Opinion on "Mind-Altering Substances"?

[Marblehead]

There is a reason why it is sometimes called Locoweed.

[silent thunder]

I've never found psychedelics to be habit forming.

Brief, intense flashes of unshakable insight is what I discovered.

Realized certain patterns about my habitual self that were damaging and released them.

 

In the end, everything is a drug, every emotion, conversation, food item, thought form.

Be honest with yourself and be free.

Fuck the conditioned reaction chain.

[Taomeow]

I've never found psychedelics to be habit forming.

Brief, intense flashes of unshakable insight is what I discovered.

Realized certain patterns about my habitual self that were damaging and released them.

 

In the end, everything is a drug, every emotion, conversation, food item, thought form.

Be honest with yourself and be free.

Fuck the conditioned reaction chain.

 

Native Americans call everything that has Power of the Great Spirit "medicine." If a "drug" has it, it's a medicine, but most drugs are actually materialized (via external alchemy) entities of the netherworld (the dead dug up from the depth of the earth -- many are actually petrochemicals based and most contain at least some petrochemicals), designed to take power away from you and give it to those who send them into the world for this specific task. These are, technically, not "medicines" in the shamanic sense but a separate category -- "poisons." Poisons work by taking your Power away, medicines work by giving it to you. This is a very useful distinction IMO.

 

And, yes, it's not just substances, anything can be a medicine or a poison. "Drugs" are mostly poisons, while sacred plants are mostly medicines.

Edited November 19, 2013 by Taomeow

[chegg]

****WARNING...DANGER....WARNING...DANGER****

 

The Number One really serious downside to taking drugs, that a lot of people tend to overlook, is that there is a very high chance of inadvertently attracting entities that will feed off the drug experience. An example would be that if you smoke marijuana, this will attract spirits on the other side with a predisposition to the effects of marijuana and will feed off your experience.

 

You must protect yourself ! Once you open those subconscious gates without protection, elementals will just go straight in at the speed of light and attach to you.

 

I'll say it again, elementals will go straight in and attach to you !!! whether they are drugy types or other negative types. The Law of attraction works a lot faster in the spirit world !!!

 

Safety should be everyone's number one priority...with or without drugs.

 

Protect yourself. Protect yourself. Protect yourself.

 

I've heard too many people say something similar to...."Hey dude, I'm going to meditate and get enlightened" like its some sort of new in-fashion trendy thing to do. A few months down the track its "Dude, something went wrong, help me, I think I f*#ked up really bad". Personally, I wouldn't even recommend anyone meditate let alone take drugs.

 

 

"Meditation alone is like spiritual wanking, its the work you do out in the real world that matters, the service you give to your fellow human beings. This is the most important"

 

 

Sorry if I sound alarmist.

 

Blessings of protection to all.

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited November 19, 2013 by chegg

[Marblehead]

"Meditation alone is like spiritual wanking, its the work you do out in the real world that matters, the service you give to your fellow human beings. This is the most important"

And yes, I consider your warnings to be realistic.

[Gigi]

I have just seen this one on http://www.easterninternalarts.org/ (Q&A with Jenny Lamb) :

 

 

Dear Sifu Jenny,

Can you please share your insight about spiritual growth and the use of drugs?

What are the energetic implications, effect on Qi, Mind and how is this related to entities issues? When you treat a patient who is addicted to drugs, are there certain energetic symptoms you find only in drug users that are not found in non users?

How about people who are not smoking but affected by people smoking around them, is there any energetic effect too?

I see these days that it is becoming very popular and many who are interested in spiritual growth tell me it is great for development, but personally I have become convinced for both short term and long term it is not. Although I am not using any drugs I wish to have better understanding on its implications and mainly the energetic effects as there seems to be a lot of confusion around it these days as this is becoming more and more popular.

Another view that I hear is that many of the ancient masters in the past used these psychedelic plants to evolve spiritually. Is there any view of ancient masters in daoism and buddhism who used it and considered it beneficial?

I hope this may help bring a better clarity on the subject and help others who ask these same questions, perhaps asking themselves if they should stop smoking or not.

Thank you very much for your time to answer.

With Gratitude and Blessings,

 

Thank you for asking such important questions and thank you, Tom, for sharing your direct self-experience and knowledge (Tom's comments are on my Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/EasternInternalArts/). Your answers are thorough and insightful. I don't think I have anything to add from the user's perspective. Spirituality and drugs are a critical and sensitive topic for me to talk about in the West, because they are so popular with many followers. Yet, it is vital to have a proper understanding, especially for spiritual seekers. Therefore, I am going to stress this topic, from the perspective of spirituality (the view of Buddhism and Taoism) and as a healer, my observation of entity hosts related to using drugs.

Spirituality:

Buddhism teaches three things: discipline, concentration and wisdom. Discipline brings mindfulness to our actions and wards off unwholesome actions of body, speech and mind. It is to prevent transgressions. Sufficient discipline leads to good concentration and good concentration leads to wisdom. Wisdom gets rid of delusion, leads to liberation and the truth. Prajñāpāramitā (the Perfection of Wisdom) sutra, the heart sutra: "The Avalokiteśvara (Guanyin) Bodhisattva of compassion, while in profound contemplation of Prajna Paramita, beheld five skandhas (aggregates) as empty in their being and thus transcended all suffering." Profound and transcendent wisdom takes one to the other shore, the shore free from all suffering, which can only be attained through cultivation and practicing of meditation and contemplation. Liberation through wisdom is declared in all Buddhist sutras. There is no mention that drugs can help spiritual growth. In fact, they are refrained from, because they would prevent mindfulness, cause neglectfulness and interrupt the development of an enlightened mind. When inertness, neglectfulness and illusion arise the mode of ignorance predominates.

