The teaching of Quanzhen

[Walker]

Friend: excellent. That he taught Wang Xiangzhai makes getting an answer especially easy. I'll get back to this question, hopefully within two weeks.

[Friend]

Friend: excellent. That he taught Wang Xiangzhai makes getting an answer especially easy. I'll get back to this question, hopefully within two weeks.

Thank you for your research.

It will provide some information which are rarely seen.

Either good or for bad.

[ChiDragon]

I think I might revert back to "Complete Reality," actually...since it probably referred to the "complete picture" attained from combining Taoism, Buddhism & Confucianism...

So essentially, Quanzhen = Confucian people skills (for lay practitioners) + Taoist Ming alchemy + Buddhist Xing realization

 

 

Okay, let's say Quan Zhen = Complete Reality.

If I follow Taomeow's advice and translate "Complete Reality" back to Chinese. Then I would ended with: 全部現實

[Taomeow]

Wang Liping is _a_ Longmen transmitter (albeit a controversial one), not _the_ transmitter. Because the Longmen school always boasted the greatest number of adherents today something like 70% of monks and nuns are members of this lineage. Many laypeople are, too. Nobody in China believes that Wang is the sole inheritor of the tradition.

 

 

I wouldn't doubt it if it could be verified. Theoretically there could be other transmitters, Friend offered a few names, but do you have any sources on hand to supply lineage information with names of their teachers, dates they studied with them, places where it took place, or any sources corroborating the claims? With at least some monks and nuns who are members of this lineage I know that they don't claim having learned from another transmitter. I met the (second) translator of the Dragon Gate/Wizard bio into Russian, and asked her how she herself found out about Wang Liping and what caused her to undertake the translation. She told me she was traveling in China as part of some cultural studies endeavor, stayed at a taoist monastery for a while, and witnessed some practices taoist monks were engaged in which fascinated her on some "qi level" or other. "What are you practicing?" she asked. They gave her that very book and said, "This."

Edited November 24, 2013 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

 

 

Okay, let's say Quan Zhen = Complete Reality.

If I follow Taomeow's advice and translate "Complete Reality" back to Chinese. Then I would ended with: 全部現實

Definitely not Taomeow's advice. Taomeow advocated translating Quan Zhen as Quanzhen and supplying extensive footnotes to explain what it is, and employing a Quanzhen member ONLY to accomplish the task.

[Friend]

Definitely not Taomeow's advice. Taomeow advocated translating Quan Zhen as Quanzhen and supplying extensive footnotes to explain what it is, and employing a Quanzhen member ONLY to accomplish the task.

Oh no, where is Deci Belle then?

[Taomeow]

[Antares]

Quanzhen was divided into northern and southern branches. All northern ones begin with loads of Xing methods and often require becoming a monk. Longmen is northern branch and it is questionable whether they (Wang Liping school) preserve Ming method. They can only say that they have it but... When I asked about Quanzhen methods here I had the query about Ming methods first of all. There are many Xing methods can be found. Or it might be heart (xin) methods only. Many monks in China can read Wang Liping novels but it does not mean anything to serious people. So I suppose only few southern branches preserved Ming method or teach it openly. Authentic Quanzhen' Ming method has been lost probably. And everything about immortallity could be the nice myth. Wang Chungyan died at "normal" age as many others. We can only believe that wonders exist.

Edited November 24, 2013 by Antares

[Antares]

And it seems to me original Quanzhen method had Xing cultivation as foundation. Ming method as foudation was set up by the founder all of Southern branch Chang Potuan. So I believe that only Southern branches are worth our concern as Xing methods are very difficult to cultivate proparly for the majority of western people imho. But some people may get more benefits other way around The question if northern schools are open for westerners and whether they preserved the method of ming

[baiqi]

Regarding poverty and Complete Reality Daoist teachings, while it is exceedingly wonderful that many Chinese people have been lifted from crushing poverty in recent decades, the fact is that Wang Chongyang's teachings lend no credence to the notion that one might rightly use Daoism as a vehicle with which to pursue wealth. Quite to the contrary, he enforced poverty (amongst other privations) upon his disciples, in order to break them of attachment to comfort as well as their identities in society. For example, Ma Danyang and Sun Bu'er, while they were married, were what we might call landed gentry... rich and famous in their area. Most of the other disciples, except for Qiu, were not poor when they came to Wang, though he quickly made them relinquish their wealth and.status. After he had given up the worldly life for a period of years, Wang made Ma Danyang return to his former village as a beggar, knowing that his disciple's ego would flare up being forced to grovel before those who once knew him as a wealthy man.

