Yin chi number 3

[Thunder_Gooch]

(deleted to consolidate posts)

Edited November 29, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[BaguaKicksAss]

I view everything in this reality that isn't about ending rebirth a distraction and worthless. It's nothing personal.

 

Hmmmm, eating, sleeping, sex, bathing, (not necessarily in that order), the internet, working, writing, painting, magic, friends, loving, talking, martial arts, hiking, exercising???

 

Not saying I necessarily disagree, just wondering how expansive you are going with this .

 

I sorta kinda like my distractions personally. One day I might move over to 24x7 cultivation though.... there's some monks in caves who highly recommend it*

 

*Reference "amongst white clouds documentary; book by Red Pine.

[thamosh]

More Pie Guy,

 

There is more than one type of yin chi just as there is more than one dimension.

 

Currents of yin chi exist in the universe in outer space flowing thru planets.

 

The sun emits yang chi but has gravity as well.......think on this.

[Thunder_Gooch]

(deleted to consolidate posts)

Edited November 29, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[BaguaKicksAss]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[thamosh]

Prime example of the mods here....

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'm not a mod, (am staff tho) was an inside joke with MPG, poking a little fun (he loves grumpycat). The top quote is something I'd say. MPG if you are offended at all please let me know and I will remove it though.

[thamosh]

Ahhh I understand....

[Harmonious Emptiness]

Okay, so why is Kosta the authority on yin chi? Sure his accomplishments were nothing to dismiss, but he studied this one system, which is sort of an offshoot of Taoism. Why take his word over people in ancient Taoist lineages? Stillness Movement, I'm sure, isn't the only system which doesn't require sitting down to absorb yin chi.

 

I realize I'm pulling the conversation along further by asking this, but I'm amazed at the lack of logic I'm seeing here, and am interested to understand how one's mind works like this.

 

In regards to all Stillness Movement patients who could not be helped by western medicine, you're really basing your argument on the odds that all of these 1000s of patients were receiving treatment for something other than what their problem was? That doesn't seem just a little far fetched to you?

 

And, btw, I'm continuing this because you still say that you're going to slander someone and say they don't know what they're doing, nor what they're talking about, when that person has proven well beyond necessity that he does know both what he's doing and what he's talking about. You've also proven that YOU don't know what your talking about, and are just quoting what someone else said about something you yourself don't know about.

 

You are trying to stand in the way of someone teaching an effective system and lineage. That's pretty serious, and I'm happy to respond to your baseless claims, because 1) it's very easy to show how baseless they are, and 2) that system has helped thousands of people and stands to continue doing this work. Just because you refuse to look at the facts of it, and do not understand it, you continue imaging that your helping something by trying to stand in the way of it being taught. I'm trying to help you see what everybody else here sees, and that is the reality of your continued behaviour in this matter, which is very much STALKING a teacher, trolling, harassing, slandering, and disrupting.

 

So John Kosta said one thing. So what? He's got an opinion. It's not the be all and end all of Taoist spiritual sciences.

[xor]

I think you may have confused me with being part of somekind of consensus because I like asking questions. I still don't have a problem with there being "yin qi" defined by the book Magus of Java and another "yin qi" that has similiarities(and possible dissimiliarities) that I work with which may be "yang qi" in your books but isn't equal to the "yang qi" in mine. Maybe even SM has different "yin qi" from both as I have yet to study it.

 

edit: this is a reply to mpg on one of the nested quotes

Edited November 29, 2013 by xor

[Green Tiger]

I personally do not understand your group's obsession with making certain what you call yin chi is the same thing mo pai calls yin chi.

Did anyone say that? I don't think anyone said that. I think you said, "Hey guys, I know you think you've got yin chi, butcha don't. Only Mo Pai does, cuz we only meditate on the ground and ya'll are meditating up in the air. Neya neya."

 

Then some SM people said, "Nuh uh, we do so have yin chi." and SOME people may have even claimed it's the same yin chi as Mo Pai, but I think there were also some who were open to the possibility that they are different energies.

 

I don't think you have any ground to toss around group accusations like that.

 

How on earth do you think it is rational and logical to say two energies that are defined as having completely contradictory behaviors and mechanics are indeed the same energy.

