Yin chi number 3

[BaguaKicksAss]

In that, case you can have the Mo Pai Superpower Manual for half price Act now before this unique opportunity is lost (credit card only)!

 

Seriously though, I've already taken a peak around there, but I'm honestly here more for the Taoist side of things, since that's something I'm very new to and hoping to become greater acquainted with. I was originally going to make a post asking for advice on the best way to proceed, but thinking about it now it seems a bit too broad a scope. I've recently taken up Qi Gong again as part of my daily practice routine though, so I'm sure plenty of questions will arrive when I inevitably horrible mangle it trying to learn out of books.

 

Why thank you for the great half price opportunity Aeran!

 

I hope you find a good in person teacher for the Taoist side of things (I give that advice to everyone asking Taoist questions heh), as that can bring you so much further, more quickly. At least your esoteric background will help a lot. I also came from the more Western side of things, and more recently took up martial arts and other Taoist practices.

[Enishi]

I don't have any direct experience with the later stages of Bardon's system (give me another 5 or 10 years and I'll get back to ya), so for now I can't comment specifically on those energies, all I can say is that my experiences with the energies in the earlier steps (or at least those which have parallels in Taoist practices, namely the Vital Force) is that they are seemingly the same as those utilized in the Qi Gong I've practiced, and that the description of the Yin Chang in Mo Pai by Kosta is remarkably similar to that given of the Magnetic Fluid by Bardon. And I generally take an inclusive view of such things, but that's just me. Beyond that I can't say, and honestly, I'm not sure anyone can. Like I said earlier, we know too little about the definitive nature of the forces we're working with - maybe 100 years from now scientists will nail this stuff down and it will turn out that Chi is just another phlogiston.

 

The connection between the Electric/Magnetic Fluids and Yin/Yang is something I've been struggling to unravel for myself. According to IIH, the Electric Fluid comes from deep within the earth, while the Magnetic Fluid is on the surface of the earth.

 

During the workshop on Hilton Head Island last year I had a more tangible experience with pulling Yin up from the earth, and was shocked by how warm and heavy it felt. My intellectual understanding was that it would be the exact opposite. O.o Being a cerebral INTP left-brained type, it really threw me for a loop. I had assumed that Yin = Magnetic/Cold/Light and that Yang = Electric/Hot/Expansive, but now I'm not so sure.

 

I suspect that in many systems Yin/Yang are never used independantly, but rather in dynamic interaction with each other to varying degrees, and thus this is where seeming discrepancies can arise (also perceptions of hot/cold probably aren't the best guide for classification).

Edited November 30, 2013 by Enishi

[Aeran]

I hope you find a good in person teacher for the Taoist side of things (I give that advice to everyone asking Taoist questions heh), as that can bring you so much further, more quickly. At least your esoteric background will help a lot. I also came from the more Western side of things, and more recently took up martial arts and other Taoist practices.

 

Yeah first thing I did when I decided to look into it further was try find a teacher, but I'm in a smaller city in the asshole of the country (Adelaide :| ), and there don't appear to be any here. I might be spending some time in Melbourne in the coming months though, so if that ends up happening I'll definitely look around.

[Brian]

Nope. Wrong again on both counts. Not only do you clearly not understand electromagnetism (as evidenced by your assertion that the difference between colors is the same as the difference between gold & lead) but you also don't seem to have a solid grasp on the difference between AD & DC currents (which is rather amusing given the Tesla quote in your signature).

 

Ionization is not necessary nor are large voltages, currents or charges. Millivolt, microamp AC sources span air-gaps quite easily. Lossy? Who cares? If a person could tap into one-bazillionth of the total yin chi potential of the entire planet, that oughta be enough to light you up, right?

 

How good is your antenna???

 

Seriously, you should take this thread as a learning opportunity rather than trying to play "gotcha."

Edited December 1, 2013 by Brian

[BaguaKicksAss]

More_Pie_Guy, any chance that you put a really easy to read copy of this last post into your PPF? I don't mean take this one down, but a second copy? It's getting interesting, but so many quotes and spoilers... Or if you are worried about people giving you hell for it, feel free to put into *my* PPF...

[Green Tiger]

We are talking orders of magnitudes of difference here.

