Neidan vs Qigong

[opendao]

So when I begin to practice Taoist Yoga (Luk) seriously, should I give up my qigong practices? Or should I do them concurrently?

 

It's better to give up Taoist Yoga practice, there are many mistakes even in Chinese version of that book

 

This is something that confuses me:

 

Is Post-Heaven Jing semen?

 

Not exactly, but semen is a physical form of Post Heaven Jing.

 

What then is Pre-Heaven Jing?

 

Some special variant of Pre-Heaven Qi.

 

According to Taoist Yoga, sexual release converts primordial (positive) chi into jing. (Is it negative or positive jing?) It also converts positive jing into negative jing which is ejaculated. So does positive shen (pre-heaven, primordial) get converted into positive chi? Or negative shen? Or does it not change at all?

 

There are a lot here...

 

1) Yuan shen is not equal to Yang (Positive) Shen.

2) Shen cannot be converted to Qi (or vice versa).

3) Every moment of life we (humans) spend Yuan Qi to restore Houtian Qi (= Wei Qi, and some other energies neede for our body).

4) Same with Shen: we spend it through the process of consciousness.

5) when Yuan Jing exists, humans can (are able to) give birth. So for the sake of simplicity, we can say that Yuan Qi = Yuan Jing. But their relationships are much more complicated.

 

The first step in Nei Dan is to produce positive jing. When this is full, one is to cleanse and purify it in the mco, then sublimate it into positive chi. When positive chi is full, one is to cleanse and purify it in the mco (inner copulation). The inner copulation also sublimates positive chi into positive shen. Is what I just wrote correct?

 

It's a very basic schema, but it's ok to start

[dawei]

Good Qigong is not harmful for Neigong till a certain level, after which such things are prohibited, because they stop further practice in Neidan. My main point that Qigong is not necessary for Neidan. It's possible to achieve Neidan results using Neidan only

 

But I would add that the Neidan short-cut of bypassing Qigong is not easily done by oneself... If one has the destiny to do so, and that implies a master or guidance, then it seems good to pursue. Otherwise, I think the majority should just stay with Qigong.

[Neophyte]

It's better to give up Taoist Yoga practice, there are many mistakes even in Chinese version of that book

 

Hearing that is very dismaying for me to hear! because Taoist Yoga has basically been my "Bible" and framework for everything I've been practicing for the last few years. I really want to fulfill the sixteen steps of TY but now you're telling me that there are many mistakes; so is there a text that is parallel to Taoist Yoga which I can use??

(I also practice qigong, but qigong of course does not provide me the ability to achieve my neidan goals).

 

I have been practicing qigong for several years and I've now calmed my mind and body to the point where I'm ready to undertake practicing Taoist Yoga chapter one. I was planning on sitting down at tsu to fix spirit in it's original cavity (Chapter 1 of TY) and to practice the "swallowing saliva" exercise to restore my generative force (as described in TY).

 

So what are my options if I should just abandon TY?

 

I was really looking forward to beginning Chapter 1!

 

There are a lot here...

 

1) Yuan shen is not equal to Yang (Positive) Shen.

 

 

Seeing what you just wrote is now perplexing me further, but it disagrees with what I had "learned", which is that:

 

prenatal = yang = positive = original.

 

2) Shen cannot be converted to Qi (or vice versa).

 

This is contrary to everything that I've heard. Even here on Tao bums, fellow bums talk about shen degrading into chi, which degrades into jing. The purpose of neidan, is to reverse the flow: Jing is transmuted into chi, which is transmuted into shen.

 

________

 

Neophyte, on 06 Nov 2013 - 14:09, said:

The first step in Nei Dan is to produce positive jing. When this is full, one is to cleanse and purify it in the mco, then sublimate it into positive chi. When positive chi is full, one is to cleanse and purify it in the mco (inner copulation). The inner copulation also sublimates positive chi into positive shen. Is what I just wrote correct?

