Neidan vs Qigong

[Wells]

If you could make an effort and think 5 minutes about my "sententious words" you wouldn't ask such questions... You know nothing about the differences between various daoist and buddhist methods collected in Wu-Liu Pai, you know nothing about the foundation that connect all these methods, you know nothing about Wu Chongxu, what he has achieved BEFORE he created a new school. But you express your doubts in a disrespectful manner and think somebody will explain you anything?

 

All the answers on such questions people can easily get on their own, if they make a small effort and start to read what is written and not what they want to see. If they cannot (as in your case) then nobody will proof them anything. We're not at the market and not in the court...

 

What I know from a member of your school is that even your teacher has none of the powers which John Chang displays in the video above.

As Taoist Immortals develop such powers naturally, I question if your system can create Taoist Immortals.

It's as simple as that.

[opendao]

So my question to Bluemind is - yes the super-secret Neidan school is super-secret but they have to resort to lying about other Neidan teachings. That is no longer super-secret.

 

So this pseudo-master accuses me in lying. For those with open eyes they can read that thread and take their own decision who is lying. http://thetaobums.com/topic/35872-neidan-refilling-yuanjingqi-building-the-foundation/page-17

 

But I will comment main 3 points pseudo-master cry on every corner.

 

Innersoundqigong:

 

The super-secret Neidan school not only resorted to quoting half sentences - the examples were a half sentence about the penis standing erect

 

let's see what I wrote:

 

 

So TY speaks a lot about the method how to prevent that. The main question is WHEN we have to revert the process of draining.

ISQ insists, that it's in the moment of "physical drain", so if man has no sex, then there is no drain.

Let's see TY: "When the generative force is about to flow out, if the mortal gate is not blocked it will leave by that gate, turn liquidand become the generative fluid which will be discharged. This generative force will become semen if it flows out in the worldly way". Obviously yuan jing ("generative force") and semen ("generative fluid") are not the same even for Zhao Bichen. That's why I told that it's wrong to think that the drain is physical. That's why it's too late to stop the semen flow (as LaoziDao correctly mentioned). So TY doesn't speak about physical drain.

But let's return to WHEN. "When the generative force is about to flow out". The previous sentence in the book gives an answer: "when the penis stands during sleep". So the real drain happens when "vitality manifests" (according to TY, in other schools the opinions are different). Really it doesn't matter, do you have sex or not, do you have sexual desires or not. If you don't know the specific method to apply at a specific time, then all this celibacy is in vain: yuan jing is transformed to postheaven jing and will flow away sooner or later.

 

Obviously I argue with our pseudo-master's thesis that "drain is physical", and that's what he had to provide arguments against (if he has any). But he decided to twist instead:

"As soon as the penis stands breath in fresh air to fan the stove in the lower abdomen in order to drive the generative force into the channel of control (tu mo in the spine) and put it into microcosmic orbit." p. 13

 

Nothing about vitality lost when the penis stands up.

 

So man decided to change the lane, and he argues with something I haven't even touched. I spoke about what happening in a person who doesn't practice, and such person obviously looses the energy (or it has no sense to practice anything). But the quote above speaks about what to practice to prevent the "drain", and it has to be done when "penis is erect". If we don't do it, the energy is obviously lost. So we see that pseudo-master can't read and has problems with logic. Also we see that even phrase is full, it doesn't help, the sense is still the same (that's why I quoted only a part - I don't like long posts).

 

Another example:

 

Innersoundqigong:

 

The lie about the generative force was again that energy had been lost when in fact the rest of the sentence says the generative force changes to fluid which is lost.

 

Again lack of any logic. If the energy changes to the fluid (so energy becomes fluid), then when fluid is lost then the energy is lost as well. You can put the phrase in full, in Chinese and you will get the same meaning.

 

About farting, dear readers, you can discuss it with our pseudo-master. He thinks that spirit comes out of the anus. I don't want even touch this stinky crap. He loves the book, maybe it satisfies his taste ;-(

 

So even with the full phrases, even if you bring them in Chinese, pseudo-master can close his mouth that I'm lying.

 

My point was that the drain is not physical, so all his long posts about celibacy have no big value, because anyway the energy is lost (in Neidan it's like 2+2 in math - obvious even for newbies). Who has eyes can see it. Others can try to celibate, believe to Innersoundqigong with all his "logic" (U of MN? I had a better impression about US's high education), and see it in 20-30 years.

 

That's all pseudo-masters can give you - NOTHING. Think using your own head, read with your own eyes the texts of respected schools and teachers with a long and proven history of high level results.

[opendao]

What I know from a member of your school is that even your teacher has none of the powers which John Chang displays in the video above.

As Taoist Immortals develop such powers naturally, I question if your system can create Taoist Immortals.

It's as simple as that.

 

1) what John Chang displays has no relation to Neidan. It's Neigong. I doubt though you've seen John Chang, so again it's kind of shallow (your knowledge).

