Can the Practice of Stillness-Movement add to your Martial arts ability?

[Brian]

Stillness-movement. Makes me think of doing any fast physical work, when things move so fast there there isn't any time, and it isn't necessary, to think of everything at the moment it's already in the process of happening. The movement seems to "take orbit" and be "of itself," rather than thought out so long as the center balance is maintained - with the center "balanced" before the movement moves from it, thoughts are movement, movement is thought. How do you explain it more than that - I don't know...

 

This, to me, is the stillness-movement that I know of and practice. The transmission I'm guessing would make this more, well.. guided.. turn up the volume on the balance frequency..... I guess I'll know when I know ....

 

Yes, much like this; in both cases, the mind is taken out of the process because it works too slowly. This is not to say the movements themselves (the spontaneous physical movements) are "too fast" but that the energetic actions would be limited by the mind's linearity.

 

Ya Mu quickly acknowledges that "quantum" isn't the right word, technically, but the contrast between Newtonian mechanics and quantum mechanics is appropriate, I think -- at least it is close enough to quell this old physicist's latent need for a logical understanding...

[Starjumper]

Here's a possible example of how energy can aid martial prowess. I had been playing a little push hands with my daughter who was around eight or ten at the time, she tried to push but it was always a breeze to deflect it. Once she had a day off school so I took her along to my chi kung class. So it was she and me and teacher. During the sitting meditation after the moving exercises he had her sit and meditate too! and while she was doing that he gave her a bunch of energy. Well after chi kung was over I wanted to show Mr. Yueng how we did some push hands, and my daughter bounced me off the wall in the first second!

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have found that clearing out the channels, opening them up more, and flowing energy through them is quite awesome for martial arts .

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Seems some people missed this, as well as requests that MPG start a new topic if he wants to discuss understandings of yin chi.

 

http://timemonkradio.com/threads/kostas-danaos-time-monk-radio-network-presents-july-30th-2011.34/

 

[...] (33 minutes in) [...]

 

Kostas:

"Yin chi is not something you put in (with effort), it sort of follows the Yang chi wherever it goes. So, when you generate Yang chi, if you sit down, then automatically you will pull in Yin chi because it wants to be in equal amount wherever the Yang chi is. There are schools that train in the development of Yin chi itself. I don't know anything about that. My training was in both (yang and yin chi training), but one rose as a consequence of the other. You don't deliberately say "I'm going to pull in yin chi now." It just happens. There are ways to do that, but I can't understand why anybody would want to."

 

[...]

[Harmonious Emptiness]

So, back to GOT and Stillness-Movement, I have noticed that I need to loosen up when I do GOT. It was mentioned earlier that the alignments for martial arts might be forgotten if one practices GOT. I guess that could happen, but they are two different things, imo. They don't need to be practiced at the same time. You can do GOT and then do martial arts. Forget the martial alignments the same as you would while, say, swimming, and then practice them afterwards.

 

I do find that, while I will incorporate sensibilities from GOT into martial arts practice, it's less GOT than it is martial arts, though it might have some amount of GOT type benefits. Martial arts requires a harder type of focus, like in hard qi gong. GOT is more like a soft qi gong. If you observe most any soft chi gung, you will see that the practitioners do not have the intense focus on total body alignment that you will see in martial arts.

 

So, I'm going back a bit on what I said earlier, that one can easily do GOT with martial arts alignments. Some people, or to some degree, yes probably, but for me, there is a point where the alignments are an unnecessary distraction from the naturally occurring feeling of chi. It's more of a soft chi gung, however, it also differs from many other soft chi gungs in the way one moves in the chi, dances with the chi. For softer martial arts, like Taiji, Aikido, and Baguazhang.. no doubt it would help feel the flow behind the movements.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Starjumper]

If you cultivate Yang chi, then according to Kostas, if you just simply "sit down" Yin chi will "automatically" join you as it "wants to be in equal amount wherever Yang chi is." Just sit down, and it automatically joins and settles with the yang chi.

