walks. It does not consider the emptying to be an accident. It is by God's design. The teaching of the father is fully lived out through the church. When the life of the church is over (laid down) it is found to be fully poured out. It has spent it's life in total devotion even through tribulation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 27, 2014 (98) Jesus said, "The kingdom of the father is like a certain man who wanted to kill a powerful man. In his own house he drew his sword and stuck it into the wall in order to find out whether his hand could carry through. Then he slew the powerful man." The word for 'wall' שור is also 'bull' which is the sacrifice representing Christ. Judgment begins with the house of God 1Pe 4:17 For the time [is come] that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if [it] first [begin] at us, what shall the end [be] of them that obey not the gospel of God? Judgment began when Christ laid down his own life (the bull) and then passes to his house (the wall) then to his enemy. The word for wall also means 'enemy'. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) (99) The disciples said to him, "Your brothers and your mother are standing outside." He said to them, "Those here who do the will of my father are my brothers and my mother. It is they who will enter the kingdom of my father." Compare: Mt 12:47 Then one said unto him, Behold, thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to speak with thee. 48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren? 49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren! 50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother. Matthew records the 'sister' in the list of relatives and Thomas does not. This may indicate that Matthew had a better grasp of the the riddle than Thomas, and may serve to indicate an earlier authorship, or just a lack of understanding at a later date. Jesus was born a Hebrew and the Hebrews were the 'mother' of him in the flesh. Those Hebrews who were following him but did not yet understand represent his spiritual mother (the female does not see clearly). The sister would represent the gentiles who were following without understanding, and the brothers are the discoiples who followed and did understand. Also notice there is no father on the list, because no one should be called father, in the spiritual sense, but God himself. (Mt 23:9) Edited January 28, 2014 by goatguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (100) They showed Jesus a gold coin and said to him, "Caesar's men demand taxes from us." He said to them, "Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar, give God what belongs to God, and give me what is mine." Compare: Mt 22:17 Tell us therefore, What thinkest thou? Is it lawful to give tribute unto Caesar, or not? 18 But Jesus perceived their wickedness, and said, Why tempt ye me, ye hypocrites? 19 Shew me the tribute money. And they brought unto him a penny. 20 And he saith unto them, Whose is this image and superscription? 21 They say unto him, Caesar’s. Then saith he unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which are Caesar’s; and unto God the things that are God’s. The literal teaching is the same, so it cannot be said that this is a Gnostic teaching. Observe the differences: Thomas references a gold coin vs. a denarius which was a silver coin and the name means 'ten asses' from a laborer's ability to load ten asses with goods he harvested in the day. It was probably a day's wage. Matthew's silver coins were a refererence to Jesus in the flesh (silver) and Thomas's gold references Jesus in deity or resurrection. The image or inscription is examined in Matthew to see who owns it, but Thomas's gold coin belongs to Jesus as God, which is being demanded by the tax collectors. This is the cause for Thomas's addition, "give me what is mine". No one who understands the spiritual meaning is expected to apply it to the literal objects. Though all things belong to God, we still do what is required of us by government because God established government. The Christian recognizes that the money paid through taxes is paid as if it were given to God. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (101) <Jesus said,> "Whoever does not hate his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. And whoever does not love his father and his mother as I do cannot become a disciple to me. For my mother [...], but my true mother gave me life." Lu 14:26 If any [man] come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple. Again this is literally a similar teaching so it cannot be said to be Gnostic. The key to understanding what is being said comes from an obscure law: De 19:5 As when a man goeth into the wood with his neighbour to hew wood, and his hand fetcheth a stroke with the axe to cut down the tree, and the head slippeth from the helve, and lighteth upon his neighbour, that he die; he shall flee unto one of those cities, and live: De 19:6 Lest the avenger of the blood pursue the slayer, while his heart is hot, and overtake him, because the way is long, and slay him; whereas he [was] not worthy of death, inasmuch as he hated him not in time past. Buried in the statement "he hated him not in time past" is the implication that the accident was an act of hate. This