道教重要思想与教义(Taoist Important Thoughts and Canon)

[xor]

 

Sorry, xor, this is very obscure. It is very difficult to translate into English to make sense to any reader. Besides, it is going confuse the issue here in this thread.

 

Allright. I'll watch quietly then what you have to say.

[dawei]

To a Taoist, Xing(性) it the mind of a person; and Ming(命) is the body of a person.

 

This isn't quite complete enough an understanding. Your first translation was much closer to showing it.

 

Simple language is used for simple explanation but will lack in complete meaning; Mind and body is more like a Qigong understanding whereby Longevity is through prevention. It is post-heaven in focus. Alchemy is Longevity through restoration. It is pre-heaven in focus. The meaning goes deeper and not just a dictionary can explain it.

 

You had said:

> Xing is the mind, thoughts, one's nature, personality, and spirit. Ming is the body, life, energy, destiny, and substance.

 

This is more complete.

 

> The dual cultivation of Xing and Ming which means the cultivation for "the spirit and the form".

 

You left out the word 'simultaneous' and missed the unity of the meaning. Simultaneous cultivation of the Spirit-Form. This is the end goal, a singular Yang Spirit (Shen), not two things.

 

> The spirit is the mind and form is the body.

 

This is not what the chinese said. The original talks of the unity of the person, not parts.

 

One cannot just look at the beginning process to explain the full meaning; one needs to understand the process and end goal. Only then will one understand the beginning process better; and that is it not just mind and body.

 

Mind and body are temporal... Qigong works on temporal aspects; Alchemy on the eternal aspects. It is for this reason many cannot explain Alchemy as they only understand Qigong and see the meanings are similar in word use.

 

 

I'll explain more in answer to Dragon X question on Form vs Essence... that is one key to understanding.

[dawei]

2) Is the ...Form-Chi-Spirit the same as the Essence-Chi-Spirit ov the 3 Treasures

 

This is a good question and the surface answer is Yes... but we need to get to the depth of meaning to understand why.

 

It is not about Body is Form or Form is essence... the Alchemy process is one of consolidating, integrating, restoring the Unity. If we just talk about the parts, we loose the end game idea.

 

Consider the following aspect of unity and end game of Xing-Ming:

"Without form, spirit will vanish; without spirit, form is lifeless".

 

Not the parts as 'Spirit and Form'... that is in parts and reveals a lose of meaning. Spirit-Form is the unity. It is the goal of Alchemy, the arising of the Yang Spirit. Xing and Ming are united as one.

 

Where does it start? With restoring original essence (yuan jing). This eventually leads to the Spirit-Form.

 

Consider this from the Zhong He Ji text:

Xing is the perfect Spirit (shen) prior to Heaven: it is the One Numen. Ming is the perfect Essence (jing) prior to Heaven: it is the One Breath. Essence and Spirit are the roots of Xing and Ming. . . . Tr. Pregadio

 

When the roots [essence and Spirit] combine in unity, they establish the Spirit-Form; the Yang Spirit. Xing-Mang unite.

 

When a person looks at a newborn baby for the first time, one thought which is hard to completely understand and swirls in the head is; How did this essence (jing/sperm) give rise to such a form?

 

Now for a spoiler:

Pregadio wrote: “the notion of generating an inner embryo is not a neidan innovation,” ... “The image of the embryo changes according to the understanding of neidan itself.”

 

The Xing-Ming goal of the Spirit-form, or Yang Spirit, has it roots in the much earlier inner alchemy of the inner embryo, or inner spirits which are to be formed and nourished... and this has it's ultimate root in Laozi...

Edited November 26, 2013 by dawei

[ChiDragon]

Continue with the OP document.....

性命双修的适用范围
The suitable application for the dual cultivation of Xing and Ming.

