The teaching of Quanzhen

[Antares]

Why to pay 3000$ for meds which are free in books?

[Taomeow]

But you paid 3500$ for seminar? It' your choice and I do not judge you. There are another options at my place. There are some taoist people near by who teach authentic stuff and ask money only for the rent and for class what one can pay. This is honest and not 3000 + $$$ for med.

 

Another issue - can you find Wang Lipings method in authentic text? Could you give me link to the text please?

 

Look, you supposedly asked for information on Quanzhen, I told you, briefly, what I knew. If I knew it was a bait-and-switch deal, I wouldn't have.

[Antares]

I am not familiar with this, but from its description "Nine Palaces Solar Qigong" seems to me as a system its author invented. "Nine Palaces" are not "openings in the body" (though there's correspondences in the body), "working with solar energy" is not a taoist practice at all (the taoist counterpart would be working with the energy of the sun, the moon and the stars)... both potentially very damaging to the real Longmen Pai, but I'm sure I don't know them all. About Baolin Wu I know too little to tell if there's any Longmen Pai there and if there is, how much of it.

 

That practice seems to work with sun and moon balancing yan and yin in the body. And this is not Longmen' practice and it comes from White Clouds monastery whithin Quanzhen school. We are talking about Quanzhen school

[Antares]

Tao, I asked people about Quanzhen methods. I know about Wang Liping and his school does not suit me. And I can not see connection of Wang Liping to the Quanzhen' school from my amateur perspective.

 

 

Dr. Baolin Wu is a Daoist (Taoist) Master, Physician and martial artist from the White Cloud Monastery in Beijing, which for almost a thousand years has been one of the most respected centers in China for the study and practice of Daoist philosophy and medicine. At age four he was brought to the monastery and cured of leukemia. He spent the next twenty years under the direct tutelage of the abbot of the monastery, learning techniques of which few people today are even aware.

Dr. Wu is nationally recognized as an authority in the practice of Traditional Chinese Medicine and also has a thorough understanding of Western Medicine, as evidenced by his training and experience. Dr. Wu received his medical degrees from the most esteemed schools in China. He graduated from the National College of Traditional Chinese Medicine in Beijing, holds a masters degree from the China Academy of Traditional Chinese Medicine and became an Attending Physician at Guang An Men Hospital

 

White Cloud Monastery is main monastery of Quanzhenjiao Pai. What is the connection of Wang Liping to Quanzhen?

Edited November 24, 2013 by Antares

[Taomeow]

White Cloud Monastery which was not functioning in maoist China and got restored when the political winds had changed is a communist enterprise with party functionaries given a crash course and appointed to serve as taoist monks.

 

Wang Liping's connection to Quanzhen is an unbroken documented lineage of direct transmission from Qiu Chang-chun, the founder of Longmen Pai.

 

You don't have to be impressed before you are informed, get informed first, decide if you are impressed later, no problem. You said you spent five minutes on a search. That's not enough. I recommended a book, not a five-minute search, and as for me personally, I invested ten years or so of taoist studies and practices before getting to a place from which Longmen pai looked good. And even then I didn't choose it, circumstances lined themselves up and I was able to do some work for the school first, get to study later. That's how it sometimes goes if it was meant to be. If it wasn't, do another five minute search and arrive at your destiny from there, you're the boss of you, no question.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Taomeow

[Antares]

I meant that even short time is enough somitimes to find some information regarding particular schools and teachers I did not say how I estimate schools. I said I had no funds and desire to pay big sum for seminar. You say you learned enough. Ok, I will listen to you as you more experienced it this study. What the main authentic text is basis of your school' method?

 

 

Wang Liping's connection to Quanzhen is an unbroken documented lineage of direct transmission from Qiu Chang-chun, the founder of Longmen Pai.

Any evidence of this? Please do not say that you must not bring any of them. Just one documented is enough

Edited November 24, 2013 by Antares

[Antares]

White Cloud Monastery which was not functioning in maoist China and got restored when the political winds had changed is a communist enterprise with party functionaries given a crash course and appointed to serve as taoist monks.

 

You have to read that book with history of the Monastery. They have two monasteries (south and north )and method was not lost.

[Friend]

Exuse me, after university I was to work for government organisation for 2 years with wages 105$ per MONTH. 50$ I paid for bills and 50 $ for food. 5$ I had for music etc. Now it is 300-400$ per month at my place and bills almost half. When I contacted WL's school they asked me to pay 3500$ for 5 days seminar. May be you should not judge people your way? I must work all year with no food and live with parents in order to pay this gentlman for his meditation technique which I can get in a book. If he teaches me how no to eat... then may be... But thanks for your honest opinion about me. I need to get another job but there are other options. If I get job for 1000 $ then I will have to work 12-15 hours. When to practice sitting then?

Ah then it is understandable.

