This sort of bums me out :(

[BaguaKicksAss]

Seeing TTBs members having such animosity towards each other. Yes I know that realistically of course it is going to happen, we have a few thousand members, and realistically it is amazing that we all get along as well as we do.

 

Still though, it saddens me that things are taken so personally, but also that things are directed so personally at times too.

 

I think that sometimes we grow angry at the person posting, instead of just being angry at what they post. I find this unfortunate. Btw, I am definitely not saying that I am immune to this, and I find it fortunate that I can take some time to calm down and think about what I'm going to write sometimes lol. I will also admit to having made a few long-term internet enemies over the years lol. (no not anyone on here).

 

I have also noticed that people tend to be quite different in PM or email, than when posting. They tend to be more respectful and just just plain nicer. This has made me think that this is likely the case with more people than just the few I have had the pleasure of getting to know better. It has helped me to be a little more understanding about members who's posts drive me up the wall.

 

I cannot think of any way to have all this happen less, and tbh it is just reality. We are a group of people who have strong opinions, think for ourselves and don't tend to follow the herd, even the TTBs herd .

 

It still does get to me sometimes though, especially in cases where I personally like both people who are trying to tear each other a new one.

 

I can only imagine how this would all go if we were ALL in person at the same place at the same time. I'm pretty sure we would get thrown out of the park or restaurant rather quickly .

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS hats off to the mods/admin :>.

[C T]

In Buddhism, 'Harsh speech' is something to be abandoned for one who seeks to gain liberation from rebirth.

 

When something harsh is uttered, even if its just heard by oneself, it reverberates and gives rise to a thought, usually equally harsh, and this sets off another harsh word, and so on. This is also a type of rebirth, in a micro sequence. I call it 'micro' because it happens in small doses while we are alive, but each time it does happen, it gathers some imprinted energy and this gets stored somewhere in the deeper mind or gets trapped in the body among one or more of the organs.

 

In this particular example, Liberation means having the alertness to see the arising/on-set of harsh speech and its potential after-effect before actually indulging it, so this mindful attention cuts the rebirth of the effect at the root, meaning to have the wisdom to recognise and see clearly the moment its about to arise, and then not reacting to the force of that intent. This ability to pause allows the time for choosing an alternate response, be it to keep silent or say something neutral or better still something which promotes peace and harmony. It can be done. The only thing which sustains the force that drives the harsh speech out of the mouth is the conditioned ego.

 

Therefore, one who has the habitual tendency to use harsh speech is still a slave to samsaric ego, and has work to do.

[Nungali]

From a different perspective I have been on another site fairly active for years. It is modded totally different and does not have a TTB's flavour as you outline above.

 

What some of the people have said here would be moderated and their post removed. If they persisted they would be suspended or banned. Action is taken fairly quickly. There are mods for each separate forum though and I think they work quiet a bit. There is nothing like a pit ... I think people on other site would be outraged if someone started trouble in a thread and some one responded and the whole thread was diverted to a pit and allowed to just flop and slop in the mud there ... I mean, I obviously don't mind a nekkid mud wrestle now and again but it really seems to get up some other people's noses. What would happen is that the offensive post/s would be removed and the instigator would be warned or censured.

 

Also the different mods there have different styles ... some 'schoolmarms' and other quiet liberal and experimenting with freedom (which, as in any society, only works if its majority of members are developed and responsible).

 

I don't know if TTB has a fee associated anywhere with it? The other site does so maybe that is how they can these moderators ... maybe they get perks or privileges ???

 

Yes, hats off to all mods.

 

I feel this site is more anarchistic in that respect. I have read (only a tiny bit) about the moderation policy and ideals here and I believe a less strict approach was desired ? Well, if so, that will come with an effect.

[silent thunder]

I remember one evening coming to the conclusion that the world is not about 'me'.

So I stopped taking it personally.

 

so much more space now to thrive...

