Compassion

[BaguaKicksAss]

 

 

In Japan His Holiness related the story of a Tibetan monk he knows who was imprisoned in a Chinese gulag labor camp for 18 years, then released and came to India in the 80s. He told His Holiness that he’d been in danger several times during his imprisonment. His Holiness thought this meant a threat to his life. But he clarified that on several occasions he’d been in danger of losing compassion for those who confined him and treated him harshly. Throughout this time his mind remained calm, a real example of spiritual practice. Well into his nineties he continues to live peacefully as a monk.

 

(btw, thanks to Michael Saso for finding this one).

[Marblehead]

Well, yeah, but I doubt I could ever find that much compassion.

[Brian]

Master Wang Juemin's story is similar. Thanks for sharing, BKA!

[Rara]

I was pondering the other day. Is it really possible to just not flip out when under relentless torture?

 

I've tried practicing tolerance and compassion for everyone and really, all that does is make me a bit of a walk-over right?

 

Is there not a moment when we just have to go ape on someone because they are just p***ing us off?!

 

(Yeah, my definition of torture is having somebody talk at me for hours on end about their opinions in the world and politics. This week, here in England, according to one source, most of our problems stem from Eastern Europeans coming over and either bumming off the state or earning money and sending it back home/not paying taxes. Lol)

 

Sorry about that rant. But yes, even in more drastic circumstances of actual torture, capture etc. Is compassion really all that important? Why not just wind up the prison guard to the point where he shoots ya? Go out with a bang, as they say. That would be more liberating imo.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Rara

[BaguaKicksAss]

I was pondering the other day. Is it really possible to just not flip out when under relentless torture?

 

I've tried practicing tolerance and compassion for everyone and really, all that does is make someone a bit of a walk-over right?

 

Is there not a moment when we just have to go ape on someone because they are just p***ing us off?!

 

I personally don't see the two as mutually exclusive. I can have compassion for the conmen (and women) downtown, but still not be naive enough to hand them money or get into a conversation with them. Or in a fight, I can have compassion for the person because they were likely beaten many times and harshly in their life, yet at the same time still do what is needed to protect myself, as I have compassion for myself as well.

 

I can also have love for someone, but still have knowledge of whether their actions are healthy for me or not. I can love you while setting my boundaries sort of thing.

[gatito]

I was pondering the other day. Is it really possible to just not flip out when under relentless torture?

 

I've tried practicing tolerance and compassion for everyone and really, all that does is make someone a bit of a walk-over right?

 

Is there not a moment when we just have to go ape on someone because they are just p***ing us off?!

 

There are certainly some circumstances in life where the compassionate response might be considered violent, although, is going ape**** being compassionate?

Edited November 29, 2013 by gatito

[BaguaKicksAss]

On a side note, I'm soooo not there; the whole compassion for someone torturing me sort of level. Does this come before or after I plot their demise? Perhaps one day. Though the fact that someone can be that open and dedicated to their path as the Dalai Lama's friend just amazes me.

[Rara]

@BKA Yeah I see. That whole pray for your enemies type of thing...

 

@gatito...well, maybe not. But some of the drivel and nonsense I have to endure haha...

 

No I do understand. I'm in a silly mood today, so ignore me if I start popping bad jokes.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think that being a "walk-over" would be being stuck in the ego, self doubts, low self esteem, getting caught up in the situation, etc. We are all working on this, or the opposite of being too closed and harsh.

[gatito]

Yes, being compassionate is being impersonal (ie fair to all parties, including ourselves - or another way of putting it is being "loving")

[Marblehead]

I clicked that I like the post but I must add this:

Why not just wind up the prison guard to the point where he shoots ya? Go out with a bang, as they say. That would be more liberating imo.

 

Never going to happen here. I will fight to the end. Escape if possible. Then I will get revenge. I don't need to be liberated, I am already free. Take away my freedom and I get peed off.

 

 

Edit to add:

 

Yeah, I know, there was nothing about compassion in that post. The concept just didn't fit.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Marblehead

[gatito]

I clicked that I like the post but I must add this:

 

Never going to happen here. I will fight to the end. Escape if possible. Then I will get revenge. I don't need to be liberated, I am already free. Take away my freedom and I get peed off.

 

 

Edit to add:

 

Yeah, I know, there was nothing about compassion in that post. The concept just didn't fit.

 

Actually, it was a compassionate response up until the point where revenge muddied the waters

[Rara]

Actually, it was a compassionate response up until the point where revenge muddied the waters

 

MH's next life will simply be a ghost coming back to haunt anyone that has taken his freedom in this lifetime. Watch out congress!

[Marblehead]

Actually, it was a compassionate response up until the point where revenge muddied the waters

Yeah. I apologize for the revenge thing. My Army training. Continue the mission.

[gatito]

Yeah. I apologize for the revenge thing. My Army training. Continue the mission.

 

That's a strange kind of military training, allowing emotional entanglements to compromise the mission objective (i.e freedom) .