 

Then opendao replied:

It's a very basic schema, but it's ok to start

 

If that is just the basic schema, where do I go to fully understand everything? Because I want to fully know the process and all the details so that I can implement it.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Neophyte

[dawei]

I was really looking forward to beginning Chapter 1!

 

Under whose guidance or direction? Just reading the text?

[Neophyte]

Under whose guidance or direction? Just reading the text?

 

Yes.

 

The practices in TY are extremely simple, yet extremely deep (by which I mean difficult). The text seems to be arcane and esoteric, but once you completely understand what it says, you'll realize that the first seven chapters are very thoroughly explained. What one must practice is incredibly deep, but the meditations/exercises themselves are inherently simple (not complex). Carefully reading TY does in fact explain everything you'll need to know to fulfill the first seven chapters.

 

And even if I were to only achieve the first seven steps (in this lifetime anyway, haha), I would have achieved producing the light of vitality. This light first appears in chapter 6, and is stabilized in chapter 7.

[baiqi]

Qigong is a very recent term for lots of different techniques. Can be daoyin, tuna, tuina, and even neidan.

 

Neidan is qigong, but not all qigong is neidan (actually very few people do it, and its a good thing, mistakes can have devastating effects!)

Neidan is also part of Xiulian, which is also "alchemy", in the very wide sense.

[dawei]

I have the text and have read it a few times through. I'll PM you.

[opendao]

Though I agree that qigong and neidan work with different sides of the pre and post heaven states, there may be error in saying that they can't work on both.

 

 

To cultivate elixer, the foremost requirement is a pre-heaven state of mind, being without thoughts and desires. Being pure attention. This state of mind can be maintained during qi gong practices, which results in that practice also leading the stability of xing and ming, and retrieving Xian Tian energies.

 

It would be so great if it could work! But sorry, it's an illusion. You write "being without thoughts and desires". But Ma Danyang, who shall support that idea based on the quotes you made, he doesn't really share such approach:

 

 

[The state of] no-mind is not the same as the stupid mindlessness of cats and dogs or trees and rocks. Your task is to maintain your mind within the realm of clarity and purity, and to have no evil thoughts.

 

 

Moreover, Qiu Chuji says:

 

 

As for Buddhist monks who enter into samadhi and die while seated in meditation, and Taoists who enter into stillness and thus send out yin spirits, thes are ghosts of pure vacuity and are not pure yang immortals. They are distantly faint with no appearance and in the end have no place to go to. Why do people who study [the way to immortality] make these mistakes? They especially do not understand that pure yang qi is born after the essense is refined and made into elixir. After you refine the qi and complete the Spirit, the Realized Numinous Divine Immortal transcends the ordinary and enters into sacredness. You abandon your shell and ascend the immortality, and this is called "transcendingand escaping". This is the method of divine immortals that has not changed for a hundred million years!

 

 

 

I know that many will read this and say "no way, it's far to difficult for that," however, this is consistent with the vast majority of Neidan literature written by Quanzhen patriarchs.

 

As we can see, they also write about even more complicated things as just get rid of thoughts.

 

I'll provide some sayings from Ma Danyang below to illustrate my point. There are many more which consistently advocate simply clearing and calming the mind to stabilize energies and cultivate enlightenment, but I'll have to be brief in quotations here.

 

As a person, who learn Ma Danyang school from the current lineage holder of that school, I can give you a small tip: don't rely on separate quotes. Try to catch the complete picture. And if you have doubts, the only way to stop them is to learn from a teacher. I can assure you, that the real practice in this school has nothing in common with idea of "stoping thoughts using meditation".

 

Thus, if cultivating the clarity and attention of mind and spirit, and dissolving self differentiation, is an integral part of a qigong system, that system, imho, could also be called nedian practice.

 

I understand your point, but no, because "cultivating the clarity and attention of mind and spirit" is not the goal and method of Neidan.

