Neidan vs Qigong

[damdao]

Yeah there is absolutely nothing at all wrong with wanting to learn from these schools.

It is hilarious what happens in these debates, the one who preached celibacy, virtue, etc. wrote in nearly all the posts about the penis, and the one accused of lack of virtue was always pointing at a nonphysical process. In the same way, these schools were accused of being aggressive and now if a young fella want to study there he could feel bullied for that.

And for the record, I want to study in those schools too, so theres one more in the list and counting. And many more even if they don't want to study neidan, at least now have a better conceptual tool in order to judge the differences between neidan and qigong, and this was the goal of the OP.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Daeluin]

Sounds like now your task is to stabilize, refine, and evolve your experience. Best wishes!

If you run into trouble with this, I recommend chapter 4.

Edited February 10, 2015 by Daeluin

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[JinlianPai]

Now of the golden spirit immortals the earth is very important.

 

Vast inner luminesce just like the earth. The earth purifies you and strengthens you. If you get the rainbow body without the attainment of the earth as well you wont be able to hold it.

 

Remember the earth grounds and strengthens you. The chi of the earth very powerful if you attain the rainbow body with out relying on very deep earth chi you will end up carrying around a rock or precoious metal to feed your rainbow body......

 

 

 

 

Lets go into this a bit more...

 

The Real Golden dragon of the earth is a powerful attainment...

 

 

The golden dragon is the guardian of earth his whole dominain is earth. The legend of the golden dragon is that he can go anywhere nothing stops him.........

 

The is the combination of all the other elements he is their source.

 

Now where the tibetans got it wrong was by using sunlight just like baolin wu and the 9 palaces solar qigong. Yes you can a level of rainbow body with it but that isnt the attainment...If its done that way you just fade away because it wasnt built right.

 

Now with the real golden dragon attainment who can go anywhere in the earth infact the earth strengthens him...

 

And it is this fact that the golden dragon can hold his position.

 

 

Look if your into chinese astrology then you know about this.

 

Then later you find out there are practices for each guardian.

 

Then you learn what the attainments mean.

 

And the Golden Dragon of the earth is the most powerful just like everyone says.

 

But heres the disconnect.

 

The golden dragon i was taught about is much much more powerful than what I heard on here.

 

He is the guardian of earth if he comes knocking on your door it doesnt matter what sect your from you cant beat him for the whole fact is he gets a constant and non stop empowerment from the earth.

 

The Gum Long meditations have long been lost.

 

If you attain the real golden dragon attainment you dont need a rainbow body doctor or anything like that.

 

The earth heals you.

 

The guardian of earth by attainment and by spiritual right...

 

So someone of wudang which is the turtle snake, or shaolin which is whiter tiger and azure dragon, or lunghushan which is tiger and dragon....Doesnt matter your the golden dragon anyone who is schooled in chinese astrology and taoist alchemy knows what that means.

 

Given my theory of the golden dragon of the earth as indicated by chinese feng shui, myth and astrology. I decided to look into the element of gold an found that it sunk into the core of the planet.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold

gold present in the Earth sank into the planetary core

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_Dragon

The Chinese national flag from 1889-1912 is also called the Yellow Dragon Flag

Once you know this then you understand the chinese flag more...

 

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[Brian]

<snip>

...besides you compare a sun with a black hole!

<derail>

I am pages and pages behind in this thread (I'm still back on Sunday) but I wanted to point out that a black hole IS a sun. It is what happens when a collapsing star is sufficiently massive to overcome quantum degeneracy pressure. A collapsing sun the size of our Sun becomes a white dwarf (and eventually cools into a black dwarf), a sun a couple times the size of ours becomes a neutron star and a sun much bigger than that becomes a black hole (not necessarily a singularity but with a physical radius of less than 2Gm/c².

 

There are other mechanisms by which a black hole could be created, mind you, including primordial black holes spawned during the big bang -- and there are other star types and forms of degenerate matter which almost certainly exist -- but stellar evolution is the most straight-forward method.

</derail>

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[blue eyed snake]

I was pointing to his absurd claim, that it was a "common" experience.

 

It indeed felt as I was floating in a vibrating field of energy, the psychokinetic wave rushing up and down in my body and the experience of emptiness (or rather "empty force") extinguished all physical awareness. But most important, the macropsychokinetic effect (which was watched by an astounded witness) was more than significant (on an "Exorcist"-like level!) and would have catapulted scientists in a frenzy immedeately, if I had demonstrated this effect to scientists in a lab under lab conditions.

