Neidan vs Qigong

[Yae]

Is it fair to say that using postcelestial methods for precelestial aims is like trying to make an apple out of an apple pie?

 

I was just thinking that since houtian is a product of xiantian, then in a way xiantian could be called a more refined form of houtian. But even if that's true maybe it's just too ridiculous to try to make an apple from an apple pie.

 

But I wouldn't know how to prove that consciousness, ZOOM's "light" isn't already a precelestial energy. But if Neidan calls consciousness simply a product (that must be transformed), well I trust Neidan over my own mental meanderings.

[JinlianPai]

Stop insulting my intelligence! The earth or it's yellow dragon is not the center of the universe.That view is anthropocentric.

Im not the one doing that.....

[ralis]

JinLianPai,

 

Here is your little universe.

 

[Yae]

Stop insulting my intelligence! The earth or it's yellow dragon is not the center of the universe.That view is anthropocentric.

 

Maybe the Earth and Golden Dragon are metaphors for Tao in this scheme.

 

That brings me to another question, how exactly are Tao and yuanshen related?

 

edit: Is yuanshen analogous to the primordial yang itself?

Edited February 11, 2015 by Bluemind

[JinlianPai]

JinLianPai,

 

Here is your little universe.

 

Wow ok ur a forum troll thats obvious im going to take the high road and wish you luck and log out.

[Wells]

.

Edited February 11, 2015 by ZOOM

[ralis]

Wow ok ur a forum troll thats obvious im going to take the high road and wish you luck and log out.

 

Not a troll, but questioning the validity of your assumption.

[JinlianPai]

Not a troll, but questioning the validity of your assumption.

Naw man ur a troll i posted sources on most of my posts I said it was theory.

 

Its clear that you dont understand basic taoist cosmology.

 

Its not saying that earth is the center of the universe its saying that earth is the representation of center....

 

You didnt understand that and your in response you posted a roman chart!?!!?

 

So no man im good...ur a troll....

 

GOOD LUCK

Edited February 11, 2015 by JinlianPai

[ralis]

Naw man ur a troll i posted sources on most of my posts I said it was theory.

 

Its clear that you dont understand basic taoist cosmology.

 

Its not saying that earth is the center of the universe its saying that earth is the representation of center....

 

You didnt understand that and your in response you posted a roman chart!?!!?

 

So no man im good...ur a troll....

 

GOOD LUCK

 

Representation in what way?

[damdao]

Its clear that you dont understand basic taoist cosmology.

 

Its not saying that earth is the center of the universe its saying that earth is the representation of center....

In neidan too is a representation of the center.

And in the Secret of th Golden Flower it is mentioned:

 

6. The highest secrets of the Tao of the Elixir of Life are three; vitality-water, spirit-fire, and attention-earth. What is vitality-water? It is the true, one prenatal energy. Spirit fire is the light. Attention-earth is the heavenly heart of the middle palace. The fire of spirit is the function, the attention-earth is the substance, the vitality-water is the foundation.

6.丹道，以精水、神火、意土三者，为无上之诀。精水云何？乃先天真一之气，神火即光也，意土即中宫天心也。以神火为用，意土为体，精水为基。

 

http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ch2.html

[JinlianPai]

Did someone say North Star??

Yes

 

Some taoist sects work with the north star.

 

Which is pretty cool.

 

But then I heard taoist refer to the center of the earth as the "earth star".

[Brian]

Technically speaking, I am the center of the universe...

 

[JinlianPai]

In neidan too is a representation of the center.

And in the Secret of th Golden Flower it is mentioned:

 

Yes ive read the secret of the golden flower.

 

Heres my problem with its its too vague and too coded to actually be sure of anything it needs a control.

 

Like someone living who attained it.

 

So then this brings up Max and golden dragon body.

 

Max says its the prize of the secret of the golden flower.

 

Now I have a theory and a living example...

 

Now I have to forget everything I know about the secret of the golden flower.

 

And research it via the attainment alone and then its suppose source.

 

and what i came away with was a lot different.....

