Gospel of Thomas - Class notes on sensus plenior

[goatguy-too]

(108) Jesus said, "He who will drink from my mouth will become like me. I myself shall become he, and the things that are hidden will be revealed to him."

 

The living water is the teaching of Christ. When we drink of it we become like him as we put off the flesh and live by the spirit. Christ dwells within us, and we shall have our eyes opened... understanding the scriptures. The study of the teaching, and indwelling Spirit help us understand the teaching.

 

 

2Ti 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

[goatguy-too]

(109) Jesus said, "The kingdom is like a man who had a hidden treasure in his field without knowing it. And after he died, he left it to his son. The son did not know (about the treasure). He inherited the field and sold it. And the one who bought it went plowing and found the treasure. He began to lend money at interest to whomever he wished."

 

These are the sons of God. The first was Adam who had a hidden treasure in the garden but didn't know it. HIs son Israel (the nation) also had the treasure in the Torah, but didn't know it. The church now has the treasure and when it shares it, gets more in return.

[goatguy-too]

(110) Jesus said, "Whoever finds the world and becomes rich, let him renounce the world."

 

This is one of the few direct admonitions. Everyone lives in the world but they are blind to the spirit. When you find the spirit you become rich, you find that you are in the world, and it is time to renounce the world.

[goatguy-too]

(111) Jesus said, "The heavens and the earth will be rolled up in your presence. And the one who lives from the living one will not see death." Does not Jesus say, "Whoever finds himself is superior to the world?"

 

Compare:

 

Joh 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

Ro 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

 

When you "find yourself" (your eyes are opened) you put off the flesh by resisting the temptations of the flesh and are better than the flesh.

[goatguy-too]

(112) Jesus said, "Woe to the flesh that depends on the soul; woe to the soul that depends on the flesh."

 

This is the classic riddle.

 

The answer is the third option. "Happy is the soul and the flesh that depends on Christ".

[goatguy-too]

(113) His disciples said to him, "When will the kingdom come?"

<Jesus said,> "It will not come by waiting for it. It will not be a matter of saying 'here it is' or 'there it is.' Rather, the kingdom of the father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."

 

The kingdom is the "New teaching of peace" which Jesus ushered in on the sermon of the mount by saying "You have heard it said... but I say".

[goatguy-too]

(114) Simon Peter said to him, "Let Mary leave us, for women are not worthy of life."

Jesus said, "I myself shall lead her in order to make her male, so that she too may become a living spirit resembling you males. For every woman who will make herself male will enter the kingdom of heaven."

 

I absolutely love this one because so many educated people mock Thomas using this verse saying that it is ridiculous nonsense. But compare to Jeremiah:

 

Jer 30:6 Ask ye now, and see whether a man doth travail with child? wherefore do I see every man with his hands on his loins, as a woman in travail, and all faces are turned into paleness?

 

Using their standard for interpretation we must say that Jeremiah is Gnostic nonsense. One cannot intelligently teach any doctrine on men, women or marriage until they can make sense of this prophecy.

 

The key is one we have used previously:

 

1Ti 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

 

Paul tells us that the woman represents those who are 'blind' or do not understand clearly. The old female donkey that led Jesus into Jersusalem represents the old prophets who did not see clearly. The young male donkey represented John the baptist who knew who Jesus was.

 

The Sikhs have a saying that men must become virgins. This is not an endorsement of Sikhism but evidence that the riddle is not unknown outside of Christian circles.

 

Those who do not understand (Mary, whose name means 'rebellious') will be taught be Jesus, so that they understand (become male). Those who understand (men) must become the bride of Christ (virgins), and they will become fruitful (pregnant).

 

I hope, at a minimum, that I have shown that it is not necessary to call Thomas Gnostic, since his sayings are consistent with orthodox Christian teaching when interpreted in (what I believe is) the proper genre of riddle.

 

I would additionally hope that I have given enough teasers to suggest that the same riddling takes place in the Bible, and contains the hidden prophecies of Christ which the human author could not have known about.

Edited January 28, 2014 by goatguy

[goatguy-too]

I would like to show how the methods demonstrated in Thomas are applied to the Bible. I will use Genesis 1:1 as the text.

בראשית ברא אלהים את השמים ואת הארץ Ge 1:1

The hieroglyphic meanings of the letters:

א the silent alef, represents the creation of the heavens and the earth. It is drawn as a vav dividing two yuds. A word is spoken and there are two creations. This is the primary meaning which gets applied as the division between any two things which are essentially one. It can also represent the reconciliation of the two by it's position in a word. In it we can see the division of the light and dark, the waters and dry land, the separation of holiness and grave, spirit and flesh, etc. Thomas uses it for 'war' in saying 16 and John uses it for water (from the division of the waters) in 1 John 5:8. Thomas uses aleph for 'war'


ר resh is a revelation. If the upper right hand corner were square, it would be a declaration, commandment, or a spoken word (and the letter would be a dalet). The difference between a revelation and a declaration is that the revelation contains aspects of personality or life. John uses resh for Word (as in the Word became flesh) in 1 John 5:8.

ב the bet when used as a prefix means 'in'. It is drawn as a resh (revelation) which joins the lower horizontal (representing earth or men). It is the personality of God being revealed to men. It is God's revelation 'in' or 'among' men.

