Neidan vs Qigong

[JinlianPai]

The Chinese characters for Golden Flower (Jinhua 金华) hide the word light (光) in it. The lower part of the character for Gold (金) and the upper part for the character Flower (华) make up the character for Light (光)

 

 

Link: http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/hide.html

 

Yes thats my point exactly

[Brian]

In regard to offshoot qigong and new agers in general (from Cultivating Perfection: Mysticism and Self-Transformation in early Quan Zhen (pp80-1)):

 

 

Definition of mysticism from same book:

 

 

Sounds very preheaven.

 

Interestingly, a channeled teaching called the Michael Teachings lists Jesus, Laozi, Buddha, Ra, Krishna, Lilith (Hebrew), and 7 others as those who for a part of their lives were bodily hosts of the Infinite Soul, which is considered an incarnation of the Tao.

 

 

Anyway. Qigong does not interact with the mystical. True Neidan from the original teachings of Laozi does.

 

I'm thinking that maybe the only true approaches to this "trans-human reality" (preheaven) have to have come from these incarnations of Tao, and that others would have no way to access them. Not that the all the other incarnations must have passed on teachings of immortality, I can't speculate much there. Though Buddha is apparently another.

Were the 7 others named?

[LaoZiDao]

are you serious? There is no word Jing in that phrase!

 

祖师曰：自然曰道，道无名相，一性而已，一元神而已。

 

I think we can nullify your "evidences" after that or you will insist you've "studied very intensely and openly the source text of The Secret Of The Golden Flower "?

 

I am still waiting to hear a response on this, as it was conveniently ignored by ZOOM. This kind of mistake can put doubts on anything you have to say ZOOM, you should have some response to this, at least admit you were wrong. People like you blindly read English translations of scriptures and take them as ultimate truth...Not even 100% the translations fault here, its your own interpretations, lack of a teacher and linage which is most of the problem.

 

You accuse Opendao of using "tricks" by actually being able to translate some Chinese, man its not tricks its called actually being able to read and understand a tradition which is being discussed here, also not only understanding but having years of experience working with Neidan.

 

If you think Neidan is as simple as reading a website called thesecretofthegoldenflower.com without consulting a teacher and understanding the scriptures in its original form (Chinese language), you could not be more wrong. You know there is so much room for error in translations to English?

 

https://m.facebook.com/notes/dzogchen-khenpo-choga-rinpoche/auspicious-news-my-teacher-lama-karma-attains-rainbow-body/10151794778007773/

 

Man do you know what it means to die?

 

Qi separate from Shen = Death .. so this is Tianxian for you?

 

Let's check what Tianxian Zhongliquan had to say about this kind of 'incorrect' practices which you take is Tianxian. BTW this crap is common, and any real achievement would not be posted on Facebook

 

So we will start with some trickery, using Chinese characters.

 

吕曰：“大道难知、难行之理如何？”

Lu said : Great Dao is difficult to understand and realise, what is the reason?

 

钟曰：“以傍门小法，易为见功，而欲流多得。互相传授，至死不悟，遂成风俗，而败坏大道。

Zhong Said: By means of depending on the ways the of small method's, seeming easy and appear to have good results, and desire to circulate and spread to many. Mutually passing on these false methods, being incorrigibly stubborn and benighted to the end of their days, succeeding to become popular and common practices as well as undermining and corrupting Great Dao.

 

I didn't translate them all, just a few, and highlighted some relevant ones:

 

有斋戒者、

those who abstain from meat and wine adopting vegetarian diet,

有休粮者、

those who stop eating grain and fast from food for periods of time,

有断味者、

those who abstain from the flavours,

有禅定者、

those who meditate and stabilise the mind,

有不语者、

those who don't talk,

有存想者、

those who preserve thoughts,

有绝累者、

those who go without rest,

有开顶者、

those who open the crown of the head [third eye],

有缩龟者、

those who withdraw and retract the tortoise (genitalia),

有绝迹者、

those who cut off relations,

有看读者、

those who recite Scriptures or chants,

有定息者、

those who stabilise or fix the breath,

有吐纳者、

those who practice Tu Na, exhale [the old] and inhale [the new],

有布施者、

those who donate to temples and charity's,

有供养者、

those who make offerings and sacrifices to gods and deities,

有救济者、

those who provide aid, relief and salvation

有入山者、

those who enter the mountain [leave their wives and family],

有识性者、

those who realise only Xing

有不动者、

those who are motionless,

有受持者、

those who accept and maintain blind faith

 