 

This is correct! It is also correct that you can "pull in' yin chi by itself.

 

HOWEVER, this bibliophile fairy talk is enough. Yin chi is really Earth energy and yang chi is really sky or heaven energy.

 

Build a bridge.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Starjumper

[dawei]

JC said he was not a daoist... I would thus venture to say that he would not make claims about whether daoist systems could do things or achieve things differently than how his school/system did. I think he would rise above thinking his school is exclusively doing what no other can. Of course,what he says is how his school/system understands it but it does not mean he thinks all others are wrong.

[Antares]

Hold off for a minute. Is not GoT based on hunyuan qigong? Is not hunyuan qigong taichi chen style qigong indeed? Or you discuss SM only?

Edited November 23, 2013 by Antares

[Friend]

So, back to GOT and Stillness-Movement, I have noticed that I need to loosen up when I do GOT.

Oh oh oh, from my perspective you overlooked something.

From what you said and what I noticed is that you have the focus

on the physical form rather then put the Stillness Movement and

the resulting energy and flow which I noticed you said :"I need to loosen up

when I do GOT".

 

How to explain it.... what energetical it look like.

Here I go. I had a dangerous situation where 10 Kilo cartons where falling from a top of 3metres

on Friday. It was a funny but dangerous situation I took one carton at the side but because the

stuff above where stacked bad three cartons fall from the top towards my head.

The first one I use right Tan Sau, palm facing to ceiling,

with a hip turning to the left to hit it into a whole in the stack

preventing about five items to move in addition.

 

The second one I used a a Palm strike of the right arm

with the finger pointing the left

by just turning the Tan Sau to the left and turning right with the hip.

But I couldnt see that a third carton was hide behind

and was in my blind spot and I move my left arm up

like a thrust in the air. It hits me at the forearm and the weight pushed forward to my head but

had a a feeling that the package move to the side causing me to turn it to a Bong Sau.

The problem was it because I did a Bong Sau the Package spinned and it hit from above on

my forearm and this cause a about 5 cm movement downwards in my shoulder joint while

force was pushed to my left leg. Well it hurt.

 

You may ask why I dont just side step or move elsewhere.

I have on my back a cupboard and I stand in a small way which was 1m broad

and in the way where I could move backwhere two package on the floor and the front

was a bit more narrow.

 

The rest of the day I could move almost normal.

 

When I did GoT I start to do as always, big movements.

But then the left arm who was hit made smaller movements

while right still do its generous big movement.

 

So I just let the left arm move in his small movement capacity

and the right hand as big as always.

With time the capacity increased in left arm

and I gained a 10% back to 90%.

 

This is how energy works.

The arm floats because of the energy

and the force one need is less.

 

In your case Harmonious

you have to move as your body is allowing

You do not need a warm up or loosen up.

The state you are is the real state your energybody is

- showing on the physical body.

If exercise daily as I find one will find that one is as loosen

as one as end the practise before before one start GoT.

 

 

It was mentioned earlier that the alignments for martial arts might be forgotten if one practices GOT. I guess that could happen, but they are two different things, imo. They don't need to be practiced at the same time. You can do GOT and then do martial arts. Forget the martial alignments the same as you would while, say, swimming, and then practice them afterwards.

 

The GoT is bringing out the unnecessary

movements which are stored up in the body.

This impulse are those which hindering the martial

application of the art one choose and may have built up

by practising the choosen Martial Art.

 

This are the impulse that make the opponent instinctive

react. So on Master Class, the master may not get faster

but the opponent seem to not react to the attack.

 

 

When this impulse are expressed they are not

activated anymore and so the direction of the force

in a martial arts application is more clear making

ones Art more clear and so one improve.

 

So the arms may move impaired in different motion range

or different speed with jerking or unusual twist of the body.

With time it looks more and symmetric and with greater range

as the unnecessary movments are gone.

