Fuck karma

[RongzomFan]

Bardo of dharmata is the famed sound, light and rays after you die

[Marblehead]

The way of Dao is the way of remembering, always.

I like that!

[yabyum24]

My 'take' on it is a bit different. The whole cause & effect scenario doesn't explain it enough.

 

Why are we here in the first place? I'm certain we arise because we desire life. Any life at all.

 

Think about the worst life you can imagine - a wretched kind of existence. Even that is better than nothing and we fear 'nothing'.

 

Desire for nutriment (not extinction), to feast at the table of the senses - to lick honey off the razor's edge.

[Marblehead]

Hi Yabyum24,

 

Even though that is far removed from my beliefs I still like what you said and how you said it.

[Wells]

The way of Dao is the way of remembering, always.

 

The Taoist does NOT follow the Tao!

The Taoist

gains knowledge about the way things go (Tao): From seed to roots to trunk to branches to fruits

and then

goes this way IN REVERSE to gain immortality and to avoid destruction.

Therefore, the taoist practice is called THE WAY OF RETURN!

 

=> Everything in this world follows the Tao except the Taoist.

Edited December 11, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Marblehead]

Excuse me, but the Taoist does NOT follow the Tao!

The Taoist

gains knowledge about the way that things go (Tao): Which is kinda from seed to root to trunk to branches to fruits

and then

goes this way IN REVERSE to gain immortality and to avoid destruction.

Therefore, the taoist practice (Taoist Alchemy) is THE WAY OF RETURN!

Picky, picky, picky. Hehehe.

 

But you are correct, from your point of view.

[RongzomFan]

Why are we here in the first place?

 

We are incarnations of ignorance. Nothing more.

[silent thunder]

ripples on the river...

illusions and filters...

 

humans seem to operate on two misguided principles that:

A:) we perceive the world as it is... and

B:) we understand what we perceive

 

Not much for grasping these days: at ideas, beliefs or dogma

Rather I let go, release and become fully engaged now.

[RongzomFan]

http://books.google.com/books?id=spQl_ZtKapYC&pg=PA48&dq=Because+of+karma,+if+you+find+the+wisdom+lights+irritating+and+terrifying&hl=en&sa=X&ei=kfaoUo6VLsyskAfPgIG4Cg&ved=0CDIQuwUwAA#v=onepage&q=Because%20of%20karma%2C%20if%20you%20find%20the%20wisdom%20lights%20irritating%20and%20terrifying&f=false

"Because of karma, if you find the wisdom lights irritating and terrifying..."

[BaguaKicksAss]

.

[RongzomFan]

48

[BaguaKicksAss]

Found it thanks .

[NotVoid]

I am inclined to think that anything that helps to keep a person on a better track can not really be so bad.

More important than that however, It seems conceivable to me that the biggest mistake a person can

make is to think that they actually know something.

[yabyum24]

"Because of karma, if you find the wisdom lights irritating and terrifying..."

Interesting link. I always ask myself, though, how would a being recall that information when in the bardo, especially If he/she can't even attain lucid dreams and maintain awareness during passage into sleep.

[hagar]

Everything is karma: if it has a beginning and an end.

 

Now, what remains is the rest, which is the important stuff. Problem is, you can´t say anything about the rest.

[C T]

Interesting link. I always ask myself, though, how would a being recall that information when in the bardo, especially If he/she can't even attain lucid dreams and maintain awareness during passage into sleep.

As final consciousness wanes, all the stored memories rises to the surface without much resistance. This brings with it a sudden overload of information, enough to cause immense confusion to propel the dying mind to seek comfort in another rebirth, and the habit of grasping then drives the subtle mind to grab immediately at anything which resembles a womb.

 

 

This is what i have personally investigated during meditative absorption, quite similar to this exercise:

 

Edited December 12, 2013 by C T

[BaguaKicksAss]

Interesting link. I always ask myself, though, how would a being recall that information when in the bardo, especially If he/she can't even attain lucid dreams and maintain awareness during passage into sleep.

 

Most practitioners lucid dream though right? Or you probably mean all night every night sort of thing?

[BaguaKicksAss]

As final consciousness wanes, all the stored memories rises to the surface without much resistance. This brings with it a sudden overload of information, enough to cause immense confusion to propel the dying mind to seek comfort in another rebirth, and the habit of grasping then drives the subtle mind to grab immediately at anything which resembles a womb.

