Turning vegetarian - need advice

[Songtsan]

Oh wait...I skipped from the OP to here...so you aren't doing vegetarian anymore then?

[mYTHmAKER]

cook beans for a week or two and freeze - put in one serving size containers

[Rara]

Oh wait...I skipped from the OP to here...so you aren't doing vegetarian anymore then?

Hi! Yes, sorry, it has been a lot of back an forth.

 

It has certainly opened my eyes over the past few months. There will be a more balanced diet, no excessive or poor quality meat.

 

But by eating meat again, I know I won't be eating as much processed food to stop me dropping weight!

[Rara]

cook beans for a week or two and freeze - put in one serving size containers

My friend, I have been cooking and tubbing to the point of exhaustion.

 

Cold beans with a plastic fork on a train is far from practical also (I travel daily for work...I still don't drive and it's hard to find time to eat as it is)

 

Not to mention my struggle to keep weight up. I can live off potatoes, pulses, mushrooms, greens etc...if I'm content to drop to 130lbs and stay there forever.

[Taomeow]

Rara, welcome back to the race of obligatory omnivores, also known as the human race.

 

Don't damn yourself for the fad diet -- it does indeed work for 1% of the population but they are the ones making 20% of claims about it (the other 80% originate with special interest groups -- notably mega corporations commissioning social engineering for the masses), so don't blame yourself for having been seduced by the sirens -- they have trillions of dollars of which they can and do allocate enough to seducing you.  And now a book recommendation so you don't fall for the next one:

The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability, by Lierre Keith

It's one of those rare and precious books that can make you cry -- not because the author, a vegan for 20 years, tears at your heart's strings with graphic descriptions of what she did to her body and mind (there's scarcely two pages dedicated to that lamentable story) but because it gives you a glimpse into the truth, and nothing about the truth can be discovered by droning the infomercials emanating from this or that special interest.  And the truth will set you nourished.  As it would us all if it wasn't so well hidden. 

 

Good luck.

Edited May 19, 2015 by Taomeow

[mYTHmAKER]

5 months and I feel my brain is barely here any more. Correct, it is impossible to maintain unless I have all the time in the world to prepare food. It started ok but eventually, the fantasy is over and it's a choice of...oh, buying a cheese and onion pastie on the go ...again....eating a peanut butter sandwich....again or going hungry.

 

I have overloaded on sugar and bread once again because there just is not enough time to prepare more chick peas and broccoli in my day!

 

I bought some cod liver oil and just had my first dose. Vegetarianism officially broken.

 

Damn

me and my fad diets!

I have been on a fad vegetarian diet for over 40 years.

If one is making dinner with very little extra effort one can prepare the next days lunch.

No matter what we eat processed foods are the worst

Health bars are not always healthy

Be happy with whatever you choose to eat

If something doesn't taste good, satisfy your palette don't eat it

[Taomeow]

The belief that tomatoes are not only inedible but deadly lasted for 300 years.  A cook hired by opposition tried to murder one of the presidents by secretly adding tomato juice to his food.

 

In Russia in the 17th century, imperial order to plant potatoes resulted in massive peasant uprisings.  In different parts of  Europe, potatoes took from 200 to 300 years to gain acceptance.  Asians still mostly don't eat them. 

 

In India and Pakistan during famines in the second half of the 20th century, people took to the streets protesting relief they got from the international organizations in the form of wheat and wheat flour.  "Give us rice and stop poisoning us."

 

In the Caucasus mountains, I gathered prime boletus mushrooms which the locals don't eat.  They don't eat any mushrooms, period.  

 

Most things people believe about food are fads and have been for a long time.  That's because we've all been displaced.  If you grow up eating foods of your natural habitat that nourished your successfully reproducing ancestors for hundreds of thousands of years, you are not likely to make stupid mistakes.  And just because a fad lasts -- for 40 years or for 400 years or for 4000 -- does not make it any less a fad.  We were already displaced from our natural habitat 10 to 15 thousand years ago, so everything we've been doing since then was done by the fool's method of trial and error. 