[ralis]

Yes ive read the secret of the golden flower.

 

Heres my problem with its its too vague and too coded to actually be sure of anything it needs a control.

 

Like someone living who attained it.

 

So then this brings up Max and golden dragon body.

 

Max says its the prize of the secret of the golden flower.

 

Now I have a theory and a living example...

 

Now I have to forget everything I know about the secret of the golden flower.

 

And research it via the attainment alone and then its suppose source.

 

and what i came away with was a lot different.....

 

Here is a quote from the site you referenced which clearly states;

 

 

The Yellow Dragon is represented by the Earth, as the source of all the elements and the center of the universe. It is said that the Yellow Emporer, Huang Di, is the ancestor of all chinese people.

 

The quote stated the "Yellow Dragon Is" The use of the term (is) denotes an absolute statement. That is why I challenged your assumption, which you are calling a theory.

[JinlianPai]

Even though Max and other taoist read the secret of the golden flower they didnt use the exact method in the book.

 

So then this came down to via the known methods what does the methods that actually work point to.

 

and to be even more critical is what he's attained the real golden dragon body?

 

Now I look into all of this.

 

To the methods the legends and so forth.

 

and with what I now know.

 

I think max attained rainbow body but not GDB.

[Songtsan]

 

 

 

That keeps one on the earth plane which would lead one to believe that existence is the end of the universe. Reshad Feild a Sufi master claimed in a talk on Youtube that 14 dimensions exist. Aurobindo and The Mother stated the same number.

There is a new physics theory out there which is a 14 dimensional model. Google 'geometric unity' model by Eric Weinstein...

[JinlianPai]

Here is a quote from the site you referenced which clearly states;

 

 

 

The quote stated the "Yellow Dragon Is" The use of the term (is) denotes an absolute statement. That is why I challenged your assumption, which you are calling a theory.

its cool man.

[JinlianPai]

So then this lead me to the history of the secret of the golden flower which lead me to the golden lotus sutras and then to the lotus tradition of china.

[JinlianPai]

So then led me to ask how does this fit in with taoist astrology?

 

Then the golden dragon popped up

 

This led me to research the legend and taoist astrology affect onto taoist alchemy.

 

Then I started to search for temples related to the earth guardian.

[JinlianPai]

literally there was none which was odd...

 

So then this made me wonder how did the golden lotus get into taoism?

[JinlianPai]

I questioned everything.

 

This led me to the question what is the core method of the golden lotus and why is there no temple to the main and primary guardian?

[JinlianPai]

My answer was

 

1. the golden lotus and other lotus methods are different and various

 

2. it was introduced by lu dongbin

 

3. The golden dragon has such a history in china but it looks like its history was also covered up as well.

 

So this brings me back to methodology

Edited February 11, 2015 by JinlianPai

[JinlianPai]

Now I had to go back to rainbow body by the tibetans who turned out to have various light bodies with classifications.

 

Now I came across repeatadly that the rainbow body needs earth chi.

 

Now this correlates to jing yin and essence and the golden dragon.

 

ok cool.

 

Now I noticed that the taoist have practices related and named after the 4 main guardians.

like phoenix, tiger, and so forth

 

but there was literally no med of the main primary and strongest guardian.

[JinlianPai]

So I learned more about the Guardians and associations.

 

So then the question became if there is a practice for every guardian then the golden dragon of the earth has to has one.

 

So this lines up with what max said as far as golden dragon being the highest attainment.

 

But

 

lore also indicates that the golden dragon is unfeatable and has a very strong connection to earth.

 

but none of the rainbow practices reseembled this and I looked.

 

There was nothing that increased your earth chi while building the rainbow body.....

 

This indicated a problem in methodology.

[Daeluin]

These facts give substance to my claim (based on my analysis and interpretation of the statements and instructions in The Secret Of The Golden Flower),

that you only need to achieve a condensed ball of your conscious spirit energy (yuan shen light) in your upper tantien to achieve a similar result.

 

Cut flowers are pretty, but don't last.