Taoism includes philosophical and religious traditions, both highlighting living in harmony with the Tao (way). Philosophical Taoism was presented by Laozi. It promotes the formless, mystical, and origin of all things. It is ultimately ineffable, therefore, "the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao". Philosophical Taoism emphasizes Wu Wei, (the effortless action, or action without intent), or Wei Wu Wei, (action without action). It asserts that one must follow the will of the natural universe in order to achieve harmony with the great Tao. Religious Taoism, on the other hand, sees divine manifestation in all things, sun, moon, stars, mountains, oceans and so forth, and features reverence for Laozi, immortals and ancestors. Their study is involved in almost every field: cosmology, astrology, divination, exorcism rituals, alchemy, Traditional Chinese medicine, feng shui, Qigong etc. and most of all is a quest for longevity or immortality. A Taoist sutra states that those whose body and mind follow the laws of nature, practice only the Tao (way), and serve the Tao (way) as a profession are called Taoist (身心顺理，唯道是从，从道为事，故称道士). This is referring to professionals, for those who follow the Taoist doctrine and practice its approaches are Taoist practitioners. Thus, practicing the way and promoting nature is the core of Taoism.

Alchemy is considered to be a main practice of religious Taoism. It includes Neidan and Waidan, or internal alchemy and external alchemy. Generally speaking, practicing alchemy refers to internal alchemy, focusing on cultivating substances of body known as the three treasures, e.g. Jing (life essence), Qi (vital energy) and Shen (spiritual energy). The four stages of Neidan (internal alchemy) practice are Zhu ji (or establish foundation), convert the Jing to Qi, convert the Qi to Shen, and return the Shen to its origin (or unify the Shen to the great void). It is energetic meditative practice. Waidan (external alchemy) refers to anything produced from outside of the body, such as elixirs which are produced from alchemical operations with external substances (cinnabar, realgar, mercury, sulfur, lead, etc). Many of these substances are actively toxic and far from contributing to longevity. It caused the death of the Jiajing Emperor in the Chinese Ming Dynasty. The Elixir of Life (pill of immortality) becomes the extinction of life (pill of life shortening). The true expression of external alchemy is referring to moving energy that exists outside of body. The Alchemy classics say that to obtain internal alchemy is primary and seeking the external is secondary. Only when internal alchemy is established, then you can absorb and fuse external alchemy (moving energy). Therefore, a true spiritual growth is always from within. Taking drugs for a short cut or easy way out is no more than obtaining an experience of curiosity. It could only satisfy your fantasy or be a temporary escape from this reality, but you are led astray without knowing. Getting deeper into this mind state is called Zou Huo Ru Mo 走火入魔（deviation）in Taoism.

The following illustrations that I encountered related with using drugs can be a good example to respond to your question:

Example 1: A person had an issue with no sensations from his neck down. He claimed he was a practitioner with great realizations and used to travel to different dimensions. He used to do meditation with hallucinatory plants and had used them more than a hundred times and now he could not feel anything except his head. He sought help everywhere, especially from different traditions, but nothing helped.

Example 2: One who thinks that he possibly has an entity in him, because, for over a decade, he has had a lot of the same symptoms that I point out in my article "Entity Issues". He has not been getting any answers from either Western or Eastern medical professionals. He also sought out help from bioenergetics healing. He said nothing really worked until he took Ayahuasca. He believed that Ayahuasca helped his physical issues. But a week later he was committed to a mental institution. Now he sees some physical problems restarting again and mental worries in many aspects and degrees. I don't want to go into all the details. In fact, Ayahuasca created a psychiatric break for him. Yet, he still believes that he had a lot of deep realizations from it. Illusion was dominating his mind.

Example 3: Someone coming to me for entity removal said he was in perfect health until he took Ayahausca. He claimed the journey was guided by a troubled shaman and left him in between worlds. Since then, he has trouble sleeping and wakes with nightmares. There is a lot of blame for others that he believes caused his entity issues. In fact, the entity has been around him for a while but could not enter his body because of his strong personality. When he took the trip for an Ayahausca journey, he was influenced by his entity. As soon as his mind was taken over by Ayahausca, the entity entered his body instantly.

Example 4: A young man went to a well know shaman for entity removal. Healing was applied with some of these hallucinatory plants. Plants did not remove his entity and instead brought him some other physical issues.

All that exists has its purpose in the world. Their structure, function and regulations are different. Some may coexist in the same space without conflict due to each following its own pathway to abide by. To be born as a human being, it may be wise to maximum your human potentiality first, instead of longing for something that you are not and having no idea what you are getting yourself into. Being human is valuable because of the uniqueness of our consciousness. We can make a choice. If we lose our consciousness, we lose the value of ourselves. Spiritual growth is referring to enhancing and enriching our ability toward awakening or moving up to a higher realm. If such plants or drugs or entities create confusion and destroy mindfulness, I do not see any benefit from a spiritual perspective. When your mind is distorted, you lose proper perceptions as a human being. You see sky is not sky, see earth is not earth, see water is not water. You become different beings, a ghost who does not see water as water, but as fire. When your mind cannot function and discern your situation correctly, your sensors perform erroneously.

While helping people with their entity related issues, when I see people's condition getting worse but hear them say that "I feel better" after entity removal is attempted unsuccessfully, I often ask, if you are getting better, why do you come to me for help? Actually, their mind is confused and sensors are disordered and cannot know the difference. Typically, after each failure of entity removal, the body gets tighter, heavier, and harder to breathe. There's a lack of oxygen going to the brain due to the entity cutting the source of their blood supply out of fear of what they did to get rid of them. The body becomes weaker and mind becomes more absent. How can there be any improvement as the result of a failed attempt?

"How about people who are not smoking but affected by people smoking around them, is there any energetic effect too?" Yes, it will have an energetic effect, depending on the level of smoke and the tolerance of the person. I know a friend who got a new job in an environment associated with marijuana in Colorado. Her mind suddenly shutdown and she was unable to function and felt very miserable. Quitting her job became her only solution and that is what she did.