道教关於性命双修的理论，就其一般原则而言，既可以用於道教信众，亦可用於世俗人群，既可以用於古代社会，又可以用於现代社会。从一定意义上说，非教徒和现代人更应该重视性命双修，因为现代社会相当数量的人，性与命两个方面都出现严重的病态，如不加以解决，将危及人类的身心健康。心性生命即精神生命方面的病态主要是缺乏信仰和理想，趋向功利实用和短期行为，生活日益浅薄化和狭隘化。形体生命即生理生命方面的病态主要是环境恶化、不良嗜好以及过度享受造成生理损害、生命力脆弱和恶性疾病中。要解决这些问题固然要靠环境改善，同时也要靠人的主观修炼，并且去改造环境。若多数人懂得并且去努力实践性命双修，人生与社会的健康化进程会大大加快。

Regarding to the theory of the Dual Cultivation of Xing and Ming of the Toajiao(道教, Taoist Religion), Generally speaking, it can be applied to the Taojiao disciples as as well as the ordinary people. Also, it is applicable to the ancient society as well as modern. Speaking from a particular point of view, the non-Taoist disciples and the temporal people should be seriously considered the Dual Cultivation of Xing and Ming. It is because, nowadays, there are quite a number of people having serious problems with Xing and Ming. If the problems have not been resolved, then, it will effect the health of the body and mind. The intellectual mind(心性) which is the spirit of the body, its major symptom is the lack of beliefs and idealism. Their trend is to gain something pragmatically and short term which make life less fruitful and narrower. The body(形体) with physiological problems are mainly caused by the environmental impact. In addition, our bad habits and over leisure were creating some chronic problems; and the body is in the process of weakening and deteriorating. To resolve all these problems, it is definitely to improve the environment. At the same, it is also to cultivate oneself subjectively. If people aware of the significance of the Dual Cultivation of Xing and MIng, then, the health of our lives and the society will be in progress at a much faster rate.

Edited November 26, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

性命双修的现实意义
The pragmatic meaning of the Dual Cultivation of Xing and Ming

心理健康与生理健康同时并重。不但要追求强壮体魄，也要追求健全的心理素质，使精神生命和生理生命两个方面都得到活泼的发展，这才能有真正的幸福人生。《性命圭旨》的说法是：神不离气，气不离神;性不离命，命不离性

The psychological and physiological health are equally important. It was only to pursuit a strong and healthy body but also a complete healthy psychological quality of the mind. Hence, this will let the spiritual and physical lives to have a lively development; and attain the true happiness in our lives. In the classic of 性命圭旨, it says: Shen does not depart from the Chi and Chi does not depart from Shen, the spiritual mind does not depart from the body(命) and the body does not depart from the spiritual mind(形)

以生理变化心理，以心理变化生理。体弱多病者先从命功入手，炼精化气，去病健身，然后心神安定， 炼气化神，炼神还虚，提高精神境界。心理脆弱或行为不良者，则先从性功入手，炼己筑基，排除私心杂念，调整平衡，提高追求层次，开拓心胸情怀，然后配合服药和炼气，性能得到良好的效验。性功与命功可以在不同时候有不同侧重，但要互相带动，共同长进。

Let the physiological function of the body change the psychological function of the mind, and let the psychological function mind change the physiological function of the body. One who has physical problems should start with the Ming Kung first. Refine Jing to Chi to eliminate the illness and invigorate the body. Then to pacify the mind next; refine Chi to Shen, refine Shen to Void; this to elevate the state of the spiritual subconsciousness to the highest realm. One who has a weak psychological mind and bad habits, then, one should begin with the practice of Xing Kung, cultivate oneself with a fundamental foundation by removing the selfishness and distracting thoughts, mental balancing, pursuit and elevate thoughts to higher levels, open up the heart and mind, then supplement with medicine and practice breathing to have the mind attain its highest functional efficacy. Xing Kung and Ming Kung can be performed separately with different magnitude but they are must be mutually interact in a progressive manner with each other.