On false methods:

Zhongliquan said: By beginning cultivation and not realising the Great Dao, as well as desire to attain the goal quickly. Cultivation can be compared to a still sitting tree, the heart as if cold and like dead ashes, Shen internally conserved, not to scatter the mind aspirations and concentration. By calmness and stabilising therefore the Yin Shen can release, it is the clear spirit of a Ghost, pure Yin, without Yang, it is Immortal. Because using the mind aspirations and concentration the Yin spirit wont scatter, for these reasons we call it Gui Xian. Although its called Xian, it's actually a Gui (ghost \ devil \ spirit of dead).

 

From ancient times til now Buddhist disciples, hard-working diligent in their practice so therefore they call it 'attained the Dao', truly ridiculous and laughable.

 

Also for the record, Opendao's "dogma" is also the same things my teacher is saying and teaching. At least my dogma works, which is more then you can say. Having never had a Neidan teacher, and probably never will at this rate.

 

 

[JinlianPai]

The Chinese characters for Golden Flower (Jinhua 金华) hide the word light (光) in it. The lower part of the character for Gold (金) and the upper part for the character Flower (华) make up the character for Light (光)

 

 

Link: http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/hide.html

 

Now you dont think that the golden lotus practices was given to the shaolin to hide and protect them......

 

There couldnt possibly be a golden lotus method or fa.....

[Wells]

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Edited February 8, 2015 by ZOOM

[Yae]

Were the 7 others named?

 

Mhm:

 

"[MEntity] The list of human Infinite Soul Manifestations would be:

[MEntity] With approximate time frames -

Ti'AT (female - 4,000,000 BCE),

Khro'Te (male child - 2,000,000 BCE),

Ker (female - 1,000,000 BCE),

Sonad, Kin, Serep (brothers - 700,000 BCE),

Tinet, TenTen, Tia (sisters - 500,000 BCE),

Shia (female - 150,000 BCE),

Kendre (female - 75,000 BCE),

"Ra" (male - 6,000 BCE),

"Krishna" (6,000 BCE)

"Lilith" (female - 4,000 BCE),

Lao Tzu (male - 4,000 BCE),

"Buddha" (male - 500 BCE),

"Christ" (male - 5 BCE). "

 

https://www.truthloveenergy.com/explore/blogs/841/22/list-of-infinite-souls

Edited February 8, 2015 by Bluemind

[dawei]

Now you dont think that the golden lotus practices was given to the shaolin to hide and protect them......

 

There couldnt possibly be a golden lotus method or fa.....

 

I've got no idea about what is golden lotus practices... but it seems like an interesting connection if you could explain it... but probably a new thread.

[JinlianPai]

Very powerful spirits that can aid your internal cultivation. Thanks for sharing.

anytime man im trying to figure this out myself as well.

[Wells]

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Edited February 8, 2015 by ZOOM

[dawei]

anytime man im trying to figure this out myself as well.

 

FYI: Rainbowvein is a lady

[LaoZiDao]

Are you opendao's tag team partner who just got PM'ed by him to do the next shift?

 

 

No, I am not. I have no relation to Opendao. I'm from the other side of the globe

 

Can you answer to anything I said or just troll?

[JinlianPai]

FYI: Rainbowvein is a lady

ok sorry rainbowvein.

 

Yeah I dont state anything with authority I just read books and listen to lectures and am trying to connect the dots like everyone else.

 

but into my research of chinese astrology and lore I seen the golden dragon come up time and time again.

 

So please take any info I post and do your own research id love to hear it.

[LaoZiDao]

Why don't you show your BS "false method list" to John Chang?

As I pointed out before, the Mo Pai method is also on the list, what disproves it already as BS!

 

Just shows you have no idea of anything that Neidan is about. End of story.

[dawei]

Just shows you have no idea of anything that Neidan is about. End of story.

 

This is what gets threads towards the PIT...