 

There's no experts on nutrition, there's only shades of ignorance.  A darker shade results in annoying and occasionally insulting preaching and/or dire repercussions for one's health and the health of those who get enlisted.  A lighter shade is easier on self and others.  But there's no experts, really.  Human nutrition is the single most complex issue on earth -- and so far a botched job. 

[mYTHmAKER]

Rara, welcome back to the race of obligatory omnivores, also known as the human race.

 

Don't damn yourself for the fad diet -- it does indeed work for 1% of the population but they are the ones making 20% of claims about it (the other 80% originate with special interest groups -- notably mega corporations commissioning social engineering for the masses), so don't blame yourself for having been seduced by the sirens -- they have trillions of dollars of which they can and do allocate enough to seducing you.  And now a book recommendation so you don't fall for the next one:

The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability, by Lierre Keith

It's one of those rare and precious books that can make you cry -- not because the author, a vegan for 20 years, tears at your heart's strings with graphic descriptions of what she did to her body and mind (there's scarcely two pages dedicated to that lamentable story) but because it gives you a glimpse into the truth, and nothing about the truth can be discovered by droning the infomercials emanating from this or that special interest.  And the truth will set you nourished.  As it would us all if it wasn't so well hidden. 

 

Good luck.

I haven't read the book, however i would bet she didn't know what she was doing.

When I first became a vegetarian i became sick as i didn't know how to eat properly - although i must say i wasn't eating that well when i was a carnavore and i really wasn't too healthy then either. When i was shown the proper way I healed within a month.

So i don't think it is justified to to make it into a black and white situation.

From a health point of view IMHO there is nothing wrong with eating flesh as long as one doesn't over do it. There are plenty of healthy vegetarians out there - google a list of athletes.

Vegetarianism has been around a long time and if it  is considered a fad i would guess one could also consider eating flesh a fad.

And of course there are no infomercials on the wonders of meat and junk food.

However you choose to eat stay away from junk food - processed food - because it is not food.

Edited May 20, 2015 by mYTHmAKER

[MooNiNite]

food is of a lower nature compared to spiritual development. 

 

The potential of the human body is much much greater than most have attained.

 

The real goal is living a spritiual life, food and material things are much lesser. 

 

The body can heal itself, i dont care what you eat. i know masters who live on garbage food and are much healthier than me. 

 

Because they are alive. It is lifestyle and what you do with your body-vehicle that matters. All these people talk about 

 

food being really important because it is what you put into the machine. Thats nonsense. a true master barely eats much food because they are intaking nutrients from higher sources. Most people arent even breathing correctly. no wonder they eat so much. 

 

Open the crown. open the mind. Eliminate Dis-ease, allowing the body to reach higher potentials and cure all disease.

 

The best way to make the world more conscious and facilitate true change, is to become a light.  

[MooNiNite]

Who is being processed? The humans or the animals?

http://www.whydontyoutrythis.com/2013/08/the-most-eye-opening-six-minutes-ever-on-film.html

[Rara]

Rara, welcome back to the race of obligatory omnivores, also known as the human race.

 

Don't damn yourself for the fad diet -- it does indeed work for 1% of the population but they are the ones making 20% of claims about it (the other 80% originate with special interest groups -- notably mega corporations commissioning social engineering for the masses), so don't blame yourself for having been seduced by the sirens -- they have trillions of dollars of which they can and do allocate enough to seducing you. And now a book recommendation so you don't fall for the next one:

The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability, by Lierre Keith

It's one of those rare and precious books that can make you cry -- not because the author, a vegan for 20 years, tears at your heart's strings with graphic descriptions of what she did to her body and mind (there's scarcely two pages dedicated to that lamentable story) but because it gives you a glimpse into the truth, and nothing about the truth can be discovered by droning the infomercials emanating from this or that special interest. And the truth will set you nourished. As it would us all if it wasn't so well hidden.