 

hmm,

 

I don't think that scientists would have gone into a frenzy, an able neurologist would probably have diagnosed you with pseudo-epilepsy. A relatively common condition in people suffering from prolonged stress.

 

I've experienced this several times in the first months of my qigongtraject. And one of the first times was just about as strong as what you describe. Happily I was laying on a soft mattress and not on a hard medical bench.

 

My teacher is very dry about it, he says it's simply blockages getting removed, like sneezing. Good riddance with old shit so to say. He would say it is common.

 

Probably not what you want to hear...

 

Bes

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[opendao]

I've experienced this several times in the first months of my qigongtraject. And one of the first times was just about as strong as what you describe. Happily I was laying on a soft mattress and not on a hard medical bench.

 

My teacher is very dry about it, he says it's simply blockages getting removed, like sneezing. Good riddance with old shit so to say. He would say it is common.

 

yes, it's very common and happens very often (even with people who practice nothing). Teachers are dry about it because they value only results, not experiences.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[JinlianPai]

oh and then theres this....

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=KF9lxZxj1PQC&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=dragon+rainbow+body&source=bl&ots=HDSKoD5R8F&sig=11kc26SdkEjBVTo7PHRfO97FjqU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rIvaVInTOoq0sATc5YHQDQ&ved=0CFoQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=dragon%20rainbow%20body&f=false

This dragon body will carry us through the bardos at the time of death. Tibetan monks refer to it as the rainbow body of light. This is the body that feeds upon the grids of the energy force field surrounding the earth, needing no other nourishment.

[opendao]

The point I wanted to remark is that in Daoism yin-yang are not static things, and most of time we have to bear in mind what yang and what yin is, in which phase or moment of its development is, how is the relation inside-outside, function-form, etc. Daoism is not binary mode of thinking, I presume.

So, Lu Dong Ping (the very same author of the SGF) ask to his master:

"The way of ch'ien is manifested in heaven and it follows the function of yang. Since yang governs ascent, how can it sink and interact with earth? The way of k'un is manifested in earth and it follows the function of yin. Since yin governs descent, how can it rise and interact with heaven?..."

The Tao of Health, Longevity..., translated by Eva Wong, p. 38

 

So, although heaven and earth seem to be yin or yang, in its interactions for the purpose of alchemy they have to follow certain movements that perhaps are not the obvious ones.

 

yes, and that's where the border between qigong and neidan is: neidan uses the reversal "movement", and the way goes against "normal" yin and yang directions. Qigong (as a broad term for all postheaven practices) uses the natural "movement" to achieve its goals.

 

In the modern world qigong very often doesn't work as it is supposed to do. The main reason is the attempts to map neidan model to postheaven practices.

 

The traditional qigong exercises we practice in our school, they are necessary to restore postheaven mechanism, so it doesn't create problems when neidan practice starts. "Clean heart" is the good short descriptions of this "zero step", but it involves much more then "moral aspects" or "calmness". All these techniques are not secret at all, but many people disregard details, learn by books and are lazy to practice, so they cannot get even to this level.

 

One of the students in our school told me that I have to highlight the following: traditional qigong, yangsheng exercises are GOOD and have their own important role in preparing to Neidan. But none of the qigong exercises can lead to the results described in Neidan books.

 

To understand that, you need to realize Xiantian and Houtian difference. It needs time and efforts, but it is the only way I know.

[ralis]

oh and then theres this....

 

https://books.google.com/books?id=KF9lxZxj1PQC&pg=PA180&lpg=PA180&dq=dragon+rainbow+body&source=bl&ots=HDSKoD5R8F&sig=11kc26SdkEjBVTo7PHRfO97FjqU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=rIvaVInTOoq0sATc5YHQDQ&ved=0CFoQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q=dragon%20rainbow%20body&f=false

 

 

This dragon body will carry us through the bardos at the time of death. Tibetan monks refer to it as the rainbow body of light. This is the body that feeds upon the grids of the energy force field surrounding the earth, needing no other nourishment.

 

That keeps one on the earth plane which would lead one to believe that existence is the end of the universe. Reshad Feild a Sufi master claimed in a talk on Youtube that 14 dimensions exist. Aurobindo and The Mother stated the same number.