 

Qiu Chuji was similarly unfond of luxury, we are taught. There is a story, perhaps apocryphal but nevertheless indicative of how he is remembered, wherein an accomplished fortune teller eats in front of Qiu, who was begging bowl in-hand. The fortune teller says, "do not think I don't wish to share with you--I have given you no bread for your own good, as I can see you are a man who has, if he has eaten his fill at one meal, will then deprive himself and go hungry at several subsequent mealtimes in penance."

 

If one reads Complete Reality teachings that touch on the topic of how to live one's daily life, one finds that poverty and privation were valued and enforced. To varying extents, many sincere monks and nuns (eg, Jia Ye, recently mentioned elsewhere; Zhang Zhishun) embody and even actively promote such lifestyles. That Wang Liping does not is precisely one of the reasons he enjoys a very complicated reputation. Be sure that "the Dao is not to be bought and sold" is an ethos that is still alive and well in China, even amongst some practitioners who grew up dirt poor, still are dirt poor, and will likely depart of this world still dirt poor.

 

Those who wish to learn more about the lifestyles of the poor and righteous under Wang Chongyang may wish to consult the excellent "Teachings and Practices of the Early Quanzhen Masters," the contents of which may shock you. Wang was a fierce master at times.

I remember a Quanzhen wandering monk who was sleeping on the ground in Beijing, in the very middle of the city! He was quite old, and had absolutely nothing to sleep on, except the concrete...

 

Quanzhen is a monastic order, although there are lay practitioners. And just like in any monastic order, "poverty" is required (in theory).

 

And it had the reputation to be actually tougher than other western or eastern religious orders; they were ascetic people. Nowadays, this has changed, but there are some who still do it in the old way. Saw a report on an hermit who took a vow not to speak for five years.

Now, you have some monks who get paid to do some services (religious, fortune telling, medecine and so on), which would have been impossible 30 years ago. All was based on donation.

 

Actually, I don't get this "poverty" thing, when it is put to the extreme. Simplicity, yes. Misery, no thanks.

There is a balance between "doing big buisiness" (especially with the Dao, which in truth can't be sold) and be on the street in the winter.

 

You need some discipline, but I've always seen ascetism in opposition to following the Dao.

 

 

Okay, let's say Quan Zhen = Complete Reality.

If I follow Taomeow's advice and translate "Complete Reality" back to Chinese. Then I would ended with: 全部現實

Hehe do you know why? That's because you actually translate classical Chinese into modern Chinese...through English.

[ChiDragon]

Hehe do you know why? That's because you actually translate classical Chinese into modern Chinese...through English.

How would I know that the classical Chinese was hidden in the English?

Besides, no matter what, I still wouldn't have ended with 全真.

Edited November 27, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

1. Quanzhen is a monastic order, although there are lay practitioners. And just like in any monastic order, "poverty" is required (in theory).

 

2. And it had the reputation to be actually tougher than other western or eastern religious orders; they were ascetic people. Nowadays, this has changed, but there are some who still do it in the old way. Saw a report on an hermit who took a vow not to speak for five years.

 

1. Are you sure that you are talking about a Quanzhen Taoist. It sounds like a Buddhist monk.

 

2. There are two groups of Taoist practitioners. Only one group is ascetic which resides in the shrine. The other group is only part time which go to the shrine eight hours a day then return home in regular clothes.

Edited November 27, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ShifuC]

Yes, two books people can read are the Eskildsen "Teachings and Practices of Early Quanzhen Taoists" which is an eye opener for sure (if you're used to the Liu I Ming stuff); and the Opening the Dragon Gate.

As regards a middle path, I think nothing exceeds the perfect advice of the Hua Hu Ching. < personal opinion And the use of the Taoist I Ching from Quanzhen sect is absolutely vital IMO. I also see that the words of the Book of Balance and Harmony are actually balanced and harmonious, very fair and useful. I did not find the Xingming Guizhi to be as useful as that text or Understanding Reality. And of course the Secret of the Golden Flower. This is all in addition to the Chuang-lao-lieh school.

BUT no matter what, refer back to the Nei Yeh (buy the book "Original Tao") and Huang Di Nei Jing! Since most things came to us post copiers for 1,000 years, it is essential to get texts that are actually known to be more than 2,000 years old in extant form.