"When you treat a patient who is addicted to drugs, are there certain energetic symptoms you find only in drug users that are not found in non users?" Those addicted to stimulants often show extreme emotionality and energy swings. Fighting their addiction will take more willpower, extra effort and support for them. I've found that those who used hallucinatory plants are more agitated and defensive if you say that what they perceived is illusion. They are convinced that the drugs gave them deep realizations and that they had a journey to a higher realm or a different dimension. Even if the vision horrified them, they deny that it was an illusion. They do not see that their experience was a hallucination and the result of the drug's influence. Moreover, they begin to suffer from health issues as a side effect of the drugs. Their system begins to shut down. In this case, if one does not admit to a false view and wrong doing, it cannot be helped. Blindly believing is unwholesome action. A reality check can be very helpful. To identify whether your connection is with a higher realm or lower realm can be seen from the following:

If your connection is with a higher realm (you do not need drugs for that), your body should feel lighter and brighter. You are full of Yang Qi. Your life is brightened. People around you feel comfortable and healing. You feel energetic, look younger, healthier and have more wisdom. You have a tendency to want to share your wisdom with others. The gift from higher beings is mainly two things: energy and wisdom. They commonly come with a group. Generosity is their nature. You feel safe. That given by them will never be involved with an exchange. As a matter of fact, there is nothing you can offer that will be of interest to them. But your virtue is a precondition for them to care to help you. If you are chosen for a higher purpose, they will protect you. Your life span could only increase not decrease. Your connection with them will not be broken (their support for you will be for your lifetime, which is merely a couple of days of their time), unless you become virtueless and lose your way.

If your connection is from a lower realm, everything is the opposite. Without drugs your journey ends (usually, drugs influence can last a few hours to a few days after each use). Connected with lower beings (entities), your health will gradually decline. Your body feels heavier and Yin Qi dominates. Your mind does not function properly and you have a hard time concentrating. Often, you have negative thoughts and prefer being alone and have social anxiety. You look unhealthy, older than your age, surrounded with dark force. People feel uncomfortable around you. You have a lack of wisdom, are always suspicious of others, feel very insecure and have a tendency to attack others. You will gradually develop depression, unbalanced emotions, and fear for no reason. Between you and your entity, exchange is an absolute request, your energy for their help. Your life span will decrease.

For the above reasons, whether for a short-term or long-term, I do not find psychedelic plants or drugs help spiritual growth, nor heal those patients that I encountered. On the contrary, I found that the hallucinatory drugs distort people's mind and damage their nervous system. For long term use, it is more harmful than what one wishes for. For short term use, it may produce a unique experience to satisfy one's curiosity (still, it depends on individuals, some experiencing more suffering than joy) but it does not produce an awakened mind. Some even pollute one's Qi and blood. I am not saying these plants are not good for anything or anything is wrong with them. It is the users who made a wrong choice for their purpose. You must know what you are doing and what you getting yourself involved in. There are many better options and less harmful than using drugs. We live on our choices and are responsible for our choices.

Proper understanding is crucial for spiritual development. Longing for what and how to get it leads to different paths. If you are longing for something external, the true external energy (outside of self) that can profit you only comes from a higher source or higher realm. According to Buddhism, the higher realm above human is the God realm or beings that are beyond our cyclic realms such as Bodhisattvas or Buddhas. In Taoism, the higher realm is Xianjie仙界or the immortal realm. Taking (internal use) hallucinatory plants for magic will not lead you to a higher realm.

In ancient times, to contact higher realms, some masters used (external use) many fragrant plants or materials to make incense, along with the highest valued elements from this world to conduct offering ceremonies. It is for establishing connections with higher beings for their guidance (wisdom) or help (to defuse worldly disasters), normally led by the Emperor or an accomplished master of religion. For individuals, this is practiced on a small scale for a personal request. The offering is for the purpose of creating a pathway to send a message. Your offering is a presentation of your heart with highest value to you. Hopefully it will be received by some higher individuals and get their response. Be aware, they don't pity you because you are less fortunate. Causality regulates the universe. Your pure heart and virtue are the condition to motivate them to pay attention to you, or if you are an individual who is willing to make an extraordinary effort to change your life for the better, you may have a chance to succeed. They help you if you deserve their help, not to become greedier and more self-centered. When your connection is established, the generosity from above is truly given.

The true spiritual development is the transformation of consciousness into wisdom. Buddhists practice faith, effort, mindfulness, concentration, and discernment (wisdom), known as the five strengths in order to control the five sensory faculties (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and body) and put a spotlight on the Enlightenment path.

Learning from others' experiences and taking others' failures as a mirror of our future could prevent many unnecessary mistakes in our life. I hope that Tom's and my little sharing can be of benefit to some who are walking on the right spiritual path.

Be happy, be healthy and be wise!

 

 

Bye

[Taomeow]

I don't know if you realize that teachers who offer their teachings as paid services must comply with the laws of the country where the services are rendered. Any one of them who is in the public eye will say the same thing about an issue that could get them in legal trouble unless they say what is implicitly demanded of them by law.

 

As a result, any and all speeches they make on a legally sensitive subject boil down to "I'm not a threat, I conform and obey, please don't hurt me, Big Brother."

[Harmonious Emptiness]

The discussion brings an interesting reflection on depression and yin-yang energies -- light, airy, yang -- wet, heavy, yin -. Need some more light airiness to life, than to need wet yin-ness -- perhaps the root to addiction. MJ is known to dry the body which reduces emotional "stickiness" - but there certainly is something to be said about the resulting "muddiness."

 

[chegg]

Lovely posts from everyone (especially Gigi's).

 

 

I just remembered an example on protecting oneself: (not sure if its a good one though)

 

 

Lets say you are an average, heterosexual man in normal waking life and you decide to go for a walk. You approach a crowd of people. You see a hot babe with nice cleavage. A sensual thought comes to your mind. Bang ! Your hooked ! Luckily, your physical body anchors you to your location on the sidewalk and prevents you from reaching across and grabbing those female mammary glands :-)

 

Now, you go into the astral, same deal. Because you have some training, you avoid desire driven activities and refrain from lusty thoughts and don't focus on the 'females'. So you go ahead and walk into a crowd of entities. Bang ! Now you've got 50 'females' instantly attacking your manhood and wanting to suck you energetically dry. Yikes !

