hatred vs. apathy

[roger]

I have strong feelings about this, and I'm interested in what you all have to say about it. It applies to nearly all people, because almost no one truly loves everyone unconditionally, including myself. Problems have arisen within me about this issue recently, and I really want to resolve it once and for all.

 

I heard a guy on the radio once say that "hatred is not the opposite of love, apathy is."

 

I feel somewhat threatened and offended by this statement, and I strongly disagree with it. I think my fear and anger have to do with the fact that I have dealt with both hatred and apathy within myself, and I honestly feel that it is far more SELF-loving to be apathetic towards another than it is to hate them.

 

One thing is that many crimes, including two of the very worst, murder and rape, are often committed out of hatred, not apathy.

 

People with hatred often have a strong desire for the people they hate to suffer, and take great pleasure when they do. When you're apathetic you just don't care.

 

It isn't nearly as painful to be apathetic towards a person as it is to hate them.

 

I can't fully explain this, but I think the idea that hatred is more "loving" than apathy arises out of the illusion of separation and the false belief that to love oneself and to love others are not the same. The truth is that what is best for and loving towards oneself is best for and loving towards all. This is a great truth, and if it were not true then love would be a fallacy, an illusion. This might be why I'm offended by the idea (although I know intellectually that I have no reason to be).

 

I disagree with the teaching that people "should" try to love all others unconditionally. For one thing, it isn't practical. Osho said that Christianity is the religion of hypocrites because they preach unconditional love but don't practice it. Jesus said, "love your enemies," but almost no one actually does this.

 

I've noticed within myself that when I feel guilty about not loving another, it can become hatred towards them. Anger arises when one feels guilty and ashamed about being apathetic.

 

Is it more loving to hate your enemies than it is to be apathetic towards them? I think the idea that it is is both absurd and dangerous.

 

 

 

 

I thought of something else.

 

Love is free. We should give ourselves the freedom both to love and to not love. It isn't loving to "demand" of oneself to love. That's makes one NOT love. But in freedom, with the freedom to or not to love, then we can love.

Edited November 13, 2013 by roger

[三江源]

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Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

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Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[Cheshire Cat]

The opposite of Love is Lust. More often than not, they coexist in different measures.

 

The opposite of hatred is the Will to protect.

 

The opposite of apathy is the sense of duty.

[3bob]

off the main subject, but Osho doesn't (didn't) have a leg or a even a clean toenail to stand on when it comes to giving advice or making such comparisons!!! I suggest you do your research on him before quoting him.

[3bob]

spiritual darkness is spiritual light twisted up to where it doesn't shine...

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Marblehead]

Better to love (with justification) than be apathetic; better to be apathetic than be hateful.

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Cheshire Cat]

 

The opposite of Love is Lust. I dont think Lust is the opposite of Love in relation to how I feel about my mother.

To understand the relation between love and lust means to be able to control one's own sexual energy.

you're not supposed to be able to do so. :-)

 

Often, people misinterpret "attachment" for love... especially when it's about relatives.

 

 

 

 

The opposite of hatred is the Will to protect Definitely not. I have suffered intense hatred for a person whilst protecting him..

That sound like a sort of psychosis :-D

Hatred is not something that "you suffer"... that thing is called frustration.

 

 

 

The opposite of apathy is the sense of duty. You are speaking behaviourally. Apathy is the behavioural opposite from Duty.Duty is not an emotional state, it is a concept.. apathy is an emotional state.Duty and apathy do not originate from the same realms and dont have a root relationship.

 

No, the "sense of duty" is an emotional state. Something that you "feel" it's necessary to do

For example, when you feel that it's important to pay taxes... or generally to give money to those who "deserve".

Edited November 13, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Cheshire Cat]

Thanks roger, for bringing this up.

 

 

You're so lovely

 

 

Edited November 13, 2013 by DAO rain TAO

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Stosh]

Some of the things people categorize as 'opposite' may not really be such ,,

Rhetorically..

ex.. is red the opposite of blue ,or is green the opposite of red ?

or are all of them colors and the opposite is black ?

or are all of them less than the total of white light so the opposite is white?