 

How does that even begin to make any sense?

 

WHY can't they be different energies again?

No, they totally might be different energies. They could also be the exact same energy exhibiting different characteristics. We would have to come up with a definition of yin chi and a reliable way to detect it before we could conclude that, though.

 

I also do not understand how you guys get to play the victim and claim you are being attacked here. I am saying what SM is calling yin chi, and what MP are calling yin chi cannot be the same thing. If you think that is an attack you guys are in for a rude awakening when real life comes to visit.

 

There comes a time you need to look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself if you are defending something just for the sake of defending it, and not because it makes good rational sense to do so.

 

Employing histrionics, and screaming bloody murder that you are being attacked because someone is pointing out a logical inconsistency with a teachers statement is a prime example of this.

 

All of us here (myself included) know that this doesn't make good logical and rational sense.

 

You cannot define an energy as behaving a certain way and not a certain way, then turn around and say it is the same as an energy that behaves the opposite of that.

 

This is cut and dry.

 

Either insulators block the flow of yin energy or they do not.

 

 

Either you can pull in yin chi 30,000ft up mid flight on a plastic seat or you cannot.

 

 

Yin chi as defined by SM cannot be the same thing MP is calling Yin chi.

 

That's how it is, no matter if you like it or not, you are going to have to accept that and you are going to have to move on.

Really, this entire argument is all about definition. You define the words "yin chi" based on certain attributes you have come to know this word to be associated with. The S-M practitioners define it by the attributes they are familiar with. To be honest, I see some correlations between the two. You quoted Kostas as saying that the yin chi JC filled him with made him feel "full" and squeezed his bladder. That is a feeling I am very familiar with.

 

The only real difference I see is that the S-M people are able to practice their cultivation successfully anywhere. You say that yin chi can only be accessed when sitting on the ground with no insulation barrier. Okay, can you wear pants?

 

If so, that means the yin chi can get through your pants right? What is the threshold at which yin chi can no longer be successfully cultivated? What kind of pants can you wear? Blue jeans? Do they have to be cotton pants?

 

If you can't wear pants, then why is JC wearing that loin cloth in all of the pictures of him meditating? Is that modesty for the photo op? Is the loin cloth open at hui yin?

 

If you can't wear pants, does your perineum actually have to be making contact with the ground?

 

Your definition of yin chi is just very narrow compared to what most people are accustomed to and we could narrow it even further. I find this interesting and would like to explore it, but I think you need to give up your crusade to convince everyone that your definition of yin chi is the gold standard just because it comes from Mo Pai.

 

It may be that the yin chi you are talking about is somehow different from the yin chi that other people are talking about. How can we examine both to determine their similarities and differences? How can we approach this topic in the spirit of cooperation instead of competition? Because, let's face it folks, the world at large is against us. If this community spends more time arguing about the ways in which we differ than we do sharing and discussing our experiences, then I think we are wasting our time.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Green Tiger

[Brian]

A little about precedent...

 

Once upon a time, electricity was a mystery -- as was magnetism. It was clear that they were TOTALLY different.

 

Later it was discovered that there were two very different things called static electricity and dynamic electricity. Significantly different characteristics and obviously two different things. Until it was realized they were exactly the same thing, Only difference is frequency of vibration...

 

But light and electricity were clearly NOT the same thing because they in no way behaved the same. Until it was discovered that they are just different behaviors of the same thing. They found that light comes from vibrating electrons...

 

But light CLEARLY displayed particle-like behavior in some experiments and wave-like behavior in other experiments. Waves and particle projectiles are diametrically opposed propagation methods is OBVIOUSLY there were two kinds of light, or something. Until it was proven that it is the same thing. Turns out that the observer/experimenter has a lot to do with the manifestation -- look for particles and you find particles, look for waves and you find waves...

 

And it was also discovered that electricity and magnetism were exactly the same thing. Magnetism, they found, comes from the motion of electrons...

 

And it was realized that the heat radiating off a warm stove and visible light and radio waves and x-rays are all the same thing, despite tremendously different characteristics. Only difference is frequency of vibration...