 

So what would be a good form of protection ? I would guess a good one is old age. But this isn't enough. People/entities still like taking advantage of the elderly. You will still get attacked. What would be a good symbol ? Have a cross hanging around your neck and dress like a priest or a nun? This is a better one as entities will be less likely to attack that symbol.

 

There are all sorts of symbols you can use. The easiest ones are the ones you can just hang around your neck/body in waking life. The best ones are the ones you can create in the spirit world such as the six pointed Star of David. But this takes an enormous amount of concentration. Witchcraft uses the pentagram drawn on the floor together with a strong intent. Some Christians cover themselves in the blood of Jesus Christ (I find this to be the most powerful).

 

I'm guessing that using drugs makes it even harder and almost impossible to protect yourself. One must maintain absolute perfect control of thier desires and thoughts. Imagine walking into a bar full of angry bikies. If they even smell any vulnerability they will eat you for breakfast.

 

As above, so below, as below etc...

 

Why would anyone even bother hanging around the astral anyway ? Probably for healing others, service to your fellow humans beings.

 

Anyone got any more info on protection methods ?

 

 

Blessings to everyone.

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited November 19, 2013 by chegg

[Xienkula1]

I don't know if you realize that teachers who offer their teachings as paid services must comply with the laws of the country where the services are rendered. Any one of them who is in the public eye will say the same thing about an issue that could get them in legal trouble unless they say what is implicitly demanded of them by law.

 

As a result, any and all speeches they make on a legally sensitive subject boil down to "I'm not a threat, I conform and obey, please don't hurt me, Big Brother."

So true

[RongzomFan]

Lets say you are an average, heterosexual man in normal waking life and you decide to go for a walk. You approach a crowd of people. You see a hot babe with nice cleavage. A sensual thought comes to your mind. Bang ! Your hooked !

 

If you are relaxing in the knowledge of unfabricated awareness, this doesn't happen.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Lovely posts from everyone (especially Gigi's).

 

 

I just remembered an example on protecting oneself: (not sure if its a good one though)

 

 

Lets say you are an average, heterosexual man in normal waking life and you decide to go for a walk. You approach a crowd of people. You see a hot babe with nice cleavage. A sensual thought comes to your mind. Bang ! Your hooked ! Luckily, your physical body anchors you to your location on the sidewalk and prevents you from reaching across and grabbing those female mammary glands :-)

 

Now, you go into the astral, same deal. Because you have some training, you avoid desire driven activities and refrain from lusty thoughts and don't focus on the 'females'. So you go ahead and walk into a crowd of entities. Bang ! Now you've got 50 'females' instantly attacking your manhood and wanting to suck you energetically dry. Yikes !

 

So what would be a good form of protection ? I would guess a good one is old age. But this isn't enough. People/entities still like taking advantage of the elderly. You will still get attacked. What would be a good symbol ? Have a cross hanging around your neck and dress like a priest or a nun? This is a better one as entities will be less likely to attack that symbol.

 

There are all sorts of symbols you can use. The easiest ones are the ones you can just hang around your neck/body in waking life. The best ones are the ones you can create in the spirit world such as the six pointed Star of David. But this takes an enormous amount of concentration. Witchcraft uses the pentagram drawn on the floor together with a strong intent. Some Christians cover themselves in the blood of Jesus Christ (I find this to be the most powerful).

 

I'm guessing that using drugs makes it even harder and almost impossible to protect yourself. One must maintain absolute perfect control of thier desires and thoughts. Imagine walking into a bar full of angry bikies. If they even smell any vulnerability they will eat you for breakfast.

 

As above, so below, as below etc...

 

Why would anyone even bother hanging around the astral anyway ? Probably for healing others, service to your fellow humans beings.

 

Anyone got any more info on protection methods ?

 

 

Blessings to everyone.

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

 

Good post. You are referring to concept called Nafs in Islam. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs)

 

In Sufism, the most important thing is to purify Nafs. This is called "Tazkiah" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazkiah)

 

Nafs has seven stages. Each stage is connected to one main chakra.

 

I strongly recommend to read the book "Heart, Self, and Soul: The Sufi Psychology of Growth, Balance, and Harmony" by Ph.D. Robert Frager (http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Self-Soul-Psychology-Balance/dp/083560778X). The book explains Nafs (Self) in a great manner from a western eye.

 

One important aspect about protection methods is daily five times prayer in Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salat) If you are not a Muslim, daily, remember God Almighty and think that you cut the bond between your Nafs and physical body, such that you meditate on being one with God opening your heart. In the above mentioned book, at the end of each chapter, there are some exercises for Westerners. You do not have to be a Muslim or a Sufi to make those exercises. Very simple exercises those can be done at home.

 

Please give that book one chance. It is just $15.08 in Amazon.

Edited November 21, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[chegg]

Good post. You are referring to concept called Nafs in Islam. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs)

 

In Sufism, the most important thing is to purify Nafs. This is called "Tazkiah" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tazkiah)

 

Nafs has seven stages. Each stage is connected to one main chakra.

 

I strongly recommend to read the book "Heart, Self, and Soul: The Sufi Psychology of Growth, Balance, and Harmony" by Ph.D. Robert Frager (http://www.amazon.com/Heart-Self-Soul-Psychology-Balance/dp/083560778X). The book explains Nafs (Self) in a great manner from a western eye.

 

One important aspect about protection methods is daily five times prayer in Islam (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salat) If you are not a Muslim, daily, remember God Almighty and think that you cut the bond between your Nafs and physical body, such that you meditate on being one with God opening your heart. In the above mentioned book, at the end of each chapter, there are some exercises for Westerners. You do not have to be a Muslim or a Sufi to make those exercises. Very simple exercises those can be done at home.

 

Please give that book one chance. It is just $15.08 in Amazon.