[Aetherous]

Disagreements are temporary, and without the cold we wouldn't know how nice hot cocoa can be.

[chegg]

Disagreements are temporary, and without the cold we wouldn't know how nice hot cocoa can be.

 

 

And it does give one the opportunity to study one's own behavior. A sort of 'Know thyself' kind of thing.

 

"If you don't like something about someone then the problem may actually be with you ?"

 

"Look at your own behavior before criticizing someone else's behavior"

 

I try and love everyone regardless of what their attitude may be (and sometimes it is not easy).

 

"A ship is safe in the harbor, but that is not what ship's are for"

 

 

Love and blessings

:wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited December 11, 2013 by chegg

[yabyum24]

At least this place is not governed by a crushing consensus or a handful of prima donnas laying the law down. Too orderly can become too predictable and too predictable is always boring and not good for growth.

[BaguaKicksAss]

And it does give one the opportunity to study one's own behavior. A sort of 'Know thyself' kind of thing.

 

"If you don't like something about someone then the problem may actually be with you ?"

 

"Look at your own behavior before criticizing someone else's behavior"

 

I try and love everyone regardless of what their attitude may be (and sometimes it is not easy).

 

"A ship is safe in the harbor, but that is not what ship's are for"

 

 

Love and blessings

:wub: :wub: :wub:

 

Yes, I have to admit I get embarrassed sometimes at my reaction to things, with the thought of "holy hell it's an internet forum and a post by someone" LOL. At least there's been vast improvement . I've found it's easier, yet more difficult than in person. In person you don't have the option of doing something else for awhile until you are back to neutral, but somehow in person people/things they say, don't annoy me nearly as much. Though perhaps if I were around the same number per day as the number online here, that could change . I guess just PMing someone is similar to, hey lets go have a beer and chat about this...

[manitou]

As of late,

My soul is saddened as well, BKA.

Not for exactly the same reason

But for one slightly different.

 

This forum for me has been

A lifeline of sorts;

Kindred spirits are so very difficult to find.

My everyday world doesn't seem to produce them very often.

 

To awaken in the morning and know

there are a group of souls that wonder

about the same things I wonder about;

that there are souls that understand that the

Unexamined life is not worth living.

 

This alone has kept my head above water many times;

My ground.

Perhaps The Bums is far too important to me.

But the heavy change I sense in the community

Is one, I believe, to be unintentional.

 

The bickerers we can Unfollow.

Just a push of the button.

A 66 page thread of bickering is beyond ridiculous

And is nothing more than raging egos straining to

Overcome the others.

 

My sadness is as a result of something more subtle;

A result of Lack of Knowledge

And perhaps Too Much Time on their hands.

 

My heart is heavy because

I don't want to hurt anyone with my words.

But my own spirit must breathe out

One last whisper.

 

The ones I don't want to hurt

Are everywhere, on every thread.

The ones I don't want to hurt

Are beloved by all, including me.

 

The ones I don't want to hurt

Don't know what they are doing;

In their desire for participation

They throw wet blankets and boulders

Over creative thought.

 

The stifling is constant

And yet they are held in high regard.

I may well be a crazy one

Who needs boulders blocking my way

And who needs my thoughts to be stifled.

I can get out there; of this I am aware.

Perhaps boulders ground me

and this is why I remain here.

 

But after some years of this,

I hang on by merely a thread now.

My soul is weary

And the boulders seem more numerous now.

 

There is so much more than what is in front of our eyes.

Not everybody here sees this.

But because there are entities that do not see this

Their insistence that there is Nothing More

has become tedious to me.

 

As I'm sure that I have become tedious to them.

I have a knowledge borne of personal history that understands

That inner work must be done;

Our own motives must be examined

If we want any clarity at all.

 

(Thump! A boulder)

 

I have knowledge that knows that

Unseen forces can be tapped into

Because I've done it.