 

Think of filling a swimming pool with a 5 gallon bucket vs a 1ml pipette.

 

If you think you can fill a swimming pool one 1ml pipette at a time, go for it. I myself will use a 5 gallon bucket.

 

You have absolutely no way to measure how much or what kind of energy is being cultivated. All you have are varying cultivation techniques and an assumption that one is superior.

 

 

I am claiming the energy SM refers to as yin, and the energy MP refers to as yin cannot be the same energy by definition as their behaviors are antithetical to one another.

 

Antithetical? Different, maybe. Antithetical? No.

 

My perineum is in direct electrical contact with the ground during meditation.

 

So, you're not wearing pants and you've got your perineum pressed against the ground. Gotcha. And you're saying that you're certain we are not cultivating the same energy because we are wearing pants and our perineum is not touching the ground?

[BaguaKicksAss]

*must resist posting the naked taichi video, must resist....*

[h.uriahr]

If you were to drive a 50 ft long cable into the ground and sat on it would it enhance your yin intake?

[dawei]

To improve readability everyone get's their own thread in an offsite forum.

 

I would have used my own PPF, but I couldn't be given permission to do this without it being called spam. I would rather not risk it.

 

It is not possible to join this forum and reply to threads, this exists as an archive only.

 

You are welcome to copy and paste my replies back into the debate here if you wish.

 

 

 

As a courtesy to members, you ought to ask them if they will agree that you spam their posts to another board which they have never posted on. I for one would not agree to you moving my posts at TTB to another forum like you have done.

[Green Tiger]

Oh, you are wearing pants. So you're sure yin chi can get through your pants, but not 30,000 feet of atmo.

 

What about a blanket? What about a meditation cushion filled with buckwheat hulls? What is the threshold of conductivity?

[Green Tiger]

Oh, I see. Yes, that makes much more sense. You're feeding a grounding wire inside your pants and it is directly touching your perineum. That is hard core.

 

Did JC meditate that way, or did he just take his pants off? If you didn't have a grounding wire handy, would you have to take your pants off to meditate?

 

How many hours per day is it recommended you sit like that?

[Thunder_Gooch]

To improve readability everyone get's their own thread in an offsite forum.

 

I would have used my own PPF, but I couldn't be given permission to do this without it being called spam. I would rather not risk it.

 

It is not possible to join this forum and reply to threads, this exists as an archive only.

 

You are welcome to copy and paste my replies back into the debate here if you wish.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Xor

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=1

 

 

 

 

BaguaKicksAss

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=2

 

 

 

 

 

Harmonious Emptiness

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=4

 

 

 

 

 

Green Tiger

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=5

 

 

 

 

 

 

JohnC

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=6

 

 

 

 

Brian

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=7

 

 

 

 

thamosh

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=8

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mal Stainkey

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=9

 

 

 

 

 

tongkosong

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=10

 

 

 

gramp

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=11

 

 

 

 

SonOfTheGods

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=12

 

 

 

 

Jox

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=13

 

 

 

 

 

Vitalii

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=14

 

 

 

dawei

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=15

 

 

 

 

 

 

h.uriahr

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=16

 

 

 

 

 

surfingbudda

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=17

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Aeran

http://z13.invisionfree.com/mopai_debate/index.php?showtopic=18

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

_________________________

 

 

 

 

As a courtesy to members, you ought to ask them if they will agree that you spam their posts to another board which they have never posted on. I for one would not agree to you moving my posts at TTB to another forum like you have done.

 

I don't really care what you think dawei, and I don't really care what any of the rest of the SM crew thinks either.

 

I can't be given permission to use my PPF forum for this purpose without the spam rule applying.

 

I can't reply in thread because you and your crew screams spam, and complains till new rules are made.

 

You guys scream bloody murder every other sentence about harassment, and personal attacks, and whatever else you can to get moderators to intervene.

 

You complain when I combine posts, you complain when I create forum so they are more readable, you'd complain under any circumstance you could complain under just for the sake of complaining.

 

All because I point out an obvious truth, what SM and MP are calling yin chi cannot be the same energy as they exhibit completely opposite behaviors and mechanics.

 

So no I don't care you or anyone else here thinks about it.

 

Have a great day!