Note: Let's have a good understand what 功(Kung) means.
功(Kung) is the final end result from a diligent practice. It is, also, the efficacy acquired from a specific cultivated method to have the highest functional performance in a particular area or something.
Therefore, Ming Kung is a method for the practice to acquire the highest functional performance of the body.

性命双修要循序渐进，由低到高，由浅入深。内丹家有"初关、中关、上关"之说，有得窍、和合得药、脱胎;之说，有先摄心修性，次炼化精气修命，最后粉碎虚空;之说，要不出初级、中级、高级三大阶段，次弟而上，不可躐等。无论心灵的净化、境界的提升，还是气血的调适、体质的强化，都不是一蹴而就的事，要勤学苦练，长期坚持，不断体悟和反省，才能渐入佳境。当然渐中有顿，这是自然得来，不可强求。

The Dual Cultivation of Xing and Ming should be performed sequentially in a progressive manner; from low level to high, and from shallow to profound. The Neidan-ist had spoken of the "beginning level, middle, and advanced"......................................................Whatever it was, form purifying the spiritual heart, elevated to the next realm, regulating the chi-blood, or the enhancement of the quality of the body, it cannot be done in a second, it needs lots of endurance to practice diligently. It is a long term project which needs continuance of body sensation and mental intuition to progress into the realm of refinement. Of course, there are some hardships but it has to be acquired naturally, not forcefully.

Edited July 10, 2014 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

性命双修修习的方法
The procedure to cultivate the Dual Cultivation of Xing and Ming(DCXM).

由于人的存在既离不开性也离不开命，是性与命的统一体，所以养生修道惟有性命双修方能建功；否则，只修性则命不能保，只修命则性无以存，都不能达到性命常存、得道成仙的目的。所以养生修道必须遵循性命双修的原则。

It is because the existence of a person which is inseparable from the Xing and Ming. The body person is an integral part of them as a whole. Therefore, to have the functional efficacy of preserving life cultivating the principles of Tao is solely can be done by DCXM.Otherwise, if one only cultivate Xing, then it cannot preserve Ming. if one only cultivate Ming, then it cannot preserve Xing. Hence, it cannot preserve both at the same time or meeting the goal to become an immortal. Indeed, in the cultivation of the principle in preserving life, the principle of DCXM must be observed.

性命双修是一个综合的修习过程。它至少包括以下几项活动：
1. 理性认识活动，读书、请教、反省，对於自己的状态和追求的人生目标，有一个清醒认识。
2. 道德修养活动，树立远大思想，协调人际关系，增强仁爱之心。
3. 形体锻炼活动，包括治病、气轼、运动、营养及良好的生活方式、作息制度等，不必求难贪高，只求简便易行，适合自己。

The DCXM is a multi-practice procedural routine. At least, it includes the following activities:
1. Rational activities are reading, learning, introspection, self image and pursuit a goal in life, should have a lucid understanding all of the above.
2. The cultivation of moral conduct activities are to broaden one's wisdom, be harmonious with public relationship, to have a merciful heart.
3. Physical body cultivation activities includes cure illnesses, 气轼(?), exercise, having nutritional foods and good living habits. Don't be avaricious and go beyond one's ability but only do whatever is suitable for oneself.

社会实践活动，内丹家强调;内外双修;功行两全，不仅要修性功、命功，还要利物济生、苦己利人、参与社会、积累功德，使性命双修在社会生活中见到实效。以上几项活动事实还是结合在一起，彼此穿插进行的，不可机械分割。

The actual activities in society, the Neidan-ist insisted the cultivation should be done externally and internally, not just to cultivate the Xing Kung and Ming kung; but also should help all the living beings, sacrifice with painstaking to benefit others, participate and be active in society, to be virtuous. Let the actual effect of DCXM be revealed in society. The above list of the activities ought to be combined and interact accordingly and randomly rather than carried out mechanically.