[Wells]

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Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[JinlianPai]

That keeps one on the earth plane which would lead one to believe that existence is the end of the universe. Reshad Feild a Sufi master claimed in a talk on Youtube that 14 dimensions exist. Aurobindo and The Mother stated the same number.

 

Well it is my contention that there is a vast difference between rainbow body and Golden dragon body.

 

An to be honest doing this research and the things I found with it kind of weirded me out at first.

 

But for it kind of seems written on the wall that one needs a very deep earth chi for the golden dragon body.

 

Now you can open all 9 palaces in the head like baolin wu or can do another method that does upper dantien breathing or bring sunlight into the body and imagine different colors of sunlight coming in your body to attain the rainbow body and so forth.

 

But thats not Golden Dragon.

 

 

The energy of the Golden Dragon works with what i heard some call the "earth star" or the center of the earth.

 

All of the research ive done has come to one conclusion...

 

That the Golden Dragon is not the same as the rainbow body, that it uses a very deep earth chi, that it is long sought after.

 

To put it bluntly its the real rainbow body hes called the guardian of earth because nothing can stop him he can go anywhere in the earth.

 

The more powerful he gets the stronger his connection to the earth(source of his power)becomes.

Edited February 10, 2015 by JinlianPai

[ralis]

Well it is my contention that there is a vast difference between rainbow body and Golden dragon body.

 

An to be honest doing this research and the things I found with it kind of weirded me out at first.

 

But for it kind of seems written on the wall that one needs a very deep earth chi for the golden dragon body.

 

Now you can open all 9 palaces in the head like baolin wu or can do another method that does upper dantien breathing or bring sunlight into the body and imagine different colors of sunlight coming in your body to attain the rainbow body and so forth.

 

But thats not Golden Dragon.

 

 

The energy of the Golden Dragon works with what i heard some call the "earth star" or the center of the earth.

 

All of the research ive done has come to one conclusion...

 

That the Golden Dragon is not the same as the rainbow body, that it uses a very deep earth chi, that it is long sought after.

 

To put it bluntly its the real rainbow body hes called the guardian of earth because nothing can stop him he can go anywhere in the earth.

 

The more powerful he gets the stronger his connection to the earth(source of his power)becomes.

 

Very limited given the vastness of the universe.

[JinlianPai]

Very limited given the vastness of the universe.

The yellow dragon is also referred to the center of the universe there is nothing more powerful than him.

 

http://elderthink.com/spirituality/astrology/chinese_astrology/yellow-dragon/yellow-dragon.php

The Yellow Dragon is represented by the Earth, as the source of all the elements and the center of the universe

 

 

Every taoist sect uses the energy of certain stars and the earth to cultivate themselves.

 

Some use the north star some use the orion constellation.

 

So what does this pic tell you.

 

 

The guardians represent elements in the universe as well.

Edited February 10, 2015 by JinlianPai

[LaoZiDao]

The Mo Pai use the "false method" (at least according to your quoted list of false methods).

 

Master Zhongliquan's list of false methods. You know, the teacher of Master Ludongbin, Ludongbin being the teacher of Wangchongyang.. the founder of the Quanzhen, teacher of 7 Masters? Not that they have any idea what they are talking about huh.

 

Or we can go with "facts"

 

"(based on my analysis and interpretation of the statements and instructions in The Secret Of The Golden Flower)" - ZOOM

[ralis]

The yellow dragon is also referred to the center of the universe there is nothing more powerful than him.

 

http://elderthink.com/spirituality/astrology/chinese_astrology/yellow-dragon/yellow-dragon.php

 

 

Every taoist sect uses the energy of certain stars and the earth to cultivate themselves.

 

Some use the north star some use the orion constellation.

 

So what does this pic tell you.

 

Yellow dragon is the center of the universe? Are you serious? The church during the middle ages and into the 1600's taught that the earth was the center of the known universe until Galileo challenged that false notion. I can't believe what some people believe in this day and age.

 

BTW, the church burned people at the stake for questioning established doctrine.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ralis

[JinlianPai]

Yellow dragon is the center of the universe? Are you serious? The church during the middle ages and into the 1600's taught that the earth was the center of the known universe until Galileo challenged that false notion. I can't believe what some people believe in this day and age.

 

BTW, the church burned people at the stake for questioning established doctrine.

Man you need to study chinese astrology and feng shui

 

[ralis]

Man you need to study chinese astrology and feng shui

 

 

Stop insulting my intelligence! The earth or it's yellow dragon is not the center of the universe.That view is anthropocentric.