ה the hei is another variation on the resh. The vertical line on the left represents a partial response to the revelation. There are three ways to respond to revelation. You can hear it as a voice but not understand. This is the response of blind faith. You can see (or understand) it, or you can walk (live) in it. The hei represents hearing.

י the yud represents God's first thought of creation. When he created, he could not create outside of himself, so he opened a void within himself. That void represents all the potential of all creation. All of the other letters are drawn by beginning with a yud. THey are expressed from the yud. All of the words are made from the letters, and everything God created he spoke into existence using the words. The blank page represents God. It is untouched and unspoiled by teh hand of man. The yud is the spark of creation that oozes from the blank page. The yud is pronounced 'yah' and is a short name for God. It represents that first thought of creation, or the one who thought it.

ו the vav is translated 'and'. It is the first word spoken into the void which discerned the heavens from the earth. The yud is the unified whole of all God would create. The vav discerns the heavenly aspects from the earthly aspects. Like the word 'and' it divides and joins. The use of 'and' tells us there are two, and yet it binds the two as one. Thomas uses the vav for sword (which discerns between soul and spirit, etc.)

ל lamed is a shared spiritual experience. The upper put originates above most of the letters which is something that originated with God. It is horizontal on the heavenly plane and shared with men as it descends. It is akin to 'teaching' where the student is fully engaged. The topic is of interest to teacher and student.

מם the mem has two forms. It is formed with a kaf (the Son of God) and a zayin (his bride). It represents a covenant declared in heaven. God chose a bride for his Son before the creation (see them touch in the upper part but not in the lower). The final form joins them on earth. John uses both in 1 John 5:8 for the Father (who chose the bride) and the Son (who was joined to the bride).

ץ the tsadi, shown in it's final form represents the heart of the righteous man (the messiah). It it the revelation of holiness and grace reconciled in his person (in the regular form) and in his death in the final form shown, as the tail descends below the lower horizontal.

ש The shin is drawn as a vav, a word spoken into the void, which has one primary response and a secondary. The first metaphor is that God spoke and created the heavens and the earth, with the emphasis being on the fact that he spoke. The alef focuses on the division. It means that "God's word doesn't return void". The shin represents the harvest (bringing the bride to the man) by the Spirit (who is represented by fire) and coincidentally the letter looks like a flame. John uses it for Spirit in 1 John 1:8.

ת the tav is another letter derived from the resh. This is a full response, a spontaneous response generated from the essence of life to the revelation of God. It represents a finished work. When tagged on to a subroot, it makes the subroot the object.

What isn't said
The alef is the first letter of the alef-bet, but it is not the first letter of the first revelation from God to men. The second letter has that privilege. Is it a coincidence that the first letter is silent, not used, and it means "God spoke and created the heavens and the earth" or does it indicate that when God spoke... there was no one there to hear or observe the creation? The absence and the silence are deafening when placed in the context of Gen 1:1. The first verse tells us that God created the heavens and the earth.

The beginning
The first word declares the same message as the alef and the first verse.

ב - This is a revelation to man.
ר - It is revealed
א - that God spoke and created the heavens and the earth
ש - he spoke, and the heavens and the earth responded
י - what he conceived to do
ת - he finished

Combinations or rightly dividing the word of truth
The word for beginning can be divided many ways making other words.

ב-ראשית : in ב – the beginning ראשית

ב-ראש-י-ת : in ב - the authority of (heads of) ראש - the creator י – (makes it an object) ת

בר(אש)ית : a covenant ברית with man אש at the center

ברא-שית : created ברא an appointment שית

בר-אשי-ת : the son בר – offered total devotion (fire offerings) אשי – (makes it an object) ת

John rightly divides the word
The book of John, which was written in Greek, contains the teaching of John who taught in Hebrew.. John taught the Greeks how to rightly divide the word in Hebrew and how to play childish word games. John 1.1-4 is derived from Ge 1.1 by 'rightly dividing' the Hebrew words in Genesis.

בר : the son. The son is “in the beginning” because בר is in בראשית.

The first three words of Ge 1.1 are בראשית ברא אלהים (don't forget to read right to left)

ברא : This word is generally translated “created” but since God spoke whenever he created, it is proper to translate this as “created by the word” or the “word which created. John says “In the beginning was the Word” because ברא is in בראשית. Notice that son בר is in create ברא, and John identified the Son as the Word which created.

ברא is next to אלהים: the word (which created) ברא was next to Elohim אלהים so John said “and the Word was with God,” (Joh 1:1)

ברא also describes God as the creator, so John said, “and the Word was God.”

Puns of Elohim
אלהים Elohim has a pun pronounced 'l'chaim' meaning life and so John said “In him was life;”.

אלהים Elohim has another pun pronounced 'a lo khoom' which means 'not dark', and so John said “and the life was the light of men.” .

Incidentally, אלהים Elohim has another pun pronounced 'lechem' meaning 'bread' and John later says “For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world.” (Joh 6:33 ).

