Daily timetable of the Quanzhen retreat

[Dolokhov]

 

 

I totally agree with you.

I do not want to quarrel with anyone on this forum, but some people come here and start writing a blatant lie about me and I have to respond.

 

Ah, that is actually a question which I often debate with myself, Vitalii. You are a teacher of students, maybe you can give me some insight: when is it good to respond to attacks, and when not? I know that Jesus and Socrates were very picky when they responded to attackers, but I imagine this is very hard to always be silent. I welcome your opinion!

Edited December 13, 2013 by Dolokhov

[Vitalii]

Ah, that is actually a question which I often debate with myself, Vitalii. You are a teacher of students, maybe you can give me some insight: when is it good to respond to attacks, and when not? I know that Jesus and Socrates were very picky when they responded to attackers, but I imagine this is very hard to always be silent. I welcome your opinion!

I'm always open to a normal conversation with people. In my messages, I do not criticize anyone, and arguments express my point of view. I understand that someone may not agree with it, but I do not think that it is a reason to become personal, rude and insult others.

When someone tells lies, I think it is necessary to point out that this is a lie, because if you do not respond, people can believe it.

but in general, the war with opponents is not my style, and I do not see any reasons to aggressively attack even those with whom I fundamentally disagree.

However, there are people who like to attack and insult others, and, when a person shows rudeness, I reckon moderatorion should be stricter.

P.S.

Master Ma Danyang said:

"Each day, you must not forget the matter of daily practice. Daily practice consists of two types: daily external practice and daily internal practice. Considering daily external practice, you are strongly forbidden to see the faults of others, boast about your own virtue, envy the wise and talented, give rise to worldly thoughts that are the fire of ignorance, give rise to feelings of superiority over the masses, [discriminate] between self and other or right and wrong, or to speak of hatred and affection."

Edited December 14, 2013 by Vitalii

[Antares]

As I said I can prove everything what I said about this "honest" teacher. So to call somebody, who can prove his words, liar is LIE and moderation should consider this fact actually. I did not call this person liar for example and nothing personal at all but he called me liar few times. So...? I can prove very easily for example his lie about his taichi lineage but he can not prove his words about his lineage. Moderation, hello!

[Jetsun]

As I said I can prove everything what I said about this "honest" teacher. So to call somebody, who can prove his words, liar is LIE and moderation should consider this fact actually. I did not call this person liar for example and nothing personal at all but he called me liar few times. So...? I can prove very easily for example his lie about his taichi lineage but he can not prove his words about his lineage. Moderation, hello!

 

Then prove it, at the moment it just looks like personal attacks and harassment

[Mal]

Yes clearly this is not true

And I stop here definitely. i will not reply anymore on V. posts as it takes my time

Guys you have a choice, thrash this issue out for one last time in this thread.

So Antares - discuss this one last time , because following Vitalii across threads having the same disagreement again and again is not helpfull at all.

[Antares]

So what you want for the last time? Who really needs it and why? I can prove what I said if someone needs it but when I do it you say I continue to attack Vitaly. Not fair. He already agreed with what I said so what' problem? What you want to know? Do you need it?

[Mal]

What I would like is for you to stop following Vitalii across threads and ending up in the same disagreement because I think continuing to do that is harassment.

Vitaly, I have no goal arguing with you. It is no of any avail.

<snip>

I have no any desire to talk to you any longer as it would be waste of time

[Antares]

Yes I am not talking to him anymore. In this thread he called me liar and this is personal insult. And breaks the rule of this forum.

[Antares]

I only wanted to help people to avoid getting problems in such schools as Vitaly teaches that "swelling of the head" during the practice in his school is normal. I have link for these words of him. At least people have right to know more about such issues. Have a look on what he offers here. This is not harassment from my side. But if moderation against it I really must stop here. No problem and please no stress.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Antares

[Mal]

Thank you for agreeing to stop, I feel you understand the warnings in this thread and I do not want to have to suspend you from posting for harassment.

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

 

 

Isimsiz Biri Treat other members with respect. No personal attacks.

 

 

Mal Stainkey,

 

"If your heart is bright, then even in a dark chamber there is blue sky.

If your thoughts are gloomy, then even in broad daylight cruel demons appear."

_____________

Hong Zicheng

 

If somebody calls me my thoughts are gloomy and I see cruel demons in broad daylight, according to you this is not insult?