Mostly those who are willing to pay and go are those from

US State, Germany and the United Kingdom.

 

That practice seems to work with sun and moon balancing yan and yin in the body. And this is not Longmen' practice and it comes from White Clouds monastery whithin Quanzhen school. We are talking about Quanzhen school

Longmen Pai is Quanzhen. Mention of Longmen, Yuxian, Nanwu,

Suishan, Yushan, Huashan and Qingqing are all legal as they together form

the Quanzhen.

 

Longmenpai is the biggest and most popular sect and has also many

lineageholder.

Known are

:Wang Liping and his teachers,

:Yuanming Zhang

:Bao Lin Wu

:Zhongxian Wu

 

each of them comes with very different technique set.

Beside a Steven Liu also wrote a book which add to the confusion.

 

Bao Lin Wu wrote that the nine solar palace was lost to Qiu Chuji

as he wasnt good at it and get serious problems but was

very good in the full lotus exercise so it get not mentioned

until retrieved from the emissary of the Purple Cloud Monastry who

is the teacher from Bao Lin Wu who claim to witness the Rainbowbody

his teacher attain.

 

Talking about Quanzhen is difficult as already 18 Generation are passed

for the Longmen Pai and so many changes are add and things get

refined as well of reformation like Wu Liu Pai.

Who is right can only be withness when one go personally to it.

 

I for my part can only say that Wang Liping holds power.

If it leads to immortality I dont know, but some feats are sure

he is able to do.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Maybe you know then why he teaches Zhaobao taijiquan instead of Zhang Sanfeng's version?

 

The Zhaobao lineage traces up from Jiang Fa, who was a student of Wang Zongyue, who seems to be about the earliest known Tai Chi practitioner after Zhang Sanfeng. Wang Zhongyue is reputed to have written the Taiji Classics.

[Brian]

But you paid 3500$ for seminar? It' your choice and I do not judge you. There are another options at my place. There are some taoist people near by who teach authentic stuff and ask money only for the rent and for class what one can pay. This is honest and not 3000 + $$$ for med.

 

Another issue - can you find Wang Lipings method in authentic text? Could you give me link to the text please?

 

I am not a student of Wang Liping so I am not talking about those seminars, and my teacher's workshops are not nearly so pricy. I have attended a number of workshops, however, and intend to attend more. Figure in travel and hotels and meals, etc., and it adds up. Our last workshop was on the beach in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina (on the East Coast of the US) and it included attendees from across the country as well as the nations of UK, Brazil and Columbia. Travel expenses were higher for them...

 

It's not that money is/was no object but that money wasn't my first concern. I researched many schools, systems and teachers (including some in my own backyard). When I stumbled upon the right teacher, though, it just "clicked" and the logic of my search became irrelevant.

[Friend]

I am not a student of Wang Liping so I am not talking about those seminars, and my teacher's workshops are not nearly so pricy. I have attended a number of workshops, however, and intend to attend more. Figure in travel and hotels and meals, etc., and it adds up. Our last workshop was on the beach in Hilton Head Island, South Carolina (on the East Coast of the US) and it included attendees from across the country as well as the nations of UK, Brazil and Columbia. Travel expenses were higher for them... It's not that money is/was no object but that money wasn't my first concern. I researched many schools, systems and teachers (including some in my own backyard). When I stumbled upon the right teacher, though, it just "clicked" and the logic of my search became irrelevant.

To stay on topic it is to mention that the teacher

also has Longmenpai in Form of Energetics passed down.

Talking about Quanzhen and Longmenpai doesnt help

to explain this part as one get .... the lineage passed down -

energetic information based.

 

This is passed down for Wu Wei practise

and not for You Wei which require much theory and techniques

as they are linear.

[Antares]

Wang Liping teaches seated method in the beginning what is wrong accroding to the core taoist scripture. This method is listed there as one of false methods. Taking into account that factor that nowadays many people just earn money on spirituality I treat them very carefully. There are options and I choose what the right to my feelings but not to smb's else. I never pay such ammount of money for seated meds. And I do not care who is he. That' all.

[Antares]

Longmen Pai is Quanzhen. Mention of Longmen, Yuxian, Nanwu...

 

That' it. All of them are authentic but methods are absolutely different. And all of them belong to Quanzhenjiao. All methods are right. I think it's better to choose master but not school. I have idea what to practice. There is always something what we can do. Even method from a book can be right in particular moment. Transmission helps but is not must. If somebody asks huge money for transmission that would not be authentic but commercial. We have to be honest and do not lie each other

[Friend]

Wang Liping teaches seated method in the beginning what is wrong accroding to the core taoist scripture. This method is listed there as one of false methods. Taking into account that factor that nowadays many people just earn money on spirituality I treat them very carefully. There are options and I choose what the right to my feelings but not to smb's else. I never pay such ammount of money for seated meds. And I do not care who is he. That' all.

