Author Tom Bisio?

[soaring crane]

Hi,

 

I've been poking around online looking for interesting books and came across this author. I assume he's known to many Bums, and was wondering what you all might think of his work. I clicked through the previews of his Bagua book at Amazon and thought it looked quite good!

[BaguaKicksAss]

Yep, his books are awesome .

 

There's a few threads on here where he comes up (if you would like more detail).

[soaring crane]

Cool, thanks BKA! I did search for threads but came up blank. Gonna order two books today. :-)

[cheya]

His book on treatment for injuries (Tooth from the Tiger's Mouth) is a must have, and his book on TuiNa is excellent as well...but too much like WORK for this therapist! :-)

 

Check out these search results for other TaoBums threads on Bisio:

http://search.aol.com/aol/search?s_it=searchbox.webhome&v_t=na&q=site%3Athetaobums.com++Bisio

 

(Check out the set up on that search. It's a real handy way to search a site that has a less than stellar search function.)

[soaring crane]

 

 

(Check out the set up on that search. It's a real handy way to search a site that has a less than stellar search function.)

 

ahhhh... you know, I actually know that, but I never think of it when I need it! Thanks for the reminder

[寒月 Hanyue]

I'm probably going to get slammed for my view and opinion again

 

But I feel that this is what a forum is for, and if someone is asking for others views then they should hear what others have to say.

 

I have several of Bisio's books. I know people who studied some of his tuina too. I will try to provide my view and some of my reasons for those views, so people know I'm not simply hating on the guy.

 

Tooth from the Tigers Mouth:

 

Is an excellent book. I love this book, if you are interested in good legit Chinese dieda medicine this book is simply awesome. I cannot recommend this book enough. Given that oddly enough I have had broken bones etc come into my clinic, I have found this book helpful.

 

Zheng Gu Tuina:

 

I went to much trouble to get this book, lets leave it at that. All I can say, is I was highly disappointed and I'm not a fan. Maybe I've been spoilt by what I've been taught in person by my own teachers, but I just don't like this book. It is however intended as a textbook for those studying the Zheng Gu courses with Tom etc, and so as a study aid for hands on instruction I think it would be awesome. But as a stand alone book, I don't recommend it.

 

Circle Walking Bagua

 

Again, highly disappointed. This is material taken from his blog, and the whole book was put together in 6 month after interviewing the Bagua master that inspired it. Meaning it is not written from direct experience so much as crafted around the salient points made by the Master. I personally found the whole interview, rather than the cherry picked aspects that Tom runs with, far more interesting and insightful, and FREE on Tom's blog. The format of the book also put me off, it was clear that many parts of the book were cut and past jobs re-edited from other articles posted on his blog. As a book it simply felt messy. I have also spent time consuming most of the works that Tom cites and uses to expound upon the Masters insights. As such I found reading it was not as insightful as it could have been had I not read all that other material.

 

There are interesting things in the book, and Tom does cover material not often discussed which is nice. So depending upon your familiarity on these things, this book may be a simple way to get an overview of many sources. I do however recommend reading his blog first.

 

Nei Gong Zhen Chuan (a translation)

 

I like the text he translates, I like the fact that the Chinese is included. I do not however like or agree with many of the choices made in translating or explaining it. I feel there are some very great leaps in speculation that will lead to mis-understanding made in this book. These same speculations are often then also quoted to support views in Tom's other books, such as the one above on circle walking. Translating is hard, but when I look at the Chinese I just don't see what they end up with in English, they add A LOT that simply isn't there.

 

Everyone sees through the filter of their own experience and training when reading old texts (or even modern books). This is unavoidable and inevitable.

 

Decoding the Dao:

 

I don't have this book. But given the above trend to rehash blog articles as published books, and given that I have and did read the entire blog article series called Decoding the Dao, which were lessons in Daoist meditation. I can only assume that those articles have become this book. I did not agree, based on my own experiences and teachers teachings, with the view Tom gave. And it shifted my view of his understanding of these matters greatly. Rightly or wrongly. It simply wasn't compatible in a direct sense to what I am doing, and so was not helpful. That does not of course it cannot be helpful to others.

 

Overall, I'm glad people like Tom are putting out these books. And If I didn't have the teachers I do, then I would probably find them far more helpful and better than I do.

Edited December 17, 2013 by snowmonki

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'm curious what you have thought of his videos?

[寒月 Hanyue]

I'm curious what you have thought of his videos?

 

Mmm, people in glass houses....

