suffering

[silent thunder]

Suffering is a crisis of perception.

 

It's not real.

 

[chegg]

Suffering is a crisis of perception.

 

It's not real.

 

 

 

Does that suffering include electrocution, torture, back pain i.e., physical types of pain ?

 

I know of people that can block this pain and experience no suffering but not for their entire lives such as cases of chronic back pain.

Edited November 26, 2013 by chegg

[BaguaKicksAss]

Even chronic pain with an obvious physical cause, can suddenly vanish.

 

I still get the affects of the endorphins though if the "pain" gets really bad. But it no longer hurts.

 

I did a medical qigong meditation one day and it all vanished.

 

So I believe that yes, even that kind of suffering.

 

Though on the otherhand it is difficult for me to say suffering is not real, as I have seen people suffering, and I can feel their anguish... Depression seems to be the worst one (which chronic pain can easily lead to). Also chronic pain which is decades long and severe. Just because things worked out for me, I can't in good conscious go telling someone "hey that's not real". (though I can tell them, "here check this out").

 

Some middle of the night ramblings .

[C T]

Pain without mental anguish is not suffering.

 

Sadness without emotional aversive responses is not suffering.

 

Ditto for all the rest of the psychological/emotional inner upheavals.

 

Suffering is caused mainly from thinking that these states are somehow permanent. And also, that there is a permanent, locatable self where such states can manifest.

 

As a result of such misapprehended thoughts, one is removed from the centre, from seeing things as they are, the dualistic modes of aversion/clinging come into play, resulting in various other thoughts and actions, each permeating the other, colouring every other subsequent thought, every action, which will then naturally develop its own energetic pattern that will power itself to its own conclusion, which in turn will lead to further pathological thoughts followed by actions and emotional responses, and so on and so forth. Karma works like that.

 

Such kinds of habitual thought patterns and responses can be reversed.

 

Mindfulness training is the first step.

 

As for the opening statements, well, its true to a degree to say that suffering is not real. In Buddhism, there is suffering, but there is no permanent being where this suffering can go on without change at some point.

 

Eternal flux... But this does not mean all suffering is an illusion because on relative levels, it is very much a part of the ebbs and flows of existence.

 

We should try to develop the inner motivation to create more causes of happiness for others.

 

 

my 2 rupees.

Edited November 26, 2013 by C T

[Stosh]

suf·fer·ing

ˈsəf(ə)riNG/

noun

noun: suffering; plural noun: sufferings

1. 1.

   the state of undergoing pain, distress, or hardship.

 

 

Suffering is an intimate downside of experience and while it is perceptual, its just as real as objective reality. I dont know how long it takes to overcome back pain with qigong but I figure it wasnt on day one. For everyone else ,the best they can do is mitigate their emotional response to physical causes of suffering.

Maybe that qigong can remove the suffering of starvation , loves lost , confusion and disappointment , and its great to the degree that it may , but not everyone is a Master at it and so they dont have that succour.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Stosh

[silent thunder]

recognition

acceptance

and liberation

are simultaneous...

Edited November 26, 2013 by silent thunder

[RiverSnake]

An excellent and very thorough video of this topic:

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited November 26, 2013 by OldChi

[Stosh]

The vid has some fair points but its making the assumption that the external doesnt have power to impose upon with impact the internal state of emotional suffering , as with pain though, recognition acceptance etc may work for emotional distress sometimes.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Stosh

[BaguaKicksAss]

To be devil's advocate to my last post (lol), how is it that me as a young child could have level 8-9 pains on a regular basis and that be just an illusion? Too bad I didn't start Bagua back then, heh.

[chegg]

To be devil's advocate to my last post (lol), how is it that me as a young child could have level 8-9 pains on a regular basis and that be just an illusion? Too bad I didn't start Bagua back then, heh.

 

 

Or to quote that protester in the lecture theater........"Don't taze me bro'"

 

If only he did Bagua before hand

 

 

 

Blessings :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

[h.uriahr]

Suffering is good. Those who endure are strengthened. It's sometimes hard to see in the midst of the storm but once it breaks then there lies the clarity. Although I do agree that suffering is only as real as you make it I don't argue that point with just anybody.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Suffering is good. Those who endure are strengthened. It's sometimes hard to see in the midst of the storm but once it breaks then there lies the clarity. Although I do agree that suffering is only as real as you make it I don't argue that point with just anybody.

 

I would agree about it strengthening people.... if they can get past it that is. I see some who don't get past it, and that is very unfortunate . I do like to offer to help out if I can though.