 

So that left four fundamental forces known to physics -- electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force (these two have a common naming convention but VASTLY different characteristics and therefore clearly different things), and gravity.

 

Oh, but wait. Turns out that electromagnetism and the two subatomic "nuclear" forces are all one thing, too...

 

Quantum electrodynamics and the current understanding of the opening seconds of this universe's existence require that all of these apparent forces and all of the resultant particles (meaning all matter and energy in the universe) MUST have been variations which appeared from the oneness which appeared from nothing or who-knows-what in the opening split-seconds of the universe. A lot like Taoism says...

 

Gravity? Yeah, we haven't quite figured that one out yet but all the indications are that it is another manifestation of the same common whatever-it-is into which electricity and magnetism and light and the nuclear forces have been shown to be.

 

Sooo...

 

Turns out that the history of science is FULL of intelligent people in lab coats pounding on desks and vehemently proclaiming that these forces/energies/particles/what-have-you MUST be unique and different because they obviously display very different qualities, properties and characteristics, as documented by the most rigorous scientific research possible (at that point in time).

 

Could that possibly be the case here? Some say yes, some say perhaps and some say:

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: FWIW, this whole conductor, insulator, dirt, air thing is easily explained by scientific reasoning, too. (For those who are wondering, air is actually a conductor...)

 

 

EDIT2: Notice, please, that my commentary speaks from the viewpoint of the history of modern physics and NOT from the viewpoint of any system of energetic practice.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Brian

[Thunder_Gooch]

(deleted to consolidate posts)

 

(deleted to consolidate posts)

 

Edited December 15, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[BaguaKicksAss]

Out of curiosity MPG, could you please do a character or word count in notepad of the max limit post? I'm curious .

[Brian]

Name one specific electrical insulator which you find completely blocks the flow of mo pai yin chi, please?

[BaguaKicksAss]

OK so I think, that as humans, on this planet working our paths, we only see part of the whole big picture (or at least the various Deities I work with like to remind me of this from time to time!) Soooo I figure yin qi is pretty damn big. I doubt even a level 72 person can perceive all of its aspects and full spectrum. So picture a rainbow put into photoshop, then the "greyscale" settings selected. (sorry too lazy to give the actual image of this). Now picture a little arrow towards one part of said rainbow with the words "MoPai spectrum of yin qi". Then picture another arrow towards another section and it saying "S-M yin qi". Next an arrow towards another section and it saying "some other system's yin qi". Then the last section and arrow "the yin qi humans can't even perceive". I'm using a grey rainbow here for the analogy of many shades of grey instead of just black and white.

[BaguaKicksAss]

A little about precedent...

 

Once upon a time, electricity was a mystery -- as was magnetism. It was clear that they were TOTALLY different.

 

Later it was discovered that there were two very different things called static electricity and dynamic electricity. Significantly different characteristics and obviously two different things. Until it was realized they were exactly the same thing, Only difference is frequency of vibration...

 

But light and electricity were clearly NOT the same thing because they in no way behaved the same. Until it was discovered that they are just different behaviors of the same thing. They found that light comes from vibrating electrons...

 

But light CLEARLY displayed particle-like behavior in some experiments and wave-like behavior in other experiments. Waves and particle projectiles are diametrically opposed propagation methods is OBVIOUSLY there were two kinds of light, or something. Until it was proven that it is the same thing. Turns out that the observer/experimenter has a lot to do with the manifestation -- look for particles and you find particles, look for waves and you find waves...

 

And it was also discovered that electricity and magnetism were exactly the same thing. Magnetism, they found, comes from the motion of electrons...

 

And it was realized that the heat radiating off a warm stove and visible light and radio waves and x-rays are all the same thing, despite tremendously different characteristics. Only difference is frequency of vibration...

 

So that left four fundamental forces known to physics -- electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force (these two have a common naming convention but VASTLY different characteristics and therefore clearly different things), and gravity.

 

Oh, but wait. Turns out that electromagnetism and the two subatomic "nuclear" forces are all one thing, too...

 

Quantum electrodynamics and the current understanding of the opening seconds of this universe's existence require that all of these apparent forces and all of the resultant particles (meaning all matter and energy in the universe) MUST have been variations which appeared from the oneness which appeared from nothing or who-knows-what in the opening split-seconds of the universe. A lot like Taoism says...