 

Thankyou for the helpful info Mr Biri,

 

I would love to read the book you mentioned. I will add it to my increadibly long list of books to read but I may need two life times to get through them all

 

 

Blessings to you :wub: :wub:

Edited November 21, 2013 by chegg

[Isimsiz Biri]

Thankyou for the helpful info Mr Biri,

 

I would love to read the book you mentioned. I will add it to my increadibly long list of books to read but I may need two life times to get through them all

 

 

Blessings to you :wub: :wub:

 

 

Wa alaykumu s-salam

[Rara]

I have just seen this one on http://www.easterninternalarts.org/ (Q&A with Jenny Lamb) :

 

 

Dear Sifu Jenny,

Can you please share your insight about spiritual growth and the use of drugs?

What are the energetic implications, effect on Qi, Mind and how is this related to entities issues? When you treat a patient who is addicted to drugs, are there certain energetic symptoms you find only in drug users that are not found in non users?

How about people who are not smoking but affected by people smoking around them, is there any energetic effect too?

I see these days that it is becoming very popular and many who are interested in spiritual growth tell me it is great for development, but personally I have become convinced for both short term and long term it is not. Although I am not using any drugs I wish to have better understanding on its implications and mainly the energetic effects as there seems to be a lot of confusion around it these days as this is becoming more and more popular.

Another view that I hear is that many of the ancient masters in the past used these psychedelic plants to evolve spiritually. Is there any view of ancient masters in daoism and buddhism who used it and considered it beneficial?

I hope this may help bring a better clarity on the subject and help others who ask these same questions, perhaps asking themselves if they should stop smoking or not.

Thank you very much for your time to answer.

With Gratitude and Blessings,

 

Thank you for asking such important questions and thank you, Tom, for sharing your direct self-experience and knowledge (Tom's comments are on my Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/EasternInternalArts/). Your answers are thorough and insightful. I don't think I have anything to add from the user's perspective. Spirituality and drugs are a critical and sensitive topic for me to talk about in the West, because they are so popular with many followers. Yet, it is vital to have a proper understanding, especially for spiritual seekers. Therefore, I am going to stress this topic, from the perspective of spirituality (the view of Buddhism and Taoism) and as a healer, my observation of entity hosts related to using drugs.

Spirituality:

Buddhism teaches three things: discipline, concentration and wisdom. Discipline brings mindfulness to our actions and wards off unwholesome actions of body, speech and mind. It is to prevent transgressions. Sufficient discipline leads to good concentration and good concentration leads to wisdom. Wisdom gets rid of delusion, leads to liberation and the truth. Prajñāpāramitā (the Perfection of Wisdom) sutra, the heart sutra: "The Avalokiteśvara (Guanyin) Bodhisattva of compassion, while in profound contemplation of Prajna Paramita, beheld five skandhas (aggregates) as empty in their being and thus transcended all suffering." Profound and transcendent wisdom takes one to the other shore, the shore free from all suffering, which can only be attained through cultivation and practicing of meditation and contemplation. Liberation through wisdom is declared in all Buddhist sutras. There is no mention that drugs can help spiritual growth. In fact, they are refrained from, because they would prevent mindfulness, cause neglectfulness and interrupt the development of an enlightened mind. When inertness, neglectfulness and illusion arise the mode of ignorance predominates.

Taoism includes philosophical and religious traditions, both highlighting living in harmony with the Tao (way). Philosophical Taoism was presented by Laozi. It promotes the formless, mystical, and origin of all things. It is ultimately ineffable, therefore, "the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao". Philosophical Taoism emphasizes Wu Wei, (the effortless action, or action without intent), or Wei Wu Wei, (action without action). It asserts that one must follow the will of the natural universe in order to achieve harmony with the great Tao. Religious Taoism, on the other hand, sees divine manifestation in all things, sun, moon, stars, mountains, oceans and so forth, and features reverence for Laozi, immortals and ancestors. Their study is involved in almost every field: cosmology, astrology, divination, exorcism rituals, alchemy, Traditional Chinese medicine, feng shui, Qigong etc. and most of all is a quest for longevity or immortality. A Taoist sutra states that those whose body and mind follow the laws of nature, practice only the Tao (way), and serve the Tao (way) as a profession are called Taoist (身心顺理，唯道是从，从道为事，故称道士). This is referring to professionals, for those who follow the Taoist doctrine and practice its approaches are Taoist practitioners. Thus, practicing the way and promoting nature is the core of Taoism.

Alchemy is considered to be a main practice of religious Taoism. It includes Neidan and Waidan, or internal alchemy and external alchemy. Generally speaking, practicing alchemy refers to internal alchemy, focusing on cultivating substances of body known as the three treasures, e.g. Jing (life essence), Qi (vital energy) and Shen (spiritual energy). The four stages of Neidan (internal alchemy) practice are Zhu ji (or establish foundation), convert the Jing to Qi, convert the Qi to Shen, and return the Shen to its origin (or unify the Shen to the great void). It is energetic meditative practice. Waidan (external alchemy) refers to anything produced from outside of the body, such as elixirs which are produced from alchemical operations with external substances (cinnabar, realgar, mercury, sulfur, lead, etc). Many of these substances are actively toxic and far from contributing to longevity. It caused the death of the Jiajing Emperor in the Chinese Ming Dynasty. The Elixir of Life (pill of immortality) becomes the extinction of life (pill of life shortening). The true expression of external alchemy is referring to moving energy that exists outside of body. The Alchemy classics say that to obtain internal alchemy is primary and seeking the external is secondary. Only when internal alchemy is established, then you can absorb and fuse external alchemy (moving energy). Therefore, a true spiritual growth is always from within. Taking drugs for a short cut or easy way out is no more than obtaining an experience of curiosity. It could only satisfy your fantasy or be a temporary escape from this reality, but you are led astray without knowing. Getting deeper into this mind state is called Zou Huo Ru Mo 走火入魔（deviation）in Taoism.

The following illustrations that I encountered related with using drugs can be a good example to respond to your question:

Example 1: A person had an issue with no sensations from his neck down. He claimed he was a practitioner with great realizations and used to travel to different dimensions. He used to do meditation with hallucinatory plants and had used them more than a hundred times and now he could not feel anything except his head. He sought help everywhere, especially from different traditions, but nothing helped.

