bliss vs Bliss

[Sahaj Nath]

It is good to be cautious regarding a great many words used when speaking of Practice.

 

It can also be a very good reason for a group setting because often words and ideas will be very clearly defined.

Obviously their are exceptions to the utility of this as some well defined concepts can box in ones thinking if the

choices are not well refined. That said - you will find that about 99% of the quotes within these walls are from teachers who had teachers and group settings at least for a time.

 

The word Bliss is one of the most misunderstood words and actually a very real barrier-word for many regarding Awakening.

How can an Awaken one claim as they all do (in our translations) that they maintain a bliss state even in the face of the deaths of children, famine etc???!!!

Because:

"The Sun does not dim because the Earth is having a bad day."

(D.Doyle))

 

Rather than Bliss which connotates incorrectly a quality associated with Good Feeling vs Bad with the addition of a sort of carefree-ness.

Think instead of a constant high vibration - it is neither good nor bad - it is a high vibration - so high that it is light.

The note is always there - it is a pervading note of light.

This note is not recognized as Bliss by a great number of Awakening Beings because the word Bliss is far from the actual texture and tone. And many who feel Bliss - a bliss more in line with the connotation are more frequently not in an Awakening state.

 

Hi Spotless,

 

On the bliss/vibration thing, can you say more? This is really interesting to me because I recognise what you're talking about but I've not come across it expressed this particular way before.

 

I'm finding - as you said - that this is far from the 'actual texture and tone' of bliss as I might have thought, might have believed, once upon a time. I could describe the texture and tone as I experience it, but to be honest it's mostly a really annoying thing to have to work with. Or to work around. I haven't figured out which yet.

 

Thanks

such a good and important topic that i thought it good to create a new thread around it.

 

this year has been incredible for me in terms of growth and the dawning of Insight. one area in particular that has really opened up for me includes the subject of bliss. i'd love to get the perspective of others on this matter, but i hope that those who reply can speak from their own experience moreso than parroting the words of others.

 

 

as per my experience this year, there is a Bliss that is non-relative, like a Bliss Prime, whose only opposite is Emptiness. its "actual texture and tone" IS blissful in the way that we all understand the term, i.e., the bliss is ACTUAL and neither conceptual nor abstract. yes, it is vibrational in nature, but the term Bliss is a more apt description than "higher vibration."

 

in terms of my own experience, it arises from a root-awareness that this body-mind is just a tiny ripple in the Ocean of existence. the awareness is not localized in the body, but takes in experience through ALL bodies and generates new experience for all bodies. the substance of that experience is Bliss. it's like a friction. all existence is motion. all motion is vibration/friction. and all vibration is bliss. so the relative crushing agony of a mother suffering the loss of a child is indeed bliss in nature. the painful cries of the drug addict dying in a pool of his own vomit in some darkened alleyway is indeed bliss in nature. in fact, ALL arising phenomenon radiates pure bliss, merely by virtue of existing. however small or great the motion, its essence is recognized as Pure God rubbing up against Pure God. everything that can exist not only does exist, but MUST exist. because its the only function, the only purpose, of the Universe. God alone exists.

 

that's as best as i can translate my current state. not sure if i would find this description credible if i wasn't immersed in the truth of it even as i type these words.

 

relative bliss relates closer to joy and love. Bliss Prime relates closer to our notions of death. i can feel the vibration pulling my consciousness out of this body-mind. without egoic attachment, my physical body would quickly die. i can actually feel it. i recall Mark Griffin talking about this once in a talk on Vajrayana, but i thought he was full of it. he talked about how after he attained realization under Muktananda, he needed to learn how to stabilize his being under the guidance of (the previous) Kalu Rinpoche. without the techniques to stabilize his consciousness in the physical body, he would have lost his body.

 

at the time his words just sounded like some nonsense he read in a book somewhere that wanted us to believe, so i dismissed it. i didn't see the point in him even sharing it if there was no way to verify the truth of it. but it turns out that there IS a way to verify the truth of it: direct experience.

 

for the record, this is NOT a claim of enlightenment. this is a true and candid description of one aspect of my current state. i assume there are others here who are experiencing or have experienced this, and others still who are in equally profound states that differ from what i have described. i'd love to here from all of you.

 

so if this topic derails, whatevs. but methinks our relationship to bliss in its many forms might be a really good focal point.

[Marblehead]

I rarely use the word "bliss". I rather use the words "contentment" and "harmony". "Bliss", in my understanding is only temporary and is very fleeting.

[C T]

 

in terms of my own experience, it arises from a root-awareness that this body-mind is just a tiny ripple in the Ocean of existence. the awareness is not localized in the body, but takes in experience through ALL bodies and generates new experience for all bodies. the substance of that experience is Bliss. it's like a friction. all existence is motion. all motion is vibration/friction. and all vibration is bliss. so the relative crushing agony of a mother suffering the loss of a child is indeed bliss in nature. the painful cries of the drug addict dying in a pool of his own vomit in some darkened alleyway is indeed bliss in nature. in fact, ALL arising phenomenon radiates pure bliss, merely by virtue of existing. however small or great the motion,

That is quite a realization, Hundun.

 

I am wondering, though, since its non-local, does that not indicate somehow that it might be beyond experience, in other words, there is only Bliss-Fullness, there is no 'me' to experience it as such.

 

If we already are the essence (and we are, since we already realize the fundamental nature of Reality is but vibrational frequencies), is there a need to bring the experience to light? To do so, in my view, sets (or potentially incurs) karmic limitations and residues which will impede (maybe impede is not the best descriptive term -- more like a potential impediment), the 'resting' or 'relaxing' into the essence itself.

 

As long as the experience is not limited to a 'me who is experiencing...", i think that is ok. There are experiences, but at the same time, there are the causes which float them (brings them to the surface). To fully unite the causes and the experiences/results of causes, the 'me' has to drop, otherwise the depths cannot be plumbed.

 

Once the depths have been reached, is there more that needs to be done? From where i stand, not really much else to do but ease into, and remain there, as the nondescript (that which you call God).

 

Your thoughts?

[fluidity]

Brilliant thread!

"in terms of my own experience, it arises from a root-awareness that this body-mind is just a tiny ripple in the Ocean of existence. the awareness is not localized in the body, but takes in experience through ALL bodies and generates new experience for all bodies. the substance of that experience is Bliss. it's like a friction. all existence is motion. all motion is vibration/friction. and all vibration is bliss. so the relative crushing agony of a mother suffering the loss of a child is indeed bliss in nature. the painful cries of the drug addict dying in a pool of his own vomit in some darkened alleyway is indeed bliss in nature. in fact, ALL arising phenomenon radiates pure bliss, merely by virtue of existing. however small or great the motion,"

 

I'm amazed to find that someone has put this indescribable feeling into words.

That feeling of Bliss is the feeling of the knowing of Tomorrow

 

The universe transmutes all shameful-existence into Pure existence

All pain is rooted from the shame of existing: Why am I? Someone disagreed with Me. Why am I?

The answering of the question expanding the universe

 

More room to breathe

Suddenly purity

[Sahaj Nath]

That is quite a realization, Hundun.

 

I am wondering, though, since its non-local, does that not indicate somehow that it might be beyond experience, in other words, there is only Bliss-Fullness, there is no 'me' to experience it as such.

hm... well, the thing is... there IS a 'me' that is experiencing and understanding all of these things; it's just that the 'me' isn't limited to the body-mind. in terms of awakening, i think the current unfolding belongs to the realm of savikalpa as opposed to nirvikalpa. identity isn't dissolved into nothingness, but rather infinitely expanded. it's pretty awesome, actually. but the absence of a self-consciousness, as is indicative of nirvikalpa samadhi, has not been realized yet. i don't know if i'll get there in this lifetime, but i guess we'll see.

 

If we already are the essence (and we are, since we already realize the fundamental nature of Reality is but vibrational frequencies), is there a need to bring the experience to light? To do so, in my view, sets (or potentially incurs) karmic limitations and residues which will impede (maybe impede is not the best descriptive term -- more like a potential impediment), the 'resting' or 'relaxing' into the essence itself.

not sure if i get your meaning, but 'what we already are' has no real bearing on the need to bring certain things to light. i still have this relative life to live, and all the so-called limitations that come with that. i still feel alone in the relative world and feel a natural inclination to either find others that see & experience what i do (and more), or TRAIN others to see & experience what i do (and more). i don't think this has kept me from being able to relax into the essence itself. it's not all or nothing.

 

 

As long as the experience is not limited to a 'me who is experiencing...", i think that is ok. There are experiences, but at the same time, there are the causes which float them (brings them to the surface). To fully unite the causes and the experiences/results of causes, the 'me' has to drop, otherwise the depths cannot be plumbed.

 

Once the depths have been reached, is there more that needs to be done? From where i stand, not really much else to do but ease into, and remain there, as the nondescript (that which you call God).

 

Your thoughts?

mixed feelings about this. i think scripture would agree with you, but i don't feel any inclination whatsoever to even attempt to get rid of the "me who is experiencing." if it needs to dissolve, then i trust that it will as a result of staying true to my path. as it is, my spiritual practice is probably 60% natural flow, 30% devotion & longing, and 20% everything else. that's right. i give 110%

 

 

thanks for the great post.

Edited November 8, 2013 by Hundun

[fluidity]

From WIkipedia:

 

"Samadhi can be compared to normal thought as a laser beam can be compared to normal light. Normal light is diffuse. A laser beam is highly concentrated light. The laser beam contains power that normal light does not. Similarly, samadhi is the mind in its most concentrated state. The mind in samadhi possess power than a normal mind does not. This power is used by the yogin to reveal the essence of the pratyaya. This essence is called the artha of the pratyaya. The release of the artha of the pratyaya is similar to cracking open the shell of a seed to discover the essential elements of the seed, the genetic material, protected by the shell.

Once perfected, samadhi is the main tool used by a yogin to penetrate into the deeper layers of consciousness and seek the center of the yogin's consciousness. Upon finding this center, the final act is using a variant form of samadhi, called dharma mega samadhi, to penetrate the center of consciousness and emerge through this center into Kaivalya. Kaivalya is the term used by Patanjali to designate the state of Absolute consciousness free from all fetters and limitations.

Thus it can be seen that, according to Taimni's interpretation of the Yoga Sutras, samadhi is the main tool the yogin uses to achieve the end goal of yoga, the joining of the individual self with the Universal Absolute."

 

 

 

It leads me to a question of The Reading (al-quran). The process is described in chapter 55 from beginning to merging.

We might think of it as a series of layers. In the first layer a person is fully induced into "I-AM" asleep. In the final layer where the curved boundary merges with the flat line, a person is fully induced into "I-AM" awake. Then beyond this point we have non-duality entirely abiding in wholeness.

 

We go from

one => many => infinity
infinity => many => one

one => oneinfinity
one <=> one

 

With regards to the physical structure of the individuated human body in terms of 3D snapshots travelling along axis 4, we may observe there is a gate of openness abiding in the Heart.

The key is to abide (1) opening heart (2) preserving opening-heart-flow => (0) absolute-open-heart

As for (0), this is the unifying intersection of Bliss Prime with Bliss and bliss and all subsets. Bliss Prime geometrically would be centred at t=0 then Bliss would occur at the cyclical intervals where Bliss Prime is switched off by even a single (0/1) bit value, then bliss in reference to the pervading light vibration is the point where (2) is etched into the fundamental IAM of an individuated senient being.


We may then define:

Absolute
Absolute-humanresonance

Absolute-humanresonancebliss

Absolute-humanresonanceBliss

 

The return from Absolute-humanresonance to Absolute is the generating Absolute-humanresonanceBliss

Due to the law of entropy these words may degrade in quality though perhaps someone might build a pyramid

[Simple_Jack]

@ Hundun

 

Has this experience become stabilized? From this "not sure if i would find this description credible if i wasn't immersed in the truth of it even as i type these words", it sounds like it isn't just periodically experienced when meditating or whatever, but is an immersion in your entire being in the midst of activity.

 

Needless to say, the Vedanta teachings, especially from modern Advaita Vedanta teachers such as Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi, would be really helpful to you at this point in time.

[Sahaj Nath]

@ Hundun

 

Has this experience become stabilized? From this "not sure if i would find this description credible if i wasn't immersed in the truth of it even as i type these words", it sounds like it isn't just periodically experienced when meditating or whatever, but is an immersion in your entire being in the midst of activity.

 

Needless to say, the Vedanta teachings, especially from modern Advaita Vedanta teachers such as Nisargadatta Maharaj and Ramana Maharshi, would be really helpful to you at this point in time.

 

YES. it seems to be a stabilized condition. it's been nearly 5 months now. the intensity of bliss and disidentification with the body-mind varies a bit with my attention, but the general state is constant.

 

still hoping some folks will chime in with their experiences and views on bliss vs Bliss.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Hundun

[RiverSnake]

I can feel the vibration pulling my consciousness out of this body-mind. without egoic attachment, my physical body would quickly die. i can actually feel it. i recall Mark Griffin talking about this once in a talk on Vajrayana, but i thought he was full of it. he talked about how after he attained realization under Muktananda, he needed to learn how to stabilize his being under the guidance of (the previous) Kalu Rinpoche. without the techniques to stabilize his consciousness in the physical body, he would have lost his body.at the time his words just sounded like some nonsense he read in a book somewhere that wanted us to believe, so i dismissed it. i didn't see the point in him even sharing it if there was no way to verify the truth of it. but it turns out that there IS a way to verify the truth of it: direct experience.for the record, this is NOT a claim of enlightenment. this is a true and candid description of one aspect of my current state. i assume there are others here who are experiencing or have experienced this, and others still who are in equally profound states that differ from what i have described. i'd love to here from all of you.so if this topic derails, whatevs. but methinks our relationship to bliss in its many forms might be a really good focal point.

 

This is very interesting Hundun. I have never heard anyone else talk about this phenomenon of leaving the body at self-realization besides Sadghuru. Very interesting stuff:

 

My 2 cents, Peace

[9th]

relative bliss relates closer to joy and love. Bliss Prime relates closer to our notions of death. i can feel the vibration pulling my consciousness out of this body-mind. without egoic attachment, my physical body would quickly die. i can actually feel it.

 

"Bliss vibrations" is also what pulls consciousness out of the physical body during OBEs instigated with unbroken awareness (i.e. during waking state). So you might want to make sure its not just instinctual, animal fears getting in the way and masquerading as "higher knowledge". Translating your awareness into another medium can be fairly intense and unfamiliar to the conditioned daily mind, as its not commonly addressed or even "purely" biological anyway.

 

ive been pulled out of the body by bliss energy plenty of times and im still here to talk about it.. but maybe i died then i just reanimated myself.. or maybe im possessing my own body! whoa...

[C T]

 

 

 

 

thanks for the great post.

no, i should thank you for sharing your realizations. its great!

[fluidity]

It might be worth pointing to the Heart as the origin/essence of all Bliss.

Reason being that there are 3 chakras above and 3 chakras below, the heart being in the centre - even disregarding chakras we observe the heart is the central unification. When energy flows down from Crown to Heart and simultaneously flows up from Root to Heart, there is a meeting in the middle of these two flows.


Then there is a resonance which occurs when these flows meet. There is DMT synthesis occurring (dimethyltryptamine). Within the DMT synthesis there is the IAM. Think of DMT as the volume level to the IAM.

If I-AM is sad, DMT at 10 is LOUD sad, if I-AM is happy, DMT at 11 is BLISS happy.

When a person seeks to enter pure Void of Void, it is DMT that is the gateless gate into it.

DMT is always synthesised with each heartbeat as far as I can tell. It acts in trace amounts as only a tiny nudge from this is necessary to do things. It is found in the heart, lungs and pineal gland.

DMT is the molecule of Clear Light. When DMT levels go up, Clear Light floods the body - it is the key to opening the gate itself.


To sustain the bliss, the body must satisfy these conditions:

(1) Monoamine oxidase is inhibited or otherwise rerouted from breaking DMT down
(2) DMT is being synthesised by resonance of heartbeat-lungs-pineal
(3) Absolute is choosing to flow the body into direction of Bliss

So we have in order of flow

Clear Light/Truth => Spirit/Breath => Clear Light/Truth => DMT => Clear Light/Truth => Rest-Of-The-Body



Heartbeat pulls Spirit in and out applying Yin-Yang transform. Clear Light is prismed by Spirit into Spirit's individuated colour/frequency. DMT opens or closes amplitude of vibration of Spirit. DMT is also the prism molecule itself! Too much Spirit at the wrong time? Toast.

In each mid-stage between Clear Light, there is the propensity for the generation of noise and consequently falsehood. The signal:noise ratio is of key essence.

So you can see where the unification occurs. I remember reading a story where a monk was given DMT. After returning from the journey, he stated this is the farthest you could go without physically dying. I might come to agree!


Thank you for the pointer toward Dharma Megha/Kaivalya!
DHARMAMEGA: "Cloud of Dharma." In the very last section of the Yogasutra: within the Kaivalya Pada it describes a condition immediately preceding kaivalya itself called dharma-mega-samadhi.


Accordingly, the text infers dharma-mega-samadhi contains and encompasses all that can be known, just as a cloud fills the sky. And just as rain quenches the thirsting earth, so this "cloud" pours down the rain of the Dharma and exstinguishes the raging fire of all kinds of instability.



'The Yogasutra seems to be interested in the benefit of the dharma-megha-samadhi for the sake of the yogin only: his Klesa and Karma are eradicted, his knowledge is infinitely enlarged, his kaivalya is secured, which means the attainment of his "being his true self."



Highly relevant thread - "Eternal Heaven"

[...]
Eternal pain is thus only reserved to the one creator, the greatest of all, the lord of all lords. Who has the power to refuse moving to the joy of his own creations. A typical human merely explodes to the natural fiery streams of the eternal heaven that awaits us in the afterlife, non-physical to our senses, it is timeless, and paradoxically it is denser then all of the universe compressed into one. [...]

The truth of these statements may be understood from an information-theoretic perspective - it is very much so mathematically sound!


Also of interest:

6-MeO-THBC (Pinoline/endogenous MAOI)
5-MT (Mexamine/Dream tryptamine)
Melatonin (Sleep inducer/Astral plane connector)

Edited November 9, 2013 by fluidity

[Sahaj Nath]

 

"Bliss vibrations" is also what pulls consciousness out of the physical body during OBEs instigated with unbroken awareness (i.e. during waking state). So you might want to make sure its not just instinctual, animal fears getting in the way and masquerading as "higher knowledge".

there is no fear at work in any way here, although there was a moment when i questioned if it was a brain tumor just because the shift was so tremendous and then it never left. but even that consideration didn't hold any fear.

Translating your awareness into another medium can be fairly intense and unfamiliar to the conditioned daily mind, as its not commonly addressed or even "purely" biological anyway.

 

ive been pulled out of the body by bliss energy plenty of times and im still here to talk about it.. but maybe i died then i just reanimated myself.. or maybe im possessing my own body! whoa...

i know what you're talking about. i've been blissed out of my body before. i used to take my students through that just to show them that we weren't missing out on anything by steering clear of Kunlun. but that's not what's going on in this case.

 

 

maybe the way i described it was just unclear. maybe i'll try again later.

 

 

and THANK YOU for replying with some of your own experience rather than just theory!

 

i'm still hoping more people (*cough*-Seth-Trunk-*cough*) will comment with some recognition and offer their insights.

[Jetsun]

still hoping some folks will chime in with their experiences and views on bliss vs Bliss.

I only have minor tastes but my understanding is that what many call Samadhi bliss is the highest form of personal experience, but beyond that is the impersonal experience. Within the impersonal everything arises which is like a form of love in that everything just is and is part of the one.

[Sahaj Nath]

 

The truth of these statements may be understood from an information-theoretic perspective - it is very much so mathematically sound!

