Turning vegetarian - need advice

[Rara]

I am 5' 10 1/2" and weigh between 150 and 156#

Very strong so I'm told

I stretch and play tai chi chuan , sword and stick forms most every day

See, I'm 5'10" 147 and do a lot of hill walking with back pack and wing chun. Despite a diet with much more starch, and formerly meat 3x a day, I'm still slightly smaller (and weak imo)

[i am]

Different people will be different. There are Olympic athletes who are vegetarian. Even body builders.

 

Gorillas are vegetarian.

 

Shaolin monks are vegetarian.

 

But...that doesn't necessarily mean it will agree with you.

 

I think you more or less have what you need from people here (though it's an interesting discussion so there's no need to end it). Talk with vegetarians who make it work and give it an honest try. If it doesn't start working for you...maybe go back to meat.

 

I just know way too many vegetarians who are fit, active people to believe that anyone would just start wasting away without meat.

[este]

If you can watch Richard Schulze's Natural Healing Crusades videos on Youtube. First part, at least. The video quality is low, but the information is great.

Actually that's an understatement. The guy comes from a German background and lots of meat eating, but cured himself from heart diseases - by going vegan. One of the reasons I like him, is because of the way he talks. He has a great sense of humor, he's almost a stand up comedian!

If you haven't heard from him, you're in for treat.

Edited January 23, 2014 by este

[idiot_stimpy]

Its amazing going months without meat, then consuming it and the next few days having a craving for meat while in the preceding months having no craving.

[eye_of_the_storm]

That was before he became Hitler. He used to eat sausages, drink, smoke, paint, and behave as a human. Once he decided he's superhuman, he quit eating meat, drinking, smoking, painting, and started a whole bunch of campaigns against some of these (e.g., ordering production of science-for-hire that would "scientifically prove" whatever he no longer liked to be "objectively" harmful. The whores obliged, obviously.)

 

How about Charles Manson, a vegan? Does he strike you as particularly moral and peaceful? I could give you a long list of vegetarian lunatic killers, in fact why don't we start with the Bible: the first murderer in history was the vegetarian Cain who killed the carnivorous Abel, not the other way around.

 

Cain was not the first murderer... "God" demanded a blood sacrifice... which Abel delivered... Cain offered fruits/veges... "God" wanted blood though...

 

Strange "God" hm?

 

Which would you prefer?

 

 

 

Or

 

 

???

 

"The perfect man is pure spirit...Neither death nor life concern him, nor is he interested in what is good or bad"

 

Apparently there is no good or bad???

 

+ Since a number are totally desensitized to the suffering of animals... I guess everyone will be comfortable with the above image?

 

Edited January 23, 2014 by White Wolf Running On Air

[Rara]

FYI, I returned to not eating meat just over a month ago. Feeling fine! I have a very balanced diet and it's really working out for me.

 

I figured...the body is my temple...and I no longer want to put dead flesh in the temple.

 

I'm not a vegetarian though. I just don't eat meat XD

[phore]

Ive been a vegetarian for 4 years now. I was also a vegetarian for about a year and a half before that.

 

The most important single piece of information needed to survive on a vegetarian diet is this:

 

Combine beans and nuts with whole grains for most of your protein. I have used this for years and have gained considerable muscle compared to when i was eating meat.

 

I have also spent a few weeks traveling and was not able to plan my own meals around this combination. I was eating a lot of eggs and vegetables during this time. I went from the most muscular I have ever been in my life, to incredibly skinny in those few weeks.

 

Ive heard other people tell stories about how "they tried vegetarian diets and could not get enough protein." I wonder, when I hear these stories, how much of that could have been remedied by this combination.

 

With a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet using this protein combination guideline, you should experience very few difficulties.

 

From an energetic perspective, I have noticed that vegetarian diets produce a much lighter type of energy. This is conducive to energetic practices such as Qigong and Yoga. A vegetarian meal will not direct as much energetic attention to digestion as a meal with meat.

 

You seem to have experienced something like this, in your original post. It seems to be a form ot teleempathy.

 

Love and Light

Tony

[nickyro]

Ive been a vegetarian for 4 years now. I was also a vegetarian for about a year and a half before that.

 

The most important single piece of information needed to survive on a vegetarian diet is this:

 

Combine beans and nuts with whole grains for most of your protein. I have used this for years and have gained considerable muscle compared to when i was eating meat.