[xor]

Good Qigong is not harmful for Neigong till a certain level, after which such things are prohibited, because they stop further practice in Neidan. My main point that Qigong is not necessary for Neidan. It's possible to achieve Neidan results using Neidan only

 

Interesting, that would explain why your thoughts are so opposed to some others here. I can understand the logic behind many of the statements you've made here based on this. Without enough experience however I can't tell who is right or if these are different paths leading to different places, with books I don't know if I could come to a conclusion.

[Antares]

Xor, opendao is referring to the authentic texts and his teacher who is lineage holder in Taoist tradition. Other opinions are based on books and other interpretations made by laymen or people who have some experience in qigong. There is the difference between traditional neidan and it's diluted from which is qigong. Latter uses only terminology but not the method of neidan. Another approach is neigong which can use both methods of neidan and qigong. But qigong for itself is limited and works only with post-heaven qi.

[Vitalii]

Though I agree that qigong and neidan work with different sides of the pre and post heaven states, there may be error in saying that they can't work on both.

 

To cultivate elixer, the foremost requirement is a pre-heaven state of mind, being without thoughts and desires. Being pure attention. This state of mind can be maintained during qi gong practices, which results in that practice also leading the stability of xing and ming, and retrieving Xian Tian energies.

 

I know that many will read this and say "no way, it's far to difficult for that," however, this is consistent with the vast majority of Neidan literature written by Quanzhen patriarchs.

 

I'll provide some sayings from Ma Danyang below to illustrate my point. There are many more which consistently advocate simply clearing and calming the mind to stabilize energies and cultivate enlightenment, but I'll have to be brief in quotations here.

 

from Taoist Meditation, edited and tr. by Thomas Cleary:

 

 

"Learning the Way is a matter of self-enlightenment. Failure to realize enlightenment is caused by ignorance. If you want to break through ignorance, first clean your mind.

This is a matter of purifying and calming it until it is perfectly clear.

When you succeed at this you attain fulfillment. You do not necessarily need to ask another for instruction."

 

"If people can master the path of purity and serenity, that is most excellent. Therefore scripture says, "If people can always be pure and serene, heaven and earth will resort to them."

This "heaven and earth" does not mean the external sky and ground. It refers to the heaven and earth in the body.

Above the solar plexus is called heaven, below the solar plexus is called earth. If the energy of heaven descends and the vessel of earth opens, so that there is harmony above and below, then vitality and energy spontaneously stabilize."

 

"The substance of the Way is no mind, the application is forgetting words.

The basis is softness, the foundation is purity and serenity.

If it is to be carried out among people, it is necessary to be moderate in eating and drinking, to stop musing and mulling, to sit quietly to tune your breathing, and to sleep peacefully to nurture energy.

When your mind does not race, then your nature is stable.

When your body is not belabored, then your vitality is complete.

When your spirit is not disturbed, the elixir crystallizes.

After that you extinguish feelings in emptiness and settlethe spirit in the absolute.

This can be called attainment of the subtle Way without leaving home."

 

 

"Clarity and purity mean clarifying the mind source and purifying the energy ocean.

When the mind source is clear, external things cannot disturb it, so feelings settle and spiritual illumination takes place.

When the energy ocean is pure, wrong desires cannot affect it, so vitality is complete and the belly is full.

So clarify mind as you would clarify water; nurture nonvolatile energy as you would nurture an infant.

When nonvolatile energy blossoms, the spirit is effective.

When the spirit is effective, nonvolatile energy transmutes.

This is effected by clarity and purity. If you practice conscious, deliberate exercises, these are limited techniques.

If you practice the principle of mindless noncontrivance, this is unlimited clear emptiness."

 

 

I'll have to stop there for quotations, but this is the line of teaching I've come across consistently when studying the writings of patriarchs. More often than not, I see them saying that the mechanism is simple like this, and that complicated instructions are wayward paths of neidan.

 

Thus, if cultivating the clarity and attention of mind and spirit, and dissolving self differentiation, is an integral part of a qigong system, that system, imho, could also be called nedian practice.

 

 

You provided some good quotes!

 

I want to add some words about the importance of meditation Da zuo [打坐] and sitting in a motionless calm and silence 靜坐 [Jing zuo].