Example 2: One who thinks that he possibly has an entity in him, because, for over a decade, he has had a lot of the same symptoms that I point out in my article "Entity Issues". He has not been getting any answers from either Western or Eastern medical professionals. He also sought out help from bioenergetics healing. He said nothing really worked until he took Ayahuasca. He believed that Ayahuasca helped his physical issues. But a week later he was committed to a mental institution. Now he sees some physical problems restarting again and mental worries in many aspects and degrees. I don't want to go into all the details. In fact, Ayahuasca created a psychiatric break for him. Yet, he still believes that he had a lot of deep realizations from it. Illusion was dominating his mind.

Example 3: Someone coming to me for entity removal said he was in perfect health until he took Ayahausca. He claimed the journey was guided by a troubled shaman and left him in between worlds. Since then, he has trouble sleeping and wakes with nightmares. There is a lot of blame for others that he believes caused his entity issues. In fact, the entity has been around him for a while but could not enter his body because of his strong personality. When he took the trip for an Ayahausca journey, he was influenced by his entity. As soon as his mind was taken over by Ayahausca, the entity entered his body instantly.

Example 4: A young man went to a well know shaman for entity removal. Healing was applied with some of these hallucinatory plants. Plants did not remove his entity and instead brought him some other physical issues.

All that exists has its purpose in the world. Their structure, function and regulations are different. Some may coexist in the same space without conflict due to each following its own pathway to abide by. To be born as a human being, it may be wise to maximum your human potentiality first, instead of longing for something that you are not and having no idea what you are getting yourself into. Being human is valuable because of the uniqueness of our consciousness. We can make a choice. If we lose our consciousness, we lose the value of ourselves. Spiritual growth is referring to enhancing and enriching our ability toward awakening or moving up to a higher realm. If such plants or drugs or entities create confusion and destroy mindfulness, I do not see any benefit from a spiritual perspective. When your mind is distorted, you lose proper perceptions as a human being. You see sky is not sky, see earth is not earth, see water is not water. You become different beings, a ghost who does not see water as water, but as fire. When your mind cannot function and discern your situation correctly, your sensors perform erroneously.

While helping people with their entity related issues, when I see people's condition getting worse but hear them say that "I feel better" after entity removal is attempted unsuccessfully, I often ask, if you are getting better, why do you come to me for help? Actually, their mind is confused and sensors are disordered and cannot know the difference. Typically, after each failure of entity removal, the body gets tighter, heavier, and harder to breathe. There's a lack of oxygen going to the brain due to the entity cutting the source of their blood supply out of fear of what they did to get rid of them. The body becomes weaker and mind becomes more absent. How can there be any improvement as the result of a failed attempt?

"How about people who are not smoking but affected by people smoking around them, is there any energetic effect too?" Yes, it will have an energetic effect, depending on the level of smoke and the tolerance of the person. I know a friend who got a new job in an environment associated with marijuana in Colorado. Her mind suddenly shutdown and she was unable to function and felt very miserable. Quitting her job became her only solution and that is what she did.

"When you treat a patient who is addicted to drugs, are there certain energetic symptoms you find only in drug users that are not found in non users?" Those addicted to stimulants often show extreme emotionality and energy swings. Fighting their addiction will take more willpower, extra effort and support for them. I've found that those who used hallucinatory plants are more agitated and defensive if you say that what they perceived is illusion. They are convinced that the drugs gave them deep realizations and that they had a journey to a higher realm or a different dimension. Even if the vision horrified them, they deny that it was an illusion. They do not see that their experience was a hallucination and the result of the drug's influence. Moreover, they begin to suffer from health issues as a side effect of the drugs. Their system begins to shut down. In this case, if one does not admit to a false view and wrong doing, it cannot be helped. Blindly believing is unwholesome action. A reality check can be very helpful. To identify whether your connection is with a higher realm or lower realm can be seen from the following:

If your connection is with a higher realm (you do not need drugs for that), your body should feel lighter and brighter. You are full of Yang Qi. Your life is brightened. People around you feel comfortable and healing. You feel energetic, look younger, healthier and have more wisdom. You have a tendency to want to share your wisdom with others. The gift from higher beings is mainly two things: energy and wisdom. They commonly come with a group. Generosity is their nature. You feel safe. That given by them will never be involved with an exchange. As a matter of fact, there is nothing you can offer that will be of interest to them. But your virtue is a precondition for them to care to help you. If you are chosen for a higher purpose, they will protect you. Your life span could only increase not decrease. Your connection with them will not be broken (their support for you will be for your lifetime, which is merely a couple of days of their time), unless you become virtueless and lose your way.

If your connection is from a lower realm, everything is the opposite. Without drugs your journey ends (usually, drugs influence can last a few hours to a few days after each use). Connected with lower beings (entities), your health will gradually decline. Your body feels heavier and Yin Qi dominates. Your mind does not function properly and you have a hard time concentrating. Often, you have negative thoughts and prefer being alone and have social anxiety. You look unhealthy, older than your age, surrounded with dark force. People feel uncomfortable around you. You have a lack of wisdom, are always suspicious of others, feel very insecure and have a tendency to attack others. You will gradually develop depression, unbalanced emotions, and fear for no reason. Between you and your entity, exchange is an absolute request, your energy for their help. Your life span will decrease.

For the above reasons, whether for a short-term or long-term, I do not find psychedelic plants or drugs help spiritual growth, nor heal those patients that I encountered. On the contrary, I found that the hallucinatory drugs distort people's mind and damage their nervous system. For long term use, it is more harmful than what one wishes for. For short term use, it may produce a unique experience to satisfy one's curiosity (still, it depends on individuals, some experiencing more suffering than joy) but it does not produce an awakened mind. Some even pollute one's Qi and blood. I am not saying these plants are not good for anything or anything is wrong with them. It is the users who made a wrong choice for their purpose. You must know what you are doing and what you getting yourself involved in. There are many better options and less harmful than using drugs. We live on our choices and are responsible for our choices.