 

Good luck.

I shall get the book, sounds interesting.

 

Or is this a test? Am I being seduced again? Lol

Edited May 20, 2015 by Rara

[Rara]

I have been on a fad vegetarian diet for over 40 years.

If one is making dinner with very little extra effort one can prepare the next days lunch.

No matter what we eat processed foods are the worst

Health bars are not always healthy

Be happy with whatever you choose to eat

If something doesn't taste good, satisfy your palette don't eat it

Sure...but then there is cooking for the next night. My partner and I are both highly active and out of the house a lot of the time, yet we still cook every other night (saving a load for the next night)

 

When we get the chance, we will cook some lunches up but as our "job lives" have no routine, it's impossible to have a strict cooking routine.

 

Thanks for all your inlut though, I do appreciate it Please don't feel that I am calling it a fad diet for all vegetarians. Just for me as in previous seasons, it's been carb cutting and protein shakes. It's the way I tend to do things and just seems silly as I never accept that I always end up back at square one.

Edited May 20, 2015 by Rara

[Taomeow]

I shall get the book, sounds interesting.

 

Or is this a test? Am I being seduced again? Lol

 

This Is Not A Test.  The book does not single out vegetarians -- it is written for humans.  But it is vegetarianism that offers one false solution to a myriad real problems that is the launching pad for the author's superb presentation, simply because this is the platform she knows best from her personal experience.  

[Taomeow]

I haven't read the book, however i would bet she didn't know what she was doing.

 

What can I offer you in return for reading the book?  Name your price.   

 

If we strike a deal and you do read the book, go back to what you wrote and tell me what it is exactly that she didn't know about vegetarianism that she should have known to fare better.  

 

Also, what it is that makes people who have a belief system that seems to work for them assume that anything that does not confirm this belief in real life is the outcome of someone doing something wrong when trying to apply this belief system to their life and failing to thrive.  Successful vegetarians believe they are successful because they are doing it right, and those who are not successful are not successful because they are doing it wrong. 

 

I think the book has the answer to this too.  I wonder if you would be open to the idea that some people are cut out for it -- one percent would be my guess --- but then, there's a guy who ate his car, he's in the Guinness book of records I think, in any event you can look him up.  Took him a few years -- three? -- he ground parts of his car into fine powder and gradually ate it, all of it.  A Chevy I think.  Apparently with no immediate ill effects.  So, just because you can be a vegetarian, and he can be a caritarian doesn't prove much at all about what I ought to be eating.  Really.

[Rara]

What can I offer you in return for reading the book? Name your price.

 

If we strike a deal and you do read the book, go back to what you wrote and tell me what it is exactly that she didn't know about vegetarianism that she should have known to fare better.

 

Also, what it is that makes people who have a belief system that seems to work for them assume that anything that does not confirm this belief in real life is the outcome of someone doing something wrong when trying to apply this belief system to their life and failing to thrive. Successful vegetarians believe they are successful because they are doing it right, and those who are not successful are not successful because they are doing it wrong.

 

I think the book has the answer to this too. I wonder if you would be open to the idea that some people are cut out for it -- one percent would be my guess --- but then, there's a guy who ate his car, he's in the Guinness book of records I think, in any event you can look him up. Took him a few years -- three? -- he ground parts of his car into fine powder and gradually ate it, all of it. A Chevy I think. Apparently with no immediate ill effects. So, just because you can be a vegetarian, and he can be a caritarian doesn't prove much at all about what I ought to be eating. Really.

Although this thread was never designed to "prove a point" (well, I guess I broke my own rule anyway) this post has a very good one!

[mYTHmAKER]

What can I offer you in return for reading the book?  Name your price.   

 

If we strike a deal and you do read the book, go back to what you wrote and tell me what it is exactly that she didn't know about vegetarianism that she should have known to fare better.  