 

(Thump! a boulder)

 

I have knowledge that knows that

Somehow Love is the cohesion

that keeps everything moving toward

True North

 

(Thump! a boulder)

 

All I have is my own knowledge

Of my own inner understanding

And my own years of study and readings.

 

It all comes together,

Regardless of the path

And meets in the middle,

At the One.

 

(Thump! A boulder)

 

I am weary of dodging boulders

Thread after thread

Thrown by entities that I love

But who have no inner knowledge

And have no desire for their own growth.

 

Please understand that this is written with love

And an understanding that nobody is intending to

Throw boulders.

But the boulders litter our threads, they do.

 

I want so badly to remain

Part of this community.

But I feel the energy and the desire to do so

Lessening with each day.

 

I can only hope that those who would stifle

And proudly thwart any thought that isn't linear

Will recognize themselves;

and will open themselves up to a new way of thinking

Which doesn't require a staunch stance;

 

But rather, fluidity of thought

and open mindedness to that which

has not been experienced directly

in their own personal Histories.

[Rara]

Seeing TTBs members having such animosity towards each other. Yes I know that realistically of course it is going to happen, we have a few thousand members, and realistically it is amazing that we all get along as well as we do.

 

Still though, it saddens me that things are taken so personally, but also that things are directed so personally at times too.

 

I think that sometimes we grow angry at the person posting, instead of just being angry at what they post. I find this unfortunate. Btw, I am definitely not saying that I am immune to this, and I find it fortunate that I can take some time to calm down and think about what I'm going to write sometimes lol. I will also admit to having made a few long-term internet enemies over the years lol. (no not anyone on here).

 

I have also noticed that people tend to be quite different in PM or email, than when posting. They tend to be more respectful and just just plain nicer. This has made me think that this is likely the case with more people than just the few I have had the pleasure of getting to know better. It has helped me to be a little more understanding about members who's posts drive me up the wall.

 

I cannot think of any way to have all this happen less, and tbh it is just reality. We are a group of people who have strong opinions, think for ourselves and don't tend to follow the herd, even the TTBs herd .

 

It still does get to me sometimes though, especially in cases where I personally like both people who are trying to tear each other a new one.

 

I can only imagine how this would all go if we were ALL in person at the same place at the same time. I'm pretty sure we would get thrown out of the park or restaurant rather quickly .

 

Just some thoughts.

 

PS hats off to the mods/admin :>.

RE PMs...in general, yep. Though just had an exception to this rule thrown my way earlier!

[zerostao]

thank you manitou for the love you share here. i have always felt the sense of community here.

i know that many of us do.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I have had an odd thing happen too though... not sure if it is the path, the spirits I work with helping me learn, or some odd karma thing, but I have found that some of the folks who I previously felt were disrupting and perhaps even trolling threads, I have become friends with LOL. I find it quite humorous . It has also really helped me to expand my view of people as I get to know each person. Must be all those damn beers we've been having together, heh.

[Rara]

As of late,

My soul is saddened as well, BKA.

Not for exactly the same reason

But for one slightly different.

 

This forum for me has been

A lifeline of sorts;

Kindred spirits are so very difficult to find.

My everyday world doesn't seem to produce them very often.

 

To awaken in the morning and know

there are a group of souls that wonder

about the same things I wonder about;

that there are souls that understand that the

Unexamined life is not worth living.

 

This alone has kept my head above water many times;

My ground.

Perhaps The Bums is far too important to me.

But the heavy change I sense in the community

Is one, I believe, to be unintentional.

 

The bickerers we can Unfollow.

Just a push of the button.

A 66 page thread of bickering is beyond ridiculous

And is nothing more than raging egos straining to

Overcome the others.

 

My sadness is as a result of something more subtle;

A result of Lack of Knowledge

And perhaps Too Much Time on their hands.

 

My heart is heavy because

I don't want to hurt anyone with my words.

But my own spirit must breathe out

One last whisper.

 

The ones I don't want to hurt

Are everywhere, on every thread.

