Compassion

[Marblehead]

Marblehead, so...

 

Where do you put your emotions? Does this topic come up in bootcamp?

 

Is there a box where they tell you to "drop in your emotions"?

So you can go back into later, to recover your sense of humanity?

No, the Army, at least back when I served, had nothing to say about emotions. They spoke strongly of accomplishing the mission. That is all. If a person needed some emotional guidance they could go see the Chaplain.

 

There is no sense of humanity in war. This is why so many veterians have such a hard time readjusting after they have served in combat. They had to do things against humanity.

 

I will here repeat a warrior's code I have previously posted:

 

"I will help you if I can, I will kill you if I must."

 

This is not about compassion, it is about humanity - being humane.

 

In one case you help a child who is in danger and in another case you blow the child away because she has explosives in a backpack and she is walking directly toward your location. (Yes, the Viet Cong did that.)

 

To try to reationalize compassion into war is rediculous. Compassion should have been used in order to prevent the war.

[Marblehead]

The monk or lamas story is a good example of compassion, or rather equanimity, because if he were to have gotten upset or fallen into self-pity, it would not have done any good. The Chinese invasion still would continue, the decision was over his head. It's not as though he would have "taught" the Chinese soldiers anything, or taught the other monks anything by getting angry etc. The overwhelming force of the "country karma" is apparent here.

The Jews felt this same way and how many of them ended up being tortured and killed before it was all over?

 

Injustice must be protested. not accepted. Compassion should never equal stupidity.

[Marblehead]

They train them (as well as individual thinking) out of the new recruits if they can (from what folks I know experienced in training). This is good and bad I guess, if it were a real war, wouldn't want someone making a stupid decision and getting the entire crew killed off. However with all these BS wars, a lot of innocent civilians are dying too . IMO.

They are trained as best they can be trained to accomplish whatever mission they are assigned. And indeed, we don't want emotions getting involved because it will like be the cause of your and the entire crews demise.

 

War should always be the last resort. It can easily be seen that it has, in some cases, been the first resort. This is the fault of governments, not of the military personell.

[de_paradise]

The Jews felt this same way and how many of them ended up being tortured and killed before it was all over?

 

Injustice must be protested. not accepted. Compassion should never equal stupidity.

I get your point, and its clear that Buddhists are very pacifist, with aims of utter self sacrifice mind of the Boddhisattva. But this is the mindset and you cannot expect a monk to pick up arms and kill, because that would be inconsistent. You can't expect them to make exceptions in their belief in karma and take off their robes etc. to fight and risk killing a soldier (their mother from a previous life), for that would be stupid in their point of view. The ideal or the big big picture is that the highly evolved individuals become the force of hegemony, the leaders of culture and not the followers, or get wallowed in the mire of the deluded . So they say, may all sentient beings be liberated from the mental turmoil and afflictions etc etc, obviously this includes humans of other national boundaries.

[Marblehead]

I get your point, and its clear that Buddhists are very pacifist, with aims of utter self sacrifice mind of the Boddhisattva. But this is the mindset and you cannot expect a monk to pick up arms and kill, because that would be inconsistent. You can't expect them to make exceptions in their belief in karma and take off their robes etc. to fight and risk killing a soldier (their mother from a previous life), for that would be stupid in their point of view. The ideal or the big big picture is that the highly evolved individuals become the force of hegemony, the leaders of culture and not the followers, or get wallowed in the mire of the deluded . So they say, may all sentient beings be liberated from the mental turmoil and afflictions etc etc, obviously this includes humans of other national boundaries.

Okay. Now we are speaking from a reasonable and logical point of view.

 

My first response in this thread was that I doubt that I couldn't find that much compassion. Things went downhill from there.

 

I acknowledge the validity of your post.

 

There is such a thing as a conscientious objector. I admire the philosophy. But someone must object against tyranny and genocide.

 

I have never suggested that everyone needs be a soldier and go out and kill people. That would be a stupid suggestion. But someone must stand up for humanity. Believe it or not there really are evil people who would do anything to further and enhance their power. Doesn't matter how many people need be killed. There must be someone to stop these people.

 

So those who are true pacifist, they have the right to be so. They can wait for others to come to their aid. Sad though, oftentimes the help comes too little and too late.

 

What's that saying? Those who sit by and allow evil to happen are just as guilty as those who are commiting evil.

Edited November 30, 2013 by Marblehead

[C T]

In Buddhist practice, 'exchanging self for others' is not only meant to pacify dualistic tendencies. On the Bodhisattva path, by cutting through even the subtlest self-grasping, which is the very root of rebirth and samsaric evolution, the view of 'friend' and 'enemy' is reconciled, and, as DeParadise said, equanimity takes over on all levels.

 

Such matters can not really be rationalized by those who have not undertaken the necessary practices.