Dividing Elohim אלהים as אל-הי-ם gives: for אל – him הי - marriage on earth ם. (Re 19.7)

Ath not translated
The word את ath need not go untranslated. The א is the first letter of the alef-bet and the ת tov is the last. את is similar to the Greek alpha and omega. It refers to everything from the beginning to the end. It may be rendered “everything in”. Ge 1.1 could say, “ ...God created everything in the heavens and everything in the earth.” (Col 1:16). But since Jesus is the alpha and omega (Re 21:6) Ge 1.1 could say, “...God created Christ's heavens and Christ's earth.” (Eph 3:9, Re 4:11)

Heavens
ה-שםים – the ה– two heavens שםים. God created two heavens. the third heaven was not created. (2Co 12:2) The phrase “ the heaven and the heaven of heavens” (De 10.14) is technically incorrect. It is the “two heavens השמים and the ו- heaven of שמי two heavens השמים.” There is a third heaven over the two heavens. One may be tempted to say that the third heaven is where God is, however the third heaven is not big enough to contain God. (1Ki 8:27) It can be said that the third heaven is within God, and since it is not created, it is the very substance of God himself. It should not be a surprise to hear Paul say that one was caught up to the third heaven, it is no less plausible to be “in God” than it is to be “in Christ” (Ro 8.1) or that one day all things will be gathered in Christ. (Eph 1.10)

Dividing the word: ה-שם-י-ם – the ה – name שם- of me י – (the word שםים alternately means 'of marriage') ם. The 'name' or reputation of God is in his marriage.

John correctly points out that the word heaven has gematria of 3 and that the letters represent the Father, Son and Holy Ghost in 1 John 5:8.

earth
The word earth ארצ when interpreted by the hieroglyphics means “He is a split word running”. David expresses this as he unpacks the hieroglyphics for himself in “Ps 147:15 He sendeth forth his commandment [upon] earth: his word runneth very swiftly.” He uses two terms “commandment and word”. The commandment is the law which expresses holiness, and the Word is the son which went to the grave, expressing love. This is found in the word ארצ 'earth' even as the commandment and the word run in the earth. In Revelation, Jesus repeatedly says that he (the Word) comes quickly. (Re 3.11, Re 22.7, Re 22.12, Re 22.20)

John correctly points out that the word earth has gematria of three and that the letters represent the water, word and blood.

The silent alef explodes into the first word which unpacks into the first verse. The first verse later unpacks into the first chapter, which unpacks into six divisions of the rest of the Bible. The methods used to discern the meaning of the Bible are the same that Thomas taught us.

We can see that the nature of Thomas is different from that of the Bible. The Bible is intricately interwoven with itself down to the detail of the 'jot and tittle'. Thomas speaks about it in the same way I do. I cannot produce a text with the depth of meaning that springs forth from scripture, and Thomas couldn't either. This is why I say that Thomas teaches us about the scripture, but is not scripture.

[goatguy-too]

The most complex riddle I have been able to solve yet comes from Revelation 17.

 

Re 17:7 ¶ And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Re 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Re 17:9 And here [is] the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.

Re 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Re 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

Since this will take some effort to document well, I will have to do it a piece at a time. So I will give clues for the next step so that those who wish to attempt to solve it may apply themselves to the task.

 

Clue 1: Where else in scripture do you find seven and ten?

 

Feel free to share your efforts here, if you wish.

[goatguy-too]

First we have to identify whre the seven and the ten come from.

Ge 4:17 And Cain knew his wife; and she conceived, and bare Enoch: and he builded a city, and called the name of the city, after the name of his son, Enoch.
Ge 4:18 And unto Enoch was born Irad: and Irad begat Mehujael: and Mehujael begat Methusael: and Methusael begat Lamech.
Ge 4:19 ¶ And Lamech took unto him two wives: the name of the one [was] Adah, and the name of the other Zillah.
Ge 4:20 And Adah bare Jabal: he was the father of such as dwell in tents, and [of such as have] cattle.
Ge 4:21 And his brother’s name [was] Jubal: he was the father of all such as handle the harp and organ.
Ge 4:22 And Zillah, she also bare Tubalcain, an instructer of every artificer in brass and iron: and the sister of Tubalcain [was] Naamah.

1. Cain
2. Enoch
3. Irad
4. Mehujael
5. Methusael
6. Lamech
7. Jabal - Jubal and (8) Tubalcain

 

Ge 5:3 And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat [a son] in his own likeness, after his image; and called his name Seth:
Ge 5:4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.
Ge 5:6 ¶ And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:
Ge 5:7 And Seth lived after he begat Enos eight hundred and seven years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:8 And all the days of Seth were nine hundred and twelve years: and he died.
Ge 5:9 And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan:
Ge 5:10 And Enos lived after he begat Cainan eight hundred and fifteen years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:11 And all the days of Enos were nine hundred and five years: and he died.
Ge 5:12 And Cainan lived seventy years, and begat Mahalaleel:
Ge 5:13 And Cainan lived after he begat Mahalaleel eight hundred and forty years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:14 And all the days of Cainan were nine hundred and ten years: and he died.
Ge 5:15 And Mahalaleel lived sixty and five years, and begat Jared:
Ge 5:16 And Mahalaleel lived after he begat Jared eight hundred and thirty years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:17 And all the days of Mahalaleel were eight hundred ninety and five years: and he died.
Ge 5:18 And Jared lived an hundred sixty and two years, and he begat Enoch:
Ge 5:19 And Jared lived after he begat Enoch eight hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:20 And all the days of Jared were nine hundred sixty and two years: and he died.
Ge 5:21 ¶ And Enoch lived sixty and five years, and begat Methuselah:
Ge 5:22 And Enoch walked with God after he begat Methuselah three hundred years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:23 And all the days of Enoch were three hundred sixty and five years:
Ge 5:24 And Enoch walked with God: and he [was] not; for God took him.
Ge 5:25 ¶ And Methuselah lived an hundred eighty and seven years, and begat Lamech:
Ge 5:26 And Methuselah lived after he begat Lamech seven hundred eighty and two years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
Ge 5:28 ¶ And Lamech lived an hundred eighty and two years, and begat a son:
Ge 5:29 And he called his name Noah, saying, This [same] shall comfort us concerning our work and toil of our hands, because of the ground which the LORD hath cursed.
Ge 5:30 And Lamech lived after he begat Noah five hundred ninety and five years, and begat sons and daughters:
Ge 5:31 And all the days of Lamech were seven hundred seventy and seven years: and he died.