 

There are dully sitting meditation and true meditation.

 

Wang Chungyang in 重陽立教十五論 said about a true Da zuo [真坐] and a false Da zuo [假坐].

 

Wang Chungyang in 重陽立教十五論 and 重陽真人金關玉鎖訣 said about meditation [打坐] and that meditation is a very important practice. Wang Chungyang said about sitting in a motionless calm and silence 靜坐 [Jing zuo] and that calm and silence are the main principles of a true practice.

 

Ma Danyang in 丹阳神光灿 said about Da zuo [打坐].

 

Qui Chuji in 磻溪集 said about Da zuo.

 

Zhan San Feng in 张三丰祖师参禅歌 said about meditation [打坐] and that meditation is a very important practice.

 

Immortal Zhonglí Quan in Ling Bao Bi Fa (灵宝毕法) said about meditation and that meditation is a very important practice. Zhonglí Quan said about sitting in a motionless calm and silence [静坐] and that calm and silence are the main principles of Inner Alchemy.

 

Zhang San Feng in 道言浅近说 said about calm and silence and that calm and silence are the main principles of a true practice.

 

Lao Jun in 太上清靜經 said about calm and silence and that calm and silence are the main principles of a true practice.

Lao Jun in 太上清靜經 said 如此清靜，漸入真道 - In purity and tranquility, gradually enter the True Dao.

 

Lao Jun in 太上老君内观经 said about calm and silence and that calm and silence are the main principles of a true practice.

 

Sima Chengzhen in 坐忘論 said about meditation and that meditation is a very important practice. Sima Chengzhen said about sitting in a motionless calm and silence and that calm and silence are the main principles of Inner Alchemy.

 

http://www.charlesch...g-Nicholson.pdf - These texts say about sitting in a motionless calm and silence and that meditation is the main thing in the Inner Alchemy.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Thank you Vitali, and for that post.

 

To opendao -- it's not simply absence of thoughts and desires, it's the stabilization of Xing and Ming which can take place from there. People who don't know about Xing and Ming and are unable to recognize internal changes will not get very far at all in neidan, true (and probably neither will I, though not because of this), but if one is able to follow the internal process of transformation, and does not just sit there like a dead log.. this is what I'm talking about as neidan practice which may be part of certain qi gong systems.

[soaring crane]

DNA has material form, Yuan Qi is not in material form. But the scale you use is very close to traditional understanding.

 

I can accept that, thank you. It's much better than other (much, much longer) texts I've read attempting to deny any form of acknowledgment of 'western' understanding of the body and origins of life.

 

But, (at risk of derailing your interesting discussion) I view DNA as a form of intelligence in itself, much greater than the sum total of it's nucleotides. It's a physical manifestation of an already-present energetic power. And we do get half from Mom, half from Dad, after all The model fits too smoothly into the Daoist model to be coincidence. Ditto the glandular/hormonal systems (note that the adrenal glands are called the 'second kidneys' - Nebennieren - in German).

 

What would the Daoist researchers of old have done with an electron microscope, I wonder? (given that they had the electricity to run the thing of course).

[opendao]

Thank you Vitali, and for that post.

 

To opendao -- it's not simply absence of thoughts and desires, it's the stabilization of Xing and Ming which can take place from there. People who don't know about Xing and Ming and are unable to recognize internal changes will not get very far at all in neidan, true (and probably neither will I, though not because of this), but if one is able to follow the internal process of transformation, and does not just sit there like a dead log.. this is what I'm talking about as neidan practice which may be part of certain qi gong systems.

 

There is a problem here: how to follow the internal process of transformation, if there are no methods to start it? You cannot do it by " stabilization of Xing and Ming", all you can stabilize is body and mind, but it's no the same as Ming and Xing. There is no Ming work in "quite sitting" of any kind, that's where all beautiful theories crash usually...

[opendao]

I can accept that, thank you. It's much better than other (much, much longer) texts I've read attempting to deny any form of acknowledgment of 'western' understanding of the body and origins of life.