 

 

This is what i have personally investigated during meditative absorption, quite similar to this exercise:

 

Looking back, I have this odd memory of nothing, no light, no consciousness, no thought, no energies, no me, no nothing else, no feelings or perceptions. It lasted quite some time. Yet completely different than those whole merge with the universe/nothingness/dissolve myself sort of thing meditations.

[Thunder_Gooch]

 

So as you and I are having a conversation, there are an entire heap of you, and an entire heap of me and swapping out?

 

 

 

 

Pretend the multiverse is static, unmoving, unchanging.

 

What is moving is your consciousness, like a pulse of energy moving through a wire.

 

As time progresses reality around you isn't what's moving, you are.

 

In front of and behind you and in every other possible direction there are other mindstreams all who believe themselves to be you and in fact they have as much claim to that title as you do.

 

None of them however have bodies, they only have the experience of having a body which isn't the same thing.

 

As you make choices you navigate between realities, if you are speaking with another person, you will not be speaking to just one person, you will be moving past an infinite number of mindstreams each of them believing they are that person.

 

At each moment in time and space for which there is an observer it is populated by mindstream as real as your own.

 

I wouldn't call it swapping out, so much as it's just your movement through time and space.

[Thunder_Gooch]

OK soooooo, how does that work for folks who take the immortality path and actually manage it? Can they not manage it unless all the debts are paid before death (this seems to follow the thinking of some writings), or is it more like your first however many years of it is paying those off, or more like you don't ever pay them off? As I seem to have experienced, karma gets paid off all the time, day to day, in this lifetime (or perhaps that is just that spell I did regarding karma here and now instead of later which I didn't put enough pre-thought into?)

I've never met a level 72, but I would assume that the rules of the game no longer apply at that point. Kind of going from being a customer at a casino, to the owner of a casino.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I've never met a level 72, but I would assume that the rules of the game no longer apply at that point. Kind of going from being a customer at a casino, to the owner of a casino.

 

Nice that you used a casino in the analogy .

 

I say this because I personally feel that there are much randomness as well in things, luck, chance. Likely not what you were getting at, but works for me. Hmmm the house always wins in the end analogy I don't like so much though, heh.

[Thunder_Gooch]

Or how about all the people I have loved (wondering with your wording if emotion is relevant here or not?) but that we just lost contact with each other over time.

All possible realities (and people therein) exist already, even though you've moved to a new location those old locations you were once in still exist and are still actively populated by mindstreams as real as yours.

 

For instance remember 5 years ago, the BKK of 5 years ago is still there in that cafe having mint mocha and biscotti (or whatever), and that experience is being lived by a mindstream just as real as your own. The same goes for each choice and path you could have made in life. All are populated by mindstreams as real as your own.

 

So in that sense the people you know that died are still living, it's hard to say in regards to the actual mindstreams however as you interact with infinite numbers of them as time for you progresses.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Pretend the multiverse is static, unmoving, unchanging.

 

What is moving is your consciousness, like a pulse of energy moving through a wire.

 

As time progresses reality around you isn't what's moving, you are.

 

That is pretty awesome! I know what I'm going to be exploring/meditating on this evening now .

 

In front of and behind you and in every other possible direction there are other mindstreams all who believe themselves to be you and in fact they have as much claim to that title as you do.

 

None of them however have bodies, they only have the experience of having a body which isn't the same thing.

 

What would happen if I were to merge them/us all into one? Or perhaps get rid of all the ones which were leading crappy "lives"?

 

 

As you make choices you navigate between realities, if you are speaking with another person, you will not be speaking to just one person, you will be moving past an infinite number of mindstreams each of them believing they are that person.

 

At each moment in time and space for which there is an observer it is populated by mindstream as real as your own.

 

I wouldn't call it swapping out, so much as it's just your movement through time and space.

 

I'm gonna go chat with the MPG that's level 72 for a bit now, cya .

 

So each second is one of the MPG's mindstreams, or 1000 MPG mindstreams all at once?

 

And all the others reading this thread right now?

[BaguaKicksAss]

10 billion BKAs creating karma in 10 billion different periods of "time" and "places". I'm screwed .

[Thunder_Gooch]

10 billion BKAs creating karma in 10 billion different periods of "time" and "places". I'm screwed .

I think perhaps you are only bound by the actions of your own mindstream.