1. Adam
2. Seth
3. Enos
4. Cainan
5. Mahalaleel
6. Jared
7. Enoch
8. Methuselah
9. Lamech
10. Noah

Now we can start to solve the riddle of verse 10.

Re 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

 

Why are they (the 18 sons) called kings? Which of the sons of Cain are fallen? Which is? and Which is not yet come?

[goatguy-too]

King
'King' refers to one who rules over the earth or the flesh. Christians are made to be kings and priests because they are supposed to rule over their own flesh, and intercede on behalf of others.

Re 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him [be] glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

 

In the riddle, all of these are men who ruled over the flesh. This does not speak of the historical men. It sets the stage for the next layer of discovery. How do they represent someone who had ruled over the flesh? Since all men have sinned (Ro 3:23) except for Christ,it is expected all of them to represent Christ in some way.

In the genealogy of Genesis 5, the word 'lived is used 17 times. It is not used at all in the genealogy of Cain. If someone did not 'live' they must have 'died'. The seven generations of Cain were dead, while the ten generations of Adam were alive. Seven represents 'completion' or 'fulness':

Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

and ten represent the dual-natured man. So the fullness died so that Christ in the flesh would live.

Five are fallen

Re 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Of the seven generations of Cain five are fallen. The word lived is not used for any of them, so we start with a list of seven that appear to be fallen. Two of them are not. Two names show up on both lists:
Enoch and Lamech. So although we cannot say they live from Cain's list, they are said to live in Adam's list.

 

One is and one will come
Enoch was taken to be with God without dying. (Ge 5:24) Enoch "is", which leaves Lamech to be the one who "comes". Lamech means "power" In the end, Christ comes in power to claim his own.

The riddle of verse 10 has been solved, but there is more to come. The beast must be discovered. As we examine the seven aspects of Christ represented Cain's genealogy, or the ten aspects of Christ represented in Adam's genealogy, the beast will be revealed.

Edited February 2, 2014 by goatguy

[deci belle]

Seven represents 'completion' or 'fulness':

As an aside, in taoist symbology, this number represents the period of an entire cycle.

 

 

It can be said that the third heaven is within God, and since it is not created, it is the very substance of God himself.

Caught up in this indeed.

 

 

 

 

ed note: added "of"

Edited February 3, 2014 by deci belle

[thelerner]

King

'King' refers to one who rules over the earth or the flesh. Christians are made to be kings and priests because they are supposed to rule over their own flesh, and intercede on behalf of others.

Don't think I follow this .. particular leap of logic.

 

I don't agree with everything you've said prior, but I appreciate the scholarship of it.

[deci belle]

What logic is there to it other than those whose rulership over their own flesh makes them kings and priests over all flesh. Since they have dominion over the influence of worldly concerns, it is no leap of logic then that this is the ability to intercede on the behalf of others who do not have the power of kings and priests.

 

When one is no longer under the rule of the ways of the world, how can another influence one's own objectivity free and above the influence of the totality of the created?

 

This being made into kings and priests is the result of transcendence of temporal concerns while in the midst of temporal concerns. Such people are fit to be kings and priests on behalf of those who are not.

 

The work of goatguy is not just a small bit beyond mere scholarship. This is first-rate comprehension and intuitive understanding. One actually has the opportunity by his efforts to enter into this literal tradition's ancient burden of mystery by his deep grasp of the revelations imbedded in the words and the symbols they are made of.

 

Like other teaching traditions, the import of the message is beyond a logical conclusion whereby one's own inherent wisdom can by quickened, developed, exercised and brought to the fore.

 

This is how people become kings and priests in the first place.

 

 

 

 

 

ed note: change "the" to "this" in 4th paragraph

Edited February 3, 2014 by deci belle

[goatguy-too]

Don't think I follow this .. particular leap of logic.

 

I don't agree with everything you've said prior, but I appreciate the scholarship of it.

 

Thanks for the note. I apologize. Sometimes I don't know when to go into more detail in explanation. It's like a giant crossword puzzle. In explaining it, I just say "15 across is this", without getting into details since it derails the mainpoint. And sometimes I forget that people don't already know it, and I assume they are following along.

 

There are four "voices" of God: prophet, priest king and judge. Eveything said in revelation comes through one or more of these voices; usually through all four at the same time giving scripture a four-fold meaning.

 

When there are two things, they are two aspects of one thing. One is a heavenly (H) or spiritual aspect, the other is an earthly (E) or physical aspect. The number 4 is two two's. So there is H-H, H-E, E-H, and E-E. The four voices map into this pattern.