 

2) your knowledge about my teacher is not complete, but I doubt he has any interest to prove you anything...

[Wells]

1) what John Chang displays has no relation to Neidan. It's Neigong. I doubt though you've seen John Chang, so again it's kind of shallow (your knowledge).

 

2) your knowledge about my teacher is not complete, but I doubt he has any interest to prove you anything...

 

I doesn't matter how you name it:

A Taoist Immortal will develop powers like John Chang naturally and will be able to display those to his students,

no matter if he became a Taoist Immortal through Nei Kung or through Neidan.

 

That's my personal position and btw the position of most members of the Neigong Forum.

For that reason, you generated zero interest in the Neigong Forum for your school and for your system.

 

If you or others disagree with that and prefer to believe in lineage or whatever instead of believing in power,

fine, that's your choice.

 

Dzogchen masters are able to imprint their hands and feet into solid rock, I have seen enough photos taken by their students.

Therefore I believe that Dzogchen is powerful enough to create Buddha's with Rainbow Body achievement.

If someone has the power to dissolve granite into its elements, then he can do the same with his body.

 

Every system that generates enough good evidence for such a kind of power will get me as a believer and as a supporter.

 

Therefore, your bullshit of labeling me as a person "with an evil heart" because I don't believe in your system, is more than ridicolous, it's in fact childish.

Edited February 13, 2015 by ZOOM

[Daeluin]

Neidan starts with a logic and ethic. With big attention to details. With responsibility for own words and actions. With a respect to the tradition. With an accurate work to systematize as many facts as possible. With a life long commitment to practice. With a reject to false views and popular mistakes. With a strong will to stop own "interpretations" and hear what teachers say. It's called "an ability to learn".

 

Inside and outside there are many moving parts, yet ultimately all is whole. The tao is the only teacher we need, but the tao may be found anywhere. Many have trouble recognizing when they are only seeing the tao in some places but not all places, and when they make conclusions based on this limited perspective they also reject the tao they don't see. Nothing can be rejected.

 

In this sense, it is not complicated. Everything is tao, and it is everywhere, in all the parts. Understanding how it all works is complicated, but becoming one with it is as simple as maintaining the sincerity to allow it to be so, from all that is within. Empty yourself of everything, and be limited by nothing.

 

Tao becomes a Secret when imagination, illusions, and stereotypes control somebody's life. Tao disappears when people with evil hearts try to find it. Then like children they start to cry or scream: "bad taoists, give us a candy". Or "immortal doesn't exist because I received no candy this year". It's called "cannot learn yet, blind and deaf".

 

When people disconnect from their hearts they are not "evil," they are simply lost. Especially in this country, men are raised to disassociate from their emotions, so it is no wonder.

 

Everybody can see who is who. Look in the mirror. Read your own posts. The secret of YOUR success or failure is there. Not on forums or somewhere else, not in somebody's actions or words. You deserve what you are.

 

You create what you are, and must account for what you create.

 

"Tao haven't gone from people, but people have gone from Tao".

 

Many people do not account for what they create, but look for a means of escape somehow. Perhaps some are afraid of their own darkness, and so run towards the light. But their darkness is a part of them, and they will need to answer to it in order to accept their own wholeness and purify it into the golden light.

 

The method is just sincerity placed upon inner wholeness. Those who think their ego is their whole are mistaken. When one humbles their ego and looks beyond what it thinks it knows, perhaps one may find their way begin to mysteriously unfold, no longer controlled by consciousness. When one maintains their sincerity upon increasing this operation, it builds and one must continuously increase their inner sincerity to avoid the power from being expressed. Refinement is needed to harmonize what becomes pressurized until it becomes fine and pure, no longer so overwhelming to contain. Refinement happens in many ways - virtuous, equanimous conduct among others is a fine place to operate refining. Simply maintain this operation and listen to the tao - it will take one where they need to go, and help one find the answers they need, without the ego getting in the way.

 

My words are easy to understand and easy to perform,

Yet no one under Heaven is able to know them or practice them

My words touch the fundamental,

The things concerned include all under Heaven.

Because ignorance exists,

There is no knowledge of me, my true self.

Those that know me are so very few,

Thus accomplishing my value.

Therefore, Sages wear coarse clothing and carry a priceless jewel in their bosom.

 

Dao De Jing ch70, Hu Xuezhi

[JinlianPai]

Practitioners of the golden lotus are suppose to have results...

 

They are suppose to be able to manifest the golden elixir.

 

Zhen qi is elixir yes but it is not the golden elixir.

 

The Golden elixir is literally the energetic expression of gold made inside the human body.

 

It actually correlates to actually gold in the outside world.

 

This is why alchemist referred to it as gold and why some Hinduism work by trying to asorbe gold energy directly...

 

The golden elixir has vast connections to nature.