Neidan vs Qigong

[宁]

If sitting is not reccomended, standing might be what he's pointing at. The effects of standing on the body are hard to be dismissed.

 

Welcome to the Taobums, opendao, and blessing for having the heart to share the truth here! I am in China at the moment (汉语言文字学硕士生） and actively seeking for an authentic teacher in neidan/neigong, if you have any pointers please share.

[Vitalii]

Immortal Zhonglí Quan was a teacher Liu Dongbin.

Immortal Zhonglí Quan in Ling Bao Bi Fa (灵宝毕法) said that meditation is a very important Inner Alchemy practice.
Zhonglí Quan said about sitting cross-legged [盘膝坐] in a motionless calmness and silence [静坐]:

 

1) "是以日出当用艮卦之时，以养元气。

勿以利名动其心，勿以好恶介其意。

披衣静坐，以养其气；

绝念忘情，微作引导。

手脚递互，伸缩三五下，使四体之气齐生，内保元气上升以朝于心府"

2) "又于日入当用干卦之时，以聚元气。
入室静坐，咽气搐外肾"

3) "行金液还丹，当于深密幽房，风日凡人不到之处，烧香迭掌盘膝坐"

4) "终日静坐，其炼如前"

5) "静坐忘机以行此法"

[ChiDragon]

1) "是以日出当用艮卦之时，以养元气。

勿以利名动其心，勿以好恶介其意。

Do not let rich and famous to tempt your heart, do not let good or evil enter your conscience.

披衣静坐，以养其气；
Zazen with a clothes lay on the shoulders to maintain the Chi.

绝念忘情，微作引导。
Get rid of desire and forget your feelings as a good start.

手脚递互，伸缩三五下，使四体之气齐生，内保元气上升以朝于心府"
Cross your hands and legs(Lotus position) ......

Mutually alternate the arms and legs, extend and contract three to five times. Let the Chi to be produced in the arms and legs. Internally, keep the Yuan Chi ascend toward the heart.

盘膝坐 = Lotus position

Edited November 10, 2013 by ChiDragon

[opendao]

 

手脚递互，伸缩三五下，使四体之气齐生，内保元气上升以朝于心府"

Cross your hands and legs(Lotus position) .......... let the Chi to be produced in the arms and legs. Internally, keep the Yuan Chi ascend toward the heart.

 

 

盘膝坐 = Lotus position

 

just curious why you skipped 伸缩三五下?

[opendao]

Immortal Zhonglí Quan was a teacher Liu Dongbin.

 

Immortal Zhonglí Quan in Ling Bao Bi Fa (灵宝毕法) said that meditation is a very important Inner Alchemy practice.

 

 

quote pls where he said that Da Zuo "is a very important Inner Alchemy practice".

[opendao]

Welcome to the Taobums, opendao, and blessing for having the heart to share the truth here! I am in China at the moment (汉语言文字学硕士生） and actively seeking for an authentic teacher in neidan/neigong, if you have any pointers please share.

 

I remember about you, awaiting a response from my teacher. For now I can just say that all real schools are very closed, and don't accept foreigners.

[Vitalii]

披衣静坐，以养其气

披衣 - clothes lay on the shoulders

静坐 - meditation, Jing zuo - sitting in a motionless calmness and silence

以 - to use

养 - nourishing

其 - its, his/her

气 - Qi

 

终日静坐，其炼如前"

终日 - all day long

静坐 - meditation, Jing zuo - sitting in a motionless calmness and silence

其 - its

炼 - to refine, to smelt

如 - such as
前 - before

 

以聚元气。 入室静坐

以 - to use

聚 - to congregate / to assemble / to gather together

元气 - Yuan Qi, Original Qi

入 - to enter
室 - room

静坐 - meditation, Jing zuo - sitting in a motionless calmness and silence

[Vitalii]

打坐 – Dazuo - sit in meditation, sit crosslegged

静坐 – Jinzuo - to meditate / sitting in a motionless calmness and silence / sit quietly

[Wu Ming Jen]

Welcome to the Taobums, opendao, and blessing for having the heart to share the truth here! I am in China at the moment (汉语言文字学硕士生） and actively seeking for an authentic teacher in neidan/neigong, if you have any pointers please share.