may seem extreme, however, Love is the choice to put another first. The opposite of love is hate, and if the person is not loved, he is hated. The wood-chopper did not take the safety of the other into account first. He placed the act of chopping wood to be more important than the safety of his friend. Now we can understand what God meant by: Ro 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. God placed the firstborn son Esau to be in the place of the second and Jacob to inherit. Christ must be first in our priorities before all others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (102) Jesus said, "Woe to the pharisees, for they are like a dog sleeping in the manger of oxen, for neither does he eat nor does he let the oxen eat." Compare : Mt 23:13 ¶ But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in [yourselves], neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in. Though it appears to be an original saying it is basically the same teaching contained in Matthew. The dogs are those who "return to their vomit"; they like their sin. Sleep is used for 'death'. The Pharisees are already dead, though they are physically alive. They do not 'eat' the word of God from Jesus's teaching. And their very presence keeps others from hearing as well. Here 'oxen' is plural and represent his followers (in the manger) in a similar fashion as sheep. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (103) Jesus said, "Fortunate is the man who knows where the brigands will enter, so that he may get up, muster his domain, and arm himself before they invade." When Israel entered the promised land the story contains a hidden picture of the church plagued by temptations of the flesh. The enemies that they drove out, and those which continued to cause problems represent those temptations. The temptations of the flesh have been clearly identified so that the man of God may be prepared to resist. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (104) They said to Jesus, "Come, let us pray today and let us fast." Jesus said, "What is the sin that I have committed, or wherein have I been defeated? But when the bridegroom leaves the bridal chamber, then let them fast and pray." Compare: Mr 2:19 And Jesus said unto them, Can the children of the bridechamber fast, while the bridegroom is with them? as long as they have the bridegroom with them, they cannot fast. Mr 2:20 But the days will come, when the bridegroom shall be taken away from them, and then shall they fast in those days. Once again the literal is so similar it cannot be said to be Gnostic. The invitation to pray and fast is a declaration that there is need of divine assistance and is a denial that Jesus is divine. The only way that prayer and fasting would be necessary in the presence of Jesus is if he failed his mission to be tempted in every way that we are, yet not sin. When he is not with us, we may acknowledge our own frailties and failures. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (105) Jesus said, "He who knows the father and the mother will be called the son of a harlot." Normally if you don't know the father, one is called the son of a harlot. In the case of Christ, he is the only one who knew his father. He was called the son of a harlot. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (106) Jesus said, "When you make the two one, you will become the sons of man, and when you say, 'Mountain, move away,' it will move away." This verse speaks directly of one of the hints we have used before. When there are two things, they represent two aspects of one thing. Spirit/body, heaven/earth, marrow/joint, intent of the heart/passing thought, light/dark, sun/moon, day/night, water/dry land, etc. More than just understanding it is living it. For us the spirit and body must have the same intent, message, meaning, purpose, etc. The mountain is where men go to meet God. After the resurrection the mountain became a symbol of the false place to meet God since he was now in the hearts of men (the sea). One who is like Jesus (sons of man), may cast down idols and false gods. (This is a figurative saying meaning that he may purge himself of such idols). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goatguy-too Posted January 28, 2014 (107) Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a shepherd who had a hundred sheep. One of them, the largest, went astray. He left the ninety-nine sheep and looked for that one until he found it. When he had gone to such trouble, he said to the sheep, 'I care for you more than the ninety-nine.'" Compare: Mt 18:12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. Thomas and Matthew both use 100 representing the church (the tithe of the king (1000) and ninety-nine which is 9 (three persons who are each fully God 3x3) x 11. Recall the story of the twelve sons of Jacob. 11 were safe with Jacob, and Joseph, the one he loved most was in Egypt. Joseph was the biggest sheep since he had become the ruler of Egypt. Christ is the greatest in the kingdom because he served us all, as did Joseph when he saved teh world from famine. Though the church is loved, Christ s loved most. How did Jesus 'go astray'? He was made to be sin, so that wecould be made the righteousness of God. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites