Why is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit an 'unrepentable' sin ?

[chegg]

This question has hounded me for quite a while.

 

So, you can anger the father, poke fun at Jesus Christ and still be saved, but Insult the Holy Spirt and you can kiss your back-side good bye for eternity !

 

Matthew 12:31, "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

Mark 3:28-30, "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."

Luke 12:10, "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."

 

 

Blasphemy, Defn. is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence

 

 

 

Is this another one of those 'unanswerable riddles' ? Any takers ?

Edited November 9, 2013 by chegg

[Nungali]

( Loose terminology warning : I am using vague words here to convey a meaning , it would take a thesis to explain it properly … but since you asked; )

 

Because the ‘Holy Spirit’ is that internal faculty that connects with our ‘soul’ … it is to do with our own ‘personal development in Wisdom’ ;

 

“He who knoweth little, thinketh he knoweth much; but he who knoweth much hath learned his own ignorance. Seest thou a man wise in his own conceit? There is more hope of a fool, than of him.”

 

And

 

“Nevertheless have the greatest self-respect, and to that end sin not against thyself. The sin which is unpardonable is knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudices.”

 

And

 

“So shalt thou gradually develop the powers of thy soul.”

 

{Liber Librae … the Book of the Balance.}

 

Perhaps the sacred Essene tradition entered a bit into some of Mathew, Mark and Luke's writing?

 

In a way I can relate ... it is a bit like me saying to you, "Okay ... you have lost the plot, blaspheme against me all you like (I can take it ...' I am a big boy now' ) but don't blaspheme against your own sacred ability to recognise truth as if you mess that up ... well

 

Aside; I was surprised that when I did radio broadcasting I had to do a course first, part of it was legal obliugations and I was told that blasphemy was technically still against the Law in Australia - which included you definition but also 'criticism of the Bible" ... even being critical! (of course it is not a law that is enacted but back then it was still on the books ... look out any 'Pussy Riot' girls that come to Australia ... technically ..... )

[chegg]

I am still unsure Nungali. You only get 2 blessings on the karmic-scale-of-good-posts. :wub:

 

 

What if I were to insult the holy spirit then say "oops, sorry about that holy spirit, I hope I wasn't out of line with those insults. I repent, I repent, I didnt mean it, please forgive me, I dont want eternal damnation"

 

According to scripture, it doesnt matter what I say, pray or do, I would now be eternally damned, end of story. That, right there, is some really serious stuff.

 

If the holy spirit widthdraws, it can't/won't re-establish the connection for some reason ?

Edited November 11, 2013 by chegg

[BaguaKicksAss]

Is the holy spirit related to the Hun in any way?

 

Seems many things can scare it/them off...

[idiot_stimpy]

Because what you put out is what you get back.

[h.uriahr]

I am still unsure Nungali. You only get 2 blessings on the karmic-scale-of-good-posts. :wub:

 

 

What if I were to insult the holy spirit then say "oops, sorry about that holy spirit, I hope I wasn't out of line with those insults. I repent, I repent, I didnt mean it, please forgive me, I dont want eternal damnation"

 

According to scripture, it doesnt matter what I say, pray or do, I would now be eternally damned, end of story. That, right there, is some really serious poo.

 

If the holy spirit widthdraws, it can't/won't re-establish the connection for some reason ?

 

Christ said it because it's that important. So important that He doesn't want us to go there at all. Remember that Jehovah is Infinite in every Positive Way. Love and Forgiveness on an Infinite Scale. Once YOU/WE go down the road of self destruction, one that leads to actual blasphemy then you/we will more than likely stay there. Once there we are unable to fulfill God's plan of Loving one another and spreading the Gospel. You/We often times become a stumbling block to several people that will turn away from Him once they see how we fell and are acting while falling or simply by our words after we've hit bottom. The tongue can set the world ablaze with hell fire...and it is HARD to make the turn around successfully. That's my S.Opinion.

[idiot_stimpy]

If God created EVERYTHING, then God must have create both good and evil. The idea of Satan must be INSIDE God's creation.

[Nungali]

I am still unsure Nungali. You only get 2 blessings on the karmic-scale-of-good-posts. :wub:

 

 

What if I were to insult the holy spirit then say "oops, sorry about that holy spirit, I hope I wasn't out of line with those insults. I repent, I repent, I didnt mean it, please forgive me, I dont want eternal damnation"

 

According to scripture, it doesnt matter what I say, pray or do, I would now be eternally damned, end of story. That, right there, is some really serious poo.