 

I have also spent a few weeks traveling and was not able to plan my own meals around this combination. I was eating a lot of eggs and vegetables during this time. I went from the most muscular I have ever been in my life, to incredibly skinny in those few weeks.

 

Ive heard other people tell stories about how "they tried vegetarian diets and could not get enough protein." I wonder, when I hear these stories, how much of that could have been remedied by this combination.

 

With a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet using this protein combination guideline, you should experience very few difficulties.

 

From an energetic perspective, I have noticed that vegetarian diets produce a much lighter type of energy. This is conducive to energetic practices such as Qigong and Yoga. A vegetarian meal will not direct as much energetic attention to digestion as a meal with meat.

 

You seem to have experienced something like this, in your original post. It seems to be a form ot teleempathy.

 

Love and Light

Tony

 

How do you manage the "ungrounding" effect of vegetarian diet? Any tips?

[phore]

How do you manage the "ungrounding" effect of vegetarian diet? Any tips?

Thats a good question.

 

When I first experienced a Kundalini awakening, I tried eating red meat and smoking organic ciggerettes. This had a very grounding effect. It was helpful in the sense that if I was feeling like my mind was expanding beyond my ability to adapt to changes, the grounding experience would decrease this effect.

 

At a certain point I decided that being grounded was sort of boring. I went organic vegetarian, cut the ciggerettes completely and started meditating about 6 hours a day in a shack our in a field behind my moms house.

 

At this point with no grounding, my mind took off. This came with some bumps as I recognized certain egotistic patterns of suffering within my life.

 

The key that I have discovered for dealing with this Is cultivating a feeling of unconditional love. This includes love in and of itself, love for others and love for myself. This does not mean unbridled and excessive giving. Sometimes you have to withhold energy to maintain the balance of true love.

 

This comes along with cultivating an awareness of the heart. While the lower chakras tend to lead to sensual distractions when excessively cultivated, the upper chakras tend to lead to intellectual distractions when excessively focused upon. The heart chakra, being the metaphysical center of the human experience and the middle path, leads to a state of centered loving beingness, without attachment to excesses.

 

Looking back on the experience I actually find that being grounded was actually, more harmful to me than being ungrounded. Were taught to focus on superficial things like popularity, financial success, and the like by our social conditioning. By being grounded I seemed to be promoting these qualities.

 

The awareness of love, and a heart centered existence tends to allow me to participate in these earthly activities with integrity while being pleasantly detached.

 

In addition to the above, if a person is having trouble adapting to the higher realms (such as in Kundalini or spiritual crisis), I recommend the following:

 

1. Quit using or limit use of drugs. This includes obvious hard drugs, as well as alcohol, hallucinogens, and even sugar or caffeine. Use discretion if you are under a doctors care of course (mandatory disclaimer).

 

2. Read a good book. Chauang tzu, or Abhinivagupta are great choices.

 

3. Limit distracting activities. Western television, and violent video games tend to hinder these processes.

 

4. Meditate regularly. Great way to let go of stress, and energetic or psychological blockages.

 

5. Exercise regularly. Practices such as taichi and yoga, are great for sombining somatic and spiritual awareness.

 

To sum it up, In my experience being ungrounded is generally preferable to being grounded, especially if you are centered in unconditional love.

 

Love and Light

Tony

[Rara]

Ive been a vegetarian for 4 years now. I was also a vegetarian for about a year and a half before that.

 

The most important single piece of information needed to survive on a vegetarian diet is this:

 

Combine beans and nuts with whole grains for most of your protein. I have used this for years and have gained considerable muscle compared to when i was eating meat.

 

I have also spent a few weeks traveling and was not able to plan my own meals around this combination. I was eating a lot of eggs and vegetables during this time. I went from the most muscular I have ever been in my life, to incredibly skinny in those few weeks.

 

Ive heard other people tell stories about how "they tried vegetarian diets and could not get enough protein." I wonder, when I hear these stories, how much of that could have been remedied by this combination.

 

With a lacto-ovo vegetarian diet using this protein combination guideline, you should experience very few difficulties.

 

From an energetic perspective, I have noticed that vegetarian diets produce a much lighter type of energy. This is conducive to energetic practices such as Qigong and Yoga. A vegetarian meal will not direct as much energetic attention to digestion as a meal with meat.