 

The Priest speaks of heavenly things in a heavenly (hidden) language H-H. The king speaks of earthly things in a literal language. E-E. The Prophet and judge are the mixtures. The judge speaks of God's view or opinion on earthly matters, and the prophet speaks of the earthly life of Christ in a hidden language.

 

The prophets must die. It is a symbold of the prophecy being fulfilled. The judge must die, because all judgements cease. We are told that we are kings and priests. We must rule over our flesh (live in the spirit) and intercede for other.

 

The only one who actualy did this was Jesus. And so in this riddle, where all the men are said to be kings, they all refer to Christ. (Besides the point that everything works to reveal Christ). When I get a chance to make another good post, I will start to flush out how each one prefigures him.

 

The idea of being a king may be a bit different. Normally we think of kings ruling over others. I think the term is used in the sensus plenior to speak of ruling our own flesh; the earthly part of us. There is nothing in the teaching of Christ which would tempt the flesh or elevate the ego to lord things over others. I think it is a great disappointment to Christ that so few Christinas get this point. Christ says that the greatest one in the kingdom is the one who serves all. One is unable to do that if his ego is desiring to rule over others. The self must be ruled.

 

The point of intercession is taken to the greatest actualization when one can give himself for an enemy, which can only be done when the self is undercontrol.

 

Ro 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

 

The one who does not fear death because he lives in the spirit already, can lay down his life on behalf of one who hates him in order to give the other a chance to reach the same place.

 

---added

 

Side note: In the symbol of the cross, the upper part represents priest (in the heavens), the lower represents king (on earth), and the two horizontal arms are the mixtures; judge and prophet, which are suspended between heaven and earth.

 

--added more... 5am , I am note awake yet.

 

Concerning the king: Jesus was literally the king of Israel through his genealogy. But his "kingdom was not of this earth". His is a spiritual kingdom. The New Jerusalem is the "new teaching of peace" which he ushered in at the sermon on the mount. So if the king of kings did not lord it over others, how much more so should we not seek to rule but to serve? (There's that Jewish val chomer argument again.)

 

--- added

 

On agreement:

 

The nice thing about a hermeneutic that is self-correcting is that it removes opinions. I may have things not quite right, but rather than have a battle over opinions, a collaborative effort is made to "solve the crossword". For instance, when someone claims that leaven represents sin, there is no need for an arguement, but for a question: Since Jesus said the kingdom of heaven is like leaven, how is the kingdom like sin? Hmm.. so collaboratively, we search for the answer to the riddle. We eventually decide that "teaching" works in every case where leaven is used, and we erase the "sin" that someone had pencilled in and write "teaching" until we come to an understanding of all truth. In the set of rules laid out at the beginning of the thread, I cannot claim to "know" until the whole riddle is solved. So everything I present should be validated by others using the same rule set.

Edited February 4, 2014 by goatguy

[goatguy-too]

Deci, You are a great encourager, though I am pretty sure we have fundamental differences in our understanding. I am not sure that we have an "inherent wisdom" but more of a universal ignorance ;-)

Let's examine it scientifically. http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx

 

There are more than 2,000,000,000 Christians in the world today. I have found no evidence that these riddles have been solved by anyone since the time of Christ when the apostles knew how. Using just today's Christian population that would give me an IQ of 198. Oh... just to solve a single riddle. Since I am able to read the double entendre of most of it, that would give me an impossible IQ. It is not my inherent wisdom.

 

It is the role of the Holy Spirit to give wisdom (the ability to solve the riddle). We can study, but it is He who brings it to remembrance and correlates it for us in whispers. I know my role in the process, and though the result is verifiable, the process is more akin to revelation. I stuff the scripture in my head, like so many others have done, but He makes it make sense. I would be remiss to not give credit where it is due.

 

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all [men] liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.

 

Others incorrectly use that verse to suggest that a burning bosom is a sign of having received wisdom. Judge for yourself if the propositional truths shared through this method of interpretation are not verifiable and reproducible. They do not require an oracle, but can be discerned by children (often more easily than by adults). Whatever errors there are, are mine. And they will be flushed out and corrected as others learn to apply the hermeneutic.

Edited February 4, 2014 by goatguy

[deci belle]

I will say this much, goatguy~ just because it is your wisdom that enables your endeavor in this vein doesn't exclude the impersonal.

 

It is the aspect of the impersonal that truly inspires this effort.

 

I speak from the perspective of the impersonal itself.

 

The particulars are of no interest to me.

 

This is a breeze of utmost familiarity.

 

How does one go one go on to prove the note of antiquity for the benefit of those who do not hear?

 

I hear. The impersonal has no grounding in culture. It is the source of culture.

 

As for interpretation~ I do not have any part of it.

 

Who would interpret the breeze? Knowledge is immediate. I am beyond doubt.

 

I encourage your effort because it is true. Its product is beyond craft. This is inspired, goatguy.❤

[goatguy-too]

...

 

It is excellent work, I concur.

 

I shall have to study it in more detail later, but thank you very much goat guy.

 

Multiple word meanings, ie puns are abundant in mystical writing.

 

I suppose it is an attempt to condense material into a shorter and more effective form.

 

Also material that is difficult to render in language.

 

I would like to contribute more, and will if I have time.

 

But would you be able to clarify who or what is meant by the term "The Most Ancient of Days?"

 

....

Thanks.

