Anarchy - A Way of Living

[Marblehead]

It's the games people play in order to fill their life and make it appear that they really have one. Outside of the game there is no life.

 

Well, yeah, Tiger had a life outside the game but that didn't work out so well.

[Stosh]

It's the games people play in order to fill their life and make it appear that they really have one. Outside of the game there is no life.

 

Well, yeah, Tiger had a life outside the game but that didn't work out so well.

That sounds quite true and possibly a bit cynical there Mh, is it important to play those games? or is there an alternative way.

[Marblehead]

That sounds quite true

My observation.

 

and possibly a bit cynical there Mh,

I'm glad you noticed.

 

is it important to play those games? or is there an alternative way.

Excellent question. Of course, I can't answer it.

 

But to consider, possibly the games are important for lack of real life experiences?

[Stosh]

My observation.

 

I'm glad you noticed.

 

Excellent question. Of course, I can't answer it.

 

But to consider, possibly the games are important for lack of real life experiences?

Well folks who play games ,that is to say ummm spend time with passtimes like gossip or bullying often find that there are willing participants to the same games , strengthening social ties etc ,, this suggests to me that such is the "real life" of some ,, I dont know what a 'fake' life would be in comparison.

An existance of no experiences? a life of sincerity ? an unsociable duration on planet?

[Marblehead]

Back in the Hippie days there was the label "Plastic People". People pretending to be something they were not. And, of course, there is the John Lennon song "Mind Games".

 

And yes, there are those who busy themselves with talking about how other people are living their life but yet they have no life outside of this occupation.

 

My life is actually pretty boring now-a-days but that is how I want it and like it. No party times at the local bars trying to pick up a lady for the evening. I just fall asleep watching TV.

[Stosh]

Oh, so youre coming at this thing from the angle that the games people are playing arent in alignment with their true selves

,, but if what they physically DO is objectively true , and that to you is the 'real' world, then their true selves ( known only subjectively) is the fake thing.

For instance , If I truly think I am Napoleon , it is subjectively true, but false objectively, then the "real" me is Napoleon,, and Stosh is fake. If I pretend outwardly to be Napoleon , and know that not to be true, then Napoleon is fake and Stosh is 'real' objectively speaking. So it is my subjective opinion , which determines whether I really am Stosh, or Napoleon ,objectively speaking. Oh!.

[Marblehead]

I think you've got it but then I have been known to be wrong.

 

Yes, it's the same old objective vs subjective arguement again. Which is the realist? A matter of opinion for most.

[Stosh]

Well it shouldn't be ,since its so obvious that the feelings people have, affects what they physically do.

And vice versa, that which they are subjected to affects how they feel.

If one of those was fake, how could they interact? The one supports the validity of the other. Whether one realizes it or not the arguement often revolves around wwhich world should be taken more seriously. To undermine the validity of the material is to suggest that there is a great deal of power in the subjective stance. To undermine the subjective stance is to deny responsibility for ones circumstance.

Edited November 15, 2013 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Good arguement Stosh.

 

Above you spoke to to the micro, to the individual. I will agree that for the individual the subjective is more important (even though I think that it should not be so).

 

At the macro level I would not agree. In my mind the objective is much more important.

 

So again we are viewing two linked concepts from different perspectives.

[Stosh]

^{Hmm I need to both consider that longer and get to work . Ill get back to it.}

[Aaron]

Most people aren't interested in living in an anarchistic society, because they fail to understand that peace is not something that must be enforced, but rather when you try to enforce peace it causes disharmony.

 

I saw this on youtube and thought it was a great example of how it's beneficial to let things follow their natural course...

 

 

Aaron

[Marblehead]

Yes, I can see that being efficient in smaller towns anywhere in the world but it might be rather difficult or even impossible in larger towns and cities.

[zerostao]

[Stosh]

Good arguement Stosh. Above you spoke to to the micro, to the individual. I will agree that for the individual the subjective is more important (even though I think that it should not be so). At the macro level I would not agree. In my mind the objective is much more important. So again we are viewing two linked concepts from different perspectives.