[BaguaKicksAss]

OK soooo, the MP bits got split into the other thread someone created.

 

Then one of the staff hid the new thread.

 

I'm not mod nor steward, but I ask as a member, and a tech who doesn't want to move new posts all day, please please take the day off and don't continue that thread in here, thanks .

[Friend]

Hold on for a minute. Is not GoT based on hunyuan qigong? Is not hunyuan qigong taichi chen style qigong indeed? Or you discuss SM only?

GoT is not based on Hunyuan Qigong.

There are people who are in the Stillnessmovement Lineage

and practise the Hunyuan Tai Chi and its Qigong by Master Feng Zhigang.

These people may give one a better understanding why they do so.

 

Edit: Both Master Feng Zhiganh and Master Wang Jueming

are students from Grandmaster Hu Yaozhen.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Friend

[Brian]

Hold on for a minute. Is not GoT based on hunyuan qigong? Is not hunyuan qigong taichi chen style qigong indeed? Or you discuss SM only?

 

No, Gift of Tao is not based on hunyuan.

 

The system includes both the sitting/standing Stillness-Movement practice and the GoT movement sets (among several other components) so it would be reasonable to discuss any of them here.

[Brian]

GoT is not based on Hunyuan Qigong.

There are people who are in the Stillnessmovement Lineage

and practise the Hunyuan Tai Chi and its Qigong by Master Feng Zhigang.

These people may give one a better understanding why they do so.

 

Edit: Both Master Feng Zhiganh and Master Wang Jueming

are students from Grandmaster Hu Yaozhen.

What he said! ^^^

 

As Friend points out, Master Hu was one of Master Wang's teachers, and Master Wang was one of Michael Lomax's teachers. Both Masters Hu & Wang are part of the lineage (among others...)

[Antares]

But all this was within Feng Zhiqan (Hu Yaozhen) lineage so it should compliment each other

[Brian]

But all this was within Feng Zhiqan (Hu Yaozhen) lineage so it should compliment each other

There is some parallelism as one of the roots of hunyuan is also one of the roots of Stillness-Movement, if that's what you mean.

[Antares]

There is some parallelism as one of the roots of hunyuan is also one of the roots of Stillness-Movement, if that's what you mean.

 

RE:

Can the Practice of Stillness-Movement add to your Martial arts ability?

[Brian]

RE:

 

Can the Practice of Stillness-Movement add to your Martial arts ability?

 

Bear in mind that S-M raises vibrational energy and that GoT is largely "reverse-engineered" from energetic patterns revealed through S-M. There is no explicitly martial aspect to the system.

 

This does not necessarily mean, however, that developing one's energy-body and learning to manipulate energy are not complementary to one's martial arts practice. That's the whole point of the thread.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

What he said! ^^^ As Friend points out, Master Hu was one of Master Wang's teachers, and Master Wang was one of Michael Lomax's teachers. Both Masters Hu & Wang are part of the lineage (among others...)

I think one can see how the energetics (for lack of a better description) of GoT would be influenced from the energetics of master Hu Yaozhen's qigong when watching Hu Yaozhen's daughter, Hu Yuexian, practicing it.

 

 

Compared to a number of qigongs I've watched and practiced, the movements of both Hu Yaozhen's qi gong, and GoT I & II, are both very unique, but also somewhat similar in their uniqueness to other styles. Hu Yaozhen's qi gong seems to be more formless than GoT, but one can see how the movements of GoT would have been in-spirited by this lineage.

 

[....]

 

In your case Harmonious

you have to move as your body is allowing

You do not need a warm up or loosen up.

The state you are is the real state your energybody is

- showing on the physical body.

If exercise daily as I find one will find that one is as loosen

as one as end the practise before before one start GoT.

 

 

 

The GoT is bringing out the unnecessary

movements which are stored up in the body.

This impulse are those which hindering the martial

application of the art one choose and may have built up

by practising the choosen Martial Art.