 

 

Also of interest...

 

 

fluidity,

 

part of me wants to respond to SOME of the things you've written, as some of it is at least interesting, but it's all convoluted, and unnecessarily so because what you're trying to explain really isn't that complicated if you abandon such gross abstraction. it makes me not want to comment on anything you've written because i have to address the entire framework in which it is presented, and ain't nobody got time for that!

 

i mean, feel free to keep posting as you see fit, but i was hoping to avoid the kind of non-experience-based abstraction & theorizing you're engaging in. i tend to enjoy the abstract and theoretical, just not in this particular instance.

[9th]

but that's not what's going on in this case.

 

If its truly life-threatening, then the very possibility of that should give you clues as to the direction it would go. In other words, there is a purpose for all things.

 

"Bliss" can be a subjective aspect of siddhis in general. "Grounding" or "conducting" (as in a conduit) that energy is worth the effort. What Im saying is: investigate it on your own terms and try not to jump to conclusions, especially those provided by other people, and even more especially those based on fear of any sort, and most especially fear of death.

 

In that sense, there is no point in saying too much here - but dont get caught up on this. Even many decades of experience with this sort of thing is really less than a drop in the ocean. If you can clearly recall multiple lifetimes, then you may have good reason to get excited about your development - otherwise I would advise caution and proactive humility.

[fluidity]

Neither abstraction nor theorising, that is the kind of framework that would make Lao Tzu eat his shoe.
Humans cannot talk of Tao bit suffice to say Tao speaks - information-theory is far from theory!

Luckily for ourselves at this point, the good Mantak Chia has written a book about the whole thing -

Darkness Technology

Edited November 9, 2013 by fluidity

[Seth Ananda]

Good to hear such good news from you my brother

such a good and important topic that i thought it good to create a new thread around it.

this year has been incredible for me in terms of growth and the dawning of Insight. one area in particular that has really opened up for me includes the subject of bliss. i'd love to get the perspective of others on this matter, but i hope that those who reply can speak from their own experience moreso than parroting the words of others.


as per my experience this year, there is a Bliss that is non-relative, like a Bliss Prime, whose only opposite is Emptiness. its "actual texture and tone" IS blissful in the way that we all understand the term, i.e., the bliss is ACTUAL and neither conceptual nor abstract. yes, it is vibrational in nature, but the term Bliss is a more apt description than "higher vibration."

Its called 'Spanda' in the KS texts. Although scholars sometimes seem to refer to spanda as vibration there is a more subtle {and blissful} nuance to the term.

in terms of my own experience, it arises from a root-awareness that this body-mind is just a tiny ripple in the Ocean of existence.

That is just, Fantastic. Congratulations. So good to hear. That is how you know there is a difference between your average small bliss junkie, and big or your 'Prime' Bliss experience. The bliss is coming from understanding and recognition, not just from energy fiddling, deeper concentration achievements or devotional results.

the awareness is not localized in the body, but takes in experience through ALL bodies and generates new experience for all bodies. the substance of that experience is Bliss. it's like a friction. all existence is motion. all motion is vibration/friction. and all vibration is bliss. so the relative crushing agony of a mother suffering the loss of a child is indeed bliss in nature. the painful cries of the drug addict dying in a pool of his own vomit in some darkened alleyway is indeed bliss in nature. in fact, ALL arising phenomenon radiates pure bliss, merely by virtue of existing. however small or great the motion, its essence is recognized as Pure God rubbing up against Pure God. everything that can exist not only does exist, but MUST exist. because its the only function, the only purpose, of the Universe. God alone exists.