 

Tom is far better at what he does than I am (he's been at it far longer too, does that count? ). However I'm not sure why, but I have never liked his movement. I see that there is something there, certainly far more than many people out there. But I also see something lacking but can't put my finger on it. He knows a lot, but I would not learn from him or seek him out for study even if he lived in my town.

 

Best,

[adept]

I've noticed in the IMA community his material is not well thought of.

Check out Rum Soaked Fist forums.

[joeblast]

I loved his bagua circle walking nei gung book, I got a ton out of it.

[soaring crane]

I've noticed in the IMA community his material is not well thought of.

Check out Rum Soaked Fist forums.

 

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=20610&p=343302&hilit=Tom+bisio&sid=3c64948c915e023ddf91c12d531a5656#p343302

 

The only hit I got when I searched his name at the forum... Doesn't seem overly critical to me ;-)

[soaring crane]

I've now got the Bagua book plus Decoding the Dao and the Tiger Tooth book. I'll write more later but I'm basically quite happy with all three of them. The Bagua book does have a homemade feel to it, I can believe that it was cobbled together out of blog posts, but the information seems quite solid, and even quite advanced for essentially an introductory book.

 

Decoding the Dao is good stuff, imo. I can't say there's anything revolutionary or even new in it, but the material is presented very clearly and well organized. I've had more than a couple ah-hah moments while reading it, due to the way the information is formulated. His style seems to jibe with me.

 

I haven't had any real use for the Tiger book yet but I've perused it pretty thoroughly and can only reiterate what was already written about it - wow!

 

I think if I had the opportunity, I'd feel comfortable going to him for instruction.

Edited December 17, 2013 by soaring crane

[BaguaKicksAss]

I guess the question would really be... how are they compared with other books on these topics?

 

Sure Bisio's aren't perfect, but they *are* books afterall, which from what I have found never do come close to in person teaching.. so I'm curious to hear about the comparisons....

[寒月 Hanyue]

Hey JB, yeah I saw your post in another thread about it when browsing this morning. All I can say is different strokes for different folks??

 

As I said in my post, if I hadn't read all the books Bisio has taken from to compile that one, then I'd probably have been more impressed. So if anyone wants to cut down on costs and reading time, then sure his book maybe a good primer. But the info is still naturally filtered through the authors perspective (as with all authors), and I don't always agree with what I see in what he says. I'm being as diplomatic as possible, because in all fairness what we hear or read from someone isn't always what they are intent or are trying to say.

 

BKA,

 

I'm not a fan of any martial art book that tries to teach you. I'm not really a fan of a lot of qigong books that attempt it either.

 

It's not that I think much of it can't be expresses in a book, but for some reason most authors either don't really go there, or simply fail. By comparison I've read some great Western books on various body-somatic modalities that explain many of the wugong neigong concepts that some feel cannot be expressed in a book.

 

[i separate wugong neigong (martial inner work) from Dao neigong (Daoist inner work), though the two are often blended.]

 

I am a fan of He Jing Han, and his interview in Alex's book further down the post, is worth the price of that book regardless of all the other stuff in it. However, this book on 'Bagua Daoyin' was also a massive disappointment and I really don't like it. Yes it has a few bits in it, but I think it really misses its potential in its attempts to portray a moving dao yin set.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bagua-Daoyin-Unique-Branch-Learning/dp/1848190093/ref=pd_sim_b_2

 

I recall enjoying Park Bok Nam's books when I read them years ago, but have no idea if i'd feel the same these days.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Fundamentals-Pa-Kua-Chang-v/dp/1883175011/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1387326864&sr=8-2&keywords=park+bok+nam

 

The old Bagua Journal by Park's student Miller and Dr Fish is still treasure trove of info on Bagua, neigong etc

 

I like reading Sun Lu Tang's works, which are Daoist rather than martial. But given the views I've seen expressed of them, they appear to cause more confusion than not with people.

