Debunking a Creator

[RongzomFan]

In which way specifically are you asking?

In any way, does your God change or not?

[Simple_Jack]

Nothing personal...but at this point, I fully realize how absolutely fruitless it is to continue a discussion with you, RongzomFan. You've shown very little interest in arriving at truth through logic, and as a result of this behavior, you haven't been able to 'debunk the Creator'. I refer you to the logic textbook I hyperlinked previously...it will help you in your endeavor, if it's possible.

 

The reverse can be said by RongzomFan.

 

Perhaps you're right. Explain how? Note...I'm no longer responding to anything in this thread but I'll see what you have to say and consider whether it's true or false.

 

Perhaps, this video from a Hinayana perspective, could help you understand Buddhist tenet systems better:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32345-vdo-sound-effect-meditiation-and-mindfulness/?p=490442

[RongzomFan]

You have not demonstrated that the universe is completely equivalent with illusion

Physicists have recently demonstrated it:

 

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32908-universe-could-be-hologram/

Edited December 12, 2013 by RongzomFan

[Dolokhov]

In any way, does your God change or not?

 

I guess the easiest way to answer that is "no", but answering either yes or no does not give a complete answer. On one hand God's nature is infinite (or rather transcends the infinite), on the other it is completely simple and incomposite:

 

"We are not by nature simple; but the divine nature, perfectly simple and incomposite, has in itself the abundance of all perfection and is in need of nothing." - St. Cyril of Alexandria

[Simple_Jack]

Agreed.

 

On the point about capacity, you're right...but to say someone doesn't have the capacity in the midst of this discussion is an insult. It's not merely stating the facts, such as the person doesn't have the accumulated merit, etc. RongzomFan doesn't know the merit accumulation, past life connection, intellectual capacity, etc of others. He used the term in a condescending way.

It's really not about someone's intellectual capacity. I would say, based off of my interactions with them on this board, that ralis, gatito, adept, Jetsun, etc. don't have the capacity to want to understand much less accept Buddhist tenet systems.

 

Contributing factors which, in Buddhism, are also listed among the 8 worldly dharmas, the 8 leisures and 10 endowments of a 'precious human rebirth' [http://www.thubtenchodron.org/GradualPathToEnlightenment/O_PreciousHumanLife.html] and the degree to which the kleshas obstruct progress on the path. In any case, regardless of the differences in tenet systems and what narrative we ultimately follow: all of us are searching for happiness in some way. So we should rejoice, that unlike the average person: we have accumulated enough merit for the right conditions to look for happiness outside of mundane pursuits.

 

http://www.rigpawiki.org/index.php?title=Aryadeva

 

Those with little merit will not

Even wonder about these things.

But merely to entertain doubts

About saṃsāra will make it fall apart. ~ Āryadeva, Four Hundred Verses, VIII, 5

[Isimsiz Biri]

But the Hadith say the Koran is corrupted.

 

 

You do understand that al-Bukhari etc. are considered the best Hadith by even Muslims right?

 

 

Holy Quran is not corrupted. Your Buddhist texts? They are all man made, according to your definition, they are all corrupted.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Fine.

 

Go by the Koran itself:

 

Google "contradictions in the koran" or "contradictions in the quran".

 

I googled "Contradictions in Buddhism" Look what I found. Are they correct?

 

http://www.faithdefenders.com/articles/worldreligions/Buddhism_Unmasked.html

 

The Buddha

Buddhism is supposedly built upon the teachings and example of a Hindu guru who was called the “Buddha,” i.e. Enlightened One. The problem we face is that this guru did not write down any of his teachings. Neither did any of his early disciples. A few manuscripts appear four to five hundred years after his death! But most of the manuscripts do not appear until nearly 1,000 years after his death. This gives plenty of time for legends and myths to arise that falsify the life and teachings of the guru.

This problem is further complicated by the development of two contradictory literary traditions: Pali and Sanskrit. These divergent literary traditions produced hundreds of Buddhist sects that disagree with each other on many major points.