 

But, (at risk of derailing your interesting discussion) I view DNA as a form of intelligence in itself, much greater than the sum total of it's nucleotides. It's a physical manifestation of an already-present energetic power. And we do get half from Mom, half from Dad, after all The model fits too smoothly into the Daoist model to be coincidence. Ditto the glandular/hormonal systems (note that the adrenal glands are called the 'second kidneys' - Nebennieren - in German).

 

What would the Daoist researchers of old have done with an electron microscope, I wonder? (given that they had the electricity to run the thing of course).

 

It's interesting, I think that in the future the Western science will get into understanding what Qi is, what is Xian Tian Qi and how all that is manifested in the human body. But for Daoism it's not very important, because if you can have a tool that allows you to "see" such subtle things directly, then why you may need a microscope? That's really exciting and that's what Neidan is all about: to understand how the world works on its real level. It's like you can understand how CPU works and how a picture on display is generated after that.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

There is a problem here: how to follow the internal process of transformation, if there are no methods to start it? You cannot do it by " stabilization of Xing and Ming", all you can stabilize is body and mind, but it's no the same as Ming and Xing. There is no Ming work in "quite sitting" of any kind, that's where all beautiful theories crash usually...

 

Balancing yin and yang, firmness without aggression, flexibility without weakness, firmness and flexibility supporting and balancing each other, "When firmness and flexibility are balanced, yin and yang are in harmony; essence and sense merge, water and fire offset each other. This is what is called the inversion of water and fire." - Liu I Ming

 

You can do this sitting, standing, walking. To say one can't work on Ming while sitting is an absolutist fallacy.

 

"The substance of the Way is no mind, the application is forgetting words.

The basis is softness, the foundation is purity and serenity.

If it is to be carried out among people, it is necessary to be moderate in eating and drinking, to stop musing and mulling, to sit quietly to tune your breathing, and to sleep peacefully to nurture energy.

When your mind does not race, then your nature is stable.

When your body is not belabored, then your vitality is complete.

When your spirit is not disturbed, the elixir crystallizes.

After that you extinguish feelings in emptiness and settle the spirit in the absolute.

This can be called attainment of the subtle Way without leaving home."

-Ma Danyang

 

 

 

 

Though, occasionally, translation can be less revealing than the original words, they are also often clear, as in the quotations above. While being part of a school and Daoist community may be exponentially more advantageous, personally, I find the writings of the early masters to be very helpful, much in the same way a Christian values the words of The Bible, while their pastor may help them to live them more fruitfully.

 

Surely, working with a teacher who can guide one is beneficial, and you are very fortunate to be a student in Yuxian lineage. However, what teachers say to students can sometimes be true for those students in the context of what is being taught to them, while being limited in application without the teacher. Thus, the way these things make sense are on a level of understanding that one has with their teacher, speaking in a spiritual understanding beyond words. Yet, in the end, the path is the same as what the early masters tried to make clear in their books. Sometimes these books are vague, but that is often to let one discover the truth rather than be told what it is. The teachers may push the student in the right direction, obligating the student to find their way from there.

Edited November 7, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[opendao]

Balancing yin and yang, firmness without aggression, flexibility without weakness, firmness and flexibility supporting and balancing each other, "When firmness and flexibility are balanced, yin and yang are in harmony; essence and sense merge, water and fire offset each other. This is what is called the inversion of water and fire." - Liu I Ming

 

You can do this sitting, standing, walking. To say one can't work on Ming while sitting is an absolutist fallacy.

 

You are not following what I said: There is no Ming work in "quite sitting" of any kind.

 

"Quite sitting" is a known and well defined method in Qigong (good for heart), in Chan Buddhism (well defined by 6th patriarch) etc. But there is no Ming there, because physically such exercise cannot change anything in Ming, except the fact that you're exhausting your Jing. So you are trying to invent something and then prove it by texts, that were written about other stages, about other methods, or even were addresses to non-initiated people. What's a point of such hard work? Prove to yourself that by sitting you can achieve Neidan results? You can try it without it. It's your health, it's your fate, take a risk and jump.