作为教外之士，很难理解和体会内丹家的具有宗教神秘性的高级修习状态，但一般人仍然可以从性命双修的理论中吸收做人、做事和健身的生命智慧，使人生变得更健康、更美好。

Those who are outside of the Taoist Religion(Taojiao) may be unintelligible or comprehend the high cultivated level of the religious mystery. However, most people may enhance their wisdom by absorbing the principle of the DCXM to be a better person, in handling personal affairs, and invigorate their bodies. As a result, all that will make our lives to be more healthier and wonderful.


HAPPY THANKSGIVING
TBC.......on 12/1/2013

Edited July 11, 2014 by ChiDragon

[Dragon X]

Thanx to all who answered my questions. And Thanx to all who will answer

i feel like a 5yr old boy in a roomful of highly educated men.

i look forward to readin more and readin what i've already read

one day i will be the man in the room teachin those who have come to learn

 

p.s all this talk about Xing & Ming and the xplanations have served to step

up my practice more

[ChiDragon]

真(Zhen) in 真人(Zhen ren) is about what is "TRUE" rather than what is the "TRUTH".

We have true value, true measurement, and true north. To look into what is a "True Person" we must have a general idea about these three factors.
1. True value is the actual price of the merchandise for what it is worth.
2. True measurement is a measurement that was made to the most accuracy which all the errors had been taken into account.
3. True North is when the deviation had been considered to correct the measurement of the magnetic north to find the most accurate direction.

Let's say the actual value of a merchandise is $100. For some reason, the owner needs the money badly and sold it for $50. Another owner might be greedy and sold it for $200 but the actual value is the true value of the merchandise.

Edited December 2, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

Objective vs subjective.

[ChiDragon]

The basic fundamental beliefs of the ZuanzhenJiao(全真教).

首先，全真道受晚唐北宋以「三教合一」思潮影響，在教義及修道方面極力標榜「三備圓融」。

自稱以「太上為祖，釋迦為宗，夫子為科牌」，不獨尊道教教主。

王重陽勸導徒眾誦讀道教道德經、清靜經、佛教心經、儒家孝經，不獨奉道教經典。

儒釋道三教之學，本來各有其宗旨，宋儒言「理」，禪宗明「性」，道教修「命」。

　

但是全真道認為「天下無二道，聖人不兩心」，三教之學皆不離「大道」，亦即全真道。

全真的意思是「全其本真」，即保全作為人性命之根本的精氣神三要素，使其不受污損。

「全精、全氣、全神」，是全真道修持的最高目標。

　

其次，全真道在修持方面反對道教傳統的外丹燒煉和符籙驅鬼之術，

而師法晚唐北宋以來新興的鍾呂內丹派方術，主張「性命雙修」。

性命雙修之說在北宋張白端悟真篇中已有較詳論述，不過張氏及其門徒主張先修命功，後修性功，

全真道則主張先性後命，以修性為主，強調以識心見性為修仙正途。

　

「識心見性」本是禪宗提倡的修持方法，全真道卻以之作為修道成仙的根本途徑。

全真本而四大假合而成的肉體則有生有滅，不可能永存不死。

人的真心真性本來清靜無染，但世人皆被後天的物欲所迷惑，不識自心真性，因而流轉生死苦海，不得解脫。

修行者若能在心地上做功夫，對境忘緣，誠心靜慮，一念回光，識得自心真性，保持不亂，便可證得無形無相的「法身」，使精神超越生死之外。

　

王重陽說 : 「是這真性不亂，萬緣不掛，不去不來，此是長生不死也。」

這樣，全真道對道教早期的修道成仙信仰作了重大的改變，從追求肉體長生不死，飛升上清，轉變為精神超越長存而形體不離凡間。王嚞在重陽立教十五論中宣稱 : 內丹修煉以鍛煉性命為根本，修煉上，形寄於塵中而心明於物外，離凡世是指心離而非身離。

　