 

If the holy spirit widthdraws, it can't/won't re-establish the connection for some reason ?

No offense but I think this karmic-scale-of-good-posts. multiple love smiley thing is a tad wierdsville ... I would be more happy if I got 'awarded' NONE for each post

 

The thing is, your 'what if' and your ' I repent, I repent, I didnt mean it, please forgive me, I dont want eternal damnation" seem irksome to me and besides they are against my Lodge oathed behavioural patterns ... fine for you ... but because that doesn't exist in my universe I cant answer your 'what if' you are stuck with that ... its like asking The Pope about how to fix up for your next reincarnation or the Dali Lama for Holy Communion.

 

So I guess you have a dilemma of conscious ... hmmm it must be tricky for a Christian to know there is at least ONE sin that cant be excused by " I repent, I repent, I didnt mean it, please forgive me, I dont want eternal damnation" (And if I know my Jahovahs he would say; " You should have thought of that before you did it ... it's TOO LATE NOW! "

 

I answered, as best I could, from my perspective, your; "for some reason ?" above.

 

That's all I can do for you ... to commit this sin or not ... it is up to you now ... choose wisely and decide how best not to "knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudices.”

Edited November 10, 2013 by Nungali

[flowing hands]

This question has hounded me for quite a while.

 

So, you can anger the father, poke fun at Jesus Christ and still be saved, but Insult the Holy Spirt and you can kiss your back-side good bye for eternity !

 

 

Matthew 12:31, "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

 

Mark 3:28-30, "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."

 

Luke 12:10, "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."

 

 

Blasphemy, Defn. is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence

 

 

 

Is this another one of those 'unanswerable riddles' ? Any takers ?

 

I shouldn't worry about it! The truth is very different to what is written. There is no such thing as sin, good and bad are concepts only and used by humans for control over others.

Remember the Bible was written by men who lacked understanding of the nature of all things and so what is actually the truth of the matter has been shrouded in rhetoric and misunderstanding.

 

There is no such thing as sin, there is only the way.

[三江源]

.

Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[h.uriahr]

If God created EVERYTHING, then God must have create both good and evil. The idea of Satan must be INSIDE God's creation.

 

This was a very strange concept for me to grasp at first but all of Creation is Good. There are varying degrees of Good but still Good. Good and Evil should really only be used amongst those who have the Spiritual Eyes to see through the Truth of the matter. The Most High Living God Knew what He was doing long before Creation happened.

[h.uriahr]

I shouldn't worry about it! The truth is very different to what is written. There is no such thing as sin, good and bad are concepts only and used by humans for control over others.

Remember the Bible was written by men who lacked understanding of the nature of all things and so what is actually the truth of the matter has been shrouded in rhetoric and misunderstanding.

 

There is no such thing as sin, there is only the way.

 

Lol so the Taoist wanders around in Christian topics....doing what you told me not to do.

 

I completely disagree with your above statement.

[BaguaKicksAss]

If God created EVERYTHING, then God must have create both good and evil. The idea of Satan must be INSIDE God's creation.

 

This is what some Kabbalistic books I have read say.

[thetaoiseasy]

.

Edited March 24, 2014 by thetaoiseasy

[flowing hands]

Lol so the Taoist wanders around in Christian topics....doing what you told me not to do. I completely disagree with your above statement.

 

This is what makes the Dao so great!

[chegg]

 

If God created EVERYTHING, then God must have create both good and evil. The idea of Satan must be INSIDE God's creation.

 

This is what some Kabbalistic books I have read say.

 

 

On a side note, I found this interesting......

 

Christianity: Satan is a Created Being, Created by Jesus: Isaiah 14:12-15; Revelation 12:9; Colossians 1:15-16.

 

Mormonism: Jesus and Satan are Brothers: Gospel Through the Ages, p.15

[chegg]

No offense but I think this karmic-scale-of-good-posts. multiple love smiley thing is a tad wierdsville ... I would be more happy if I got 'awarded' NONE for each post

 

The thing is, your 'what if' and your ' I repent, I repent, I didnt mean it, please forgive me, I dont want eternal damnation" seem irksome to me and besides they are against my Lodge oathed behavioural patterns ... fine for you ... but because that doesn't exist in my universe I cant answer your 'what if' you are stuck with that ... its like asking The Pope about how to fix up for your next reincarnation or the Dali Lama for Holy Communion.