Visit us on Wudang Mountain at the Wudang Taoist Kung Fu Academy next to Purple Heaven Palace. We have foreigners from around the world that come and go. Classes for internal alchemy are more expensive but given the exchange rate on the dollar its affordable. Good Luck

[Vitalii]

金液还丹，当于深密幽房，烧香迭掌盘膝坐

 

金 - golden
液 - fluid
还 - to return
丹 - elixir

 

当 - to be
于 - in
深 - deep
密 - secret
幽 - quiet
房 - room / house

 

烧 - to burn

香 - fragrant sticks
迭掌 - to clasp hands / to put one's palms together
盘膝坐 - sitting cross-legged

[ChiDragon]

just curious why you skipped 伸缩三五下?

 

It is because I am not sure what the 三五(3 and 5) are referring to.

Edited November 10, 2013 by ChiDragon

[宁]

I remember about you, awaiting a response from my teacher. For now I can just say that all real schools are very closed, and don't accept foreigners.

 

Oh I thought you just missed it

Thank you for making the effort of asking your 师父

[宁]

Visit us on Wudang Mountain at the Wudang Taoist Kung Fu Academy next to Purple Heaven Palace. We have foreigners from around the world that come and go. Classes for internal alchemy are more expensive but given the exchange rate on the dollar its affordable. Good Luck

 

Thanks, I will visit Wudang prolly next Spring.

Don't want to come across as a blunt knucklehead, but as far as I know, real teachings are not to be sold, not sure what exactly you guys teach to foreigners. Expensive is not okay either, I'm just a student, not a businessman

[ChiDragon]

打坐 – Dazuo - sit in meditation, sit crosslegged

静坐 – Jinzuo - to meditate / sitting in a motionless calmness and silence / sit quietly

The difference in the two is:

The former is in a lotus position, the latter may not have to be in the lotus position. Thus one may sit on a chair. However, one must keep in mind, deep breathing should be taken place while sitting. That is the whole purpose of meditation.

Edited November 10, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Vitalii]

 

It is because I am not sure what the 三五(3 and 5) are referring to.

 

手脚递互，伸缩三五下

 

手脚 - hand and leg

递 - / to pass on / to gradually increase or decrease

互 - mutual

 

伸缩 - to lengthen and shorten

三五下 - three or five times

[ChiDragon]

手脚递互，伸缩三五下

 

手脚 - hand and leg

递 - / to pass on / to gradually increase or decrease

互 - mutual

 

伸缩 - to lengthen and shorten

三五下 - three or five times

 

Thanks Vitalii. You know your Chinese well. It was the simplified character, 递, that threw me off. Now it has come to my senses.

 

手脚递互，伸缩三五下

Mutually alternate the arms and legs, extend and contract (them) three to five times.

 

Edited November 10, 2013 by ChiDragon

[opendao]

Let's continue.

In spite of the differences, all _real_ Neidan schools share the same principles and theories.

We've already discussed shortly Houtian and Xiantian.

Another important thing is about 2 major parts of Neidan work:

1. Ming Gong

2. Xing Gong

Ming is "fate" and Yuan Qi.

Xing is "nature" and Yuan Shen.

Usually a student starts with some preparatory exercises, that resemble Qigong and Dazuo. Still even here usually there is a difference in the mechanism, Neidan schools prefer Xiantian here because it's much effective.

Then a person uses secret Ming methods to replenish Yuan Jing and refine it to Yuan Qi. This is the phase of Ming.

Next is Xing work, where Yuan Qi is used to power up Shen-Spirit and transform it to immortal Yang Shen.

Preventing quotes from Quanzhen teachings, I should say that though northern schools declare "Xing then Ming" approach, in reality their initial phase is Xin (heart) work, that has Da Zuo as one of the method. But even there Da Zuo has many details, not described in books.