The ones I don't want to hurt

Are beloved by all, including me.

 

The ones I don't want to hurt

Don't know what they are doing;

In their desire for participation

They throw wet blankets and boulders

Over creative thought.

 

The stifling is constant

And yet they are held in high regard.

I may well be a crazy one

Who needs boulders blocking my way

And who needs my thoughts to be stifled.

I can get out there; of this I am aware.

Perhaps boulders ground me

and this is why I remain here.

 

But after some years of this,

I hang on by merely a thread now.

My soul is weary

And the boulders seem more numerous now.

 

There is so much more than what is in front of our eyes.

Not everybody here sees this.

But because there are entities that do not see this

Their insistence that there is Nothing More

has become tedious to me.

 

As I'm sure that I have become tedious to them.

I have a knowledge borne of personal history that understands

That inner work must be done;

Our own motives must be examined

If we want any clarity at all.

 

(Thump! A boulder)

 

I have knowledge that knows that

Unseen forces can be tapped into

Because I've done it.

 

(Thump! a boulder)

 

I have knowledge that knows that

Somehow Love is the cohesion

that keeps everything moving toward

True North

 

(Thump! a boulder)

 

All I have is my own knowledge

Of my own inner understanding

And my own years of study and readings.

 

It all comes together,

Regardless of the path

And meets in the middle,

At the One.

 

(Thump! A boulder)

 

I am weary of dodging boulders

Thread after thread

Thrown by entities that I love

But who have no inner knowledge

And have no desire for their own growth.

 

Please understand that this is written with love

And an understanding that nobody is intending to

Throw boulders.

But the boulders litter our threads, they do.

 

I want so badly to remain

Part of this community.

But I feel the energy and the desire to do so

Lessening with each day.

 

I can only hope that those who would stifle

And proudly thwart any thought that isn't linear

Will recognize themselves;

and will open themselves up to a new way of thinking

Which doesn't require a staunch stance;

 

But rather, fluidity of thought

and open mindedness to that which

has not been experienced directly

in their own personal Histories.

This is beautiful. But don't go anywhere! I and many others will support the love here!

[Marblehead]

Hi Manitou,

 

I was resisting posting to this thread because I didn't want to contradict the theme presented in the opening post as I am truely in disagreement with it.

 

Yes, there is bickering. That will be found even in the best of relationships. We don't all think alike and I believe it was meant to be that way even though I don't believe in such predetermined concepts.

 

I will continue being a boulder on your path. I will agree with you when I can but I will also disagree with you when I must.

 

The bickering of concepts is important in our life, I think. These bickerings cause us to think. They cause us to possibly reconsider our understandings. This is always good. True, we may not change any of our understandings but at least we have, during the bickering, had the chance to question our understandings.

 

The problem arises when the bickering becomes personal instead of staying with the concepts being discussed.

 

I know there are a lot of folks here who do not agree with many of my understandings. This must be because we all have had different life experiences. What we are at any given moment in time is a result of our life experiences. Each interaction with others has the capacity for altering our understandings. And this is always good. Even the bickering is good if it is not taken to a personal level.

 

And each of us here has our own limits as to what level of criticism we are capable of dealing with. Sometimes we read something directed toward us that was presented in what the presenter thought was a constructive manner but we read it as something distructive. This happens in 'real' life as well. This is why it is important to not take what other people say here personally even though it was very personal in its composition.

 

I personally think that this board is much more understanding and compassionate now than it was when I first joined. Back then personal insults were being thrown about intentionally all the time. This type of interaction has declined dramatically.

 

Another thing is that we need be selective as to which threads we are going to get involved in. If there are concepts that "get our goat" we should stay very clear of those threads. If we get involved all we are doing is asking for trouble.

 

And just a personal note to you personally, I enjoy our discussions even though we don't always agree. At least we are able to express our thoughts and understandings and that is always good.

[BaguaKicksAss]

As of late,

My soul is saddened as well, BKA.

