hatred vs. apathy

[Marblehead]

Hatred is much better than apathy. If you really hate something then it gives you the motivation to do something about it. But if you are apathetic you just sit around on your ass, not giving a damn about anything.

Good point although I will stick with my understanding that apathy is better than hatred. Hatred will eat you up inside if you cannot satisfy that hatred.

[Stosh]

Well on one hand youve got the person who thinks everything is of dire importance and runs around manic trying to rectify every little darn thing to some state that they can find satisfaction with.

If they were successful, they wouldnt have anything to do and so they would sit around feeling that everything was important but could do nothing about it.

On the other hand youve got the person who cares so little, zero, about everything that they make no moves whatsoever and again are left with nothing to do but they arent upset about it.

 

What to do about the motivations that arise , the tiny whims or powerful desires,, are the answers to the ultimate question.

Conventional belief is to chase after the dreams forever unfulfilled for long, from fix to fix,, Not controling ones internal state but trying instead to get the external into harmony with the ever shifting internal motivation.

 

The reverse is to be satisfied and not needing to chase what cant be kept, and controling ones internal motivations to suit what the external world offers.

 

One fits with tao, the other is conventional.

[Seth Ananda]

Hmm. I think they are all false binaries to a degree, but...

 

When I love something I care deeply for it. To me the opposite of that is apathy, in that I have gone so far in the other direction from caring that I am not even slightly concerned about anything at all to do with it...

 

I personally see Hatred as a twisted expression of Love, as tied to love and not really loves opposite.

 

 

So many people who hate someone used to love them, and are deeply hurt by their history. Part of what fuels their rage is that on some level they still care, they are still tied to that person by some deep bond.

 

Another analogy is the rebel who is still totally invested in the nature of what he rebelled from. He is not actually free of it, thus he does not represent the opposite of what it was he rebelled from in the first place. She wont be that things opposite until she is really free of its grip on her existence...

 

maybe Slavery and Freedom would explain it better? A slave who gets freed yet remains terrified of being recaptured, or spends the rest of their life fighting slavery {which may be honourable and necessary on a personal or social/political level} is not yet truly or entirely free...

[Seth Ananda]

I might add I would much rather be filled with hate than with apathy...

Apathy is a disgusting state to be in!

[Stosh]

^{I noticed.}

[chegg]

"You can't experience real love down here" - (quote, source suppressed)

 

 

I didn't understand this quote until I woke up one night on the 'other-side' (almost super-conscious). I found friends which I felt love towards with my entire mind, body and soul. Yes, my whole body could feel love and every part of me was connected directly with them with an incredible attraction and I knew everything about them, everything ! I knew every past life, I knew everything they had ever done, I knew that I had always known that I knew them and I knew that they knew. I was almost in tears. I just wanted to hug them for ever and ever and ever.

 

When I came back to normal waking consciousness, the love had gone, the knowledge was lost, and everything was dull again. Bummer !

 

And that was nothing compared to my wife's encounter with the love of the Holy Spirit. It was so over-the-top, she kept refusing to come back. Extreme bummer !

 

 

My advice would be to 'chip away' slowly at not hating people and do not worry too much about 'love' & 'hate' & 'apathy' in the normal waking state.

Edited November 14, 2013 by chegg

[Aetherous]

Love and hate (which are opposites) are like having gas in your car...with the former you go somewhere nice, and with the latter somewhere unpleasant. Sometimes you need to get a GPS or map (a teacher), and they show you how to get somewhere nice.

Apathy is like having no gas, so even if you had the best teacher, you wouldn't put their guidance to use. If you wanted a teacher, you wouldn't have the gas to get to one...and you don't even have any gas to go fill up your tank.

That's the true nature of being careless. Being careless doesn't have the same effect as being care free. Care free implies that you took care of your cares, and then can finally rest. Careless means that your cares are stacking up as you rest.

Also, the effects of apathy are very widespread. It is the cause of all bad things happening around the world...for instance, starvation of people in other countries. Apathy is a lack of consideration and care for anyone or anything outside of oneself. Most people care mostly about themselves, then about their family, then about their friends and acquaintances...in a diminishing fashion. So if you think about it, their apathy is affecting everyone outside of their circle, which could be billions of people.

Our collective apathy is literally the cause of the starving kid across the globe.

Hate tends to be focus on a few or even one...and it tends to exist, because the hater considers and cares about something. They perceive that the hated person is living in the wrong way...so it shows that they value the right way of living. If only they would listen to the teachers that say, we must apply these measures equally to ourselves, and also look at the self-destructive nature of hatred. Hatred is also not living in the right way.

So overall...both apathy and hatred are not good. Hatred is the opposite of love, and apathy is the opposite of consideration and empathy...as Patanjali said, we should focus on the opposites of the negatives. We should love everyone, consider everyone, and empathize and try to help everyone.

Apathy is also a complete lack of energy...so people should know that it's not always considered good to live that way, at least in regard to the spiritual path. It might seem peaceful, but it's the kind of peace you get when procrastinating.

[3bob]

"to be or not to be" is only an apparent choice...

 

or even if you don't want to play the game you are still playing.

[Stosh]

In one direction or the other though

[roger]

off the main subject, but Osho doesn't (didn't) have a leg or a even a clean toenail to stand on when it comes to giving advice or making such comparisons!!! I suggest you do your research on him before quoting him.

 

It's in "The Book of Secrets." He refers to Christianity as a religion of hypocrites.

[chegg]

It's in "The Book of Secrets." He refers to Christianity as a religion of hypocrites.

 

[off topic]

I thought Osho had some pretty good teachings. I don't think he was purposefully sinister or malicious in any way although others have given him a pretty bad rap. Just like the in Christian religion, his own small following in the US wasn't exactly a paradise. But that is just from what I've read/heard on tv.

[/off topic]

Edited November 15, 2013 by chegg

[三江源]

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Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

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Edited June 22, 2014 by cat

[三江源]

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Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[chegg]

going supernova, a la chegg

 

 

 

Lol, thanks cat. Sorry, but I couldn't keep a straight face while watching that guy at the start. I think I've got the 4 am giggles.

Edited November 15, 2013 by chegg

[三江源]

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Edited July 25, 2014 by cat

[thelerner]

Yet doesn't Taoism point out the 'good' side of apathy. Seeing all things as straw dogs, being neither high nor low..etc., Same with some Buddhists points of view, seeing everything as impermanence and accepting change stoically.

 

hate to say it, but even Hate has a potentially good side. It's a hot powerful emotion and in bad times its kept people alive. Not always thinking clearly, but fire in your belly alive. Not recommending it though.

[三江源]

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Edited July 19, 2014 by cat

[Jeff]

I think apathy has at it's core something switched off, so I dont think it is what Taoism advocates. It might look like equanimity but I dont think it quite is.

 

I think it makes a big difference relative to the clarity of mind. Often apathy is a deep subconscious repression. A broader fear of something beyond conscious notice.

 

There is a big difference when one is engaged, but not attached to the outcome.