 

Just remember about this warning:

 

"In the world there is a kind of method of practising «alchemy» in the form of sitting silently, muttering the spells or prayers or their own various practices of sitting. Practitioners of them completely don’t understand that it is absolutely useless and does not lead to any result. This sitting (meditation) is called «枯禪» - a withered contemplation, withered Chan. In the Taoism is often said that "the movement causes Yang" and "the immobility causes Yin", "pure Yang is a Xian (immortal)", "pure Yin is a Gui (a devil, a ghost).” If you sit in Dazuo (a sitting practice in the lotus or a cross-legged practice, a meditation), it is a false calmness, the continuation of this process causes Yin to grow, and the longer the sitting will last, the paler and the flabbier the face will become and the more worse the health and condition of body will be. Then the Yang jing cannot be retained in the body and will be scattered outside.

 

The seeker of the spiritual practice! First think about an amount of the jing you have, so you're not afraid to exhaust it by sitting, to die even without knowing that it will happen from your practice, unknowingly destroy your soul by an unreasonable predilection of a profane teaching? If this happens, it will be truly sad!"

 

Therefore, the true alchemy school does not teach the sitting dazuo, the followers of Wu Chung-xu and Liu Hua-yang do not practice it.

 

Remember: the sitting gives rise to yin, and yin leads to the death.

Edited November 8, 2013 by opendao

[Harmonious Emptiness]

"Quiet sitting" is quiet sitting. "At the height of stillness, there is motion." When motion arises out of stillness, inner work begins. How you navigate the route, whether from wisdom and instinct, or from a master's guidance, requires attention and work/practice, and differentiates "quiet sitting" from neidan.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Harmonious Emptiness

[宁]

If sitting is not reccomended, standing might be what he's pointing at. The effects of standing on the body are hard to be dismissed.

 

Welcome to the Taobums, opendao, and blessing for having the heart to share the truth here! I am in China at the moment (汉语言文字学硕士生） and actively seeking for an authentic teacher in neidan/neigong, if you have any pointers please share.

[Vitalii]

Zhang San Feng in 道言浅近说 said:

"Condense the spirit, means collecting one’s purified mind to enter into the inside.

When the mind is not yet purified, don’t close the eyes, first encourage the mind to come back, be cool and indifferent, then bring the mind to the energy center, this is called condensing the spirit. When the spirit is condensed, it is like sitting on top of a tall mountain and looking at the mountains and waters, like putting up a sky lamp lighting up every darkness and obscurity, this is the meaning of condensing the spirit on emptiness."

 

"See nothingness as the place to keep the mind, see dim silence as home for breath and spirit, again and again, purify and purify, all of a sudden spirit and breathe both forgotten, spirit and energy fused. The Yang suddenly arise like one is drunk".

"first find the center of the body, Zhuzi said “Abide in the center when handling the external”, to abide in the center, one need to bring back the (spirit) light to inside, pay attention to the center, 1.3 inches below the belly button, keep the attention, this is the finding the center of the body";

"During meditation [打坐], the most important is to condense the spirit and regulate the breath, use calmness to bring back order, refrain from assisting and forgetting, none will not gain kungfu by day.

Condensing the spirit and regulating the breath, only need flat mind and harmonized energy. When mind is flatten spirit is condensed, when energy is harmonized breath is regulated".

 

"When start meditating [打坐], one need to quiet both the mind and spirit, empty and silence, in state even ghost or god does not know".

______________
translated by LI Siming

[opendao]

As we could see before, in REAL, orthodox, non-broken lineages (we mentioned Wu-Liu Pai, Yuxian Pai and Zhan Boduan's school at least) there are no Dazuo as the main method. But, for sure, modern interpreters and inventors will continue their dark business to fool people. Just because there is nothing else they can teach and get money for.

 

Neidan is not Dazuo, and has absolutely other methods to work with Xing (Real Nature) and give the results, described as "purity and calmness".