Not for exactly the same reason

But for one slightly different.

 

This forum for me has been

A lifeline of sorts;

Kindred spirits are so very difficult to find.

My everyday world doesn't seem to produce them very often.

 

To awaken in the morning and know

there are a group of souls that wonder

about the same things I wonder about;

that there are souls that understand that the

Unexamined life is not worth living.

 

This alone has kept my head above water many times;

My ground.

Perhaps The Bums is far too important to me.

But the heavy change I sense in the community

Is one, I believe, to be unintentional.

 

The bickerers we can Unfollow.

Just a push of the button.

A 66 page thread of bickering is beyond ridiculous

And is nothing more than raging egos straining to

Overcome the others.

 

My sadness is as a result of something more subtle;

A result of Lack of Knowledge

And perhaps Too Much Time on their hands.

 

My heart is heavy because

I don't want to hurt anyone with my words.

But my own spirit must breathe out

One last whisper.

 

The ones I don't want to hurt

Are everywhere, on every thread.

The ones I don't want to hurt

Are beloved by all, including me.

 

The ones I don't want to hurt

Don't know what they are doing;

In their desire for participation

They throw wet blankets and boulders

Over creative thought.

 

The stifling is constant

And yet they are held in high regard.

I may well be a crazy one

Who needs boulders blocking my way

And who needs my thoughts to be stifled.

I can get out there; of this I am aware.

Perhaps boulders ground me

and this is why I remain here.

 

But after some years of this,

I hang on by merely a thread now.

My soul is weary

And the boulders seem more numerous now.

 

There is so much more than what is in front of our eyes.

Not everybody here sees this.

But because there are entities that do not see this

Their insistence that there is Nothing More

has become tedious to me.

 

As I'm sure that I have become tedious to them.

I have a knowledge borne of personal history that understands

That inner work must be done;

Our own motives must be examined

If we want any clarity at all.

 

(Thump! A boulder)

 

I have knowledge that knows that

Unseen forces can be tapped into

Because I've done it.

 

(Thump! a boulder)

 

I have knowledge that knows that

Somehow Love is the cohesion

that keeps everything moving toward

True North

 

(Thump! a boulder)

 

All I have is my own knowledge

Of my own inner understanding

And my own years of study and readings.

 

It all comes together,

Regardless of the path

And meets in the middle,

At the One.

 

(Thump! A boulder)

 

I am weary of dodging boulders

Thread after thread

Thrown by entities that I love

But who have no inner knowledge

And have no desire for their own growth.

 

Please understand that this is written with love

And an understanding that nobody is intending to

Throw boulders.

But the boulders litter our threads, they do.

 

I want so badly to remain

Part of this community.

But I feel the energy and the desire to do so

Lessening with each day.

 

I can only hope that those who would stifle

And proudly thwart any thought that isn't linear

Will recognize themselves;

and will open themselves up to a new way of thinking

Which doesn't require a staunch stance;

 

But rather, fluidity of thought

and open mindedness to that which

has not been experienced directly

in their own personal Histories.

 

I do hope you stick around, as I enjoy your deep and insightful posts . They help balance out.... some of the others.

 

I think though, that each person is expressing their own spiritual path, where they are at the time, and where they can get to. Though I also believe that such things (evolution, spirituality, enlightenment, and such) are not necessarily linear either .

[C T]

Though I also believe that such things (evolution, spirituality, enlightenment, and such) are not necessarily linear either .

Its definitely not linear, BKA. Linear progression involves much focus on content, which are all potentially *boulders*, as Manitou aptly metaphor'd. Whereas real spiritual progress deals more with context, and this is a good thing, because here there is room for soft adjustments, tunings and expansion.

[Marblehead]

I accept the validity of what you just said even though I do not hold to such understandings.

[yabyum24]

The stifling is constant

And yet they are held in high regard.