 

I also liked 'Combat Techniques' when I read it many years ago, not as a directly practical step by step book. But in much of its discussions of qi and jin and li, and in understanding how many layers of practice weave together. Again, if I read it today I don't know if i'd feel the same.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Combat-Techniques-Tai-Xing-Gua/dp/1583941452/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387326752&sr=8-1-fkmr0&keywords=combat+strategies+xing+yi+bagua

 

Bruce's 2nd book in his Daoist meditation series lays out the foundation of his bagua stepping/walking. It is similar in certain ways to Yiquan walking, but then Yiquan stepping comes from Bagua. I never got around to reading Bruce book on Bagua and Tai chi and so can't comment upon that.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Great-Stillness-Method-Meditation/dp/1556434081/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1387327478&sr=8-7&keywords=bruce+frantzis

 

I read Allen's 'Whirling Circles' simply for the info on Liu Hong Jie and Bruce's Bagua. The practical side of the book regarding bagua is largely crap. But the info on the Water method Bagua neigong is short but nice. If you look for Allen's views on Bruce, he has in more recent years come out against Bruce and his system, make of that what you will.

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/The-Whirling-Circles-Gua-Zhang/dp/1583941894/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387326886&sr=8-1&keywords=whirling+circles

 

If you take the Dao neigong out of the physical form of the 'Energy Gates' set, ie the outer dissolving process, and work with the 'pumping' stepping Bruce lays out, then expand on that with Allen's methods, then I think it would do a hell of a lot for people, without much of the apparent other fancy things. And that is without adding the bamuzhang to the top half.

 

These days I prefer books that discuss other aspects, rather than try to teach or convey a form in a book. To this end I love the works by Alex Kozma;

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Warrior-Guards-Mountain-Internal-Traditions/dp/1848191243

 

Is fantastic...

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1874250952/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_2?pf_rd_p=103612307&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1848191243&pf_rd_m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE&pf_rd_r=0Q7DYTM23NEXYWRYEZC3

 

Is a classic...

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Beyond-Mysterious-Gate-Hidden-Fighting/dp/0954837703/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1387328849&sr=1-6

 

Is also fantastic....

 

There is also now this from Alex..

 

http://www.warriorguardsthemountain.com/#!films/c1yvt

 

As well as his friend Robert Sheaffer, whose book I started a new thread on;

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Methods-Heavenly-Dragon-Robert-Sheaffer/dp/1848191278/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387327259&sr=8-1&keywords=ten+methods+of+the+heavenly+dragon

 

Or O'Brien's collection;

 

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nei-Jia-Quan-Internal-Martial/dp/1583941991/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1387327814&sr=8-1&keywords=nei+jia+quan

 

The best, and free!, resource on Bagua is Andrew's youtube channel.

 

But it depends on whether Yin shi rocks your boat or not. I don't do bagua zhang. And just as Bisio's movement has never appealed, the movement of Yin shi Bagua doesn't appeal to me either. Besides, these days I don't have time to practice martial arts.

 

Hardly comprehensive, but then for someone who doesn't do bagua?? It just keeps turning up when I'm interesting in neigong

 

Best,

Edited December 18, 2013 by snowmonki

[寒月 Hanyue]

Decoding the Dao is good stuff, imo. I can't say there's anything revolutionary or even new in it, but the material is presented very clearly and well organized. I've had more than a couple ah-hah moments while reading it, due to the way the information is formulated. His style seems to jibe with me.

 

I went and took a look on Amazon to see just what is in this book in comparisons to the blog posts I read.

 

It looks like a very comprehensive book, and covers a lot of important stuff. It certainly looks more complete than the blog posts, which is a good thing.

 

The only thing that bothered me a little was his blending of terms. He states Daoist meditation is also called neigong, which is also neidan, and later also yangsheng.

 

Whatever teachings Bisio has had access to shows through in his biases within the book. When he quotes a wonderful passage that contains a very important insight in Daoist practice, he misses, or prefer not to mention the higher level perspective that it is referring to and explains it as a reference to 'breath', and then discusses the importance of breathing. Which I felt was a shame.

 

For a book laying out the foundational hou-tian (post-heaven) aspects of Dao yin as they pertain to "meditation" I think this book will go a long way to help. As far as actual Dao gong and a higher level or xian-tian (pre-heaven) perspective goes, you will have to look elsewhere. This is not a criticism, it is simply pointing out what is and is not in the book.

 

It will be going on my wishlist, as I'm a sucker for books.

 

Best,

[寒月 Hanyue]

"Embedded within the martial art Ba Gua Zhang is a complete system of internal exercises that promote self-healing and longevity and transform consciousness. Ba Gua Nei Gong consists of nine powerful and profound methods of internal exercise and self-cultivation."