 

This are the impulse that make the opponent instinctive

react. So on Master Class, the master may not get faster

but the opponent seem to not react to the attack.

 

 

When this impulse are expressed they are not

activated anymore and so the direction of the force

in a martial arts application is more clear making

ones Art more clear and so one improve.

 

So the arms may move impaired in different motion range

or different speed with jerking or unusual twist of the body.

With time it looks more and symmetric and with greater range

as the unnecessary movments are gone.

Thanks for your response.

 

It's not that I do a loosening up exercise before GoT, what I meant is that I have to stop focusing on exactitudes of stance and movement when switching from Tai Chi to GoT because it impairs the naturalness of movement with the movements/energy.

 

Basically, yes, totally know what you mean....

[Harmonious Emptiness]

On second thought again.. it depends how warmed up I am into the martial movement practices. I'm already there then it stays. True as well.

 

For someone who is new to internalizing those differences .. that's basically who I'm trying to answer for. It might help internalize those differences too, doing them more freely and dynamically with the guidance of the chi movements in the set.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[Kempomaster]

OldChi - asked me a question regarding - "What do I mean by control?' In the context of how I used this statement of control -- I was referring to physical control particularly when used in Small-Circle Jujitsu. This physical control is needed to prevent either dislocating an opponents joint or perhaps breaking a bone.

 

So, with the additional ability I have developed through my practice of Stillness-Movement -- this amazing "neigong" has led to internal qi ability that I have been able to utilize in my jujitsu techniques. That is to say, that by applying the proper hold (as taught to my by Professor Wally Jay)and using very little pressure - good control - not brute force- then using internal qi and intent, I get excellent results from these and many other techniques.

 

Control - can also be mental. Keeping a calm mental focus - not getting upset or mad. This is very important in martial arts -- a person needs to keep their cool at all times. The practice of Stillness-Movement leads us to be much calmer and those around us also become much calmer. In many situations I have been able to talk people into being much more calm and reasonable. We would rather have this calm approach then fight - remember, fighting is a last resort -- self-defense only.

 

Hopefully that helps to clear up the concept of control.

 

thanks

 

Brion

Kempomaster

[thelerner]

In the context of how I used this statement of control -- I was referring to physical control particularly when used in Small-Circle Jujitsu. This physical control is needed to prevent either dislocating an opponents joint or perhaps breaking a bone.

We had an interesting and painful 2 or 3 weeks after my Aikido sensei got a hold of Wally Jay's Small Circle Jujutsu DVD. It was fun but we were clearly acting as lab rats. The phrase 'Where there is no pain, there is escape' was pushed into our consciousness.

Edited November 24, 2013 by thelerner

[Kempomaster]

YES - it would be nice to stay on topic without an obvious attempt by someone to derail the thread and direct others elsewhere.

 

So the topic is - Stillness-Movement and does it add to ones Martial Arts ability? Yes discussion of Gift of the Tao would also be appropriate as well as discussion of those Teachers in the Lineage as named several early on.

 

However - those are our topics -- thank you.

[Kempomaster]

I HAD THE PRIVILEDGE OF LEARNING FROM Professor Wally Jay. He made several trips to Indiana beginning around 1985 - the first guy he used as a demo -- hid in the corner -- and that guy sort of looked like me -- so he always used me for his demo from that time on. It's a great way to learn the technique!

 

I hurt for weeks each time -- no bruising - but I knew exactly how to do the technique.. and it wasn't for some time that I realized the full benefit of the gift that Professor Jay had shared with me. Every time he came to Town he would greet me -- oh judo man -- good to see you (I don't know judo - that was the guy that hid in the corner), I will use you to demonstrate. He was truly a Master!

 

Again - add to his techniques -- the internal qi power that you can develop with Stillness-Movement! Look out - just barely touch em - their either on their tippy toes or on the floor.

 

thanks,

 

Brion