 

Also, what it is that makes people who have a belief system that seems to work for them assume that anything that does not confirm this belief in real life is the outcome of someone doing something wrong when trying to apply this belief system to their life and failing to thrive.  Successful vegetarians believe they are successful because they are doing it right, and those who are not successful are not successful because they are doing it wrong. 

 

I think the book has the answer to this too.  I wonder if you would be open to the idea that some people are cut out for it -- one percent would be my guess --- but then, there's a guy who ate his car, he's in the Guinness book of records I think, in any event you can look him up.  Took him a few years -- three? -- he ground parts of his car into fine powder and gradually ate it, all of it.  A Chevy I think.  Apparently with no immediate ill effects.  So, just because you can be a vegetarian, and he can be a caritarian doesn't prove much at all about what I ought to be eating.  Really.

Send me the book and i will read it with an open mind and i will let you know my thoughts. If she ate correctly and 'suffered' as a vegetarian IMHO it does not justify her damming vegetarianism as not working for everyone.

BTW the guy who ate the car was lucky he would not have fared as well if it had been a Honda

[Taomeow]

All right.   It's on loan to a friend (an ex vegetarian -- another one I'm personally responsible for ex-ing! -- I will stand before the tianzun with this merit or sin to my name, converting scores of vegetarians -- though no one with your track record of 40 years -- but I'm not planning on teaching this young dog my old tricks, just on sharing a noteworthy perspective, as a special treat...)  When my friend gives it back, I'll send it your way -- PM me where, please. 

[thelerner]

 

 

 but then, there's a guy who ate his car, he's in the Guinness book of records I think,..  A Chevy I think.  Apparently with no immediate ill effects.

Hmm, interesting what kind of mileage does he get?

[mYTHmAKER]

Gather around children and i will tell you how i became a vegetarian.

Once upon a time over 40 years ago i was renting a summer cottage on a lake

and every weekend we would barbecue barbecue barbecue

On the last day of the last weekend of our stay - it was labor day.

We bought frozen chicken and I put it to flame.

It wasn't quite cooked enough - i took a bite and something happened - a shft took place

There was a subtle shift a curtain a veil was removed  a  n  d  i lost my desire, all desire for meat.

The thought of eating meat didn't make me sick, didn't disgust me it's only that the desire left. Poof it was gone.

That was the last time i ate meat.

Vegetarian wasn't even in my vocabularly or my consciousness. It was hard finding restaurants to accommodate me, most people couldn't understand me not eating meat. It was a difficult time. Today vegetarians are accommodated everywhere and cool people are vegetarians.

I was lucky that being a vegetarian is a healthy choice. i don't know what would have happened to me if it wasn't.

 

Poets
are often
eaten alive;
their flesh
can  be
quite tender.

At one time
I ate dead bodies
with the
best of them,
never fully
understanding
the implications
and
the pain
of how
they arrived
at my table.

Then one day
the desire,
to eat
empty houses
of souls who
have left
or been
forced to
evacuate,
was gone.

What to do?

With no
effort,
not knowing
how or why;
just as
some people
no longer
wish to work,
brush their teeth,
exercise,
or
swim in the sea
in dead of winter,
my desire left me.

What to do?

I imagine
human beings
as quite tasty
and would
just as soon
eat
a cow,
a cat,
a dog,
a pig,  
as a poet.
So why the fuss.  
 

Sometimes
I wake up
in a cold sweat
to the sounds
of vegetables
screaming!

 

What to do?
 

[cheya]

Here's Chapter 1 from The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability, by Lierre Keith,

the book Taomeow referred to above.

 

http://www.lierrekeith.com/book-ex_the-vegetarian-myth.php

 

For the flavor: "I want a full accounting, an accounting that goes way beyond what’s dead on your plate. I’m asking about everything that died in the process, everything that was killed to get that food onto your plate. That’s the more radical question, and it’s the only question that will produce the truth. How many rivers were dammed and drained, how many prairies plowed and forests pulled down, how much topsoil turned to dust and blown into ghosts? I want to know about all the species—not just the individuals, but the entire species—the chinook, the bison, the grasshopper sparrows, the grey wolves. And I want more than just the number of dead and gone. I want them back."