 

You seem to have experienced something like this, in your original post. It seems to be a form ot teleempathy.

 

Love and Light

Tony

Thank you, although I have a more mushroom and tofu heavy diet to replace my chicken. Seems to work out though, and beans, eggs etc are still very present.

 

Yes, my first attempt failed because I wanted it too. I would find any excuse to help varify me turning back to eating meat.

 

I'm quite the opposite these days. Listening to the heart, not the head!

[LaoZiDao]

Some good fixes:

 

soy milk - one cup has the same protein as a portion of meat!

 

peanuts:

 

tofu: .

Peanuts are damp and fiery, some people should not have then, and if so only a small handful. Its hardly a replacement of meat.

 

Soy milk is no where near a replacement of meat. And it is also cooling and damp, totally different function from meat (same for tofu). Protein is one thing..what about iron, zinc and amino acids etc.

 

Iv had friends who have gone vegetarian and had to turn back to normal diet as it was not really possible -especially with today's modern food \ minerals in soil etc. Fatigue, slow thinking, less clarity are all common. In long term vegetarians I have found they are very slow thinkers and talkers.

 

Also IMO, not eating meat is not a great moral decision. Plants also have life and karma, jingqishen, why do you eat them then? They are all part of creation.

 

There are no cheats to shedding your karma, eating food is an exchange of energy, even animals eat other animals (and plants) they smartly do what they need too. Humans are able to digest both meat and plant, and that's what should be done IMO. Whether its plant or animal, fungus, water, rock minerals. They are all part of Dao.

 

Edit, in saying all that I believe only small amounts of meat need to be eaten with mostly vegetables, grains etc.

Edited February 9, 2015 by LaoZiDao

[mYTHmAKER]

Make sure all soy is organic and non GMO

Hemp powder and milk is good

I have said this before in other vegetarian topics

Check out Dr Joel Fuhrman. There is a lot free info on his website

His books have a wealth of information

[Source]

Many wise men through history have promoted vegetarianism. I have been vegetarian for a few months now. With powerlifting as a hobby - I have only gotten stronger.


Keep mental frame as a flexitarian during the initial shift?


No matter what it is, you will find arguments for and against.

[wilfred]

my diet is is mainly veggie sources, but still eat a fair amount of eggs, fish a couple of times a week and chicken less often. i am on the yin side, so i make sure i use spices and yang tonics (particularly ginseng) to balance things out. if you want to get as much bang for buck out of fish as a b12 souce - sardines and mackrel pack the biggest punch. i also take a krill oil capsule daily. this recent jing herbs podcast has a guy on talking about the importance of having a good source of choline in the diet and is coming from an eastern angle so people here will relate. in fact, this podcast is generally very interesting for anyone interested in tonics, balancing energy with herbs etc

 

http://www.jingherbsradio.com/roger-drummer-brain-stress-and-adaptogenic-energy-episode-25/

Edited February 10, 2015 by wilfred

[LaoZiDao]

but vegetarianism can support spiritual growth. at certain points in your spiritual path, you body may actually reject the idea of eating meat.

 

also, when the ldt is in an expansive period, you actually crave meat. i've been there. it passes though.

 

Yeah at certain points - a lot of modern schools teach disciples to starve themselves and damage their Yuanqi from the get go (though they think it's right, from misinterpreting texts saying to do this.. etc etc.. this ain't the thread for this topic ).

 

Might want to check this book by Dr Weston A Price 'Nutrition and Physical Degeneration - A Comparison of Primitive and Modern Diets and Their Effects'

 

A great article here as well:

http://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/ancient-dietary-wisdom-for-tomorrows-children/

 

[Aetherous]

my diet is is mainly veggie sources, but still eat a fair amount of eggs

 

Something interesting that I recently realized (sorry if this seems like a "duh" moment)...but previously I always assumed that chicken eggs were unborn chicks that just weren't given enough time to hatch. In actuality, most chicken eggs aren't fertilized, so they aren't actually an animal. In this sense, they're similar to milk...a product that comes from an animal which is not an animal itself. Apparently hens lay like 200 eggs a year naturally.

 

Hopefully that makes things easier for vegetarians who like eggs, but don't like eating living beings.

 

Don't know how I got through life without ever really understanding this until now!

[Rara]

Peanuts are damp and fiery, some people should not have then, and if so only a small handful. Its hardly a replacement of meat.