Proper understanding is crucial for spiritual development. Longing for what and how to get it leads to different paths. If you are longing for something external, the true external energy (outside of self) that can profit you only comes from a higher source or higher realm. According to Buddhism, the higher realm above human is the God realm or beings that are beyond our cyclic realms such as Bodhisattvas or Buddhas. In Taoism, the higher realm is Xianjie仙界or the immortal realm. Taking (internal use) hallucinatory plants for magic will not lead you to a higher realm.

In ancient times, to contact higher realms, some masters used (external use) many fragrant plants or materials to make incense, along with the highest valued elements from this world to conduct offering ceremonies. It is for establishing connections with higher beings for their guidance (wisdom) or help (to defuse worldly disasters), normally led by the Emperor or an accomplished master of religion. For individuals, this is practiced on a small scale for a personal request. The offering is for the purpose of creating a pathway to send a message. Your offering is a presentation of your heart with highest value to you. Hopefully it will be received by some higher individuals and get their response. Be aware, they don't pity you because you are less fortunate. Causality regulates the universe. Your pure heart and virtue are the condition to motivate them to pay attention to you, or if you are an individual who is willing to make an extraordinary effort to change your life for the better, you may have a chance to succeed. They help you if you deserve their help, not to become greedier and more self-centered. When your connection is established, the generosity from above is truly given.

The true spiritual development is the transformation of consciousness into wisdom. Buddhists practice faith, effort, mindfulness, concentration, and discernment (wisdom), known as the five strengths in order to control the five sensory faculties (eyes, ears, nose, tongue, and body) and put a spotlight on the Enlightenment path.

Learning from others' experiences and taking others' failures as a mirror of our future could prevent many unnecessary mistakes in our life. I hope that Tom's and my little sharing can be of benefit to some who are walking on the right spiritual path.

Be happy, be healthy and be wise!

 

 

Bye

Some of this isn't true. Me an my gf have smoked copious amounts of pot and both get asked for ID still when buying alcohol (and she' s 31)

[Jetsun]

Ayahuasca is used more for healing rather than spiritual development, those who do use it legitimately for spiritual development use it to commune with the other plants in the rain forest and to contact spirits to gain information to heal, in other words you need a traditional shamanistic lifestyle of living in the rain forest in solitary and having a particular diet to progress. The shamanistic path generally isn't chosen by people themselves they are forced onto it and it is often considered a sort of curse rather than a good thing as it would mean you are outcast from society to a certain extent.

 

So I wouldn't advise taking Ayahuasca outside of the traditional environment, those who try to use it recreationally for fun really don't know what they are getting themselves in for because there is a strong chance you will spend the night being sick while simultaneously shitting yourself all while being utterly convinced that you are going to die! Which isn't my idea of fun. It is called the "vine of death" for a reason.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I personally will take something once every year or two to clear some stuff out. I find it very affective. I do this in a ritualistic environment, and prepare the plant. Then after that, it is up to the plant how we proceed. I have learned (the hard way) to not give the plant a list which is too long, or it will suddenly stay active for 3 times as long as it usually should .

 

Also, I have found that work can also be done taking doses so small that you barely feel the affect, or not enough to have any affect, or in some cases if you really put time into the preparation just carrying the plant with you. While the deep altered state can be useful, I do not believe it is necessary for most things. I haven't found anyone else who agrees on this with me, but this is my own personal experience. The plant spirit can still lead you through the experience if you allow it, but prefer to work with it more often, or perhaps on a weeknight. The main difference though is that unless you really put a lot into it, the session could end up being much shorter.

 

So I guess I would sum up to say I work with the plant spirits more than looking for the specific biochemical affect on my physical body.

 

On a side note I have always felt that is you *need* the extra plant help to reach certain states or to see certain things, you are not doing it right, and could impair your practice in the sense of not being able to just get into the proper state any old time, on your own.

[Xienkula1]

Simply gross how we just appropriate these indigenous plant spirits with little to minimal regard or understanding of traditional knowledge of them driven by over-privileged first world whim and fancy to advance faster as if reducing traditional medicines to nothing more than making an extraction and kicking back a dose of some kind.....guess we all start somewhere but not without some risk...

[RongzomFan]

If you meditate, you can get the same effect as if you are on drugs.

[Spotless]

I have heard many Taoists, Buddhists (even teachers!) and some innovative, successful business people that have all cited psychedelics as extremely important for starting them off on their spiritual journeys. I too agree I probably wouldn't be where I am if I didn't hit the weed. I grew up in a very conservative town so escaping with a joint and listening to bands that planted seeds of spirituality certainly got me interested in exploration!"

 

I do not advocate drugs and there are already some very good posts in these forums on the very same question - that said - for me it may have been mushrooms that put me on an intense path of self awakening or it awoke in me the focus from past lives.

 

I came from a somewhat isolated wealthy town in Minnesota with a heritage of the silly western religious foundations.

 

I did very few drugs (and none of them until college - with the exception of smoking a joint or hash a few times) and took the experience and the setup very seriously when I did - upon the first mushroom experience I determined that I would work for the rest of my life to reach that level and beyond. It was a life changing and non-damaging experience. I attained well beyond that goal.

 

By around 8 or so it became obvious that the religion of my parents was not acceptable to me and I was in a certain sense on my path from an early age well before age 8, but the complete and utter organic earthy heavenly experience of the mushrooms was astonishing! - it took me out of the information jungle and put me hugely in my body, grounded firmly and vivifying everything to a degree that was spectacular. Sounds, air, textures, breath and a oneness - it would be very hard to dismiss this and I cannot say that it was bad for me in anyway.

 

I was immersed in philosophy in college but the grounding of the mushroom experience and the discipline of real yoga balanced my otherwise often heady nature.

 

my first experience with it was in Tahoe and then Yosemite by myself High Sierra camping

 

(An interesting side note: my very first experience smoking grass - I was maybe 11 - resulted in a kundalini flash that was pretty scary and extremely unexpected to say the least)

Edited November 26, 2013 by Spotless

[BaguaKicksAss]

If you meditate, you can get the same effect as if you are on drugs.