Yes!

that's as best as i can translate my current state. not sure if i would find this description credible if i wasn't immersed in the truth of it even as i type these words.

relative bliss relates closer to joy and love. Bliss Prime relates closer to our notions of death. i can feel the vibration pulling my consciousness out of this body-mind. without egoic attachment, my physical body would quickly die. i can actually feel it. i recall Mark Griffin talking about this once in a talk on Vajrayana, but i thought he was full of it. he talked about how after he attained realization under Muktananda, he needed to learn how to stabilize his being under the guidance of (the previous) Kalu Rinpoche. without the techniques to stabilize his consciousness in the physical body, he would have lost his body.

crow meat, lol.

at the time his words just sounded like some nonsense he read in a book somewhere that wanted us to believe, so i dismissed it. i didn't see the point in him even sharing it if there was no way to verify the truth of it. but it turns out that there IS a way to verify the truth of it: direct experience.

for the record, this is NOT a claim of enlightenment. this is a true and candid description of one aspect of my current state. i assume there are others here who are experiencing or have experienced this, and others still who are in equally profound states that differ from what i have described. i'd love to here from all of you.

so if this topic derails, whatevs. but methinks our relationship to bliss in its many forms might be a really good focal point.

 

Trust the state brother, focus on it, give it attention, but don't hang on to it, and it should deepen and deepen all by itself.

Hopefully you don't crash and burn like I did

[Sahaj Nath]

 

If its truly life-threatening, then the very possibility of that should give you clues as to the direction it would go. In other words, there is a purpose for all things.

 

"Bliss" can be a subjective aspect of siddhis in general. "Grounding" or "conducting" (as in a conduit) that energy is worth the effort. What Im saying is: investigate it on your own terms and try not to jump to conclusions, especially those provided by other people, and even more especially those based on fear of any sort, and most especially fear of death.

 

In that sense, there is no point in saying too much here - but dont get caught up on this. Even many decades of experience with this sort of thing is really less than a drop in the ocean. If you can clearly recall multiple lifetimes, then you may have good reason to get excited about your development - otherwise I would advise caution and proactive humility.

*nods*

understood. fair enough.

 

Good to hear such good news from you my brother

Its called 'Spanda' in the KS texts. Although scholars sometimes seem to refer to spanda as vibration there is a more subtle {and blissful} nuance to the term.

that actually helps a lot! better enables me to contextualize this state in terms of Mark's lectures. not that i need to find a place to fit, but it makes his talks on spandas that much more relevant.

 

 

That is just, Fantastic. Congratulations. So good to hear. That is how you know there is a difference between your average small bliss junkie, and big or your 'Prime' Bliss experience. The bliss is coming from understanding and recognition, not just from energy fiddling, deeper concentration achievements or devotional results.

indeed. i figured if anyone could confirm the difference, it was you. cool.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Trust the state brother, focus on it, give it attention, but don't hang on to it, and it should deepen and deepen all by itself.

yes! that's exactly what i feel naturally inclined to do, and it intuitively feels like it will deepen all by itself.

 

 

Hopefully you don't crash and burn like I did

THIS!

 

yeah, this is why i wanted to hear from you on this whole thing. i was pretty sure that you've already been down this road. yet having been there and then having lost it, you still maintain it's a legitimate unfolding. it certainly feels that way, but it helps to hear it from someone like you, so thanks.

 

it helps me to treat as precious, to work to properly tend to the unfolding, and to know that it will slip if i'm careless. truth be told, it could slip regardless. so while it's here, i'll certainly give it its due.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Hundun

[Seth Ananda]

THIS!

 

yeah, this is why i wanted to hear from you on this whole thing. i was pretty sure that you've already been down this road. yet having been there and then having lost it, you still maintain it's a legitimate unfolding. it certainly feels that way, but it helps to hear it from someone like you, so thanks.

 

it helps me to treat as precious, to work to properly tend to the unfolding, and to know that it will slip if i'm careless. truth be told, it could slip regardless. so while it's here, i'll certainly give it its due.

 

Actually, I don't think it can be lost... well I am not sure how to loose it anyway, and it has been many years...

 

Its like once you know it, you can't really unknow it. But you can try to ignore it. Thats what I do. I do my best usually to ignore it.

 

I was wounded deeply as a child, and that deep trauma is slowly getting better. Very slowly. But it wont unwind at my speed, or it would have unwound yesteryears. Unfortunately it is not under the jurisdiction of my conscious mind.

 

For me that bliss and joy that you describe is always there. In excruciating mental, emotional or physical pain, while vomiting, yowling with a migraine, there is always this background of expansive bliss that is the actual nature of things. Last time I was vomiting I was nearly chocking from laughing so hard at the same time...