 

Gravity? Yeah, we haven't quite figured that one out yet but all the indications are that it is another manifestation of the same common whatever-it-is into which electricity and magnetism and light and the nuclear forces have been shown to be.

 

Sooo...

 

Turns out that the history of science is FULL of intelligent people in lab coats pounding on desks and vehemently proclaiming that these forces/energies/particles/what-have-you MUST be unique and different because they obviously display very different qualities, properties and characteristics, as documented by the most rigorous scientific research possible (at that point in time).

 

Could that possibly be the case here? Some say yes, some say perhaps and some say:

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: FWIW, this whole conductor, insulator, dirt, air thing is easily explained by scientific reasoning, too. (For those who are wondering, air is actually a conductor...)

 

 

EDIT2: Notice, please, that my commentary speaks from the viewpoint of the history of modern physics and NOT from the viewpoint of any system of energetic practice.

 

 

 

 

 

[Brian]

OK so I think, that as humans, on this planet working our paths, we only see part of the whole big picture (or at least the various Deities I work with like to remind me of this from time to time!) Soooo I figure yin qi is pretty damn big. I doubt even a level 72 person can perceive all of its aspects and full spectrum. So picture a rainbow put into photoshop, then the "greyscale" settings selected. (sorry too lazy to give the actual image of this). Now picture a little arrow towards one part of said rainbow with the words "MoPai spectrum of yin qi". Then picture another arrow towards another section and it saying "S-M yin qi". Next an arrow towards another section and it saying "some other system's yin qi". Then the last section and arrow "the yin qi humans can't even perceive". I'm using a grey rainbow here for the analogy of many shades of grey instead of just black and white.

 

This concept is in harmony with what I've been saying all along, BKA. Personally, I'd take it a step farther and have this rainbow include ALL energy, not just yin chi.

[BaguaKicksAss]

This concept is in harmony with what I've been saying all along, BKA. Personally, I'd take it a step farther and have this rainbow include ALL energy, not just yin chi.

 

As long as it has thousands of shades sure . I guess I'm just taking out a small slice of it for yin qi...

[Brian]

As long as it has thousands of shades sure . I guess I'm just taking out a small slice of it for yin qi...

 

Works for me -- the way "visible light" is often segmented out of the full electromagnetic spectrum. It'll probably not be practical to represent the "complete every spectrum" in just two dimensions, though, so we'll probably end up with multiple illustrations.

[BaguaKicksAss]

If you S-M folks think you have it bad..... You only have yin qi to debate with MPG.....

 

I practice magic as well, and MPG and I have had many long discussions on this . You can only imagine! Somehow we make it work though. I allow him to tell me (quite respectfully) that a lot of it is imagination; he allows me to (quite respectfully) tell him he should allow more possibilities in his reality. The discussions get extremely interesting and I think we both learn a lot (OK well I do anyways lol). Sure he's a little stuck on his viewpoints, but the insight into these matters that comes out of the words surrounding the the whole yin qi statements can be quite profound actually.

 

I just had to start this out with taking none of it personally, and not taking anything he thinks of my magic teacher personally. Then I had to move into, what perspectives does this person have to offer that I may not yet know about or have overlooked.

 

I know he thinks my energetic healing and spirit callings are BS, I'm fine with that, and we don't even debate that fact anymore. I also tried some MoPai experimentation to see what it's all about, there is definitely something to it, which sort of surprised me. On a side note, he is right about plastic and rubber blocking stuff to various differing degrees, but we all already knew that.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Works for me -- the way "visible light" is often segmented out of the full electromagnetic spectrum. It'll probably not be practical to represent the "complete every spectrum" in just two dimensions, though, so we'll probably end up with multiple illustrations.

 

Oh I'm definitely good in multiple dimensions and spectrums of this .

 

This is something I would definitely like to see MPG chime in on as well...

[Harmonious Emptiness]

A little about precedent...

 

Once upon a time, electricity was a mystery -- as was magnetism. It was clear that they were TOTALLY different.