 

 

 

_________________________

 

 

 

 

 

Nope. Wrong again on both counts.Not only do you clearly not understand electromagnetism (as evidenced by your assertion that the difference between colors is the same as the difference between gold & lead) but you also don't seem to have a solid grasp on the difference between AD & DC currents (which is rather amusing given the Tesla quote in your signature).

 

Ionization is not necessary nor are large voltages, currents or charges. Millivolt, microamp AC sources span air-gaps quite easily. Lossy? Who cares? If a person could tap into one-bazillionth of the total yin chi potential of the entire planet, that oughta be enough to light you up, right?

 

How good is your antenna???

 

Seriously, you should take this thread as a learning opportunity rather than trying to play "gotcha."

My reply:

 

 

Gotcha.

 

I assume you mean AC and DC?

 

 

 

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_arc

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

An electric arc, or arc discharge, is an electrical breakdown of a gas that produces an ongoing plasma discharge, resulting from a current through normally nonconductive media such as air.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_breakdown

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Electrical breakdown or dielectric breakdown refers to a rapid reduction in the resistance of an electrical insulator when the voltage applied across it exceeds the breakdown voltage. This results in a portion of the insulator becoming electrically conductive.

 

 

Although air is normally an excellent insulator, when stressed by a sufficiently high voltage (an electric field strength of about 3 x 106V/m[1]), air can begin to break down, becoming partially conductive. If the voltage is sufficiently high, complete electrical breakdown of the air will culminate in an electrostatic discharge or Electric arc that bridges the entire gap. While the small sparks generated by static electricity may barely be audible, larger sparks are often accompanied by a loud snap or bang. Lightning is an example of an immense spark that can be many miles long. The color of the spark depends upon the gases that make up the gaseous media.

http://science.howstuffworks.com/nature/natural-disasters/lightning2.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The following description is also exactly what occurs when operating a Van de Graaff generator.

 

 

The strong electric field causes the air around the cloud to "break down," allowing current to flow in an attempt to neutralize the charge separation. Simply stated, the air breakdown creates a path that short-circuits the cloud/earth as if there were a long metal rod connecting the cloud to the earth. Here's how this breakdown works.

 

When the electric field becomes very strong (on the order of tens of thousands of volts per inch), conditions are ripe for the air to begin breaking down. The electric field causes the surrounding air to become separated into positive ions and electrons -- the air is ionized. Keep in mind that the ionization does not mean that there is more negative charge (electrons) or more positive charge (positive atomic nuclei / positive ions) than before. This ionization only means that the electrons and positive ions are farther apart than they were in their original molecular or atomic structure. Essentially, the electrons have been stripped from the molecular structure of the non-ionized air.

 

The importance of this separation/stripping is that the electrons are now free to move much more easily than they could before the separation. So this ionized air (also known as plasma) is much more conductive than the previous non-ionized air. Incidentally, the ability or freedom of the electrons to move is what makes any material a good conductor of electricity. Often times, metals are referred to as positive atomic nuclei surrounded by a fluid-like cloud of electrons. That makes many metals good conductors of electricity.

 

These electrons have excellent mobility, allowing for electrical current to flow. The ionization of air or gas creates plasma with conductive properties similar to that of metals. Plasma is the tool nature wields to neutralize charge separation in an electric field. Those readers who are familiar with the chemical reaction of fire will recall that oxidation plays an important role. Oxidation is the process by which an atom or molecule loses an electron when combined with oxygen. Simply put, the atom or molecule is changed from a lower positive potential to a higher positive potential. Interestingly enough, the process of ionization, which creates plasma, also occurs through the loss of electrons. By this comparison, we can view the ionization process as "burning a path" through the air for the lightning to follow, much like digging a tunnel through a mountain for a train to follow.

 

After the ionization process, the path between the cloud and the earth begins to form. Learn about step leaders, or paths of ionized air, next.

 

 

 

 

_________________________

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you were to drive a 50 ft long cable into the ground and sat on it would it enhance your yin intake?

 

 

I would think the more surface area that makes contact with the earth, and the thicker the metal object the more yin chi could be absorbed, but remember you only gain as much yin chi as you bring in yang, so the rate at which you bring in yang will be your bottleneck in this situation. Assuming you had the ability to suck in vast amounts of yang energy very quickly via some technology you would need to have tons of grounding wires to compensate so as not to be bottlenecked by the lack of yin chi flow.