 

Soy milk is no where near a replacement of meat. And it is also cooling and damp, totally different function from meat (same for tofu). Protein is one thing..what about iron, zinc and amino acids etc.

 

Iv had friends who have gone vegetarian and had to turn back to normal diet as it was not really possible -especially with today's modern food \ minerals in soil etc. Fatigue, slow thinking, less clarity are all common. In long term vegetarians I have found they are very slow thinkers and talkers.

 

Also IMO, not eating meat is not a great moral decision. Plants also have life and karma, jingqishen, why do you eat them then? They are all part of creation.

 

There are no cheats to shedding your karma, eating food is an exchange of energy, even animals eat other animals (and plants) they smartly do what they need too. Humans are able to digest both meat and plant, and that's what should be done IMO. Whether its plant or animal, fungus, water, rock minerals. They are all part of Dao.

 

Edit, in saying all that I believe only small amounts of meat need to be eaten with mostly vegetables, grains etc.

Zinc, iron and amino acids can be found in other foods from the ground as well as supplements. As long as I get plenty of spinnach, broccoli etc and a multivitamin and zinc pill every morning I think I will do just fine. If anything, my reflexes and energy levels have increased. I will report on this later on in the year though to see how I am affected by the time the busy business period starts.

 

RE moral decision...plants don't scream when they are chopped down. There is an obvious distinction between eating something that was once able to see and feel than corn from a field.

[Rara]

Make sure all soy is organic and non GMO

Hemp powder and milk is good

I have said this before in other vegetarian topics

Check out Dr Joel Fuhrman. There is a lot free info on his website

His books have a wealth of information

Thank you, I have all that info from you stored

[Rara]

 

Something interesting that I recently realized (sorry if this seems like a "duh" moment)...but previously I always assumed that chicken eggs were unborn chicks that just weren't given enough time to hatch. In actuality, most chicken eggs aren't fertilized, so they aren't actually an animal. In this sense, they're similar to milk...a product that comes from an animal which is not an animal itself. Apparently hens lay like 200 eggs a year naturally.

 

Hopefully that makes things easier for vegetarians who like eggs, but don't like eating living beings.

 

Don't know how I got through life without ever really understanding this until now!

Awww, haha.

 

Yeah, still love my eggs and cheese.

[LaoZiDao]

 

RE moral decision...plants don't scream when they are chopped down. There is an obvious distinction between eating something that was once able to see and feel than corn from a field.

DALLAS--Research scientists at Baylor Medical Center have proven that plants, including vegetables, feel pain when subjected to trauma such as being yanked out of the ground, peeled, cooked, and eaten. "Veggies and plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury," says professor Barry Lindzer. "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured. We cannot ignore the similarities."

 

www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

 

 

Interesting as well:

"If you read, the book of Genesis, Ch. No. 9, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that 'They will fear you, they will dread you - all creatures of the earth, all fouls in the sky, all creatures that liveth on the earth, as well as all the fishes in the sea, they shall be delivered to you. Next Verse Genesis, Ch. 9, Verse 3 says that Every creature that moveth on land, and is a living creature - they are meat unto you, and also herbs and shrubs. Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 9, that Ye shall have the meat of all the things in the water - All that have fins and scales, you shall eat - Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 11, says that You shall have the lawful meat of the birds. Deuteronomy Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 20 says that Ye shall eat the meat of the lawful fowls - It is allowed. Further if you read, it is mentioned in the book of Hebrews, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 13 and 14 that If you have Milk, you are weak - if you have strong meat, you are powerful in reasoning - Bible says that not I. In the Gospel of Luke, Ch. No. 24 only quotations Verse No. 41 to 43 Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), goes in the upper room and he says Have you any meat to eat?- And the disciples gave him a piece of broiled fish and honey comb fish - and he ate before them. Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) - in the book of Romans, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that One who believth in eating all things, he can eat - those who are weak, they only eat herbs and shrubs - but anyone who eateth, should not insult those who eateth not - and those who eateth not, should not judge those who eateth - This is law of God"

[soaring crane]

wanna mention what I feel is an outstanding product:

 

http://www.oatly.com/

 

We buy and use the heavy cream for cooking, and it's just excellent. You can use it exactly like milk/cream and it's not expensive (considering the quality and low demand, and prices of comparable products).