他說 : 「心忘慮念即超欲界，心忘諸境即超色界，不著空見即超無色界」，離此三界，則心神可居仙境。

這一思想源於隋唐道教的重玄哲學。 全真道在宣揚成仙升天的同時，還要求其信徒必須有克已忍辱，清修自苦精神。

　

王重陽及其弟子吸取佛教人生觀，極力渲染人生短促無常及六道輪回之苦，勸導人們看破功名富貴，家財妻子皆虛幻不實，

立志求道學仙，追求「天上真樂」，脫離人間「火宅」。

因此全真道規定道士必須出家住觀，尊守嚴格的清規戒律，不娶妻室，不茹葷腥，居處不雕樑峻宇，要斷除酒色財氣，

攀援愛念，憂愁思慮，乃至遏制食睡色三種基本的生理需要。

苦煉積功，苦行濟世，如此才能超凡入聖全真道祖師王重陽及七大弟子，大體都能保持這種自甘勤苦，

安貧守賤的全真精神，以「異跡驚人，奇行感人」。


Ref: How Zuanzhenjiao was found

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[dawei]

真(Zhen) in 真人(Zhen ren) is about what is "TRUE" rather than what is the "TRUTH".

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32561-the-teaching-of-quanzhen/?p=498255

[ChiDragon]

真(Zhen) in 真人(Zhen ren) is about what is "TRUE" rather than what is the "TRUTH".

 

We have true value, true measurement, and true north. To look into what is a "True Person" we must have a general idea about these three factors.

1. True value is the actual price of the merchandise for what it is worth.

2. True measurement is a measurement that was made to the most accuracy which all the errors had been taken into account.

3. True North is when the deviation had been considered to correct the measurement of the magnetic north to find the most accurate direction.

 

Let's say the actual value of a merchandise is $100. For some reason, the owner needs the money badly and sold it for $50. Another owner might be greedy and sold it for $200 but the actual value is the true value of the merchandise.

 

Please be patient! This is only an introduction. When I get done with the next translation, you'll know what a "True Person" is.

Edited December 3, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

首先，全真道受晚唐北宋以「三教合一」思潮影響，在教義及修道方面極力標榜「三備圓融」。

自稱以「太上為祖，釋迦為宗，夫子為科牌」，不獨尊道教教主。

 

王重陽勸導徒眾誦讀道教道德經、清靜經、佛教心經、儒家孝經，不獨奉道教經典。

儒釋道三教之學，本來各有其宗旨，宋儒言「理」，禪宗明「性」，道教修「命」。

　

但是全真道認為「天下無二道，聖人不兩心」，三教之學皆不離「大道」，亦即全真道。

全真的意思是「全其本真」，即保全作為人性命之根本的精氣神三要素，使其不受污損。

「全精、全氣、全神」，是全真道修持的最高目標。

 

First of all, during the later part of the Tang Dynasty and The Northern Sung Dynasty, the thinking of 全真道(The All True Tao) was influenced by the integration of the three religions. During the Tang Dynasty, the three religions such as Taoism, Buddhism and Confucian were having great conflicts among them with their beliefs. Hence, the ruler issued a decree to combine their beliefs into a common one and have harmony among them. There was no founders from the three religions credited to the new Taoist religion. They only address the three sages are as Lao Tze as the ancestry founder of Taojiao(道教), Śākyamuni as the originator of Buddhism, and Confucius as the scholar model. No one have claimed to be the head of Taojiao.

 

王重陽(Wang Zhongyang) advised his disciples to study the Tao Te Ching(道德經), Qing Jing Ching(清靜經), Buddhist Heart Ching(佛教心經) other than the Taoist Classics. The three religions have their own original philosophies, Confucian in the Sung Dynasty spoken of principles(理), Zen Zhong(禪宗) understands Xing(性), and the Taoist cultivates Ming(命).