 

Yes the Ancient of Days: The word Ancient עתיק means ancient, durable, splendid. When broken down into the metaphor of the letters:

 

Season of time, heap of ruins עת from the first thought of creation י to the new beginning ק through the resurrection.

One might say this is an equivalent to the All in All, the beginning and the end.

 

The word for day is yom יום. It's metaphor is something like "a disinct picture of the thought of creation completed in the flesh by the Son."  In fact, each day of creation is a distinct picture of Christ. And each day is like a table of contents entry pointing to a portion of scripture, or a period of literal history.

It is like the directory to a dispensational view of history, except, the periods are not periods where God dealt differently with man, as in dispensationalism, but that each section is a distinct picture of Christ hidden in riddle.

 

Together the Ancient of Days is the God of all creation in time. He is the constant figure in all of the pictures and riddles from the beginning to the end. He is the sublime; the splendid.

 

Consider the ancient Jewish riddle: Why does the scripture start with the second letter of the alphabet, rather than the first. Implicit in the riddle is the belief that the alphabet itself preexisted creation (since words were used to create) and therefor are part of the divine revelation.

 

The first letter, aleph א has a metaphor: God spoke and created the heavens and the earth.  It is a silent letter. In the case of Genesis 1:1 It is there but it is invisible also.  The meaning is that when God spoke and created the heavens and the earth, there was no one there to see or hear it.

 

This sounds stretched a bit.. I know. But look at he next part.

The first two letters are AB - father. But no man has seen the father from the beginning.

Joh 6:46 Not that any man hath seen the Father, save he which is of God, he hath seen the Father.

 

The second two letters are BR (bar) - son.  We first see the son, and it is the son who makes the father known, because when we see the son we ask, why is there not an aleph.

 

So Anything we see of God is through the son who makes the Father known through the Son's word, works life,and Spirit.

 

Da 7:9  I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment was white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne was like the fiery flame, and his wheels as burning fire.

Da 7:13  I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Da 7:22  Until the Ancient of days came, and judgment was given to the saints of the most High; and the time came that the saints

 

It would appear that the Ancient of Days was not the son since the Son of Man approached the Ancient of Days.  But even while the Son of Man was incarnate on earth within time, the Son of God was still in timeless eternity. Don't ask me to explain that one  lol.

 

But we see evidence of it when David says :

Mr 12:36 For David himself said by the Holy Ghost, The LORD said to my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, till I make thine enemies thy footstool.

 

All of the descriptions for the Ancient of Days apply to the Son of God.

[goatguy-too]

This is really great stuff.    

 

For too many years, I read the OT and NT with a zeal... and everyone in-between, for better or worse (Augustine, Luther, Calvin, John Bunyan, Wesley, Whitefield, Watchman Nee, Francis Schaeffer, John MacArthur, C.S. Lewis, Charles Colson...   the reformed theologians captivated me (Louis Berkhof, B.B. Warfield, Charles Spurgeon, A.W. Pink)...

 

But in the end, what opened my eyes the most were those in the "Jews for Jesus" movement.  I read everything I could from them and realized much of what your sharing here.  I had never heard of 'sensus plenior' till this thread but that was what really grabbed me... and the lack of understanding this by the masses eventually lead me to walk away from it all.

Yeah, it is difficult to sit through Greek rhetorical sermons spouting Greek philosophy using Greek rhetorical invention. If I open my mouth I am generally in trouble.  But I don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. I can't deny what I see.

 

Remember, we should not expect more from the Gentile church. They sent message to Jerusalem that they wanted to be Christian but not Jewish.  So they were given simple instruction. Paul limited his teaching of them to "Christ and him crucified".   The Gentile church got Christianity-lite. They threw out the Jews and removed Hebrew stuff from the church by 400 AD.  Augustine was so bold as to say that he Septuagint (the Greek translation of the OT) was more reliable than the original Hebrew text.

 

Because of this, they did not see that the amar ( the 'said' in "God said Let there be light") also means lamb. When God created light he did it by the lamb.   The Greeks don't realize that light does not come from the sun, but that the lights in the firmament were formed FROM light. They still wonder how there could be days and nights with no sun, but the light of God pulsed like a heartbeat, and the light coagulated into the mass of the suns and stars.

 

The methods of riddle which have been demonstrated in the GOT, when applied to scripture reveal much more about God than the Greek church (and her protestant daughters) can even imagine.

 

"We're all in this together" -- Red Green

[goatguy-too]

 

The nature of the riddle (double entendre) is the confusion of cause and effect.. The reader misinterprets it. In order to find the secrets hidden in the scripture one must ask God (Mt 7:7, Lu 11:9) which God answers by opening the eyes to understanding (Jas 1:5). The act of acknowledging God as God and asking him for wisdom is the position of one who has life from God. So the one who finds the hidden wisdom has found it because of his life-giving relationship with God.

 

If one misreads it and believes that by the act of searching the scriptures he will find life, he is motivated to read God's word. (Joh 5:39) But he will not find the interpretation without asking God for it. It is the relationship with God which gives life, not the act of looking for or finding hidden interpretations.

 

So in the end, not all people who have life will find the hidden interpretations, but all people who find the hidden interpretations already have life.

 

The same confusion applies to the interpreation of faith vs. works. It is intentional on God's part that there should be confusion. Those who misunderstand that works produces salvation will do good works and attempt to avoid bad works. This makes the world a better place. Those who correctly understand that all good works that we do are produced by God in us, still do good works.  The double entendre is intentional.