 

Wow!

Thanks Taomeow!

 

 

[mYTHmAKER]

A review of The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability, by Lierre Keith,

 

http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/09/review-of-the-vegetarian-myth.html

[Rara]

Gather around children and i will tell you how i became a vegetarian.

Once upon a time over 40 years ago i was renting a summer cottage on a lake

and every weekend we would barbecue barbecue barbecue

On the last day of the last weekend of our stay - it was labor day.

We bought frozen chicken and I put it to flame.

It wasn't quite cooked enough - i took a bite and something happened - a shft took place

There was a subtle shift a curtain a veil was removed a n d i lost my desire, all desire for meat.

The thought of eating meat didn't make me sick, didn't disgust me it's only that the desire left. Poof it was gone.

That was the last time i ate meat.

Vegetarian wasn't even in my vocabularly or my consciousness. It was hard finding restaurants to accommodate me, most people couldn't understand me not eating meat. It was a difficult time. Today vegetarians are accommodated everywhere and cool people are vegetarians.

I was lucky that being a vegetarian is a healthy choice. i don't know what would have happened to me if it wasn't.

 

Poets

are often

eaten alive;

their flesh

can be

quite tender.

 

At one time

I ate dead bodies

with the

best of them,

never fully

understanding

the implications

and

the pain

of how

they arrived

at my table.

 

Then one day

the desire,

to eat

empty houses

of souls who

have left

or been

forced to

evacuate,

was gone.

 

What to do?

 

With no

effort,

not knowing

how or why;

just as

some people

no longer

wish to work,

brush their teeth,

exercise,

or

swim in the sea

in dead of winter,

my desire left me.

 

What to do?

 

I imagine

human beings

as quite tasty

and would

just as soon

eat

a cow,

a cat,

a dog,

a pig,

as a poet.

So why the fuss.

 

Sometimes

I wake up

in a cold sweat

to the sounds

of vegetables

screaming!

 

What to do?

 

I remember the passage from earlier in the thread. I see where you're coming from (I presume these are your words?) The desire left me too...I wouln't label myself vegetarian when I turned again in January...I just didn't eat meat.

 

I guess my decision now still isn't out of desire. I just feel it's neccessary.

[Rara]

A review of The Vegetarian Myth: Food, Justice, and Sustainability, by Lierre Keith,

http://www.theveganrd.com/2010/09/review-of-the-vegetarian-myth.html

That's not really a review. That's just a vegan arguing against an opinion.

 

If you read the book, how objective do you think you will be to the ideas she presents?

[mYTHmAKER]

That's not really a review. That's just a vegan arguing against an opinion.

 

If you read the book, how objective do you think you will be to the ideas she presents?

Did you read the book - do you know for a fact that it's not a valid review?

If i were to read the book the only reason would be to see what she 'says' she ate while being vegan to see where she went wrong - there always is a chance she ate well and her body just couldn't adapt.

The attitude - this didn't work for me and therefore it is no good for everyone. I must tell everyone is a born again attitude = religion.

As to the ideas she presents I have no interest - whatever her ideas the opposite will be presented somewhere else.

I'm sure some of the ideas she presents are true - she can't be 100% off.

This is not a matter of intellectual argument for me

[mYTHmAKER]

I remember the passage from earlier in the thread. I see where you're coming from (I presume these are your words?) The desire left me too...I wouln't label myself vegetarian when I turned again in January...I just didn't eat meat.

 

I guess my decision now still isn't out of desire. I just feel it's neccessary.

Yes all my words

You have explained that you don't have time to prepare food and eat properly.

When you go back to meat eating stay away from junk processed food.

What keeps us healthy is what we don't eat

Dr Joel Fuhrman, a medical doctor and vegan says you can eat up to 12 ounces of meat a week

after that disease starts to kick in. You might find his books interesting. He backs up his information with references to studies that have been done.