 

Later it was discovered that there were two very different things called static electricity and dynamic electricity. Significantly different characteristics and obviously two different things. Until it was realized they were exactly the same thing, Only difference is frequency of vibration...

 

But light and electricity were clearly NOT the same thing because they in no way behaved the same. Until it was discovered that they are just different behaviors of the same thing. They found that light comes from vibrating electrons...

 

But light CLEARLY displayed particle-like behavior in some experiments and wave-like behavior in other experiments. Waves and particle projectiles are diametrically opposed propagation methods is OBVIOUSLY there were two kinds of light, or something. Until it was proven that it is the same thing. Turns out that the observer/experimenter has a lot to do with the manifestation -- look for particles and you find particles, look for waves and you find waves...

 

And it was also discovered that electricity and magnetism were exactly the same thing. Magnetism, they found, comes from the motion of electrons...

 

And it was realized that the heat radiating off a warm stove and visible light and radio waves and x-rays are all the same thing, despite tremendously different characteristics. Only difference is frequency of vibration...

 

So that left four fundamental forces known to physics -- electromagnetism, strong nuclear force, weak nuclear force (these two have a common naming convention but VASTLY different characteristics and therefore clearly different things), and gravity.

 

Oh, but wait. Turns out that electromagnetism and the two subatomic "nuclear" forces are all one thing, too...

 

Quantum electrodynamics and the current understanding of the opening seconds of this universe's existence require that all of these apparent forces and all of the resultant particles (meaning all matter and energy in the universe) MUST have been variations which appeared from the oneness which appeared from nothing or who-knows-what in the opening split-seconds of the universe. A lot like Taoism says...

 

Gravity? Yeah, we haven't quite figured that one out yet but all the indications are that it is another manifestation of the same common whatever-it-is into which electricity and magnetism and light and the nuclear forces have been shown to be.

 

Sooo...

 

Turns out that the history of science is FULL of intelligent people in lab coats pounding on desks and vehemently proclaiming that these forces/energies/particles/what-have-you MUST be unique and different because they obviously display very different qualities, properties and characteristics, as documented by the most rigorous scientific research possible (at that point in time).

 

Could that possibly be the case here? Some say yes, some say perhaps and some say:

 

 

 

 

 

EDIT: FWIW, this whole conductor, insulator, dirt, air thing is easily explained by scientific reasoning, too. (For those who are wondering, air is actually a conductor...)

 

 

EDIT2: Notice, please, that my commentary speaks from the viewpoint of the history of modern physics and NOT from the viewpoint of any system of energetic practice.

ExACTLy

[Brian]

Oh I'm definitely good in multiple dimensions and spectrums of this .

 

This is something I would definitely like to see MPG chime in on as well...

 

I would, like that, too, BKA.

 

I'd also like to hear how many hours a day MPG spends on cultivation as I think this is relevant in regards to one's personal "handle" on things energetic...

[Brian]

OK so I think, that as humans, on this planet working our paths, we only see part of the whole big picture (or at least the various Deities I work with like to remind me of this from time to time!) Soooo I figure yin qi is pretty damn big. I doubt even a level 72 person can perceive all of its aspects and full spectrum. So picture a rainbow put into photoshop, then the "greyscale" settings selected. (sorry too lazy to give the actual image of this). Now picture a little arrow towards one part of said rainbow with the words "MoPai spectrum of yin qi". Then picture another arrow towards another section and it saying "S-M yin qi". Next an arrow towards another section and it saying "some other system's yin qi". Then the last section and arrow "the yin qi humans can't even perceive". I'm using a grey rainbow here for the analogy of many shades of grey instead of just black and white.

 

BTW, BKA, if you read Ya Mu's blog post which sparked this latest outburst, he is very clear on the point of different "levels" of,earth energy. He plainly states that "surface energy" is all beginners manipulate (as a general rule) and that most systems never move on to the more energetic yin chi found deep in the earth -- much less the even more dense "core energy." It is all about vibrational energy, just as modern physics is realizing.

 

Personally, it was about a year AFTER I able to gather yin & yang chi and mix them in dantien and start to distinctly feel yin chi that I started to manipulate the energy found deep in the earth, and that was the result of Ya Mu standing beside me and showing me how, using his own energy to help open that door for me.