 

The All True Tao reckon that "there is only one Tao in the world, a sage only has one belief" Therefore, the principles of the three religions are inextricable from the Great Tao. It was know as the 全真道. The meaning of 全真(Zuanzhen) is 「全其本真」, "everything there is, all is true". Another words, it is to keep the roots of human life, which are the three elements of 精(Jing), 氣(Chi), 神(Shen), pure without contaminants. The All Jing(全精), All Chi(全氣), All Shen(全神) are to be cultivated is the ultimate goal of the 全真道.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

　

其次，全真道在修持方面反對道教傳統的外丹燒煉和符籙驅鬼之術，

而師法晚唐北宋以來新興的鍾呂內丹派方術，主張「性命雙修」。

性命雙修之說在北宋張白端悟真篇中已有較詳論述，不過張氏及其門徒主張先修命功，後修性功，

全真道則主張先性後命，以修性為主，強調以識心見性為修仙正途。

　

「識心見性」本是禪宗提倡的修持方法，全真道卻以之作為修道成仙的根本途徑。

全真本而四大假合而成的肉體則有生有滅，不可能永存不死。

人的真心真性本來清靜無染，但世人皆被後天的物欲所迷惑，不識自心真性，因而流轉生死苦海，不得解脫。

修行者若能在心地上做功夫，對境忘緣，誠心靜慮，一念回光，識得自心真性，保持不亂，便可證得無形無相的「法身」，使精神超越生死之外。

Secondly, in the cultivation of the Quanzhen Tao(全真道), they are against the external alchemy(外丹燒煉) or using talisman of any sort for exorcism. During the late Tang Dynasty and Northern Sung, the original idea of the

burgeoning Niedan method was from 鍾(離權) and 呂(洞賓). It was advocated to cultivate the Dual Cultivation of Xing and Ming(DCXM). Speaking of he DCXM, it was explicitly explained by 張白端(Zhang Baiduan) in his classic, 悟真篇, during the Northern Sung Dynasty. However, Zhang and his disciples advocate that the cultivation of Ming Kung is primary and the Xing Kung is secondary. In the other hand, Zuanzhen Tao advocates that the Xing Kung is the primary, insisted that by 「識心見性」("knowing the heart and seeing the mind") is the proper way to advance toward immortality.

 

The cultivation method of "Knowing the heart and seeing the mind", 「識心見性」, was originated from the Zen(禪宗) in Buddhism; but Quanzhen Tao(全真道) thought it was the basic route for their cultivation to immortality. The true heart(真心) and true mind(真性) of a person originally were pure and still and not contaminated. However, the people became perplexed by the materialistic world and tempted allures which made them loose their hearts and minds. Therefore, they had putted their minds into the state of perturbation and not able to extricate themselves from it. If the cultivator can put some work into the mind, forgetting the environmental influence and devote one's heart to be freed from disturbance, with all thoughts return to see the light again, recognize one's true heart and mind are maintaining undisturbed, then, all that is an indication of an invisible cultivated body which has been acquired. In addition, it's letting the spiritual soul of the body to be transcended beyond the realm of life and death.

Edited December 6, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

　

王重陽說 : 「是這真性不亂，萬緣不掛，不去不來，此是長生不死也。」

這樣，全真道對道教早期的修道成仙信仰作了重大的改變，從追求肉體長生不死，飛升上清，轉變為精神超越長存而形體不離凡間。王嚞在重陽立教十五論中宣稱 : 內丹修煉以鍛煉性命為根本，修煉上，形寄於塵中而心明於物外，離凡世是指心離而非身離。

　

他說 : 「心忘慮念即超欲界，心忘諸境即超色界，不著空見即超無色界」，離此三界，則心神可居仙境。

這一思想源於隋唐道教的重玄哲學。 全真道在宣揚成仙升天的同時，還要求其信徒必須有克已忍辱，清修自苦精神。

 

 

王重陽(Wang Zhongyang) said: "If the true mind was not being perturbed, free of attachment, nothing is going or coming; then, that is longevity and immortality." This way, during the early stage, Quanzhen Tao had a drastic change in their beliefs to become an immortal. In stead of the pursuit to have the fleshing body immortalized and transcend to Heaven, but it was changed to have the spiritual soul to go beyond its existence forever and having the body stayed on Earth. Wang Zhe(王嚞) had declared that: "The root to the cultivation of Neidan is the DCXM. During cultivation, the imaging the invisible form is in the dust and the comprehension is beyond the materialistic world. Thus the separation from the world means only the mind rather than the body.

