Ego and Attachment

[Stosh]

It depends on what the meaning of is , is ..if the question is , is there a real me ?.

[Marblehead]

Seems we are getting all caught up in words. Once the concept is grasped the words can be forgotten. Chuang Tzu said that. I just said it too.

[yabyum24]

1. when I interact with others there are moments when I detect that my reactions/comments are born from an egoic space. Then I will make the attempt to temper the ego... ...The problem that I find is when I put myself in that place of trying to temper my thoughts and words is that I am essentially a neutered version of myself.

 

2. I understand that "myself" is just another thought form too which makes the task of navigating it that much more complicated. If the Ego is just another thought well then what does it matter if I bask in it with full force and let it ride like a stallion as long as I know that it's not my essential self anyways ?

 

3. Do you see now how taking a proper view of Ego would clarify how to approach its movement in my life ?

Your reply has brought up three points I'd like to address.

 

1. The first is the "Better Person Syndrome" which 99.9% of all religious content is concerned with. This is the "I should do this, think this, believe this" moralistic whine that's just a continuation of conditioning from our childhood. "I shouldn't be hating that asshole, desiring stuff / spanking my monkey etc!" I've failed! "If God doesn't exist, karma will send me to hell instead!

 

This is self-indulgent crap and is nowhere near finding the ego. No wonder you get fed up when you impose it on yourself.

 

2. The "Ego doesn't exist because ultimately all is empty" Philosophy. Be very careful with this one. Buddhists employ logic and intellect to search for the ego in the following way: Can it be located amongst it's constituent parts, or in fact elsewhere?

Of course it can't, (doh!) therefore it's mere imputation, designation, projection, illusory etc. In the nature of emptiness!!!

 

Sorry, but expecting intellect and reason to identify ego, is like expecting the son of a dictator to hand his father over to a war crimes tribunal - it's never going to happen. The above may give you a warm feeling of satisfaction but, in reality, it's just Mara's bitch.

 

3. "taking a proper view of Ego" won't help anything because there isn't a "a proper view of Ego", it's just ever more crap of one kind or another. The astonishing thing is, that ego does exist - can be identified and then...

 

... the fun starts.

 

Buddha was desperate to teach this to people and he tried to ram the technique home, time and again. If people have since chosen to disregard it, mores the pity. The stupid thing is, it's very simple to the extent that it's suspiciously simple. Too simple to appease ego (which does not want to be discovered btw) because once that happens, the facade begins to break.

 

Some people will tell you it's "dangerous" or that you have to be pure in order to succeed. Others will say that such teachings were only meant for Buddha's time, as people were "purer" then, and could benefit in the way Buddha intended. The Buddhist Terminology Police Dept. will insist that Buddha's teachings are only accessible if you learn a long-dead Asian language. Others will tell you that only with specific prerequisites/ lineage/ empowerments/ kusha grass under your meditation cushion etc. can you succeed.

 

People like above choke the life out of Buddhist forums, slowly festering and spreading irresolution over time. But there's nothing Buddha taught that does not apply to anyone right now - it's universal and accessible, you just need to apply a little effort (very little in fact) and you will get results.

 

Identifying the ego is crucial and the fist step to liberation because Buddha's teachings on Annatta etc only make sense within this context, so what you are asking is critically important, brushing it aside is the deed of a fool.

[Starjumper]

Seems we are getting all caught up in words. Once the concept is grasped the words can be forgotten. Chuang Tzu said that. I just said it too.

 

 

This is true, but since words are needed in the beginning: Since there is plenty written now using the words self and ego. I have a challenge for you people: Make an attempt to say what you are trying to say using plain English without using the specialized essentially meaningless words 'self' and 'ego'. If you wish, accept this mission for your own entertainment. This tape will self destruct in five seconds.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Starjumper

[johndoe2012]

Your reply has brought up three points I'd like to address.

 

1. The first is the "Better Person Syndrome" which 99.9% of all religious content is concerned with. This is the "I should do this, think this, believe this" moralistic whine that's just a continuation of conditioning from our childhood. "I shouldn't be hating that asshole, desiring stuff / spanking my monkey etc!" I've failed! "If God doesn't exist, karma will send me to hell instead!

 

This is self-indulgent crap and is nowhere near finding the ego. No wonder you get fed up when you impose it on yourself.

 

2. The "Ego doesn't exist because ultimately all is empty" Philosophy. Be very careful with this one. Buddhists employ logic and intellect to search for the ego in the following way: Can it be located amongst it's constituent parts, or in fact elsewhere?