 

The Nine levels, or methods are;

1. Ba Gua yin & yang patting neigong
2. Ba Gua dao yin (guiding leading) neigong
3. Ba Gua qi cultivation and standing neigong
4. Ba Gua 12 posture standing neigong
5. Ba Gua ji ben neigong
6. Ba Gua Circle walking meridian opening neigong

7. Ba Gua tian gan (heavenly stem) neigong

8. Ba Gua marrow washing neigong

9. Ba Gua golden fluid returning to dantian neigong & Daoist Meditation

Which are being released in the 8 volume series;

1. Ba Gua Neigong Vol 1: yin & yang patting & dao yin exercises
2. Ba Gua Neigong Vol 2: qi cultivation exercises and standing meditation
3. Ba Gua Neigong Vol 3: 12 posture standing neigong
4. Ba Gua Neigong Vol 4: foundational body training
5. Ba Gua Neigong Vol 5: tian gan neigong
6. Ba Gua Neigong Vol 6: marrow washing neigong
7. Ba Gua Circle walking neigong:

8. Decoding the Dao

So that's how the titles relate to each other. It is interesting to see how someone from a different line (Gao primarily) of Bagua relates these dao yin practices together and so forth.

[soaring crane]

 

 

 

The only thing that bothered me a little was his blending of terms. He states Daoist meditation is also called neigong, which is also neidan, and later also yangsheng

 

Best,

 

 

Well, if that's your only criticism of the book, I'll take it as a glowing recommendation :-)

 

Terminology isn't a concern for me at all anymore. Not because I don't value it, quite the contrary. I appreciate linguistic accuracy and authenticity above all else, but living where I do and with my extremely limited access to authorative sources, I have to take what I can,and if the practice is described in a logical, repeatable fashion, then it would be silly of me to discount it because the Chinese description isn't traditionally recognized. You know what I mean?

 

That said, Bisio doesn't actually use those terms interchangeably as your post would lead one to believe. There's not a lot of use of any of them in any event. But first get the book and then maybe you'll see what I mean here.

 

Edited December 23, 2013 by soaring crane

[寒月 Hanyue]

You're absolutely right, my comment is only based on the preview amazon allows. As mentioned, in numerous places in that preview he equates terms. Maybe the book as a whole paints a different picture, which is good to know. My post is not or was not intended to be review, it is a comment only. Maybe I should have kept it to myself.

 

Given that everyone and their dog has their own way of viewing such terms, it isn't important in the big picture. As mentioned, it is not to comment that doing so is wrong or incorrect, it is simply something I find odd myself.

 

I've posted the stages and volumes of books, since this provides insight into the relationships of what Tom is publishing and I found it insightful to see the bigger picture he is presenting. I have short intros to most of the Daoyin neigong in the tuina book, but it is nice to see that such sets will be presented more thoroughly and stand alone for people.

 

My curiosity sometimes gets the better of me, so I may get Decoding the Daoat some point, probably more to see more of his interpretation of cosmology rather than meditation. If I do, ill post a review.

 

I look forward to hearing more of your thoughts and insights after youve had a chance to digest the book. If you have the time and feel inclined.

 

Happy practising, and reading.

 

Best,

[Friend]

Nei Gong Zhen Chuan

This one has to be read with google

or with an acupuncuture book as it

mention lots of points and structure allignment

which had been better done with a drawing.

The reader has to expect to know the Triagrams

and TCM good. Also it look like notes.

 

I think it is better explained when someone

shows it personally as the whole stuff takes less

than ten minutes from a teacher of a

Bagua Lineage when doing a correction.

 

The reading is exhausting and time consuming.

A summary had been nice after each chapter

since the definition of the terms alone

making losing the connection of application.

 

For me it has little use except the pointer

on page 65 by using breathing to draw Yongquan (K1)

to work on Zhen Qi but well other methods use similar

methods.

 

More use is the third scroll in the book

especially I took into awareness by the words of

"When attack there is falling and fear"

which is quite useful when one has developed the force

that maintain the body errect and gives at least

the useful of martial arts practise to raise the confrontation abillity

to resist treatening force and maintain balance.

 

Update:

I also read now also the Circle Walking Book

as well Snowmonki comments on amazon.

I see that the goal of the book seem only to present

the Meridans and the posture to work on two meridians

at the same time which is a similar idea as Erle Montaique

but having a stimulating of one Meridian mostly:

http://www.taijiworld.com/tai-chi-healing.html

 

A thing is ... I can not find the blog from Mr. Bisio with google - help please!

 

Also for circle walkers I would recommend something "Japanese"

"Nanba Aruki"

http://www.tofugu.com/2012/07/24/namba-aruki-samurai-walk/

http://www.tofugu.com/guides/namba-aruki/

 

This may helpful for arts such as Xinyi, Wing Chun as well.