 

Interesting to note is that my Sifu and I were talking, and he said that of the people he has helped heal (really the patient does a huge part of the work) from major illnesses, they have told him that they are grateful for the disease and suffering now that they looked back. This is pretty amazing coming from people on death's door due to cancer. They in general said that it helped them change their lives though.

 

I'd have to admit that I agree. If I had not suffered in the way I did, nearly died a few times and etc. I would have had a VERY different life. In many ways I now live the life that I would never have dreamed I could, which is pretty awesome. However if everything had been all perfect and cozy, I'd be working some job I hate, have never traveled, never started Bagua, never learned medical qigong, never met my Sifu, never found these forums.....

 

Sooo all that said, if suffering is an illusion, but most obviously you can look and see that people are indeed suffering greatly (spend a week in a hospital sometime and look at the various in the high level care units).... how do they move past that? How would one help them move past that? Or, I also volunteered at the local asylum, where I saw much suffering (and some who didn't care, which was much better), how would those folks move past this illusion? There is of course the western medicine approach of fill them full of pills (works for a few), but that just doesn't seem to be the answer...

[h.uriahr]

The human condition is temporary. I'm not sure how to awaken the inner fire in others but if one can simply realize that this body-vehicle-vessel is a temporary one that is in a constant state of decay then maybe that can break the physical suffering? What matters is building up the internal driver not the car

 

Overcoming is the Victory. I wouldn't take back the suffering, although self inflicted, for anything.

 

 

[chegg]

Suffering is good. Those who endure are strengthened. It's sometimes hard to see in the midst of the storm but once it breaks then there lies the clarity. Although I do agree that suffering is only as real as you make it I don't argue that point with just anybody.

 

Agreed on one point, when I go to the healing church and see people collapse on the floor and crying their eyes out because they only have weeks to live, the last thing I would argue with them is the point that "Suffering is good" or "suffering is a crisis of perception"

Edited November 27, 2013 by chegg

[Brian]

Suffering is.

 

It is just as much a part of nature as birth and death, laughter and sorrow, and pleasure.

 

Some people wallow in it, some brace against it, some relax into it and let it flow over them, most do some combination plus more.

 

Some people find life presents them with more suffering experiences than other people. Some people seem to seek it out while others have it thrust upon them.

 

Life is like that.

 

Wait... What was the question?

[h.uriahr]

Agreed on one point, when I go to the healing church and see people collapse on the floor and crying their eyes out because they only have weeks to live, the last thing I would argue with them is the point that "Suffering is good" or "suffering is a crisis of perception"

 

I don't want to sound insensitive but it sounds like maybe those people have some issues that need worked out because they should heal that illness OR be on terms with the Graduation. I've never had an experience of an illness telling me how long I have to live but I have had the 'pleasure' of looking down at the business end of a 12 gauge and fear was the one thing that didn't enter my mind. So from my experience and my experience only, once you realize the Freedom of death then True Living can take place. Well accepting Christ is the Foremost Important thing and then realizing death is a Graduation IME

[h.uriahr]

Agreed on one point, when I go to the healing church and see people collapse on the floor and crying their eyes out because they only have weeks to live, the last thing I would argue with them is the point that "Suffering is good" or "suffering is a crisis of perception"

 

OH BUT ALSO no I would not argue that with them. There is a time and place for everything and Love and Positive Support would fit that bill. I would encourage them though to overcome and not give up.

[runner11]

Suffering is good. Those who endure are strengthened. It's sometimes hard to see in the midst of the storm but once it breaks then there lies the clarity. Although I do agree that suffering is only as real as you make it I don't argue that point with just anybody.

 

I agree about it strengthening and bringing clarity. I know running brings a superficial suffering, but I think it still brings strength and clarity. I wish I've found another form of temporary physical suffering that doesn't zap so much energy. I've tried all different kinds of meditation, but its not the same. I feel like I need that physical suffering sometimes.

[C T]

Is it possible to be happy all the time?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjJUF5ivzS4

Edited November 27, 2013 by C T

[Z3N]

Ultimately suffering does not exist outside of the physical organism and its psychological contents, therefore it only exists within the “self”.

 

When consciousness dwells on the “self” it naturally smashes the ultimate truth of the universe into Trillion’s of tiny little pieces hence duality, separation and even the very notion of loss and so forth.

 

Attachments to these tiny pieces leads to suffering and illusion within consciousness lacking insight and spiritual awareness, this is not ultimately the way of the universe.

Edited November 27, 2013 by Z3N