 

What will you say if I said "Hey, Mal Stainkey, your thoughts are gloomy and you see cruel demons in broad daylight" What would you say? Just a theoretical question, do not take personally.

 

And the very same person is making some innocent people sleep for two hours for seven - ten days to get their money.

 

I was very very very very polite.

[Mal]

Good morning Isimsiz Biri.

 

Thank you for your reply as it might allow me to clear up some misunderstandings about moderation.

 

I was actually just discussing with the other mods that the post you quoted by Vitalii was probably what prompted you to respond that way.

 

You didn't report that post, so I'm not really sure how you felt about it - except via your replies.

Those replies generated reports, from the person the post was directed at, as well as others reading this thread.

Those reports though your posts were intended to be insulting, and on reading them moderators did also.

So now there is a moderator here, seeing if we can treat others with respect and not post personal insults - Hence the warning you received.

 

I've also got this thread on "notify" so that I am aware of the replies posted here.

 

This is perhaps a good example of why moderation looks unbalanced. Moderators don't read every thread. People don't report every post. Moderators really only "appear" once conflict has set in - and that's because we will usually wait for reports before we intervene. Now almost always during that intervention moderators find out that there have been several posts preceding the reported post and that someone was responding to something they though was an insult.

 

Or it's a disagreement about "truth" or "safety"

 

We like posters to make their own conclusions, and we feel the best way to do that is to treat others with respect and not post personal insults.

 

 

What will you say if I said "Hey, Mal Stainkey, your thoughts are gloomy and you see cruel demons in broad daylight" What would you say?

 

"Sorry I've just started moderating again after a long break. It's more taxing that I remembered, guess that is effecting my outlook. I'll add more "uplifting" practices into my schedule."

[_王彗_]

This topic proves, that nowadays making pai`s is not much harder than making pies.

Edited December 16, 2013 by _王彗_

[Isimsiz Biri]

Good morning Isimsiz Biri.

 

Thank you for your reply as it might allow me to clear up some misunderstandings about moderation.

 

I was actually just discussing with the other mods that the post you quoted by Vitalii was probably what prompted you to respond that way.

 

You didn't report that post, so I'm not really sure how you felt about it - except via your replies.

Those replies generated reports, from the person the post was directed at, as well as others reading this thread.

Those reports though your posts were intended to be insulting, and on reading them moderators did also.

So now there is a moderator here, seeing if we can treat others with respect and not post personal insults - Hence the warning you received.

 

I've also got this thread on "notify" so that I am aware of the replies posted here.

 

This is perhaps a good example of why moderation looks unbalanced. Moderators don't read every thread. People don't report every post. Moderators really only "appear" once conflict has set in - and that's because we will usually wait for reports before we intervene. Now almost always during that intervention moderators find out that there have been several posts preceding the reported post and that someone was responding to something they though was an insult.

 

Or it's a disagreement about "truth" or "safety"

 

We like posters to make their own conclusions, and we feel the best way to do that is to treat others with respect and not post personal insults.

 

 

 

"Sorry I've just started moderating again after a long break. It's more taxing that I remembered, guess that is effecting my outlook. I'll add more "uplifting" practices into my schedule."

 

Mal Stainkey,

 

Believe me if I report every insult I received, as moderator team you would only read my threads, nothing else. I never attack anybody unless I am attacked. And I respond according to level of attack to me. If somebody reports me, please tell every moderator to read the posts just before my posts. You would see the clear attack on me.

 

For the topic, I really do not know if Vitalii's school is a real lineage or not. I have absolutely no idea. I am not interested at all.

By the way, it may be a real lineage too. It does not matter. If you make people to sleep for two hours for 7 - 10 consecutive days, you give harm to them. For the attention of everybody, does Vitalii explain how come his "advanced" students pass this retreat without getting harm? Are some of their chakras open? How? No explanation.

 

I know real masters can make this thing happen, i.e., two hours sleep, but these masters apply it all throughout the year and also it is a very high level. In Vitalii's case, poor attendees sleep normally all throughout the year and then they sleep for two hours for 7 - 10 days. Definitely negative. Definitely.

 

In my opinion, this is an ethical question for mods. Should such an advertisement be allowed in this site or not? I do not know.

[Vitalii]

For the attention of everybody, does Vitalii explain how come his "advanced" students pass this retreat without getting harm?

