Building the foundation and Inner Alchemy

[宁]

Thanks YM, for completing the picture, not a big fan of big cities, because of the aforementioned reasons.

Fact is, you can still live a decent life in decent non-major cities with far less money than that, of course, still depends on one's standards.

Good marketing skills can make people buy an ordinary rock's weight in gold and still think it's an unbelivable bargain. We digressed.

 

YM, any views on the OP's post?

[opendao]

"The Nanzong doctrines can be summed up in the phrase "first the vital force [Ming], then the inner nature [Xing]".

Emphasis lies first on the practice of increasing the vital force through methods of self-cultivation, and then on meditation to achieve enlightenment.

On the other hand, Quanzhen begins with meditation [Xing] and claims that the life-force [Ming] will be reinforced naturally.

 

These theoretical distinctions, however, are not always followed by individual masters or schools."

____________________

 

"The encyclopedia of Taoism" by Fabrizio Pregadio

 

 

P.S.

see also http://thetaobums.com/topic/32514-mind-work-and-meditation-in-daoism/

 

I've already told that idea of "Xing before Ming" is wrong. Now let's see what Wang Chongyang, the most important person for all Northern schools, "Teacher-Father", wrote about it:

 

 

 

Only the Single Numinous [Nature] is Real. The body of flesh is provisional. Borrow and refine the provisional to complete what is Real. Move and combine and become one.

A lesson says theat [the methods that deal with] the ease and comfort of the present body are of the Lesser Vehicle.

But all such methods are the roots of the Greater Vehicle. ... The Lesser Vehicle is the root, and the Greater Vehicle is the stem.

...

Practitioners of nowadays do not understand what the body acquires its Nature and Life from and how it got to be born.

...

People nowadays who train themselves all do not cherish their father's semen and mother's blood.

[They] waste and scatter their Real qi and damage their primal yang. Therefore they have aging, the aging have diseases, and within diseases, they have death.

For the practitioner to always be pure and still is the fundamental method of the Greater Vehicle. Those who want to practice the Greater Vehicle must begin by seeking and following the Lesser Vehicle.

 

translated by Stephen Eskildsen.

 

As we see, it's evident Ming before Xing approach. Any doubts?

[Vitalii]

 

Only the Single Numinous [Nature] is Real. The body of flesh is provisional. Borrow and refine the provisional to complete what is Real. Move and combine and become one.

A lesson says theat [the methods that deal with] the ease and comfort of the present body are of the Lesser Vehicle.

But all such methods are the roots of the Greater Vehicle. ... The Lesser Vehicle is the root, and the Greater Vehicle is the stem.

...

Practitioners of nowadays do not understand what the body acquires its Nature and Life from and how it got to be born.

...

People nowadays who train themselves all do not cherish their father's semen and mother's blood.

[They] waste and scatter their Real qi and damage their primal yang. Therefore they have aging, the aging have diseases, and within diseases, they have death.

For the practitioner to always be pure and still is the fundamental method of the Greater Vehicle. Those who want to practice the Greater Vehicle must begin by seeking and following the Lesser Vehicle.

 

I know this Wang Chungyang text very well, because I translated it from Chinese. it is a 重陽真人金關玉鎖訣.

 

Wang Chungyang clearly and intelligibly said that practice begins with the work on Xing.

 

Text begins with the words:

 

"Someone asked, “What are the subtle principles for cultivating perfection (xiuzhen 修真)?”

Perfected Chongyang responded, “First, you must remove ignorance and vexations. Second, you must get rid of greed and craving, alcohol and sex, wealth and anger. This is the method of cultivation."

 

[Translated by Louis Komjathy]

 

Then Wang Chungyang said:

 

“First, you must observe the precepts and develop clarity, stillness, forbearance, compassion, genuineness, and goodness. You must abstain from the ten evils, practice expedient means, and strive to save all sentient beings. You must also be loyal to the ruler and king, and be fi lial and reverent to parents and teachers. This is the method of cultivation. Then and only then can you practice the exercises of perfection."

 

[Translated by Louis Komjathy]

 

Wang Chungyang also said:

 

"Anyone wishing to have tranquility, joy, and long life must remove disease by maintaining awareness of clarity and stillness."

"If you constantly regard clarity and stillness as the correct [method], your alignment with the Dao will become great".

[Translated by Louis Komjathy]

[opendao]

 

I know this Wang Chungyang text very well, because I translated it from Chinese. it is a 重陽真人金關玉鎖訣.