Wang Liping has this sitting method to regain a balance boys have with 16

and girls with 14.

It includes as well the Ping Heng Gong, exericises with tree

and these are don standing in front of tree and as well.

Xing Gong/ Walking Exercises.

 

One of my teachers hold much about exercise with trees.

(It is to exercise 2 hours in this school, but no more word here about this school)

He told me that if the body is repaired the tree Qi will add to the lifeforce.

 

Since one work with Qi which correspondent with the five Zhang Fu,

the later use of the Wu Xing Gong, Five Changing Phase Exercise will

circulate and gather into the Dan and as well balance out the Zhang Fu.

 

From my own opinion I think sitting and standing has to be balanced

and movements should also be included.

But well who wants to pay someone 30 month for the practise alone

and another 10 Month of if one talk about income alone,

one has to think that most of income is for taxes and other life sustained activities.

To think one has to put 20 Years of work to go to one seminar is awful thought,

so considering is much appreciate. Else some people can buy with that amount

one pair of shoes...... the world is odd.....

[Friend]

Bao Lin Wu witnessed his teacher attain the Rainbow Body?

He claim it. Even perfect without any fingernails, bones or anything left.

[opendao]

The Zhaobao lineage traces up from Jiang Fa, who was a student of Wang Zongyue, who seems to be about the earliest known Tai Chi practitioner after Zhang Sanfeng. Wang Zhongyue is reputed to have written the Taiji Classics.

 

that's all is clear. But for me the difference between Zhaobao and some details I know about Zhang Sanfeng's taijiquan is very obvious. Zhaobao, Chen, Wu, Wu-Hao obviously have same root, but I haven't heard before that anybody from Zhaobao village claimed they have any practices from Hidden Immortals Lineage... Speaking about this lineage, it's very hard to practice it in usual life. So it looks as just connecting Zhang Sanfeng's lineage to Zhaobao through very doubtful Jiang Fa (he is a hero also in Chen, but doesn't look as a teacher on the known painting).

[ChiDragon]

opendao.....
What have you accomplished in your school in the past? I mean the result of any significant physical change in your body from your practice? And what were/are you practicing.

This is only to satisfy my curiosity rather than a challenge. It would be my pleasure to hear your empirical experiences. Thanks.

Edited November 24, 2013 by ChiDragon

[opendao]

Wang Liping has this sitting method to regain a balance boys have with 16

and girls with 14.

 

Just curious, why Wang Liping doesn't demonstrate such a balance? There are a lot of pictures in the Internet, he doesn't look like a boy. Moreover, he looks now not so young as before... Sad.

 

I for my part can only say that Wang Liping holds power.

If it leads to immortality I dont know, but some feats are sure

he is able to do.

 

There are a lot of discussions in Chinese internet why Wang Liping has no relation to Longmenpai. I think everybody can make his/her own research and then it really depends on the fate.

[opendao]

opendao.....

What have you accomplished in your school in the past? I mean the result of any significant physical change in your body from your practice? And what were/are you practicing.

 

This is only to satisfy my curiosity rather than a challenge. It would be my pleasure to hear your empirical experiences. Thanks.

 

it's prohibited to share any details about personal practice. I understand your curiosity, but cannot help. I can just say that yes, it's possible to receive physical proves quite fast (1-3 years). Later, you will receive proves from other people who will start to say something about your appearance etc. If there are no results, then something is wrong, then there is no transformation, then there is no Neidan. Believe me, I was (and am) very sceptical :-)

[opendao]

Talking about Quanzhen is difficult as already 18 Generation are passed

for the Longmen Pai and so many changes are add and things get

refined as well of reformation like Wu Liu Pai.

 

What do you mean by "reformation"?

[Friend]

What do you mean by "reformation"?

Get rid of the sitting in this case.

 

 

Just curious, why Wang Liping doesn't demonstrate such a balance? There are a lot of pictures in the Internet, he doesn't look like a boy. Moreover, he looks now not so young as before... Sad.

Indeed,

His teachers seem also not show the maintainance of staying young looking.

I forgot what it was - the balance was about the cycle

where males have 8 years up to 64 and the female up to 49.

But well who can say that from the other teachers of other lineages

even the over hundred also not look so fit.

 

Who can say for sure?

 

I also asked a 40 years old one who was very fit,strong looking.

"Why your hairs are already gray by doing so much cultivation"

- he said nothing.

[gendao]

How would you going about translating Quan Zen(全真) ....???

I think I might revert back to "Complete Reality," actually...since it probably referred to the "complete picture" attained from combining Taoism, Buddhism & Confucianism...

Complete Reality Taoism was the first Taoist Sect to establish a system that successfully blended and harmonized the "Three Teachings" (Taoism, Buddhism and Confucianism).