 

So I guess you have a dilemma of conscious ... hmmm it must be tricky for a Christian to know there is at least ONE sin that cant be excused by " I repent, I repent, I didnt mean it, please forgive me, I dont want eternal damnation" (And if I know my Jahovahs he would say; " You should have thought of that before you did it ... it's TOO LATE NOW! "

 

I answered, as best I could, from my perspective, your; "for some reason ?" above.

 

That's all I can do for you ... to commit this sin or not ... it is up to you now ... choose wisely and decide how best not to "knowingly and wilfully to reject truth, to fear knowledge lest that knowledge pander not to thy prejudices.”

 

No offense taken. From now on, I will not 'award' any blessings for you, (but I will save them up for you, just in case you change your mind).

 

As far as the 'eternal damnation for the unrepentable sin' goes, maybe I will just have to accept it without there being a good reason behind it and accept that there are things in life that are just 'irreversible'.

Edited November 11, 2013 by chegg

[chegg]

Holy Spirit perhaps is the very most sacred within us, and we destroy ourselves when we defile that which is the best and highest potential within us.

 

 

Forgiveness has to be received by something that is open and has humility. Perhaps if we defile the very core of our sacred self, we have no mechanism by which to receive forgiveness nor truly feel the need for it.

 

I'm thinking that this structure of 'no redemption' would not be merely punitive, it must imply a broken - ness beyond repair.

 

 

 

Sounds rather plausible Cat. Have some blessings from the karmic-scale-of-good-posts: :wub:

 

The feeling I get from the way its written in the bible is that its more of a 'permanant divorce' but a 'broken - ness' is probably ok too.

[3bob]

without reading all the posts I'd say the main cause of feeling a dichotomy is because of attachment to duality, for instance heaven and hell seen as being the final reality... but with non-duality, which btw. is big enough to contain relative duality, there is ultimately no separation, either momentarily or eternally. (for all under the One is under the One, thus not a single thing is outside the One, along with the One being under --no--thing--.

Edited November 11, 2013 by 3bob

[dawei]

part of the problem with the passages provided is there is no context given before those shown...

 

The context is Jesus had cast out demons from a man but the pharisees wanted to claim it was done by the work of the devil. Jesus pointed out that "a house divided will not stand"... meaning: Evil will not cast out Evil... It was a nonsense argument by the pharisees.

 

My take, having been away from these readings for many years, was that the blasphemy was to claim works of the demons or even perform works of the demons. In other words, to follow the 'morning star' in his fall to become Lucifer would not be forgiven... Lucifer could never be turned back from the darkside... nor his followers...

[LeoViridis]

This question has hounded me for quite a while.

 

So, you can anger the father, poke fun at Jesus Christ and still be saved, but Insult the Holy Spirt and you can kiss your back-side good bye for eternity !

 

 

Matthew 12:31, "Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men."

 

Mark 3:28-30, "Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme: But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit."

 

Luke 12:10, "And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven."

 

 

Blasphemy, Defn. is the act of insulting or showing contempt or lack of reverence

 

 

 

Is this another one of those 'unanswerable riddles' ? Any takers ?

 

 

I personally don't think there is any sin that cannot be forgiven. Sure, you have to pay for your ill deeds at a certain point, but after that, you are forgiven. I find the concept of an "eternal grudge" a bit too extreme. The problem though is the payment for the things you may have done. The price for your actions can be very high.

 

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Edited November 12, 2013 by LeoViridis

[Cheshire Cat]

The Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit is the "Power", the "function", the propulsive energy for preaching and teaching.

 

If you read the gospels, you see that it's the most fundamental thing: Jesus started his messianic activity after receiving it, and the apostles also began their mission AFTER getting the holy spirit at Pentecost.

This shows that the Holy Ghost is the hidden power of christianity.

To say bad things about Jesus, the doctrine, the apostles, etc... means that you don't like the way they did things, but still you may fundamentally appreciate the intention of the Holy Ghost of spreading christianity and supporting this messianic message.