 

 

I promised I would show how the GOT was a lesson in reading the Bible.

 

Language is ambiguous. When I go to the store I might pick up tooth paste for whiter teeth and shampoo for greasy hair.  I don't know why anyone wants greasy hair

 

Jesus said that thorns represents "cares of the world" which can choke out his word.  Mr 4:19

 

We can see the ambiguity reversed in meaning in the sensus plenior of Ge 22:13.

 

In a shadow of the cross, Abraham is about to offer his only son as a sacrifice. The ram takes Issac's place.  The ram is caught in the thicket (thorns).  As a shadow of Christ, he cares for the world.   His love for the world constrains him to face the cross.

 

Hear the words of God to Cain before he kills Abel:

If you do right, won't you be lifted up.   This is an encouragement that his right choices will cheer him.

 

But now hear it as Jesus meditates on the Word of God which has sent him to the cross:

If you do right, won't you be lifted up?

His right choice will kill him on the cross.

 

Thomas is showing us how to read the sensus plenior (the mystery prophecy of Christ) by being open to the double entendre caused by the ambiguity of language.

Edited April 4, 2017 by goatguy-too

[goatguy-too]

This has just a small riddle, most of it is straight forward concerning the process of 'enlightenment'

 

When you seek you will find. The second usage of the word 'find' invokes the phonetic pun and riddle. 'Find' is מצא matsa, and it sounds like מצה matseh which is unleavened bread. Unleavened bread is bread that has no leaven or teaching. Bread is the body... Jesus said "This is my body", and unleavened bread is one owho has put away old teaching and is ready for new teaching.  When you have found the truth, you put away the old things you thought you knew and begin again.

 

When you find, you are confronted with your sin and sin nature which makes you 'troubled'. The second usage of troubled invokes the second meaning of the word troubled חמר which is wine and which represents grace. One becomes astonished at the grace which covers his sin.

 

The word for rule משל is also the word for 'to speak in a proverb'. When one is truly astonished he will speak in a proverb (the language of the wisdom of God) of "the all"which is God.  We do not rule over God, we speak his wisdom.

 

 

One of the hints for interpretation that Thomas is recording is that when something is repeated twice, it has two meanings

 

 

Thomas taught is to use puns in interpretation. Matthew uses this.

 

Mt 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Mt 1:22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

Mt 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

 

Has anyone noticed that Jesus (Yeshua) is not Emmanuel?   Yeshua means God's salvation and Emmanuel means God with us. They don't even mean the same thing!! 

 

But Ya-shuach (a pun) means God humbled, speaking of his incarnation when God became a man and dwelt among us.

 

Later Matthew says that Jesus was born in Nazareth to fulfill the prophecy he would be called a Nazarene, but the experts can't find this prophecy.

Matthew just taught us to use puns. The law of the Nazarite IS the prophecy, hidden in sensus plenior using pun, that he would be called a Nazarene.

 

The Nazarite takes a vow to not drink wine or strong drink. These represent grace and law. Jesus did not partake of grace or law because he is the author of grace and law.

The Nazarite does not cut his hair, and it is called his righteousness. Yet in Paul says that nature tells us that long hair on a man is a shame. Christ, though righteous in God's eyes, bore our shame on the cross.

The Nazarite does not touch a dead body, so Jesus was buried in an unused tomb.

If a Nazarite touches a dead body, he is set free from his oath without penalty. Jesus's own dead body set him free from his Nazarite vow that he took at the last supper.

 

By using pun, we solve the mystery of the missing prophecy.  Thank you Thomas.

[goatguy-too]

They would also be correct and on the same basis of pun. Branch is netzer.

 

Isa 11:1 ¶ And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots:

 

In the riddles of sensus plenior there are often many ways to confirm the riddle.  There is one story told throughout: that of the cross. The sensus plenior is very repetitive. 

 

--added--

Jerome used Is 11:1.   He had a memory of punning in sensus plenior.

 

--Added--

Matthew uses the plural 'prophets' when speaking of the prophecy. He uses one instance to fulfill several prophecies.

 

Referring to 'branch' might arguably be considered the methods of Drash or Remez.  Pointing to the Nazarite is Sod.

Edited April 4, 2017 by goatguy-too

[goatguy-too]

 

The man old in days is the Ancient of days.

 

The small child is Jesus who was the “smallest seed” or the “least of men” because he served them all.

 

Genesis 1 is a table of contents to the rest of the Bible, which is split into six portions representing six days.  The man (Christ) obtained his bride (the church) on day six covered by the New Testament. The conversation takes place on the seventh day.

 

The “place of life” takes a bit of explaining. Before the creation there was nothing but God. There was no place, since there is nothing bigger than God to contain him. When he created, he opened a void within himself in which to place all of the heavens and the earth. (The earth was void…)  This is where it gets fun.  In heaven שמים  ש is the Spirit, מ is the Father, and ם is the Son.  See the yud י in there? It’s not required to make the word heaven but it represents the first speck of the void created. It contains everything that was made. We are made of tiny voids within God. We are made of nothing. 