I can really relate to that. It's 99% of the reason I rarely do Buddhist boards these days. Too many self-important types strutting their stuff, rather than sharing any genuine experience.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I can really relate to that. It's 99% of the reason I rarely do Buddhist boards these days. Too many self-important types strutting their stuff, rather than sharing any genuine experience.

 

Uhm, uhm, uhm, but.... I know I'm looking at it from the outside, but, shouldn't that particular path curb that sort of thing?

 

Or I guess not everyone is adept level on their path...

[yabyum24]

Uhm, uhm, uhm, but.... I know I'm looking at it from the outside, but, shouldn't that particular path curb that sort of thing?

 

Or I guess not everyone is adept level on their path...

You'd think so, but there always seems to be a 'justification' for it.

[Rara]

 

Uhm, uhm, uhm, but.... I know I'm looking at it from the outside, but, shouldn't that particular path curb that sort of thing?

 

Or I guess not everyone is adept level on their path...

Exactly. I'm a training Taoist getting sucked into a lot of other stuff that is related to a load of other religions/spiritual traditions.

 

Like MH said though, I could be selective. It's just a shame that General Discussions trigger battles. At least there's the actual Taoist forum though...seems cleaner!

[Stosh]

Just my opinion here , but you are putting a finger on an idea which ,sort of, escapes many, the idea that things that one labels 'good' are just as problematic as those things they label "bad". If you werent concerned about the emotional contents from a good-bad dichotomy ,, then you would be finding things of interest coming up within the context of argument satisfying unalloyed.

 

This forum, any forum , is a fishbowl into which siamese fighting fish are tossed together.. expecting them not to go for one another is not really a reasonable expectation unless one side or both are hampered.

There is a tension inherent to the situation.

 

As I look at it from that perspective, folks here are extraordinarily ! tolerant and self moderating. Other belief centered forums I have seen are either so strictly regulated nobody feels allowed to say a discouraging word , or so empty that weeks go by before posts are responded to Or are so restricted to folks of similar beliefs that differences are nonexistent or smothered.

 

Not everyone is cut out to float around delicately harmonizing and retreating fearfully from the crushing emotional upset they would suffer if they were to witness conflict. Some can find peace within themselves when they are in the middle of the storm, and some are slowly learning that the storms arent all they seemed cracked up to be.

 

I would estimate that 99 percent of everything thats said here, has close to zero impact ,as a "lesson learned" whether its on basic advice on a life issue or some philosophic insight.. despite the claims of folks who want to say they have learned so many useful things ! IMO thats Bullshit- because they look for data that is consistent with whatever they already do or think ,, NOT study that which contradicts their errors. Like the debunking thread , for instance, who there, is going to slap their forehead after some lengthly post and exclaim " Holy COW , all this time I've been wrong! This is going to change my life forever! " ?

 

No , the only things anyone is going to LEARN here really is the stuff that is subliminal , how to get along , how to question themselves , and that there are other opinions out there in the world not held by- "only the foolish" though they arent our own.

And thats all just my opinion.

Carry on.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Thank you for that Stosh, very true, and very good points.

[johndoe2012]

Do the inner work, only speak from personal experience, ignore urges to quote teachers and books, then the flamewars would die out quickly.

[Infinity]

Been reading a few Tai Chi Chaun books recently and they say that we should Invest in loss. Little loss little gain, big loss big gain, softness is strength.

 

If people could see their arguments for what they are mind/ego battles would they still persist? Does not reinforcing our position of who we are define us further and thus limit us and seperate us from our goal. What we want from this forum is knowledge to see the limitless and undefinable is it not, and thus petty ego arguments expose our lack?

 

Maybe a gentle reminder to the perpertrators of these arguments that they may think thay have won but in fact they have lost may help them see the light. Cutting others heads of does not make us taller.

 

Love what Chris d just said "Do the inner work, only speak from personal experience, ignore urges to quote teachers and books, then the flamewars would die out quickly."

 

Walk the path... And as Ghandi said "be the change you want to see in the world"

 

∞