 

 

 

_________________________

 

 

 

 

 

Did JC meditate that way, or did he just take his pants off?

 

I don't know to be honest though I would assume you would want the best connection to the ground you could have.

 

The grounding wire suggestion sounds absolutely absurd, I agree but it was an actual suggestion given to his students if they couldn't sit out in the dirt.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

If you didn't have a grounding wire handy, would you have to take your pants off to meditate?

 

I would think you'd want the best connection to the ground you could get. I find the grounding wire works well for me though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

How many hours per day is it recommended you sit like that?

 

As many as you can.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[BaguaKicksAss]

 

 

[Green Tiger]

Thanks for all the prompt responses, MPG. I think I have a much clearer idea about how our practices differ now.

[Pai_Mei]

I respect More Pie Guy as a person with strong conviction and opinion, however, I feel he needs to stop posting his opinions as having the final authority of Mopai or John Chang. I am not agreeing or disagreeing with his opinions, but feel that unless a person was instructed by the headmaster of the Mopai school or John Chang, one should not say that the opinion posted is the view and teachings of Mopai. To form an opinion that carries the weight of a school is a heavy burden and you have to have the authority from the master of the school. To compare and put down an opinion made by another school, you have to be a level of a master of your system with full knowledge and understanding of your school and its teachings. I understand that the internet is a forum of free exchange of ideas, but, if it is your own ideas, I have no problem with whatever you say. If you attach your opinion to a system or a school, then it is different. Due to the fiasco from Jim and others, John Chang and the current headmaster wish to get away from the "limelight" and to avoid further controversies, they wished to be left alone. I hope this clears up any misunderstandings.

What we should point out here really quick is and I say this without attacking you personally thunder_gooch is that any decent Neigong practitioner is also part of a cosmic brotherhood which consists not only of your living teachers but also your teachers on a higher level. Some people here react in a hostile way towards you as they are very familiar with this unspoken code of conduct that is a serious fact for anyone with a true tie to a lineage. A good student would never attack a lineage holder from another school (in this case Ya Mu) in the way you do and this is not about ego or politics, this is about being part of a traditon and being a man of cultivation. So respect your elder tongkosong here, please. Otherwise you are seriously messing up your Karma. So take care brother! PS: I suggest working on your liver-qi

[Thunder_Gooch]

What we should point out here really quick is and I say this without attacking you personally thunder_gooch is that any decent Neigong practitioner is also part of a cosmic brotherhood which consists not only of your living teachers but also your teachers on a higher level. Some people here react in a hostile way towards you as they are very familiar with this unspoken code of conduct that is a serious fact for anyone with a true tie to a lineage. A good student would never attack a lineage holder from another school (in this case Ya Mu) in the way you do and this is not about ego or politics, this is about being part of a traditon and being a man of cultivation. So respect your elder tongkosong here, please. Otherwise you are seriously messing up your Karma. So take care brother! PS: I suggest working on your liver-qi

No thanks on any of your advice.

[Aeran]

Really?

[Thunder_Gooch]

Really?

Yes really.

[Aeran]

I was referring more to the bumping of this thread than your comment, tbh.

[Thunder_Gooch]

I was referring more to the bumping of this thread than your comment, tbh.

Trolls go back and rekindle old threads just cause.

[Pai_Mei]

Actually I was not trying to be a troll. What I wanted to do was to take that quote from this thread and move it to another thread (where I consider this comment to be more appropriate) but I seem to have hit the wrong button. So my comment was not meant for this thread but for another. Anyway, I said what I had to say and I am now done with it. Please keep going

[Thunder_Gooch]

Actually I was not trying to be a troll.

 

..............

 

 

Please keep going

 

 

[Pai_Mei]

Being compared to Yoda is always a nice compliment But: shouldn't I be more of a Sith Lord if I am a troll? Anyway...keep going.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Anyway...keep going.

 

Edited March 2, 2014 by Thunder_Gooch

[BaguaKicksAss]

OK, who re-started *this* thread that I was hoping would vanish as a long forgotten memory? Cause you know, splitting it off into FOUR threads in total to manage it was just so much fun! *grumble*