Where is The Concept of Neidan(內丹) Came From...?

[ChiDragon]

I know one is try to pretend that I don't speak English. However, that was more like a metaphoric rhetoric for one(not everyone) who is constantly play games with yours truly..

[ChiDragon]

Here is a simply Chinese description about Neidan.

內丹術是道家一種重要的修鍊方法，現在一般視為道家氣功（道家多稱「煉氣術」）的一種。內丹術指以「人身是一小天地」的「天人合一」、「天人相應」思想為理論，進行性命的修鍊，以人身為鼎爐，修鍊「精、氣、神」等而達成強身健體、提高人體的生命功能、延長壽命、乃至成仙、長生不老之目的。

 

Neidan method is an important kind of cultivation procedure for Taoists. Presently, most people are considering it is a kind of Taoist Chi Kung(Taoists referred it as a method of Chi cultivation). The Neidan method is pointing out that the body is a small universe which is the integral of heaven and human. The thought of heaven and human are corresponding with each other as their philosophy. During the course of cultivation, using the body as the cauldron, refining Jing, Chi and Shen to accomplish the invigoration of the body; to enhance the vital functions of the body, to prolong life, even to become an immortal and the goal to reach longevity.

 

 

Ref: 內丹術, Neidan Shu

 

Please, I don't need to repeat myself.

[dwai]

From a Chinese point of view, what I trying to say is that Chi Kung cultivates three things, breathing(調息), mind(調心) and body(調身). However, regulating the breath(調息) is the main ingredient among the three. The other two and the energy part are only the result from the cultivation. If people can realize that the main emphasis is on regulating the breath, then they would understand what Chi Kung is all about.

 

You see regulating the breath, 調息, is different from just breathing. Regulating the breath involves with the movements of the abdomen. That is what Chi Kung is all about. Without the movements of the abdomen, it would be just normal breathing which is not Chi Kung.

 

 

Chi Kung cultivates Chi. Breath is only focussed upon at the beginner's level. Just like Pranayama (one of the 8 limbs of Ashtanga Yoga) is not about breath cultivation. It is about Prana (Chi) cultivation.

Edited November 10, 2013 by dwai

[ChiDragon]

dwai.....
I am only speaking purely from a Chinese point of view, as in many cases, to avoid the intermingle with multicultural practices.

[dwai]

dwai.....

I am only speaking purely from a Chinese point of view, as in many cases, to avoid the intermingle with multicultural practices.

My grand teacher is a chinese gentleman - Master Waysun Liao. He says Chi Kung is about cultivating Chi, not about Breath. Cheng Man Ching said the same thing...all the Chinese masters of Taoist arts have said so. Why are you translating Chi as Breath?

[ChiDragon]

My grand teacher is a chinese gentleman - Master Waysun Liao. He says Chi Kung is about cultivating Chi, not about Breath. Cheng Man Ching said the same thing...all the Chinese masters of Taoist arts have said so. Why are you translating Chi as Breath?

 

The westerns likes to call Chi as "energy" in English. The Chinese masters cannot change their minds but has to go along with them. Do you see where I am at.....???

[dawei]

Please, I don't need to repeat myself.

 

There was a new rule implemented... .members overly repeating themselves can be considered spam... The point is, once is enough and no need to grandstand.

[ChiDragon]

I rest my case.

[dwai]

 

The westerns likes to call Chi as "energy" in English. The Chinese masters cannot change their minds but has to go along with them. Do you see where I am at.....???

Actually Master Liao and his direct students (including my situ) clearly indicate that "breath" is not equal to "Chi". To advance in TaijiChuan and Qi Gong/Nei Gong practice, one has to let go of the beginner-level prop of using breath. The breath is just a transport system for the Chi when one doesn't have the sensitivity to feel the Chi or the level of Chi to make it flow using the intention (Yi).

 

I see where you are at...I don't think you can speak for all the Chinese masters on this topic. I realize that you take a very mechanistic view of Chi Gong and Chi in general...that might be coloring your perspective however.

[ChiDragon]

dwai.....
It was my pleasure talking to you, I hope you will be a master in Chi Kung.

[opendao]

 

Just to give some quotes:

 

"According to the principles of alchemy, at a young age the human body grows like a young sprout. Borrowing a term from the Daode jing (Book of the Way and its Virtue), this is called “superior virtue.” Spirit and Breath are abundant, and there is no need of performing any practice to build the foundations. After growth and maturity, Essence, Breath, and Spirit become consumed and should be replenished. In the alchemical practice, this is referred to as “inferior virtue”: one must provide what is missing."

An alchemical poem says:

“Superior virtue has no doing,” and you enter the practice of Xing (Nature):

is there any need of repairing or harmonizing what is damaged or full?

The Cantong qi says:

“Superior virtue has no doing”: it does not use examining and seeking.

“Inferior virtue does”: its operation does not rest.

“Superior virtue has no doing: it does not use examining and seeking.” Inferior virtue extends life by means of a practice. One begins from effort and ends with stability, and performs the way of “doing”; thus one is able to revert to the Origin. Therefore the Cantong qi says, “Inferior virtue does: its operation does not rest.”

-- Fabrizio Pregadio (Wang Mu - Foundations of Internal Alchemy. The Taoist Practice of Neidan)

 

That's correct and has a big sense. You asked about doing/non-doing in Wu-Liu. We follow the same idea, so Neidan starts with doing and then continues with non-doing. But both are Neidan and it's impossible to say that "doing" is Qigong. By "qigong" Teacher of Single Yang usually refers any systems that work with Post Heaven Qi, Jing and Shen, doesn't matter if it was before the term "qigong" was widely used or not. Usually old systems have simple names like 5 animals etc.

Edited November 11, 2013 by opendao