 

Not that all those buddhist practitioners who have (taken vows of samaya) will be able to sever limbs to feed a hungry animal, but its really the intent and motivation that counts in the final analysis. And there is never any force of duty... you do what your level of realization allows room for, not more than that, because then it would be a contrivance, which is also based on ignorance and defeats the whole process. If you cant see it the way the realized beings see it, its ok. We cannot all be Tathagathas. If we were, then there would be no Tathagathas to speak of.

 

Everyone evolves at their own pace, and practice the Way according to their unique mental disposition.

[RiverSnake]

When I am really angry at someone else I find it helpful to calm down and put myself in there shoes. When I understand "there shoes" (reasoning, perspective, desires, pressures, emotions, frustrations....etc) then I understand them and why they act certain ways. My anger then tends to evaporate and is placed by a deep sense of understanding, connection, sympathy and also detachment.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited November 30, 2013 by OldChi

[Marblehead]

Not that all those buddhist practitioners who have (taken vows of samaya) will be able to sever limbs to feed a hungry animal, ...

Well, don't expect me to be cutting off any of my fingers to feed the fish just because I think they might be hungry. I will feed them some fish food that I can buy any time I want at the store. No need for extremes.

[C T]

Well, don't expect me to be cutting off any of my fingers to feed the fish just because I think they might be hungry. I will feed them some fish food that I can buy any time I want at the store. No need for extremes.

Well, you are fortunate to have been born a human, and your fish have the good fortune to be in your care. Some creatures (of all the realms, that is) do not have this fortune -- because of this, there are bodhisattvas and arya beings. In the ultimate sense, no such separation is present, because when one exists, the other arise. Its relative.

 

Just for talking's sake, who knows exactly what is in the fish food. Maybe fingers... who knows for sure. Maybe not yours, but ultimately, 'yours' and 'not yours' are simply conventions. These terms only have limited scope.

Edited November 30, 2013 by C T

[Marblehead]

Well, you are fortunate to have been born a human, and your fish have the good fortune to be in your care. Some creatures (of all the realms, that is) do not have this fortune -- because of this, there are bodhisattvas and arya beings. In the ultimate sense, no such separation is present, because when one exists, the other arise. Its relative.

 

Just for talking's sake, who knows exactly what is in the fish food. Maybe fingers... who knows for sure. Maybe not yours, but ultimately, 'yours' and 'not yours' are simply conventions. These terms only have limited scope.

Oh!, you have gone and gotten too heavy for me. I can't be thinking about all those things. When I read the ingredients on the package of fish food it does not include human fingers so I assume that there are no fingers in there.

 

Sure, some are more fortunate than are others. And this is where compassion can help. I do what I can. I'm sure we all do within our individual limitations. Some could help more, others could keep a little more for themselves.

 

Yes, I am glad I was born a human and not a pig. I would have been someones breakfast a long time ago.

 

As to the fish, I really can't qualify that. Better that they were living free perhaps. Maybe in the rice paddies of Vietnam or China. But then, yes, perhaps better with me than with someone who would not take proper care of them and they would be sickly and dying.

 

Yes, I do agree with you regarding the relativity of things. And true too that if there is a "that" there must be an "other" for "that" to exist.

 

So yes, compassion would be not putting fingers in fish fooed because in order to put fingers in it someone's fingers would have to be cut off and then we are back again to that not being a compassionate thing to do.

 

But then, compassion includes slapping someone aside the head if that is what they are most in need of.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I feel I need my fingers more than my hypothetical fish need food . My fingers help to make sure that I work enough to have this handy roof over my head, and food for said hypothetical fish...

 

Well that and I have personally found balance is good. For a time, I was helping others a little too much, giving too much of myself and my energy, and my health suffered greatly from this. I had to tell a few people that I could no longer help them. Better in the long-run I feel since it meant I'd be around for a much longer time to help some others along the way.

 

Also we must have compassion for *ourselves* as well I feel.

 

Though I may have in the past bought dogfood before my own food (that month sucked), but still, I would find a way to never have to do that long-term!

[BaguaKicksAss]

Thinking back to my earlier comment, I wonder if we can have compassion for someone, while at the same time plotting their demise?

[Marblehead]

Thinking back to my earlier comment, I wonder if we can have compassion for someone, while at the same time plotting their demise?

Hehehe. Well, looked at that in a very logical manner, totally void of emotions, I suppose that would be possible if in fact that person would be better off after their demise. (You would have to consider the consequences it would have on your life too though.)

[BaguaKicksAss]

Usually I more consider that they would no longer be able to screw other people over after myself (in such a situation). The many being more important than the one sort of thing.

[Marblehead]

Hey, there ain't nothing wrong with the consideration of the "greater good".

[Rara]

RE The army and emotions...

 

...game of life... So...

 

...game of war...

 

I am currently being trained to not say sorry if I hurt my sparring partners in wing chun. The guy on the street will want to hurt me, so I need to learn that I need to play the game too.

 

Just learning when to switch off is important.

[BaguaKicksAss]

PS I think CT has sharks in his fish tank .