Hope this helps.
OH, there is a really short ancient neidan poem called the 12-sided Jade Knob, might be of use to people as well as a basic program of truly ancient people. It was literally etched into a jade knob from like 2000+ years ago. (and don't tell me neidan was invented after 200AD, that is nonsense of the literati. Neidan is of course as old as humankind sitting around eating like gorillas).

[Walker]

Wu Baolin speaks of his master's passing in an issue of Qi Magazine which can be downloaded for free. I believe he said the passing made the newspapers of the day. If anybody knows the master's name, we can easily learn more about this event, as this kind of recent history will not have faded into obscurity so quickly. If anybody here can supply the name, I will look into it.

 

I have received some private inquiries about this post, and have decided to share what I came up with publicly. I did not post initially because the results of my admittedly not exhaustive searching do not lend any credence to Wu's claims, and in fact may lead him to look like rightly or wrongly like a fraud. Well, if the stories are true, then perhaps this post will cause evidence to come to light, which I'm sure would make everybody happy--most of us would like to believe such miracles can happen in the middle of huge cities in the modern day.

 

Here's what I found:

 

 

1. A monk by the name attached to the master in Wu's stories was active in/around Beijing in the last century, but he was at the White Cloud Monastery only briefly, and was never abbot from what I can tell.

 

If you follow this link you can find a short biography of a Daoist monk in Beijing in the last century named Du Xinling (杜信灵) who was apparently a very skilled acupuncturist. I'm too busy to translate it all, but below I'm pasting Google's attempt, which more or less conveys the gist. The confusing part about the prison stint refers to an event in recent history when a White Cloud Monastery abbot and his assistant were bound and immolated on the monastery's grounds by other monks who were furious at their corruption and collusion with Japense occupying forces. These monks were imprisoned for their crime (which was actually permissible in accord with the monastery's official rules) but then released not long after because public opinion in favor of executing traitors who helped the Japenese was strong. Apparently this Du was a part of this uprising, which is explained in detail in the book The Taoists of Peking. Below, the Google translation:

 

West have a seat Yang Tao temple door, it is just an unknown Xuannan small temple. Small temple is a triple small courtyard, facing south, three nine next three dark hall, large-scale, dedicated to the shrine hall there. There are three wing-west; the east side of the two-story wooden structure of Chinese, upstairs, downstairs are three, intermediate storage by volume. There canopy front side of the hall there are three rooms facing the South, a smaller scale, for the priests used to live. Doors on both sides around the corridors, there is a small piece of open space in the hospital, flowers and vegetables for priests only. Quite a sense of quiet little courtyard. This small temple is actually a famous monastery Baiyun the lower house. People around called "Road View" (sound tube). This small temple since the early 1950s, due to road 士杜 letter and the spirit in the temple famed Beijing Shi clinic. Du Ling letter home to Shanxi, a monk since childhood, teens traveled mountains of the motherland, where the famous Taoist have left his footprints. Before the liberation, Du Ling came to the White Cloud Temple temporary letter, was when the fire occurred Baiyun Road in the famous case. Because when the White Cloud Temple presided An Shilin, a white full compliance does not keep track, misappropriation Temple Property, bullying bullying, sparking public anger priests, so the safe, white two burned alive. Du Ling letter although temporary, but is also involved in the meantime, all the priests to the police station after the incident, gave himself up and detained in prison. After the case is changed, all the priests have been released, Duling Xin Yang Road, then go to the temple to live.

 

Du Ling letter childhood ability to learn first-hand acupuncture, liberation, the people in the temple to acupuncture treatment cure, and not charge a penny, is completely free clinic. Because of his skill as a doctor, a doctor who every day crowds, eight town four townships, patients were to cast around Beijing and Tianjin medicine, some patients waiting day and night in front of a doctor. He thus treat countless patients. Then lift the "Road View" in Beijing, described women and children, the renowned Beijing.

 

Du Ling specializes letter thorn Jin Jinyu liquid bleeding method, the needle after cupping. His treatment of hemiplegia, gastroenterology unique. He also made two ugly red (ink ugly, ugly white) indigestion treatment is very effective. He was patient, rich or poor, are treated equally. In addition to acupuncture treatment does not belong to the scope of the disease, he never refused clinic. Treatment because he is good, less than a hundred people a day attending facilities.

 

Du Ling letter early 60s participated in extensive work in hospitals, but still "Road View" for the sub-clinic business more busy. West will be door "Road view", since the early 1980s, demolished, then built in the residential area of ​​East West wicket. Du Ling old letter by the "Cultural Revolution" in shock and devastated, suffering from cataracts and blindness, after died of illness.