 

In Vitalii's case, poor attendees sleep normally all throughout the year and then they sleep for two hours for 7 - 10 days. Definitely negative. Definitely. In my opinion, this is an ethical question for mods. Should such an advertisement be allowed in this site or not? I do not know.

 

Your opinion is wrong.

 

1. they do not get harm, because they are advanced.

 

2. I do not take on such a difficult retreat those whom I do not know personally.

 

3. it was not me who invented this program

 

4. it is a traditionally daily timetable of the Quanzhen retreat. http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/#entry503883

 

5. this schedule is not for beginners.

 

6. all practitioners receive very good results. see an example http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/page-4#entry505059

Edited December 16, 2013 by Vitalii

[Isimsiz Biri]

Your opinion is wrong.

 

1. they do not get harm, because they are advanced.

 

2. I do not take on such a difficult retreat those whom I do not know personally.

 

3. it was not me who invented this program

 

4. it is a traditionally daily timetable of the Quanzhen retreat. http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/#entry503883

 

5. this schedule is not for beginners.

 

6. all practitioners receive very good results. see an example http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/page-4#entry505059

 

Again, no single word about how these "advanced" practitioners do not get any harm from this retreat. If such a result is achievable, then you should apply this two hour sleep all around the year? Just think of it. You are gaining six extra hours everyday in your life? Wouldn't it be nice? If I were an "advanced" student, I would definitely do it. On the contrary, I bet these poor "advanced" students are sleeping for 48 hours continuously after the retreat.

 

I will not reply any more. I have more serious jobs to do.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Isimsiz Biri

[_王彗_]

if you knew the history of Quanzhen, you would know that there are seven schools of Zhen Dao in China.

Do you mean your School belongs to Quanzhen or it is Quanzhen it self?

Edited December 16, 2013 by _王彗_

[Vitalii]

I already answered to you earlier

 

I will not answer your questions If you ignore mine.

[_王彗_]

So, since your "school" "belongs" to Quanzhen, it is possible to check this in China, cause Quanzhen have official status?

[_王彗_]

it is the case.

initially they were collectively known as "Seven School of Zhen Dao" (七真道派 or 北七真道派)

七真道派 = 七真 道派 = Seven True`s Tao Schools, there is NOT anything about "zhen dao" and never was here or somewhere else.

 

 

 

Chinese characters are not the details of Lego-constructor that kids can play as they want to.

Edited December 16, 2013 by _王彗_

[Antares]

You are wasting your time talking to this person. Do not waste your time!

[ChiDragon]

The whole confusion was really started with the name of the Taoist sect that was improperly named(名不正言不順). This is the worse case that an organization would want it to happen.

Edited December 16, 2013 by ChiDragon

[_王彗_]

You are wasting your time talking to this person. Do not waste your time!

I`m not talking to him, he have nothing to answer, thus he shows who he is and what his "school" is.

[taomen]

七真道派 = 七真 道派 = Seven True`s Tao Schools, there is NOT anything about "zhen dao" and never was here or somewhere else.

 

 

 

Chinese characters are not the details of Lego-constructor that kids can play as they want to.

As I understand Vitalii again caught lying

[Vitalii]

a fragment of my article written a month ago:

"Most famous of Wang Chongyang’s disciples were:

1. Ma Yu (馬飪), also know as Ma Danyang (馬丹陽)

2. Tan Chuduan (譚處端), also know as Tan Changzhen (譚長真)

3. Qiu Chuji (丘處機), also know as Qiu Changchun (丘長春)

4. Liu Chuxuan (劉處玄), also know as Liu Changsheng (劉長生)

5. Wang Chuyi (王處一) also know as Wang Yuyang (王玉陽)

6. Hao Datong (郝大通), also know as Hao Guangning (郝廣寧)

7. Sun Bu'er (孫不二), also know as Sun Qingjing (孫清靜)

Wang Chongyang and his first disciples often speak of the Dao as Zhen Dao (真道), “the true Dao” or "the true way".

These seven disciples are also known as “The Seven Perfected" or "Seven True's» (七真). Therefore, the doctrine of the "Seven True's» (七真) is also called the "Seven Schools of Zhen Dao» (七真道派) or «Seven Schools of the True Way" or "Seven Daoist Schools of the True's [people]".

Edited December 17, 2013 by Vitalii