 

He said: "Forgetting the anxiety(慮念) in the heart means transcend the realm of desire, forgetting the milieu(諸境) means transcend the materialistic realm, . do not seek for chimera(空見) means transcend the non-materialistic realm." Remove oneself from the three realms, then the spiritual may dwell in the fairyland. This thinking was originated from the Taoist Religion metaphysics in the Sui(隋) and Tang(唐) Dynasties.

 

全真道在宣揚成仙升天的同時，還要求其信徒必須有克已忍辱，清修自苦精神。

Quanzhen Tao encourages the disciples who become immortalized and ascend to Heaven, at the same time, one should be self disciplined with patience to endure humiliation; and purely cultivated with stamina for painstaking.

Edited December 6, 2013 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

 

王重陽及其弟子吸取佛教人生觀，極力渲染人生短促無常及六道輪回之苦，勸導人們看破功名富貴，家財妻子皆虛幻不實，

立志求道學仙，追求「天上真樂」，脫離人間「火宅」。

因此全真道規定道士必須出家住觀，尊守嚴格的清規戒律，不娶妻室，不茹葷腥，居處不雕樑峻宇，要斷除酒色財氣，

攀援愛念，憂愁思慮，乃至遏制食睡色三種基本的生理需要。

苦煉積功，苦行濟世，如此才能超凡入聖全真道祖師王重陽及七大弟子，大體都能保持這種自甘勤苦，

安貧守賤的全真精神，以「異跡驚人，奇行感人」。

 

 

Wang Zhongyang and his disciples assimilated the point of view about living from Buddhism. They insisted to shorten the life and the six ways of karmic torment. Everyone was admonished to dismiss the urge for the rich and famous. The wealth and family are only an unrealistic illusion. The Taoists are determined to cultivate the principles of Tao and be an immortal; and pursuit the true heavenly happiness; and detach from the mortal world. Hence, QuanZhen Tao have stipulated that all their disciples to be abstinent and dwell in the Taoist Shrine permanently. They are restrict to abide by the canon, not being married, stay on a vegetarian diet, live in austere quarters and forbidden to the four taboos such as alcohol, sexual desire, wealth and temperament, do away with desire, worry and anxiety. In addition, regulate the necessity in diet, sleep, and materialistic. Discipline oneself in a virtuous manner, assist people under extreme hardship. Therefore. only this way that one can be transcended beyond the Grand Master Wang Zhongyang and his seven disciples. In general, one can maintain this kind of self discipline and diligence; and insisted in mundane and simple way of life style which is the spirit of the Quanzhen Tao. Let's have the people be surprised by "Our different ways of life; and be touched by our mystical action".

Edited December 6, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Marblehead]

And let the people see what a wasted life they have lived, denying their true nature and being a herd animal, which is totally against the Way of Tao, and still and yet none of them ever became an immortal.

 

 

Edit to add: Sorry ChiDragon. But then you likely knew that I wouldn't be able to keep my mouth shut.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Marblehead

[ChiDragon]

I have concluded the translation of the partial text with the pertinent information about the QuanZhen Tao Religion. There may be some open loops but I am willing to close them with discussions in the Taoist Discussion Forum. So, please feel free to address all your questions for clarification at the mentioned forum. Thank you very much!


@MH....
No problem, I love to hear things from one true-self.

[Marblehead]

Well, there are some Religious Taoist here so it could be a good discussion. And if possible, I will try to add to the discussion without presenting too many arguements against religion.