[wilfred]

Something interesting that I recently realized (sorry if this seems like a "duh" moment)...but previously I always assumed that chicken eggs were unborn chicks that just weren't given enough time to hatch. In actuality, most chicken eggs aren't fertilized, so they aren't actually an animal. In this sense, they're similar to milk...a product that comes from an animal which is not an animal itself. Apparently hens lay like 200 eggs a year naturally.

 

Hopefully that makes things easier for vegetarians who like eggs, but don't like eating living beings.

 

Don't know how I got through life without ever really understanding this until now!

 

exactly, they are effectively waste products and one of the finest superfoods given the nutritional profile. it's interesting how some vegetarians will eat them and some won't, though with vegans they're totally off the cards. perhaps the commercially raised chickens don't have the best living conditions, but ideally you have a few of your own hens in the garden. they can produce more than enough eggs to feed you and a family. long term that's what i'd like to do, you can give them vegetable scraps and keep them on a healthy diet too

Edited February 10, 2015 by wilfred

[Rara]

DALLAS--Research scientists at Baylor Medical Center have proven that plants, including vegetables, feel pain when subjected to trauma such as being yanked out of the ground, peeled, cooked, and eaten. "Veggies and plants initiate a massive hormone and chemical barrage internally when they suffer any kind of injury," says professor Barry Lindzer. "This response is akin to the nerve response and endorphin release when an animal is injured. We cannot ignore the similarities."

 

www.pri.org/stories/2014-01-09/new-research-plant-intelligence-may-forever-change-how-you-think-about-plants

 

 

Interesting as well:

"If you read, the book of Genesis, Ch. No. 9, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that 'They will fear you, they will dread you - all creatures of the earth, all fouls in the sky, all creatures that liveth on the earth, as well as all the fishes in the sea, they shall be delivered to you. Next Verse Genesis, Ch. 9, Verse 3 says that Every creature that moveth on land, and is a living creature - they are meat unto you, and also herbs and shrubs. Mentioned in the book of Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 9, that Ye shall have the meat of all the things in the water - All that have fins and scales, you shall eat - Deuteronomy, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 11, says that You shall have the lawful meat of the birds. Deuteronomy Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 20 says that Ye shall eat the meat of the lawful fowls - It is allowed. Further if you read, it is mentioned in the book of Hebrews, Ch. No. 5, Verse No. 13 and 14 that If you have Milk, you are weak - if you have strong meat, you are powerful in reasoning - Bible says that not I. In the Gospel of Luke, Ch. No. 24 only quotations Verse No. 41 to 43 Jesus Christ (peace be upon him), goes in the upper room and he says Have you any meat to eat?- And the disciples gave him a piece of broiled fish and honey comb fish - and he ate before them. Jesus Christ (peace be upon him) - in the book of Romans, Ch. No. 14, Verse No. 2 and 3, it says that One who believth in eating all things, he can eat - those who are weak, they only eat herbs and shrubs - but anyone who eateth, should not insult those who eateth not - and those who eateth not, should not judge those who eateth - This is law of God"

About the research in Dallas, I will check that out, thank you.

 

As for the bible references, I see this as no justification whatsoever.

[Rara]

Me, I spent one year as a strict vegetarian, and one year on strict paleo, and I won't touch vegetarianism again with a six-foot pole, while paleo may be revisited.  It was hard to maintain practically (god only knows how few foods are available to anyone who refuses to eat filler material and insists on actual nutrition), but it convinced me that quite a few people could solve quite a few common physical, emotional and mental health problems doing just that.  

5 months and I feel my brain is barely here any more. Correct, it is impossible to maintain unless I have all the time in the world to prepare food. It started ok but eventually, the fantasy is over and it's a choice of...oh, buying a cheese and onion pastie on the go ...again....eating a peanut butter sandwich....again or going hungry.

 

I have overloaded on sugar and bread once again because there just is not enough time to prepare more chick peas and broccoli in my day!

 

I bought some cod liver oil and just had my first dose. Vegetarianism officially broken.

 

Damn me and my fad diets!

[Songtsan]

I too have been considering this. I went vegetarian for a year once and I think I was the most peaceful I've ever been. In fact, I had a food allergy test once and found out I am allergic to red meats. IgG and IgA reactions can cause all sorts of delayed inflammatory reactions which can result in depression and mania. In fact, stupid me has been eating beef and pork the last few days and been feeling more and more manic. Go figure!