 

I tell you to be extreme careful with changing walking as in kinesiology

this sort of walk considered unilateral as I understand and is draining

and can damage health. For example when I change the walking recently

because of my relaxed carring, the stuff would slip out of arms as it weakens.

So you can guess if one walk normally with opposite arm and legs lifting

and start fighting one may have a disadvantage to use a "uni-lateral" technique

 

One need to balance this with which is about using

12 times same arm and same lifting (uni-lateral) and the double amount

24 times lifting the opposite arm and leg at the same time.(bi- lateral)

(Donna Eden- Energy Medicine)

This is to make avaible on is strong when one do bi-lateral stuff.

 

You can say it is unwise to sit crosslegged on the floor while the system

is running uni-lateral, the meditation will void and deplete ones system.

From this I have try a bit around and found that with reversing

12 times and bi-lateral and then 24 times will polarize to uni-lateral.

It is just the polarisation doesnt lead to right balance.

 

Actually it is best to be strong either uni-lateral and bi-lateral.

So to balance this one do several times bi-lateral and uni-lateral balancing

and switch back and forth until both are strong.

 

How to explain strong without a partner doing muscle test?

It is a feeling that one feels first awake and second that the movements

seem to be more easy and almost rise from its own while the body

is errect when strong but slump when weak.

 

Other source I would recommend is to look into Alexander Technique

and the use of two chairs on both side of the body and do marching.

This is used to learn and correct the body to have the hip and shoulders

are on the same level, such as above in the links for Nanba Walking.

I think this may boost your practise.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Friend

[soaring crane]

Nei Gong Zhen Chuan ... The reading is exhausting and time consuming. A summary had been nice after each chapter since the definition of the terms alone making losing the connection of application....

 

A thing is ... I can not find the blog from Mr. Bisio with google - help please!

 

That seems to be a common complaint at amazon.

 

here's the website (that I know of) http://www.internalartsinternational.com/

 

I tried to join but got error messages from paypal.

 

Regarding the mix up with 'Daoist meditation', Neigong, Yangsheng and Neidan, this is what he writes on pg 6:

 

"Daoist meditation, sometimes called Nei Gong or "inner exercise" is often considered to be more efficacious [than qigong] in replenishing the vital essences of the body and was traditionally seen as a kind of internal alchemy that changed the body from the inside-out.'

...

 

"Once a state of good health is achieved, Daoist longevity practices known collectively as Yang Sheng or "life nourishing methods" can be employed to replenish one's primordial Qi up to and even beyond the level one had at birth"

 

I don't have a problem with the Yangsheng usage but I'd be more than happy to be educated on the matter and, either I have a blind spot or he doesn't use 'Neidan' until he writes about elixir later in the book with afaik is correct. That's how I use the word when I use it.

 

I guess, from that short passage, a reader could come away with the impression that "Daoist meditation" and "Neigong" are synonymous, though. He could have written it the other way around ie 'Neigong is a subcategory of Daoist meditation'(?).

 

So another question: Till now, I've understood Neigong simply to be the catch-all term for the internal work, especially from the Daoist martial side, but with many many branches. It comes up mainly when I'm at Chansijing workshops. But it seems to me like Tao Bums speak of Neigong as a more specific system, like a form unto itself. Maybe I just misunderstand the conversation at the forum?

 

 

PS - I had opened the Namba Aruki links in a separate tab and just looked at them now. Good stuff! :-)

 

http://www.tofugu.co...i-samurai-walk/

http://www.tofugu.co...es/namba-aruki/

Edited December 23, 2013 by soaring crane

[BaguaKicksAss]

Just read his Bagua Neigong book (hadn't read that one before).

 

Good if you don't have a teacher. So good intro if you are new to Bagua and/or qigong and/or TCM related to Bagua. Probably want to get the vids to accompany it though.

 

If you do have a teacher, you already know all this (and what the hell you doing trying to train more than one system anyways? )

[soaring crane]

Semantic errors notwithstanding, I'm really quite impressed with Decoding the Dao. It's a very good book. And the footnotes/bibliography are top notch. I like the guy :-)

[BaguaKicksAss]

His translation of Nei Gong the Authentic class rocks! Well tbh I have no idea how good the translation is, but the words and concepts therein are pretty awesome. Highly recommended.

 

Though again, it is all stuff your teacher should have covered with you...