 

 

 

To be fair... is Mo Pai on the false list?

 

ANd if so...

 

Do you agree?

 

If yes or now, explain why (is Mo Pai not neidan, etc)

[Wells]

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Edited February 8, 2015 by ZOOM

[opendao]

That may be... and why I don't like to pander to neidan terminology.

 

My usage background is in Medical Qigong... and transmission/reception of divine light energy.

 

I gave my usage and experience and did a bad job of trying to tie it to neidan seeking results.

 

no probs. Btw, I've seen your posts about Taiyi, maybe you have some thoughts about the title of the book being discussed here (Golden Flower)?

[LaoZiDao]

I understand! So a personal issue because I disproved your buddy Cozma single-handedly!

You know, Wu-Liu Pai members post here that Liping is only seen as a Qigong teacher in China!

So as you only learned Qigong,

I most likely know much more about Neidan than you do!

 

Yet you disagree with Quanzhen scriptures? You don't agree with Zongliquan, Ludongbin, Liuyiming... etc.. so just which Daoist doctrine do you understand and agree with? if you read ANY Daoist scripture (not butchered by English translations), all your false assumptions about Neidan will be corrected on a textual level very easily.

 

But you can't even be bothered to learn anything or go anywhere to learn anything, just read some crap that is handed to you on a golden platter, which is nice and easy to read in English. To understand Neidan it takes a lot of work, time, dedication, persistence and practice. Not to mention having a teacher, but it's clear why you don't have a teacher anyway.

 

You're not even looking.

 

You know it all

[Wells]

.

Edited February 8, 2015 by ZOOM

[ralis]

 

Yet you disagree with Quanzhen scriptures? You don't agree with Zongliquan, Ludongbin, Liuyiming... etc.. so just which Daoist doctrine do you understand and agree with? if you read ANY Daoist scripture (not butchered by English translations), all your false assumptions about Neidan will be corrected on a textual level very easily.

 

But you can't even be bothered to learn anything or go anywhere to learn anything, just read some crap that is handed to you on a golden platter, which is nice and easy to read in English. To understand Neidan it takes a lot of work, time, dedication, persistence and practice. Not to mention having a teacher, but it's clear why you don't have a teacher anyway.

 

You're not even looking.

 

You know it all

 

You read the texts in the original language? Are you a teacher?

[dawei]

no probs. Btw, I've seen your posts about Taiyi, maybe you have some thoughts about the title of the book being discussed here (Golden Flower)?

 

I saw this connection too... but they used different characters: Taiyi （太一）vs Taizhe (太乙).

 

I have pressed the idea that Taiyi is even pre-Dao... I don't get the sense that Taizhe is pre-Dao but post-Dao (or concurrent). I've not seen Taizhe used in other texts so I would need to explore it more.

 

Dao is an 'arising' concept... it arises In this cycle of creation and consciousness.

[opendao]

I understand! So a personal issue because I disproved your buddy Cozma single-handedly!

Btw:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32561-the-teaching-of-quanzhen/?p=498703

 

You have Qigong teacher, no Neidan teacher!

 

Just for the record, LaoziDao's teacher has no relation to Wang Liping...

[opendao]

I saw this connection too... but they used different characters: Taiyi （太一）vs Taizhe (太乙).

 

I have pressed the idea that Taiyi is even pre-Dao... I don't get the sense that Taizhe is pre-Dao but post-Dao (or concurrent). I've not seen Taizhe used in other texts so I would need to explore it more.

 

yes, hard topic. But it seems it's very far from "creative" as ZOOM assumed based on English translation

[Wells]

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Edited February 8, 2015 by ZOOM

[dawei]

yes, hard topic. But it seems it's very far from "creative" as ZOOM assumed based on English translation

 

I think it points to the difference in Taiyi and Taizhe.

 

Taiyi - primal illumination (big bang); original light and fire... Pure Unity

 

Taizhe - creates life

 

TO me, the latter is Yuan Shen, Yuan, Qi, Yuan Jing in motion... creating... but already split up.

 

IMO, and this is probably unfair, I think Taizhe was meant to represent Taiyi (of historical lore) but it was misrepresented.

[Wells]

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Edited February 8, 2015 by ZOOM