 

Quanzhen Taoism is mainly based on Lv Dongbin's Alchemical Taoism, with Buddhism and Confucianism, integrated into it.

Taoist adept now known as Wang Chung-yang, he founded the Complete Reality lineage. In this form of practice, Taoist techniques for cultivating health, longevity and inner quietude were integrated with the ethics of Confucianism, and a Chan Buddhist understanding of original mind and emptiness (the Heart Sutra was incorporated into the lineage’s scriptural canon). This fusion, according to Wang Chung-yang, laid a foundation for a complete understanding of reality – hence the name Quanzhen: “Complete Reality” or “Complete Perfection.”

So essentially, Quanzhen = Confucian people skills (for lay practitioners) + Taoist Ming alchemy + Buddhist Xing realization

[Walker]

Wang Liping is _a_ Longmen transmitter (albeit a controversial one), not _the_ transmitter. Because the Longmen school always boasted the greatest number of adherents today something like 70% of monks and nuns are members of this lineage. Many laypeople are, too. Nobody in China believes that Wang is the sole inheritor of the tradition.

 

The White Cloud Monastery is indeed home to party functionaries and hangers on various, but be sure there are a small number of monks there reputed to be of great cultivation, up to this very day (nevertheless, getting to meet, recognize, and study with these fellows is not easy).

 

Wu Baolin speaks of his master's passing in an issue of Qi Magazine which can be downloaded for free. I believe he said the passing made the newspapers of the day. If anybody knows the master's name, we can easily learn more about this event, as this kind of recent history will not have faded into obscurity so quickly. If anybody here can supply the name, I will look into it.

[Friend]

Wang Liping is _a_ Longmen transmitter (albeit a controversial one), not _the_ transmitter. Because the Longmen school always boasted the greatest number of adherents today something like 70% of monks and nuns are members of this lineage. Many laypeople are, too. Nobody in China believes that Wang is the sole inheritor of the tradition.

 

The White Cloud Monastery is indeed home to party functionaries and hangers on various, but be sure there are a small number of monks there reputed to be of great cultivation, up to this very day (nevertheless, getting to meet, recognize, and study with these fellows is not easy).

 

Wu Baolin speaks of his master's passing in an issue of Qi Magazine which can be downloaded for free. I believe he said the passing made the newspapers of the day. If anybody knows the master's name, we can easily learn more about this event, as this kind of recent history will not have faded into obscurity so quickly. If anybody here can supply the name, I will look into it.

I have post some post before names of

4 still living lineageholder,

there seem to be many and not a single overboss.

 

The name of the teacher from Bao Lin Wu is Du Xinlin.

He was also teacher of Wang Xiangzhai.

[Walker]

Regarding poverty and Complete Reality Daoist teachings, while it is exceedingly wonderful that many Chinese people have been lifted from crushing poverty in recent decades, the fact is that Wang Chongyang's teachings lend no credence to the notion that one might rightly use Daoism as a vehicle with which to pursue wealth. Quite to the contrary, he enforced poverty (amongst other privations) upon his disciples, in order to break them of attachment to comfort as well as their identities in society. For example, Ma Danyang and Sun Bu'er, while they were married, were what we might call landed gentry... rich and famous in their area. Most of the other disciples, except for Qiu, were not poor when they came to Wang, though he quickly made them relinquish their wealth and.status. After he had given up the worldly life for a period of years, Wang made Ma Danyang return to his former village as a beggar, knowing that his disciple's ego would flare up being forced to grovel before those who once knew him as a wealthy man.

 

Qiu Chuji was similarly unfond of luxury, we are taught. There is a story, perhaps apocryphal but nevertheless indicative of how he is remembered, wherein an accomplished fortune teller eats in front of Qiu, who was begging bowl in-hand. The fortune teller says, "do not think I don't wish to share with you--I have given you no bread for your own good, as I can see you are a man who has, if he has eaten his fill at one meal, will then deprive himself and go hungry at several subsequent mealtimes in penance."

 

If one reads Complete Reality teachings that touch on the topic of how to live one's daily life, one finds that poverty and privation were valued and enforced. To varying extents, many sincere monks and nuns (eg, Jia Ye, recently mentioned elsewhere; Zhang Zhishun) embody and even actively promote such lifestyles. That Wang Liping does not is precisely one of the reasons he enjoys a very complicated reputation. Be sure that "the Dao is not to be bought and sold" is an ethos that is still alive and well in China, even amongst some practitioners who grew up dirt poor, still are dirt poor, and will likely depart of this world still dirt poor.

 

Those who wish to learn more about the lifestyles of the poor and righteous under Wang Chongyang may wish to consult the excellent "Teachings and Practices of the Early Quanzhen Masters," the contents of which may shock you. Wang was a fierce master at times.