No Primary Sources

Because the lack of primary source materials for the history of Buddhism, modern scholars seriously doubt the reliability of the traditional legends about the Buddha. As a matter of fact, if he were alive today he would not recognize the religion that bears his name! Since Buddhists themselves disagree on the “facts” of the life and teachings of their guru, there is more than adequate reason to cast doubt on the entire history of the “Buddha.”

[RongzomFan]

 

 

Holy Quran is not corrupted. Your Buddhist texts? They are all man made, according to your definition, they are all corrupted.

 

But they are not man-made. Terma is not man-made.

[RongzomFan]

 

 

I googled "Contradictions in Buddhism" Look what I found. Are they correct?

 

http://www.faithdefenders.com/articles/worldreligions/Buddhism_Unmasked.html

 

The Buddha

Buddhism is supposedly built upon the teachings and example of a Hindu guru who was called the “Buddha,” i.e. Enlightened One. The problem we face is that this guru did not write down any of his teachings. Neither did any of his early disciples. A few manuscripts appear four to five hundred years after his death! But most of the manuscripts do not appear until nearly 1,000 years after his death. This gives plenty of time for legends and myths to arise that falsify the life and teachings of the guru.

 

This problem is further complicated by the development of two contradictory literary traditions: Pali and Sanskrit. These divergent literary traditions produced hundreds of Buddhist sects that disagree with each other on many major points.

 

 

No Primary Sources

Because the lack of primary source materials for the history of Buddhism, modern scholars seriously doubt the reliability of the traditional legends about the Buddha. As a matter of fact, if he were alive today he would not recognize the religion that bears his name! Since Buddhists themselves disagree on the “facts” of the life and teachings of their guru, there is more than adequate reason to cast doubt on the entire history of the “Buddha.”

 

First off, Buddha was not a Hindu.

 

Secondly, I don't follow the teachings of Buddha.

 

I follow the teachings of the Mahasiddhas called Vajrayana.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasiddha

Edited December 12, 2013 by RongzomFan

[Dolokhov]

 

First off, Buddha was not a Hindu.

 

Secondly, I don't follow the teachings of Buddha.

 

I follow the teachings of the Mahasiddhas called Vajrayana.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahasiddha

 

I was under the impression that Vajrayana was a type of Buddhism (in the same way that "Catholic" is a type of Christianity). Please correct me if I'm wrong:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vajrayana

[RongzomFan]

Yes, that's right.

[Dolokhov]

Ah - I'm a little bit confused then: how do you follow a Buddhist denomination, but not the teachings of the Buddha?

[RongzomFan]

Mahasiddhas and tertons are Buddhas.

[Isimsiz Biri]

But they are not man-made. Terma is not man-made.

 

Who wrote Terma? The Bon religion demons?

[RongzomFan]

No

[Wu Ming Jen]

What can not be created or destroyed? what can not be made more pure or less pure?

 

We are surrounded by creative energy but this needs the receptive to be complete. So it is all yes and no, such is the divided mind.

 

When we look to nature for answers all becomes obvious with no thing left to question. So before embarking on this journey I would recommend becoming a whole real person and not be a dependent of outside authorities that dictates ones life.

[Dolokhov]

Mahasiddhas and tertons are Buddhas.

 

Ah. I'm don't know enough about this tradition, so I'll have to refrain here

[Isimsiz Biri]

No

 

 

Then your Terma has been written by humans which shows that it is corrupted 100% according to your criteria.

Edited December 13, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[RongzomFan]

Then your Terma has been written by humans which shows that it is corrupted 100% according to your criteria.

LMAO, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

[Isimsiz Biri]

LMAO, how did you arrive at that conclusion?

 

Simple, I am following your Satanic logic.

[RongzomFan]

You asked if terma was bon demonic religion.

 

I said no.

[gatito]

So nobody managed to debunk a Creator and the thread's been moved from General Discussion to the Buddhist sub-forum.

 

Double-whammy!!

[RongzomFan]

So nobody managed to debunk a Creator and the thread's been moved from General Discussion to the Buddhist sub-forum.

 

Double-whammy!!

Its been debunked.

[RongzomFan]

Either a Creator changes or doesn't change.

 

Either way you are screwed.

[gatito]

Its been debunked.

 

In your own illusory mind, certainly