Obviously, no "meditation as the main method".

And it's a big mistake to think that Ming is Body or Ming can be restored in the meditation. MING is NOT A BODY.

MING cannot be restored using MEDITATION. MING cannot be restored using physical or Qigong exercises. Attentive readers can already understand why. Stubborn people without De will continue to insist on false methods.

Another stupid mistake is to rely on books. First, Ming methods are covered just in theory and it's impossible to guess, how it works. Second, different books assumes different things. For example, some books can discuss Neidan in terms of Waidan (external alchemy), or vice versa, without any tip about the real subject. How can somebody understand it without a teacher? That's why lineages and teachers are so important in Neidan - it's a guarantee that you won't be fooled.

I described shortly the correct method of Neidan. Comparing with Qigong, we can see that Qigong cannot be used beyond the preparatory phase of Neidan.

Teacher of Single Yang:

 

 

Any qigong is just an accessory method in the preparatory phase of Taoist alchemy and any kind of qigong can’t go beyond the preparatory stage of the elixir way.

 

[Vitalii]

 

Thanks Vitalii. You know your Chinese well. It was the simplified character, 递, that threw me off. Now it has come to my senses.

 

 

Thank you, ChiDragon

I participate in the creation of the largest Chinese-Russian and Russian-Chinese online dictionaries BKRS and Zhonga.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

I don't mind if I enter rebirth in a similar surroundings. No being is created for the purpose of that being. All beings are created for the purposes of other beings. As an Immortal or human being, that's not going to change, so I might as well live my days for what they are rather than trading them in for an unreliable promise on the future. Sorry if that offends your path, but your faith ought to be strong enough not to depend on another person having faith in it.

[ChiDragon]

 

Let's continue.

In spite of the differences, all _real_ Neidan schools share the same principles and theories.

We've already discussed shortly Houtian and Xiantian.

Another important thing is about 2 major parts of Neidan work:

1. Ming Gong

2. Xing Gong

 

Ming is "fate" and Yuan Qi.

Xing is "nature" and Yuan Shen.

 

Did you tell me that your teacher had verified all these of what you are feeding us......???

Edited November 10, 2013 by ChiDragon

[opendao]

 

Did you tell me that your teacher had verified all these of what you are feeding us......???

 

ChiDragon, you can read such things in any popular Chinese book about Neidan. If you see anything that bothers you, we can discuss, but honestly I am not feeding you, your cup is already full.

Edited November 10, 2013 by opendao

[opendao]

I don't mind if I enter rebirth in a similar surroundings. No being is created for the purpose of that being. All beings are created for the purposes of other beings. As an Immortal or human being, that's not going to change, so I might as well live my days for what they are rather than trading them in for an unreliable promise on the future. Sorry if that offends your path, but your faith ought to be strong enough not to depend on another person having faith in it.

 

It's ok, but I just want to say that in Neidan nobody cares about rebirth. It's possible to change anything during this life.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

It's ok, but I just want to say that in Neidan nobody cares about rebirth. It's possible to change anything during this life.

But still, when was the last time you heard of anyone achieving yangshen immortality in the last 400 years? I prefer to set goals with higher chances of success before moving on to higher ones, but I'm not saying it couldn't be done with ideal circumstances and total dedication.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Sounds like you rather use up your life helping others.

 

Not as a doormat, but yes, as an ultimate goal, I think it would be more satisfactory in terms of short term (not isolating one's self their entire life in hopes that the promise of immortality will be fulfilled), and long term (doing something for a higher purpose, instead of the futility of serving illusions - our selves-as-separate-beings.

[opendao]

But still, when was the last time you heard of anyone achieving yangshen immortality in the last 400 years? I prefer to set goals with higher chances of success before moving on to higher ones, but I'm not saying it couldn't be done with ideal circumstances and total dedication.

 

If you ask me, there are records in our school about the achievements of every student. And even in the previous century, we know many cases like that. Yes, nobody publishes it in newspapers. But it's more then real. In our school you can meet with such people after you reach some level and reveal your doubts.