 

The last sentence is exactly as the original Chinese states: this man died of illness, not of turning into a rainbow.

 

Conversely, I found no evidence of there having been a 20th century abbot of the White Cloud Monastery having this name. Two Daoists both having this name is not impossible. If they are both 25th generation Dragon Gate or Hua Shan sect initiates, they will both have the character 信-xin in their name, and 灵-ling is a popular enough character that two or more guys all having this same Daoist name is very probable. However, two guys whose last names are both 杜-du and both live in Beijing, one makes onto the internet for being an acupuncturist at a small temple after he leaves the White Cloud Monastery, while another, who serves as abbot and turns into pure light, fades into obscurity? Seems unlikely to me.

 

This brings me to the next points:

 

2. I persuaded a lay Daoist friend who has worked at the White Cloud Monastery clinic for years to ask around for me. Nobody she asked was familiar with the name Du Xinling. That seems highly remarkable, given that the man supposedly performed his miracle during 1980s. Daoists everywhere eat this stuff up--it wouldn't have been quickly forgotten!

 

3. There is a librarian/editor at the Beijing University of Chinese Medicine who studies Daoism and who is always interested in miraculous tales related to this tradition. He Had not heard of Wu's master, nor of any rainbow body attainment by a White Cloud Monastery Daoist master in the 1980s or any other time.

 

4. Finally, I asked an Yi Quan practitioner who was trained by Wang Xiangzhai's own daughter. I mention this martial art because supposedly Du Xinling taught Wang Xiangzhai, founder of Yi Quan. If that is really the case, my acquaintance not having heard of him is very unlikely. To make matters worse, the fellow is not just an Yi Quan player but a Daoist doctor who is affiliated with the Chinese Daoist Association, which is headquartered in the White Cloud Monastery. This man is extremely well-read and well-connected in Daoist circles, and he is a native Beijinger to boot. He had heard nothing about this miracle.

 

Having received so many nugatories, eventually I gave up asking. Knocking on every door in Beijing asking people if they know about the guy who turned into a rainbow is a good way to end up in a straight jacket! Since I highly doubt any newspaper archives from the 1980s have been digitized, there is no way I'm pouring over microfilm to try and substantiate Baolin Wu's claims, which I'm frankly prone to believe are probably fantasy.

Edited March 5, 2015 by Walker

[voidisyinyang]

http://books.google.com/books?id=5U_N0Esy6OsC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

 

So this fascinating, detailed account as a published qigong book of Master Du achieving rainbow body - is all fake?

 

Crazy.

[JinlianPai]

Golden Lotus immortals of buddhism did make its way into daoism.

 

[Daeluin]

2. I persuaded a lay Daoist friend who has worked at the White Cloud Monastery clinic for years to ask around for me. Nobody she asked was familiar with the name Du Xinling. That seems highly remarkable, given that the man supposedly performed his miracle during 1980s. Daoists everywhere eat this stuff up--it wouldn't have been quickly forgotten!

 

Just a passing musing.... my intuition suggests it possible for memories to fade from history, to be cancelled out as the practitioner reaches certain achievements. Perhaps certain traces remain, as fated, but others simply vanish.

 

Once I was searching for a youtube video of a taoist initiate. I had emailed this video to some people. However no traces could be found of the video or my sent emails. No doubt an error on my part, perhaps bad timing. Yet it raised this possibility to me, which I find difficult to dismiss.

[Songtsan]

I once saw some youtube videos of Daoists practicing martial arts in water, in fact there were a few of them. A month or two later I couldn't find any of them anywhere on youtube...those crazy dissapearring Daoists!

 

Have any of you translation peoples tried Trados' translation localization software? There is a free trial of their basic software, might be fun: http://www.translationzone.com/products/sdl-trados-studio/free-trial.html

[JinlianPai]

I was told by my former teacher to do meditations in the tub and to take herbal baths.

[opendao]

I have received some private inquiries about this post, and have decided to share what I came up with publicly. I did not post initially because the results of my admittedly not exhaustive searching do not lend any credence to Wu's claims, and in fact may lead him to look like rightly or wrongly like a fraud. Well, if the stories are true, then perhaps this post will cause evidence to come to light, which I'm sure would make everybody happy--most of us would like to believe such miracles can happen in the middle of huge cities in the modern day.

 

Thank you for such an impressive research, good example of how to work with information... I can only add that such miracles as body-of-light don't happen in big cities and crowded places. There are reasons for Neidan practitioners to go to mountains and special places.