 

Wang Chungyang clearly and intelligibly said that practice begins with the work on Xing.

 

Text begins with the words:

 

"Someone asked, “What are the subtle principles for cultivating perfection (xiuzhen 修真)?”

Perfected Chongyang responded, “First, you must remove ignorance and vexations. Second, you must get rid of greed and craving, alcohol and sex, wealth and anger. This is the method of cultivation."

 

[Translated by Louis Komjathy]

 

Then Wang Chungyang said:

 

“First, you must observe the precepts and develop clarity, stillness, forbearance, compassion, genuineness, and goodness. You must abstain from the ten evils, practice expedient means, and strive to save all sentient beings. You must also be loyal to the ruler and king, and be fi lial and reverent to parents and teachers. This is the method of cultivation. Then and only then can you practice the exercises of perfection."

 

[Translated by Louis Komjathy]

 

Wang Chungyang also said:

 

"Anyone wishing to have tranquility, joy, and long life must remove disease by maintaining awareness of clarity and stillness."

"If you constantly regard clarity and stillness as the correct [method], your alignment with the Dao will become great".

[Translated by Louis Komjathy]

 

This all about Xin, preparatory practice. It's not even a part nor of "Lesser", nor "Greater" methods, defined in details above. If you know text so well then why so obvious things have to be explained?

 

But you can start with Xing and die early, without listening to Wang Chongyang advises ("waste and scatter their Real qi and damage their primal yang. Therefore they have aging, the aging have diseases, and within diseases, they have death."). Good luck in Dazuo!

 

And yes, Wang Chongyang is absolutely correct about "clean heart first". But in many Neidan school you even have no chance to knock the school doors if your heart is not clean of false thoughts and habits. So obviously it's not a part of their curriculum. Same as Chinese language, Teacher won't teach you such things

[LaoZiDao]

Regardless of what text you read or translated, have you achieved Ren Xian or greater with these methods? I think not. Maybe you have had some health improvements, lighter movements and more energy (post natal), but don't even talk about achieving Great Dao, and to even dare to teach others when you are an ordinary person yourself? It's good a joke.

[Vitalii]

Heart work [Xin gong] is a part of Xing gong and belongs to Building the foundation.

[opendao]

Heart work [Xin gong] is a part of Xing gong and belongs to Building the foundation.

 

maybe in your famous school... Oh, sorry to return to that, but maybe you will finally show us Ma Danyang's curriculum for Building the foundation? Maybe I don't know something...

 

Btw, if it's a part of Xinggong, that is Greater Vehicle by Wang Chongyang, then why he insists on doing Lesser Vehicle first (that is obviously Ming work)?

[Protector]

OK guy, I'm Belarusian living in Canada

If it's so hard, would you please send me some links in Russian instead so I could read them so I could see if the bickering can stop?

[opendao]

Regardless of what text you read or translated, have you achieved Ren Xian or greater with these methods? I think not. Maybe you have had some health improvements, lighter movements and more energy (post natal), but don't even talk about achieving Great Dao, and to even dare to teach others when you are an ordinary person yourself? It's good a joke.

 

When a good joke has been repeating for 10 years, it becomes a sad fact

 

The result is the most important thing. Pictures are in the Internet, so now it is easy to see masters' achievements. Even Dazuo has very evident traces on the face and body. Ren Xian is self evident. People just don't know what to look for.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hey Opendao, want to meet for coffee and discuss this? .

[LaoZiDao]

When a good joke has been repeating for 10 years, it becomes a sad fact

 

The result is the most important thing. Pictures are in the Internet, so now it is easy to see masters' achievements. Even Dazuo has very evident traces on the face and body. Ren Xian is self evident. People just don't know what to look for.

 

Is it possible you show any picutres of evident traces on the face and body of someone who practices Dazuo?

 

Are you able to share what signs to look for regarding Ren Xian?

[opendao]

 

Is it possible you show any picutres of evident traces on the face and body of someone who practices Dazuo?

 

I'll try to find again.

 

 

Are you able to share what signs to look for regarding Ren Xian?

 

no, it sounds too scary for Ren Xian people

[宁]

Wow are there even pictures of that? Cool! Where to look, maybe I can give a hand!

[ChiDragon]

 

Is it possible you show any picutres of evident traces on the face and body of someone who practices Dazuo?