 

In other words, where's the freedom in escaping to freedom and stil being tied to your captor(s) by emotional needs for revenge?

[BaguaKicksAss]

MH's next life will simply be a ghost coming back to haunt anyone that has taken his freedom in this lifetime. Watch out congress!

 

Or come back *as* congress .

[Stosh]

 

Compassion, does it feel good for the compassionate? Anger , does it feel good for the angered?Which feels better?The choice of compassion over anger or fear, is it determined by circumstance?Is it based on judgement?Is compassion felt an act of embrace?Yall can answer them any way you see fit. But I'd say it is at least possible that the monk in the story , if told accurately ..took the emotional avenue he felt was best for his emotional well being, that to have been pushed by another away from what he believed himself to be,, to abandon that which held in highest esteem ,, would merely debase his situation further. He preferred that though his body could be chained , his mind was free.

Compassion, does it feel good for the compassionate? Anger , does it feel good for the angered?Which feels better?The choice of compassion over anger or fear, is it determined by circumstance?Is it based on judgement?Is compassion felt an act of embrace?Yall can answer them any way you see fit. But I'd say it is at least possible that the monk in the story , if told accurately ..took the emotional avenue he felt was best for his emotional well being, that to have been pushed by another away from what he believed himself to be,, to abandon that which held in highest esteem ,, would merely debase his situation further. He preferred that though his body could be chained , his mind was free.

Edited November 29, 2013 by Stosh

[Rara]

Or come back *as* congress .

 

Yes! Now THAT right there is Karma

[BaguaKicksAss]

I know, I must have trolled many forums in my past life...

 

JOKING!

[Stosh]

Jokes are a delicate balance of truth and falsity. Hmmmmmnn

[Marblehead]

That's a strange kind of military training, allowing emotional entanglements to compromise the mission objective (i.e freedom) .

 

In other words, where's the freedom in escaping to freedom and stil being tied to your captor(s) by emotional needs for revenge?

You have misread my lack of emotion into the appearance of emotion. Overcoming the enemy has nothing to do with emotions. In fact, if emotions were involved you would go home because the soldier on the other side is doing nothing more than you are doing - what your country wants you to do.

 

There can never be emotions in war if you wish to survive.

 

You are not tied to your captors, you are tied to your mission. The captors must be destroyed and the rest of the captives freed. No man left behind. As I was able to escape it would be reasonable that I be with the unit that attempt to free the rest of the captives as I know where the place is. I was there.

 

Again, no emotions during the mission. Those can come later, after success or failure.

[de_paradise]

The monk or lamas story is a good example of compassion, or rather equanimity, because if he were to have gotten upset or fallen into self-pity, it would not have done any good. The Chinese invasion still would continue, the decision was over his head. It's not as though he would have "taught" the Chinese soldiers anything, or taught the other monks anything by getting angry etc. The overwhelming force of the "country karma" is apparent here.

 

Another example of even more extreme compassion is a boddhisattva cutting off a limb to feed a starving animal, and that being as inconsequential as a leaf falling off a tree. Here we can see the boddhisattva feeling the pain of the animal, but having so much control over one's mind, that the self is not the body, and the animal is not felt as seperate from the boddhisattva's point of view.

 

Some people have no control over their mind, they have no particular insight into the interconnectedness of all things, yet they act like doormats and think that they are being compassionate and gaining karma, for example to let the bully spouse win a fight. That is not true because karma has several parts, and intent is a big part. So if the intent was not really compassion or equanimity, but merely the intent to avoid upsetting the other, or fearful that they would get abandoned or lose favor. Therefore you must look deep into your own mind to see the real intent, you must see your complexes and early childhood programs as they affect you on a deep, extremely hard to notice level. You can google "spiritual bypass" for more on this topic.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Marblehead, so...

 

Where do you put your emotions? Does this topic come up in bootcamp?

 

Is there a box where they tell you to "drop in your emotions"?

So you can go back into later, to recover your sense of humanity?

 

They train them (as well as individual thinking) out of the new recruits if they can (from what folks I know experienced in training). This is good and bad I guess, if it were a real war, wouldn't want someone making a stupid decision and getting the entire crew killed off. However with all these BS wars, a lot of innocent civilians are dying too . IMO.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Another example of even more extreme compassion is a boddhisattva cutting off a limb to feed a starving animal, and that being as inconsequential as a leaf falling off a tree. Here we can see the boddhisattva feeling the pain of the animal, but having so much control over one's mind, that the self is not the body, and the animal is not felt as seperate from the boddhisattva's point of view.

 

In the current modern western society such a person would be locked up in an asylum for such actions...

[Stosh]

Ummm anyplace anywhere you'd lock them up and with good reason! That is not admirable virtue its unnatural self destruction Imo one mightas well cut off their head to grow roses.

Any socialization process aims at increasing the individuals dedication to the society- group which includes family kindergarten religious organizations as well as military and each presents roles to individuals that do vary in strictness but all demand sacrifice by the individual of their personal interest.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Stosh