Of course it can't, (doh!) therefore it's mere imputation, designation, projection, illusory etc. In the nature of emptiness!!!

 

Sorry, but expecting intellect and reason to identify ego, is like expecting the son of a dictator to hand his father over to a war crimes tribunal - it's never going to happen. The above may give you a warm feeling of satisfaction but, in reality, it's just Mara's bitch.

 

3. "taking a proper view of Ego" won't help anything because there isn't a "a proper view of Ego", it's just ever more crap of one kind or another. The astonishing thing is, that ego does exist - can be identified and then...

 

... the fun starts.

 

Buddha was desperate to teach this to people and he tried to ram the technique home, time and again. If people have since chosen to disregard it, mores the pity. The stupid thing is, it's very simple to the extent that it's suspiciously simple. Too simple to appease ego (which does not want to be discovered btw) because once that happens, the facade begins to break.

 

Some people will tell you it's "dangerous" or that you have to be pure in order to succeed. Others will say that such teachings were only meant for Buddha's time, as people were "purer" then, and could benefit in the way Buddha intended. The Buddhist Terminology Police Dept. will insist that Buddha's teachings are only accessible if you learn a long-dead Asian language. Others will tell you that only with specific prerequisites/ lineage/ empowerments/ kusha grass under your meditation cushion etc. can you succeed.

 

People like above choke the life out of Buddhist forums, slowly festering and spreading irresolution over time. But there's nothing Buddha taught that does not apply to anyone right now - it's universal and accessible, you just need to apply a little effort (very little in fact) and you will get results.

 

Identifying the ego is crucial and the fist step to liberation because Buddha's teachings on Annatta etc only make sense within this context, so what you are asking is critically important, brushing it aside is the deed of a fool.

So how do you identify the ego?

 

Regarding people who rant on forums, I find it easy to sense who's got it and who only knows things intellectually.

[Jetsun]

So how do you identify the ego?

 

You can't, there are thousands of maps trying to identify it all saying different things. Nobody has ever found an ego.

[Marblehead]

Make an attempt to say what you are trying to say using plain English without using the specialized essentially meaningless words 'self' and 'ego'.

'Self' equals all that I am in body and mind.

 

'Ego' equals our understanding of all that we are.

 

Most of us do not have an honest and true understanding of 'all that we are in body and mind'. This would be false ego.

[Starjumper]

That's good.

 

I have a really well written piece that I will share in my personal practice folder and will link to it here. It's written by Zentao, do you know of him?

Edited December 6, 2013 by Starjumper

[Boy]

...

Edited January 15, 2014 by Boy

[johndoe2012]

You can't, there are thousands of maps trying to identify it all saying different things. Nobody has ever found an ego.

That is my experience as well but sometimes what one calls the ego and what another calls the ego are two different things.

[johndoe2012]

If you have identified the ego do you still find yourself reactive in daily life?

 

Or has the level of internal peace increased?

[Starjumper]

Therefore, since there is no agreement on what ego really means, discussing, learning about it, or analyzing it, as our Buddhist friend suggests, is actually unneeded for growth. Some people do feel a strong need for verbal explanations, always a problem with cultivation, and I have a sneaking feeling that either they are doomed to not go far if they stay focused on words, OR as was mentioned earlier, they will later discard it. Because in actuality all that is needed is good meditation. So, I stand firm in stating that discussing the ego is NOT needed for growth.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Starjumper

[C T]

 

So, I stand firm in stating that discussing the ego is NOT needed for growth.

Yes, you are right, discussing the ego will actually hinder growth.

[yabyum24]

So how do you identify the ego?

 

Regarding people who rant on forums, I find it easy to sense who's got it and who only knows things intellectually.

I'll start a new thread on that topic, rather than derail this one. But I'm busy, so it may be a few days. @Jetsun, yes you will never find it on a map or by any kind of intellectual process. CT & Starjumper, agree that "discussing" the ego is speculative at best and can hinder growth.

 

The OP was asking for an explanation, in order to quantify the mental processes he has witnessed. There isn't one worth repeating or wasting one's time looking for. But there is a means of locating it within meditation, of turning the attention onto it - if one is ready.

Edited December 6, 2013 by yabyum24

[Marblehead]

That's good.

 

I have a really well written piece that I will share in my personal practice folder and will link to it here. It's written by Zentao, do you know of him?

Thanks.

 

I don't think I know the person. If you link it I'll read it.

[Marblehead]

Or has the level of internal peace increased?