 

But If I focus on it, I start to dissolve into that background. Unfortunately that 'sets off' or pressures the feeling of the trauma I still carry, and while I can say that the state is deeply healing for countless lesser 'issues', it just does not unwind the really deep stuff.

Feeling the two at once, is like being torn apart...

 

Actually, I should add that it was not like this at first. It was later on, as the feeling of the state, dare i say 'wanted' deeper access to my body that it really became an issue. Or maybe i should say that as I really let myself open 'bodily' to the experience that trouble first started brewing.

 

I am still a fair while off being able to really let myself experience this state.

 

At the same time, I have to thank this state for finally opening the door to that hurt part of myself. I knew it was there, but years and years of work previously did not open the door. And it did.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Seth Ananda

[silent thunder]

I rarely use the word "bliss". I rather use the words "contentment" and "harmony". "Bliss", in my understanding is only temporary and is very fleeting.

I agree.

bliss seems a bit like a pressure release valve triggering as a safety response.

[Sahaj Nath]

For me that bliss and joy that you describe is always there. In excruciating mental, emotional or physical pain, while vomiting, yowling with a migraine, there is always this background of expansive bliss that is the actual nature of things. Last time I was vomiting I was nearly chocking from laughing so hard at the same time...

yes! that's exactly what it's like! it's been with me nearly 5 months now, and no matter what physical or otherwise surface drama i'm engaged in, that background of expansive Bliss is always there.

 

it's an awesome thing to feel understood.

But If I focus on it, I start to dissolve into that background. Unfortunately that 'sets off' or pressures the feeling of the trauma I still carry, and while I can say that the state is deeply healing for countless lesser 'issues', it just does not unwind the really deep stuff.

Feeling the two at once, is like being torn apart...

 

Actually, I should add that it was not like this at first. It was later on, as the feeling of the state, dare i say 'wanted' deeper access to my body that it really became an issue. Or maybe i should say that as I really let myself open 'bodily' to the experience that trouble first started brewing.

 

I am still a fair while off being able to really let myself experience this state.

 

At the same time, I have to thank this state for finally opening the door to that hurt part of myself. I knew it was there, but years and years of work previously did not open the door. And it did.

well, i guess shortly time will reveal just how much trauma i've really worked through and resolved up to this point. i think i'm ready for that test.

 

i think what has been most healing for me, practices aside, has been my commitment to genuine openness & honesty. even when it's not pretty, it's real. that trait that so many people dislike about me has taken me a long way in terms of deep healing. there's no internal process of "well, an X-type of person would respond/behave in THIS way, so i should adjust my behavior accordingly." perhaps that process works for some, but i think it's encouraged far too often and, for me at least, it leads to disconnection and short-circuits the spiritual process.

 

don't know if that will be helpful or even well-received by anyone, but there it is anyway.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Hundun

[RiverSnake]

Recently had some experiences with Bliss that perhaps some experienced practitioners can shed some light on. I was sitting in meditation on my LDT. I remembered other techniques where people meditate on the LDT they squeeze there PC muscle for some reason.

 

I squeezed my PC a couple of times and felt chi shoot up my spine into my brain. After doing it a couple times i felt a "foggy bliss" in my brain that was moderately intense, it lasted for several hours. It was quite pleasant but also a bit discomforting…i have not done it since because of the discomfort and i thought it unlikely to be good for practice in the long term. I have had other experiences where i was in Bliss for a couple days….but the states seemed lighter and less intense than this one.

 

Could anyone here (Hundun, Seth…etc) share there thoughts on this experience?

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited November 15, 2013 by OldChi

[Ish]

i wont say more except that i've experienced the same thing (as a repeatable result). leave the rest to the others :]

Edited November 15, 2013 by Ish

[RiverSnake]

i wont say more except that i've experienced the same thing. leave the rest to the others :]

Thanks for commenting Ish. I thought it might be a common experience, as it didn't take much to trigger it.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited November 15, 2013 by OldChi