 

Ignorant readers, who have never practised any true methods, and cannot even understand, how it's possible to "work with Yuan Qi without feeling it" (it's about fake Zhen Dao teaching), how they can understand the miraculous work of Ming methods, that automatically, without any efforts, as a post-effect, give to a student the "purity and calmness"?

 

But I think everybody, who has a fate to learn Neidan, already understood all that and will never be fooled by Taoi$$t businessmen.

[opendao]

To finish about the differences between Neidan and Qigong, I'd like to cite the Teacher of Single Yang:

 

Most importantly, the way of alchemy increases the primordial jing, qi and shen of the human body, as opposed to qigong, which can only follow the law of nature, whereby the human body always follows the order of creation and destruction (death).

 

Any qigong is just an accessory method in the preparatory phase of Taoist alchemy and any kind of qigong can’t go beyond the preparatory stage of the elixir way.

 

Link to a full article on our old web-site: http://www.all-dao.com/difference-qigong-alchemy.html

 

Again: any kind of qigong can’t go beyond the preparatory stage of the elixir way!

 

We discussed why, and I hope somebody understood the difference between Xian Tian, reversal process of Neidan, and Hou Tian, direct process used in Qigong.

 

Next week I will try to gather various thoughts about what is good Qigong, and what is a difference between ancient systems and modern Qigong, invented after 1950. It will also cover some questions to me that I couldn't answered yet.

Edited November 8, 2013 by opendao

[Vitalii]

We get Post-Heaven Qi through respiration and nutrition (food). Thus, the source of Post-Heaven Qi is virtually endless, as opposed to the Pre-Heaven energy, which is finite.

Original energy is very subtle and elusive, and usual Qi is coarse and easily changeable. Yuan Qi is very hard to restore. To do it, one must at first find it in ones body and activate, and then begin the process of recovery. Restoration of the Original Energy is of an important concern in practice of Internal Alchemy in Daoist tradition.

Meanwhile, Post-Heaven energy can be restored relatively easily, with a healthy diet, fresh air, exercises of Qigong, which is quite simple as compared to Daoist Alchemy.

Post-Heaven QI and Pre-Heaven Qi differ from each other of in quality, information, methods of work, manifestation etc.

We can collect Post-Heaven QI by use of Tuna, Qigong, Dao Ying. But we can't collect Pre-Heaven Qi by use of abovesaid arts, as this requires the Inner Alchemy.

From my personal experience I can say that there really is a difference, and that it is significant, and practices of original Qi can be obtained only from the Teacher, but not from books or forums.

[opendao]

 

We get Post-Heaven Qi through respiration and nutrition (food). Thus, the source of Post-Heaven Qi is virtually endless, as opposed to the Pre-Heaven energy, which is finite.

Original energy is very subtle and elusive, and usual Qi is coarse and easily changeable. Yuan Qi is very hard to restore. To do it, one must at first find it in ones body and activate

 

again? No humans can feel Yuan Qi, so following this method it's impossible to do that. See theory to understand why.

[opendao]

Wang Chungyang in 重陽立教十五論 said about a true Da zuo [真坐] and a false Da zuo [假坐].

 

Wang Chungyang in 重陽立教十五論 and 重陽真人金關玉鎖訣 said about meditation [打坐] and that meditation is a very important practice. Wang Chungyang said about sitting in a motionless calm and silence 靜坐 [Jing zuo] and that calm and silence are the main principles of a true practice.

 

about Wang Chungyang. He taught Da Zuo as a preparatory method to quite the heart. Wang Chungyang learnt Neidan methods from Liu Dongbin, then he taught some people (Ma Danyang etc) these methods, but created a new system for monks based on Daoist, Buddhists and other methods. Now in many Northern Schools Da Zuo is learnt as a basic preparatory method, but it has no relation to Neidan, as shown previously.

 

Tradition-fakers (hmm, sorry for my French) don't know about it, so easily extrapolated single preparatory method to the entire Neidan legacy and think that it's a "main principle of a true practice".