Yes to this.

[juliank]

I'll start a new thread on that topic, rather than derail this one. But I'm busy, so it may be a few days. @Jetsun, yes you will never find it on a map or by any kind of intellectual process. CT & Starjumper, agree that "discussing" the ego is speculative at best and can hinder growth.

 

The OP was asking for an explanation, in order to quantify the mental processes he has witnessed. There isn't one worth repeating or wasting one's time looking for. But there is a means of locating it within meditation, of turning the attention onto it - if one is ready.

 

I was born ready

 

Looking forward to your post and thank you so much for replying to my initial points in very clear diagrammatic form. It's how I think so that way of replying really resonates.

[Starjumper]

I don't think I know the person. If you link it I'll read it.

 

I couldn't find that article on my computer but I'll keep looking.

[Marblehead]

I couldn't find that article on my computer but I'll keep looking.

Don't bother your mind about it.

 

But still, we do need to keep our ego in check, and lessen our desires. But it is hard for me to speak agains attachments. We all have attachments, even if it is just the attachment we have to our belief system that might teach ridding ourself of attachments.

[Starjumper]

I agree, Taoism is a lot about doing what's natural and to find our true human nature and align with it. So I just threw a new word(s) into the mix, 'human nature' but that's a plain English word that has real meaning. It's natural for people to have a sense of 'I am a separate entity'* and have interests, and attachments, which are simply things that ae important to us, aren't they? Like I mentioned earlier, instead of trying to reject all attachments to have peace it is better to recognize how attachments bring out the positive and negative in our emotions, to accept the negative with the positive, and to choose our attachments wisely. I think that brings on a much deeper sense of peace than one of avoiding attachments, which is just another big fat attachment.

 

When a person is full of vitality and health and feels good about themselves emotionally then it's just natural human nature to be exuberant, and this exuberance can bother people who aren't in the same place, and there are mass quantities of people these days who aren't in that place, more than ever before in history. I have a serious case of exuberance which is named enthusiasmos, and everyone with telephone poles up their butts see this enthusiasm as an emotional problem. So when we are dealing with the world of people with those people we need to use restraint to keep from upsetting them. What I've ended up doing about that is running away from the 'civilized' world, become a mountain hermit, and only invite people that also have enthusiasmos.

 

If and when I start having volunteers/worker/students visit then that would require using some restraint.

 

There, I wrote about it without using the stupid words self and ego.

 

* edited to remove an accidental use of the word 'self'.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Starjumper

[Marblehead]

Yeah, you did a great job.

 

Funny, "telephones poles up their butt". I have used the term "cell phones implanted in their ear" but I like yours better.

 

I escaped too but I am in plain sight. Only people I consider "friend" come into my world. I have actually told people that they were not welcome in my world.

 

Yes, live with enthusiasm. That's good. I trie to do that. Hehehe. Some times I get too enthusiastic but I know how to back off so all is well. We need to remember to dance, don't we?

 

Yes, knowing that our attachments are external to our inner essence is important. That way the loss of any attachment will be only the loss of something external and therefore should never disturb our inner peace.

Edited December 7, 2013 by Marblehead

[Everything]

It sux that my ego is so attached to being detached from everything...

 

Wait... What did I just do?

 

Quickly, over here! Get into the cave, I will cover your back! GO! NAOW!

 

Don't paint on the walls. We might actually like this place

[Marblehead]

It sux that my ego is so attached to being detached from everything...

Therein lies the problem.

[Stosh]

Yep , a well kept cave is very cozy.. especially with a few decorations and room service.

[manitou]

Going back to how our view of ego was Useful, all I can add is my own experience; for those on this thread who have heard it before, please just ignore me.

 

I was a degenerate alcoholic living a degenerate life. I found the 12 steps of recovery. Perhaps the most crucial step of all is the one where we do a fearless moral inventory. I listed every character defect known to man and assumed I had all of them to some degree. Usually, I did. I recapitulated my life and looked at it all, seeing where I had been wrong and seeing my own part in my screw-ups.

 

Ego was squashed repeatedly when I made amends (another step) to those I had harmed. The upshot of all this was that I became Teachable and realized that every decision and point of view I had possessed and cherished up to that point had done nothing more than get me into the quagmire I was living. It was in modifying and diminishing ego to the best of my ability that has kept me sober for 32 years and has turned me into more of an outer-directed person. As opposed to an inner-directed person who was concerned only for the narrowly personal.

 

If this scenario would qualify it as Useful, I offer it up to the OP.