 

Are you able to share what signs to look for regarding Ren Xian?

 

Scroll down and click on Images for 金身, body of someone who practices Dazuo.

 

Images for 金身

Edited November 14, 2013 by ChiDragon

[宁]

Not sure what u mean, post some of yr findings.

[ChiDragon]

This is a monk with gold painted over his body in Dazou position after death.
http://km.moc.gov.tw/myphoto/show1.asp?imageid=877&categoryid=20

http://www.fjdh.com/UploadFiles/Article_UploadFiles/200901/2009011215593153.jpg

http://img3.ph.126.net/FpQytbs4LS77qg8ghoELwQ==/6597235792913353883.jpg

http://club.fjdh.com/attachments/2012/04/8380_201204051241073gUWM.jpg

Edited November 14, 2013 by ChiDragon

[宁]

Oh that. I'm sure the poster meant something entirely different.

[adept]

Artificial Exercises

 

The Tao is natural. All forced manipulations and concoctions are in vain. Some people guard their minds and settle their ideas and thoughts, some people hold their breath and keep it in the abdomen, some people perform psychosomatic energy circulation exercises. When these people come to the end of their lives and find everything they did was useless, they will resent the gods, also uselessly.

 

Awakening To The Tao - Liu I Ming

[Brian]

Seems one should ask, "What do I seek?"

 

This appears to be an often-underappreciated question.

[adept]

Seems one should ask, "What do I seek?"

 

This appears to be an often-underappreciated question.

 

There is nothing to seek. It is this seeking that creates problems.

[adept]

A Broken Pot, A Leaking Jar

 

When a pot is broken, repair it and you can use it to cook as before. When a jar leaks, fix it and you can use it to hold water as before.

What I realize as I observe this is the Tao of recreating what has been ruined.

When people are born, their three treasures - vitality, energy, spirit - are a solid whole. Then when the cognitive consciousness opens up, these treasures leak out through the senses. They are infected by the germs of emotionalized action, playthings or parasites. Their sense experiences wear them down, their attraction to stimulation deludes their natures; greed, anger, folly, and attachment drain them of reality.

Chipped away by day and by night, the three treasures dwindle away; the whole body is sick, inwardly and outwardly spoiled. The original complete treasure has been made into a rotten worthless object - just like a broken pot or a leaking jar, it is a useless vessel.

If you are like this but become aware enough to take a serious look at yourself and change your attitude, disregard everything except the restoration of your birthright, the most important thing there is for anyone, the matter of essential life; act on this in a genuine real manner, one by one sweeping away everything acquired, withdrawing your aura, holding your thoughts fast, abandoning the false while keeping to the real, eliminating the abherrant and supporting the true, increasing daily in accomplishment while diminishing daily for the Way.

Increase what is to be increased, diminish what is to be diminished, until you reach a point where there is nothing more to increase and nothing more to diminish. Then you will naturally not leak vitality, so your vitality will be whole. What you have lost, you will regain; what was ruined will be recreated.

Then you will be what you were before; something whole and complete, just as a broken pot that has been repaired is again a fine pot, and a leaking jar that has been repaired is again a fine jar.

Nevertheless, people who are broken and leaking themselves are not aware of their misery. They take the false to be real, chopping away at their very lives day and night, breaking themselves down until the day when the pillars rot and the walls crumble, and they have nowhere to rest.

 

Awakening To The Tao - Liu I Ming

[Brian]

There is nothing to seek. It is this seeking that creates problems.

Agreed. Asking the question eventually (hopefully) leads to the realization that not only is the quest misguided but it is also both unnecessary & a hindrance to harmony with the Tao.

 

It was this realization that prompted me some time back to change my TTB screen name from "A Seeker" to simply that name by which I am most often called.

[dawei]

Artificial Exercises

 

The Tao is natural. All forced manipulations and concoctions are in vain. Some people guard their minds and settle their ideas and thoughts, some people hold their breath and keep it in the abdomen, some people perform psychosomatic energy circulation exercises. When these people come to the end of their lives and find everything they did was useless, they will resent the gods, also uselessly.

 

Awakening To The Tao - Liu I Ming

 

Baopuzi said that all practice is unnatural... artificial exercises is an apt way of saying it

[三江源]

.

Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[opendao]

Baopuzi said that all practice is unnatural... artificial exercises is an apt way of saying it

 

That's where it's good to think about Xiantian vs Houtian.