 

Yep.

[Harmonious Emptiness]

To me, drugs are like spiritual television -- you get to look at some of what there is to know, but watching it on tv for a while and actually living there, going to work there, walking next to the neighbours, feeling the rhythm of the day and hearing the silence as it turns to night... 'mhmmm

[Taomeow]

I have heard many Taoists, Buddhists (even teachers!) and some innovative, successful business people that have all cited psychedelics as extremely important for starting them off on their spiritual journeys. I too agree I probably wouldn't be where I am if I didn't hit the weed. I grew up in a very conservative town so escaping with a joint and listening to bands that planted seeds of spirituality certainly got me interested in exploration!

 

I do not advocate drugs and there are already some very good posts in these forums on the very same question - that said - for me it may have been mushrooms that put me on an intense path of self awakening or it awoke in me the focus from past lives.

 

I came from a somewhat isolated wealthy town in Minnesota with a heritage of the silly western religious foundations.

 

I did very few drugs (and none of them until college - with the exception of smoking a joint or hash a few times) and took the experience and the setup very seriously when I did - upon the first mushroom experience I determined that I would work for the rest of my life to reach that level and beyond. It was a life changing and non-damaging experience. I attained well beyond that goal.

 

By around 8 or so it became obvious that the religion of my parents was not acceptable to me and I was in a certain sense on my path from an early age well before age 8, but the complete and utter organic earthy heavenly experience of the mushrooms was astonishing! - it took me out of the information jungle and put me hugely in my body, grounded firmly and vivifying everything to a degree that was spectacular. Sounds, air, textures, breath and a oneness - it would be very hard to dismiss this and I cannot say that it was bad for me in anyway.

 

I was immersed in philosophy in college but the grounding of the mushroom experience and the discipline of real yoga balanced my otherwise often heady nature.

 

my first experience with it was in Tahoe and then Yosemite by myself High Sierra camping

 

(An interesting side note: my very first experience smoking grass - I was maybe 11 - resulted in a kundalini flash that was pretty scary and extremely unexpected to say the least)

 

Very cool, thanks for telling the story.

 

Eleven, wow. Your kundalini must have thought... let me guess... "what have you been smoking?.."

 

I would never touch lab-made drugs, but I have to be extra careful with sacred plants too because I'm super sensitive. My first encounter was -- you won't believe it -- with belladonna, prescribed by a doctor in the old country in the form of eye drops. The doctor told me to drink a glass of milk with these, which was part of the protocol -- to detoxify the "side effects."

 

I took the drops with me going on vacation, which took place somewhere where I couldn't get any milk. So the first night I used the drops, I was thrown into my first dream-vision, and have had them ever since, roughly once a year, sometimes once every couple of years -- in any event, the venue was established and the effects were permanent and blended organically into everything else that happens in my life -- which I know as a number of states of consciousness that have little in common with each other: ordinary waking states, extraordinary waking states, ordinary dreams, extraordinary dreams, and dream-visions that are in a class of their own.

 

The first dream-vision I got courtesy of belladonna terrified me, and when I woke up I found myself in two worlds simultaneously -- the ordinary waking world was there, quite intact, but the vision world was also there, every bit as real. It was like that for as long as it took me to understand that I was supposed to make a choice -- which reality to commit to and which one to abandon. I chose the ordinary, and the other one immediately disappeared from my access (though never from my memory). Pretty educational for a 20-something with no religious or spiritual background whatsoever and nobody but atheists in four generations that went before. Some otherworldly power or other decided that the buck... er, the agnosticism... stops right there I guess.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Very cool, thanks for telling the story.

 

Eleven, wow. Your kundalini must have thought... let me guess... "what have you been smoking?.."

 

I would never touch lab-made drugs, but I have to be extra careful with sacred plants too because I'm super sensitive. My first encounter was -- you won't believe it -- with belladonna, prescribed by a doctor in the old country in the form of eye drops. The doctor told me to drink a glass of milk with these, which was part of the protocol -- to detoxify the "side effects."

 

I took the drops with me going on vacation, which took place somewhere where I couldn't get any milk. So the first night I used the drops, I was thrown into my first dream-vision, and have had them ever since, roughly once a year, sometimes once every couple of years -- in any event, the venue was established and the effects were permanent and blended organically into everything else that happens in my life -- which I know as a number of states of consciousness that have little in common with each other: ordinary waking states, extraordinary waking states, ordinary dreams, extraordinary dreams, and dream-visions that are in a class of their own.

 

The first dream-vision I got courtesy of belladonna terrified me, and when I woke up I found myself in two worlds simultaneously -- the ordinary waking world was there, quite intact, but the vision world was also there, every bit as real. It was like that for as long as it took me to understand that I was supposed to make a choice -- which reality to commit to and which one to abandon. I chose the ordinary, and the other one immediately disappeared from my access (though never from my memory). Pretty educational for a 20-something with no religious or spiritual background whatsoever and nobody but atheists in four generations that went before. Some otherworldly power or other decided that the buck... er, the agnosticism... stops right there I guess.

 

This sort of makes me wonder if perhaps the mind/spirit only needs to see something once, then has access to it thereever after. Also I figure the same affect would be true when sitting with a teacher (but no plant enhancements).

 

I had a VERY vivid OBE experience after picking belladonna berries one day, doesn't take much apparently .

[Mal]

"You are not what you think you are.. but what you think, you are "

 

I recall that once upon a time it was though that nobody could run a 4 minute mile, it was impossible apparently ... but once Roger Bannister achieved it so did several others in the following year and I'm told now that good highschool runners can http://www.nomeatathlete.com/4-minute-mile-certainty/

 

this may be of interest

 

http://vimeo.com/75940226

Kilindi Iyi is the Head Instructor and Technical Advisor of the Tamerrian Martial Art Institute. He is a mycologist, teacher and world traveler who has presented on the subject of high-dose psilocybin from the US to Norway to Australia. Filmed at Breaking Convention 2013