I'm gonna say , you're right about the things being linked, life liberty and the pursuit of happiness for the individual weighs rather heavily for me, yet it is a societally agreed upon broader plan that is intended to bring it about so that one is not transgressing on the other.

[Marblehead]

Sure, life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Ain't nothing wrong with that. It should be important to anyone who earns an honest income. But again, if I claim these goals then I must acknowledge that they are goals of each and every one of us. So I cannot hold anyone else back if I expect to be not held back.

[Stosh]

Ahh that would be nice if it was possible. But I don't think it is in the absolute sense. The world and its resources are finite. If I eat a steak you cannot eat the same steak. If I drive through an intersection , you at the same time cannot. Rules are made so we can each get a steak or drive through an intersection but our very existance interferes with each other. Sorry about that

[zerostao]

mh, while i think that i understand what you are saying here;

" It should be important to anyone who earns an honest income."

it is still kinda abstract, and could lead to a slippery slope.

a banker probably believes that he is earning an honest income, and many would agree,

and many would not agree. perhaps some bankers do earn an honest income and other bankers do not.

almost sounds like it could be a moral judgement in certain contexts.

plus there are those who are not earning any income that are still 'honest', right?

and couldnt life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness be important to those as well?

[Aaron]

Yes, I can see that being efficient in smaller towns anywhere in the world but it might be rather difficult or even impossible in larger towns and cities.

 

Hamburg may try it out. That'll give us a good idea of how it'll work in cities.

[Marblehead]

Rules are made so we can each get a steak ...

But there are still so many who are lucky if they get a can of beans. Apparently the rules aren't working. And there are still accidents at intersections.

[Marblehead]

mh, while i think that i understand what you are saying here;

" It should be important to anyone who earns an honest income."

it is still kinda abstract, and could lead to a slippery slope.

a banker probably believes that he is earning an honest income, and many would agree,

and many would not agree. perhaps some bankers do earn an honest income and other bankers do not.

almost sounds like it could be a moral judgement in certain contexts.

plus there are those who are not earning any income that are still 'honest', right?

and couldnt life, liberty, and pursuit of happiness be important to those as well?

It was very difficult for me to add that phrase to my statement that you quoted above. I really didn't want to but something pushed me to include it.

 

But I will stand by it without excluding other conditions, some of which you mentioned above.

 

You mentioned bankers. This brought to mind our government's current policy of economic stimulus. This policy is dishonest. It is designed to allow the rich to become richer and causes the poor to become poorer. The data over the past few years supports this "truth". The idea was to allow the rich to become richer so that they would "trickle down" their excess to those in need of honest employment. This has never worked and I suggest that it will never work because of the "greed" factor.

 

The pursuit of happiness does not justify denying others their happiness. That would not be Anarchy.

[Marblehead]

Hamburg may try it out. That'll give us a good idea of how it'll work in cities.

Yes, they mentioned that in the video. In some parts of Hamburg I could see it working but it would be a real trick in the commercial district. We'll see.

[zerostao]

" how is time art?"

on another thread, cat posted this;

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32406-building-the-foundation-and-inner-alchemy/page-11

"Life is art, a taoist lives life with life skill."

and while it is being said differently and there is a difference, it is a similar idea.

we are all artists and time is the canvas. transform the canvas into art

[silent thunder]

So this came across my path and I immediately thought of my favorite digital anarchist Marblehead...

digital in that's the only way I've experienced him at any rate...

 

 

I've never heard that quote before and it hit me pretty squarely in that anarchy is perhaps the most honest expression of taoist political potential.

 

Life naturally flows and settles into balance without direction or interference.

Anarchy as wu wei.

 

 

[Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan]

God, the state, and society are expressed only through the individuals who insist upon these three things. Without the incessant demand for them, they dont have expression.

Anarchy is truth, freedom, mutual unity (or mutiny), family, and self defense.

The 5 most valuable principals.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Vanir Thunder Dojo Tan

[GrandmasterP]

Black Flag UK Anarchist Magazine archive here....

https://libcom.org/library/black-flag

 

I remember back when it was a weekly newspaper.