 

If you were ever a kid who made sandcastles or snowmen or played little piano tunes just to yourself,,

you knew these things had no permanence , you participated just to play

As folks get older they start trying to do things that are "important"

like correcting spelling ,or injustice, or making others act nice.

they begin to worry if the tenor of a forum is tense or pointless

,whether the sun is out ,or if its cloudy.

But when one remembers to remember that all their efforts go from dust to dust ,

the issue of whether anything matters ,shows its dark face

One then can either freeze-up , immobilized by the transience - OR - choose to drift and play like they did when they were little.

Edited November 13, 2013 by Stosh

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Maybe the issue is what the guy on the radio meant by love. It seems he was just trying to be quotable on the radio, but seemed to be talking about loving something as being passionate about it, rather than meaning compassion. So apathy is a total absence of passion about something, while hatred abandons compassion for something.

 

Basically, maybe he didn't mean love as in compassion, but love as in passion for something.

 

But as to the crux of the question, there's some complicated possibilities, like hating someone because you want them to change so badly for the good of all, and this resulting from compassionate principles of upholding the greater good. To just not care if they change or not might indicate that there is no concern for the welfare of the greater good, nor for that person's waste of potential.

 

Also, though hatred is certainly not love, it might actually stem from love for someone else, like hating an aggressor because of love for the victim. Apathy doesn't care what happens to either side.

 

So, yes, hatred towards a person is worse than apathy towards them, but to be someone who hates versus someone who is apathetic, at least the hater usually has love for one side, while the apathetic doesn't care about either.

 

 

-- thought I was going to disagree, but on thinking about it....

[PLB]

Sometimes, hatred and apathy are not mutually exclusive. The most dangerous people I have met were bored out of their minds and looking for any escape from it. They didn't properly own their hate the way someone does when one recognizes someone who is working against them. But it was obvious to me that they hated all those who didn't live as they did.

 

Depression has a similar dynamic. It doesn't care about your intentions, it reacts to whatever one does to reject that life for themselves.

[Marblehead]

Both love and hate require us to be emotionally involved. Apathy requires nothing.

[3bob]

if karma is an unbreakable, incorruptible law and one fully accepts that as fact then they would also deeply know that an incorruptible justice will come to pass among all karmically bound parties through a karmic process, perhaps not as they think it should be done but that is where one's true faith (in karma as a universal law) would have to span the gap and help one move away from generating further karmas such as that linked to hatred. (this also ties into the saying of, "not my will..." )

[C T]

Apathy requires nothing.

I disagree.

 

If it requires nothing, it wont have the force it has to eat an apathy-prone person from the inside out. And, this is the case with all those who have reached that level where nothing seems to matter anymore. Their insides have been eaten away. This is definitely not 'nothing'.

[三江源]

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Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[3bob]

good point Cat, and there is a tangent saying along the lines of an idle (or bored) mind being the playground of the devil...

[Rara]

I find myselfapathetic about a lot of stuff. I simply don't care about a lot of stuff (mainly petty things) But I know people are offended by my apathy.

 

But deep down I love all...but am just apathetic due to my belief that most stuff is quite petty and doesn't require my attention.

 

Am I bad? Lol

[三江源]

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Edited July 8, 2014 by cat

[Rara]

What about the frustration of wanting everyone to be on the same page , or ahead of you.

 

This is lack of compassion, then, that others may be on a different page or not even in the same text.

 

Presumably if one is sufficiently nourished, there is no apathy nor no frustration.

 

Rara, not sweating the small stuff is considered a talent!

 

Thing is, apathy is a creeping thing... it can send out tentacles that one doesnt notice and suddenly whoooosh one has ben hijacked.. into incipient inertia.

What I recognize as petty or trivial (from Taoist study) is not always seen by the ones describing events to me the same way. So they take offence to my attitude as it means something to them.

 

My choices are to be honest (apathetic) or fake enthusiasm....neither are pretty but I choose apathy in this case...

[mike 134]

The opposite of positive is negative, not neutral.

 

The opposite of love is hate, not apathy.

 

Hatred is much better than apathy. If you really hate something then it gives you the motivation to do something about it. But if you are apathetic you just sit around on your ass, not giving a damn about anything.