 

If you don't like the activity of the Holy Ghost means that you don't want to take part in this messianic movement... and the original teachings stressed the fact that the only sin that cannot be forgotten is the one in which you actually leave christianity.

Practically, once you're out of christianity, you cannot receive another baptism to come back.

 

Therefore, blasphemy against the holy spirit means the factual intention to leave christianity.

[idiot_stimpy]

 

“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”

 

[9th]

My take, having been away from these readings for many years, was that the blasphemy was to claim works of the demons or even perform works of the demons. In other words, to follow the 'morning star' in his fall to become Lucifer would not be forgiven... Lucifer could never be turned back from the darkside... nor his followers...

 

 

The idea of Lucifer as a fallen angel does not come from the Bible. It is from Milton's "Paradise Lost".

 

Lucifer is a latin name for "Venus", literally "light bringer", because it is the brightest object in the night sky apart from the sun and moon, and is still visible at dawn.

 

 

 

How then did “Lucifer” get into the Bible? The word is actually Latin. It comes from the words

lux

(light/fire) and

ferre

(to bear/to bring) and when put together means bearer of light or bringer of fire. Lucifer is also one the Latin names for the morning star, Venus. As it turns out, so is the Greek word

Eosphorus.

 

At length as the Morning Star (Eosphorus) was beginning to herald the light which saffron-mantled Dawn was soon to suffuse over the sea, the flames fell and the fire began to die. -

Homer, The Iliad, Book 23

And after these Erigenia bare the star Eosphorus, and the gleaming stars with which heaven is crowned. -

Hesiod, Theogony

 

When Jerome translated the biblical manuscripts in his Latin Vulgate, he believed the shining born of the dawn in Isaiah spoke of the morning star and so replaced the Hebrew and Greek meaning with the Latin name of the planet. If we were to do the same with our modern day translations, we would write “how you have fallen from heaven, O Venus, son of the morning.”

 

Notice that Lucifer is used in 2 Peter 1:19 in Jerome’s Vulgate just as it is used in Isaiah 14:12 to replace the Hebrew

heilel.

Here is the English:

 

Moreover, we possess the prophetic word as an altogether reliable thing. You do well if you pay attention to this as you would to a light shining in a murky place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. -

2 Peter 1:19

 

The morning star rising in the hearts of Yahweh’s people is a direct reference to Numbers 24:17 and describes the coming of Christ. The Greek word for morning star in 2 Peter 1:19 is

eosphoros.

If you recall, this is the same word used by the writers of the Septuagint to translate

heilel

in Isaiah 14:12 and is the name of the planet Venus in Greek. If “Lucifer” is a correct rendering in Isaiah 14:12, then it is correct in 2 Peter 1:19 also (just as Jerome translates it). And so we have the first place where scripture calls Yeshua Lucifer. But that is not the only place.

 

And to the one who conquers and who continues in my deeds until the end…I will give him the morning star. -

Revelation 2:26a, 28b

I, Jesus, have sent my angel to testify to you about these things for the churches. I am the root and the descendant of David, the bright morning star -

Revelation 22:16

 

A word for the morning star in Latin, as we have seen, is Lucifer. So according to Yeshua’s own words, not only will those who follow him receive Lucifer, but Lucifer is a name for Yeshua himself. There is even more reason to believe that Lucifer is an appropriate translation in Revelation 22:16 because the Greek in that verse is “orthrinos aster,” which is a Greek epithet for Venus.

 

So in conclusion, Lucifer is another name for Venus,

Eosphorus,

and

Heilel.

It describes the second planet, the morning star. While Yeshua is metaphorically likened to it in 2 Peter and Revelation, King Nebuchadnezzar receives this honor in Isaiah 14. Unfortunately, Satan is never given such distinction.

[dawei]

The idea of Lucifer as a fallen angel does not come from the Bible. It is from Milton's "Paradise Lost".

 

I do have a soft spot for Paradise Lost... despite that Norman Douglas in his Old Calabria showed Milton appears to have built the story off an Italian original story

 

And despite that Milton was blind by the time he wrote Paradise Lost, he most likely read these passages in the bible to embellish the Italian story:

 

New American Standard: "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!" -- Isaiah 14:12

 

Cross:

 

Revelation 9:1

The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.

Luke 10:18

He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

 

 

Unforgiven angle:

 

2 Peter 2:4:

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down"