 

 

This is the way it works. The smallest particle that exists, maybe something like a Plank particle is a void in the “substance” of God. The voids are gathered together into larger stable clusters. So imagine a film negative in 3-d. Everything you think is black is white. In the universe what you think is a void is what is the substance of God (He’s what’s left when you remove everything else). And what you think is solid are really voids within him.

 

All of the properties of physics are redefined as properties of the geometry surrounding the voids. When the geometry creates tension is a charged particle, when the geometry creates compression, it is the opposite charge. The two will attract in order to reduce stresses in the surrounding substance.  Gravity is really a push away from the substance in lower energy levels which tends to cluster the voids as though they were attracted to each other. All the properties of physics are explained by the geometry of the substance, and a unified field theory is derived from the analysis. The 'place of life'is the existence within the void... the place within himself that God made room for us...actually 'many rooms'.

 

When the Son became incarnate, his existence moved from being the substance to being the voids that made up his body. 

 

So what could God-the-Father learn from God-the-Son?  The stuff that the Son learned. Heb 5:8 Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

 

After having the conversation, the Son remains in the flesh (“he lives”) “married to the flesh” so to speak.

The Son will be pre-eminent among the many, who were the expressions of God before creation, and they will all be one again. (The Son was separated on the cross).

 

As odd as it sounds when stated this way, it is what most Christians believe. There is a physical resurrection where we live with Christ physically forever.

 

Thomas is now using many metaphors and combining them in one riddle. He has confidence in the rule that all things speak of Christ.

 

One of the most complex riddles I have run across in the Bible is in Rev 17:10,11.

 

Re 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, [and] the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

Re 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

 

One must identify:

1. There are seven generations in the genealogy of Cain and ten in that of Seth

2. The word 'lived' is not used in that of Cain as it is in that of Seth.

3. Each of the men in both lists are types of Christ

4. Two names appear in both genealogies: Enoch and Lamech

5. Enoch was taken to be with God: He is

6. Lamech means 'power': He is Christ coming in power. He is to come.

7. After removing Enoch and Lamech, there are five generations that did not live: they were.

8. When there are two things, they are one thing. Jubal and Jabal are the 7th generation (names mean water-water)**

9. Tubal-cain is also the eighth but one of the seven.

10. There is only one name in the list that has a meaning of being an animal (Irad - the unbridled donkey)

11. The donkey is always a prophet

12. The bridle means his preaching is controlled.

13. The unbridled donkey is the Son speaking as a prophet.

14. Cain means spear representing he sins of the church

 

With those hints, can you solve the riddle of Rev 17:10,11? If you can discern the beast, you will know more than nearly all the Christians since the time of John; more than all the mystics and desert monks.

 

This might be considered a crazy exercise had Thomas not shown us his joining of many riddles into one.

Edited April 4, 2017 by goatguy-too

[goatguy-too]

Saying 3 (3) Jesus said, "If those who lead you say to you, 'See, the kingdom is in the sky,' then the birds of the sky will precede you. If they say to you, 'It is in the sea,' then the fish will precede you. Rather, the kingdom is inside of you, and it is outside of you. When you come to know yourselves, then you will become known, and you will realize that it is you who are the sons of the living father. But if you will not know yourselves, you dwell in poverty and it is you who are that poverty.

As seen before, the Kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which we saw was 'teaching'. The Kingdom of heaven is teaching. It starts small and spreads. 'Jerusalem' means 'teaching of peace' and the New Jerusalem, which is equated with the Kingdom of heaven, is 'the new teaching of peace'.

When Jesus started teaching with the sermon on the mount, he said, "You have heard it said, .... but I say...". He introduced the new teaching of peace.

Peter said, "You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God", and Jesus said that no man had taught him that but that the Father had shown it to him. He continued saying that he would give him the keys to the kingdom... the keys to teaching... and he started to show him the places in the scriptures that said he must die and be raised from the dead.

The pictures of the cross in the Old Testament are the keys to the kingdom of heaven or the keys to the new teaching of peace.

So where is the kingdom? It is within you if you understand and live the new teaching of peace. If you do not have the new teaching of peace, you are in great desolation and poverty.

 

In this saying, Thomas is explaining the doctrine which summarizes many teachings. We may continue to expound using the metaphor of many other teachings:

 

The name for God, Elohim, means 'God separated from his people because they do not understand'. The remedy is the kingdom of Heaven, which is teaching.

 

The Kingdom of heaven is like leaven... leaven is teaching.

 

Jerusalem means the teaching of peace. The New Jerusalem is equated with the kingdom, and means the New teaching of peace.

 

Jesus taught, "you have heard it said.. but I say...." as he ushered in the New Teaching of Peace.

 

He told his disciple "Go unto all nations teaching..."

 

He called Israel as his people saying "that you may know, and believe and understand, that I am He"

 

His teachers were taught to teach men who could teach others.

 

The marriage feast of the Lamb is a metaphor for the ushering in of the kingdom.  The Hebrew words mean:

marriage = doctrine, teaching

eating = a metaphor for learning

lamb = same word as the word which created Light, the creator.

 

The marriage feast of the lamb is the explosion of teaching that happened at the cross when the mystery which was hidden from the beginning was finally revealed and made known.

 

The teaching is simple: God alone is God. Stop being an animal and putting yourself first, but Love by putting others first.

The Father, who no man has seen, has been made known through the words, works and life of the son.

 

The marriage feast of the Lamb is NOW!

Edited April 23, 2017 by goatguy-too