Chen Zhonghua on sung and peng

[Taomeow]

[No Cause]

Interesting, do you study with Mr. Chen?

[Taomeow]

Interesting, do you study with Mr. Chen?

 

No, but my teacher studied with him and his brothers.

[ChiDragon]

Let Nature take its course.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

I don't know what the hell he is talking about.

 

[ChiDragon]

Let Nature take its course.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[PLB]

ChiDragon,

When you say: "I don't know what the hell he is talking about." I sense that there is a point of departure for you that you are not disclosing.

Most of what Chen Zhongua says has been told to me by all of my various Tai Chi Chuan instructors.

What point of contention has you all lit up?

PLB

[ChiDragon]

Let Nature take its course.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

[xor]

[Taomeow]

 

Here he is pushing 8 of my taiji classmates at a workshop. Everybody flies!

[baiqi]

Peng(掤) is a defensive posture using the right or left hand in the process.

I disagree with that one, although many taiji teachers do present it that way.

 

Rather, it is a warding-off energy (and the physical movement with it) that can be as offensive as defensive.

 

It's the idea of "making a ball" that expands. Well, it is actually hard to explain just with words, but a physical demonstration is easier.

 

The link with song? Well, in taiji you need to be "song", whatever you do...

 

Some teachers will say "peng" exists within any technique, and I agree with them.

Edited December 7, 2013 by baiqi

[Vitalii]

 

Here he is pushing 8 of my taiji classmates at a workshop. Everybody flies!

 

I can do it too

 

Basic exercise: a practitioner stands in "gong bu", and other people push him; if a practitioner does everything right, they won't be able to move him.

 

To make it more difficult, the practitioner from "gong bu" position should transfer the weight on the back foot (santi), or stand on one foot only, and other people push him.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Vitalii

[ChiDragon]

Let Nature take its course.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

I can do it too

 

Basic exercise: a practitioner stands in "gong bu", and other people push him; if a practitioner does everything right, they won't be able to move him.

 

To make it more difficult, the practitioner from "gong bu" position should transfer the weight on the back foot (santi), or stand on one foot only, and other people push him.

 

Good on you! You're right, it's quite doable once you know what you're doing. I've seen a whole train of people pushed like that (but if someone posts it on youtube, the "theorists" provide ample comments along the lines of, "fake!" Actually the theorists would be unable to tell whether it's fake or not. Easy to fake, this is, if anyone is interested in faking it instead of really making it in taiji. I went for a pic from my own archives because I could testify under oath that, to the best of my knowledge, my classmates did not conspire with the visiting master to fake it.) I've even seen this (in real life) done on one leg and with a large, full to the brim glass of whisky in one hand, which never spilled except into the master's gullet, little by little.

 

In theory, any amount of force can be transferred into the ground and back at the pushing party. So this spiral that goes down, below your center of gravity, and back up from the back foot to the front and into the hands, it's like a spring, the harder you compress it, the stronger it will decompress back into its original shape. And this original shape, a function of impeccable structure in four dimensions and thirteen directions, is peng.

[ChiDragon]

Let Nature take its course.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[Taomeow]

.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Taomeow

[Taomeow]

If it is a fake, a knowledgeable practitioner should be able to sense it right away like oneself was doing it. If the observer was not able to tell it is a fake or not, then I would question how much practice does the observer have? Hence, I have to assume that the observer have not practiced enough to a level to tell how much jin(勁) does the performer has.

[xor]

Ra looks pretty relaxed while beating apep in there!

[mYTHmAKER]

 

Here he is pushing 8 of my taiji classmates at a workshop. Everybody flies!

It is not fake. He is well grounded. If you blow up the photo you will see how disconnected the people who are pushing him are.

For instance the third, fourth and fifth are doing nothing and it gets worse from there. No focus, no intention, looking off to the side to see what is happening.

The first guy is leaning a little too much - off his center. Chen Zhongua releases a little the first guy falls in and Chen Zhongua shifts forward and they go flying.

[Taomeow]

It is not fake. He is well grounded. If you blow up the photo you will see how disconnected the people who are pushing him are.

For instance the third, fourth and fifth are doing nothing and it gets worse from there. No focus, no intention, looking off to the side to see what is happening.

The first guy is leaning a little too much - off his center. Chen Zhongua releases a little the first guy falls in and Chen Zhongua shifts forward and they go flying.

Pretty good analysis. These are all people with very modest taiji experience, the picture is from ten years ago. Some remained at this "perennial beginner" level, but not all. The first guy in particular has grown very considerably in his taiji, and keeps growing. His current form is a pleasure to behold -- soft and precise, with all its power hidden well away. He also has a taiji personality, yielding without weakness. Really good tao.

[mYTHmAKER]

Pretty good analysis. These are all people with very modest taiji experience, the picture is from ten years ago. Some remained at this "perennial beginner" level, but not all. The first guy in particular has grown very considerably in his taiji, and keeps growing. His current form is a pleasure to behold -- soft and precise, with all its power hidden well away. He also has a taiji personality, yielding without weakness. Really good tao.

You'll notice I didn't mention the second guy. IMHO his alignment is good - he should have been in front.

Wouldn't have stopped them from flying

[Taomeow]

You'll notice I didn't mention the second guy. IMHO his alignment is good - he should have been in front.

Wouldn't have stopped them from flying

 

No, it wouldn't.

The second guy could stand opening the qua and the knee some more. This would peng out the left (? closer to the observer) leg. The ankle-knee axis is thrust forward instead of spiraling toward the back, and too straight -- the twisting power that goes into the ground like a screw is not there.

[ChiDragon]

Let Nature take its course.

Edited December 9, 2013 by ChiDragon

[mYTHmAKER]

No, it wouldn't.

The second guy could stand opening the qua and the knee some more. This would peng out the left (? closer to the observer) leg. The ankle-knee axis is thrust forward instead of spiraling toward the back, and too straight -- the twisting power that goes into the ground like a screw is not there.

The second guy is more in a Wu style stance.