[hamida]

I have concluded the translation of the partial text with the pertinent information about the QuanZhen Tao Religion. There may be some open loops but I am willing to close them with discussions in the Taoist Discussion Forum. So, please feel free to address all your questions for clarification at the mentioned forum. Thank you very much!

 

 

@MH....

No problem, I love to hear things from one true-self.

 

I could not locate the Forum you mentioned, so I will post my question here.

 

Do you think the teaching of Quanchen Tao (全真道) has universal relevance and practicable across cultures or is it only

pertinent within the context of Chinese society?

[baiqi]

Do you think the teaching of Quanchen Tao (全真道) has universal relevance and practicable across cultures or is it only

pertinent within the context of Chinese society?

Unless we adapt it , it is pertinent only in the context of Chinese society.

 

Problem: adapt it without losing the essence...which is universal, it is not so different from other schools of spirituality.

[dawei]

Unless we adapt it , it is pertinent only in the context of Chinese society.

 

Problem: adapt it without losing the essence...which is universal, it is not so different from other schools of spirituality.

 

adapt it due to differences in the practitioner?

 

In what regard? mind, body, spirit ?

 

Let's get more specific please

[ChiDragon]

I could not locate the Forum you mentioned, so I will post my question here.

 

Do you think the teaching of Quanchen Tao (全真道) has universal relevance and practicable across cultures or is it only

pertinent within the context of Chinese society?

 

It seems to me that other cultures do not see it that way due to the language difficulty; and the true meaning of Quanchen Tao (全真道) had been altered, in the translation, to "Complete Reality". Since the translation didn't reflect its true meaning, my conclusion which leads me to say it is only pertinent within the context of Chinese society.

[hamida]

 

It seems to me that other cultures do not see it that way due to the language difficulty; and the true meaning of Quanchen Tao (全真道) had been altered, in the translation, to "Complete Reality". Since the translation didn't reflect its true meaning, my conclusion which leads me to say it is only pertinent within the context of Chinese society.

 

Western sinologists would take issue with your view on language barrier. However, my research show that your contention does have merit.

 

Regarding the conversation about the precise conceptual meanings and dispositional usage of Chinese characters, I wonder if people who are not natives of the language could figure out what the natives thought. Not all languages are created equal. Grasping classical Chinese ideographs is not quite as easy as reading smoke signals.

 

There is a fundamental dichotomy between western philosophy and Chinese thought, an unbridgeable divide that comparative philosophy dismisses. The approach to the understanding of life in the west was not the same as that in China when early attempts were made to translate the Classics. European philosophy was considered superior. Were Chinese thinkers interested in truth? Were they correspondence theorists? These questions are apparently of interest to western intellectuals even today.

 

The Chinese ancients did not go down the same road as Aristotle and Plato and Russell and Moore. That is crystal clear. They were just not smart enough to break down their folk wisdom and musings into notations of sentential logic that enables even our artificially intelligent computers to figure out at the speed of light if truth were “p” or “q”. But we are going to be informed that they did too, in their own primitive way, when Chinese thought is deconstructed and made intelligible in western terms.

 

I am sure others here will have different arguments. If you could offer an example or two of the language difficulty you speak of with regard to specific passage on Quanchen Tao, it would clarify your point and open a discussion on this matter.

[opendao]

 

It seems to me that other cultures do not see it that way due to the language difficulty; and the true meaning of Quanchen Tao (全真道) had been altered, in the translation, to "Complete Reality". Since the translation didn't reflect its true meaning, my conclusion which leads me to say it is only pertinent within the context of Chinese society.

 

from the article you've translated, it's obvious that even the Chinese context doesn't help to understand Quanzhen (or any other Dao school). For sure, the language is a barrier. And Classic Chinese is another barrier. But so many people can read Classic Chinese, but so little can understand Quanzhen. The understanding is not about mind abilities, it needs much more, much deeper resonance with ancient ideas. It's possible to learn, but it's hard and it cannot be done sitting in the Internet. For people of any cultural context.