RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 Yeah but you shouldn't be making stuff up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Yeah but you shouldn't be making stuff up. Â I repeat: The 12 links collapses without karma. Â Karma is volition. The 12 links is supported by nothing other than volition. Â Dig? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 I kid you not, Mr Rongzom's Fan. Here, look.. look..... look at the flow chart, and see what's stated just after Ignorance: Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Nid%C4%81nas Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 (edited) I kid you not, Mr Rongzom's Fan. Here, look.. look..... look at the flow chart, and see what's stated just after Ignorance: Â http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve_Nid%C4%81nas Unreferenced sentences on Wikipedia mean nothing. Â And there is no reference to Karma right after Ignorance in the flowchart. Â Edited December 14, 2013 by RongzomFan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 Â I repeat: The 12 links collapses without karma. Â Karma is volition. The 12 links is supported by nothing other than volition. Â Dig? Karma means action. Hence Karmamudra. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Did you comprehend that? Â Then go further down, and see what comes after 'Clinging'. Â Novel, aint it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Unreferenced sentences on Wikipedia mean nothing. You are joking, right? Â We must be talking about 2 different '12 Links' then. Â Goodbye. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 You are joking, right? If you are going by unreferenced sentences on Wikipedia, you got nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 If you are going by unreferenced sentences on Wikipedia, you got nothing. so, lets go by your approved version. Â Link? 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 ps - make sure its approved by Malcolm, ok? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 Why don't you try citing a book, like I do all the time? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted December 14, 2013 i apologise, BKA, for being impulsive. Â i was merely responding to Alwayson's inaccurate assertion. Â Sorry for derailing your thread with jargon. Â Â Really I meant it though, I want to know what you guys are talking about so I can join in the debate :>. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Why don't you try citing a book, like I do all the time? I like you, but you can be so very exasperating at times. Do you even realise this? Â Which of your books would give a different '12 links', i wonder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 Â Â Really I meant it though, I want to know what you guys are talking about so I can join in the debate :>. I'm just saying karma is not one of the 12 links of dependent origination. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 I like you, but you can be so very exasperating at times. Do you even realise this? Â Which of your books would give a different '12 links', i wonder. Karma is not one of the 12 links of dependent origination. Â Just give it up. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Â Really I meant it though, I want to know what you guys are talking about so I can join in the debate :>. You might find this http://www.berzinarchives.com/web/en/archives/sutra/level2_lamrim/intermediate_scope/twelve_links_dependent_arising/twelve_links_01.html either very interesting or utterly baffling, but this article goes some way to explain the basis of the Twelve Links of Dependent Arising. The point most relevant to this discussion with Rongzom Fan is found under the section The First Link: Unawareness. If you consider deeply what the author wrote, then you will get a better picture of what is being debated here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Karma is not one of the 12 links of dependent origination. Â Just give it up. Maybe not your karma, but the one expounded in all of the Buddhist doctrines definitely is. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BaguaKicksAss Posted December 14, 2013 If y'all had just used the word unawareness.... . Darn words in other languages get me everytime lol. Â But there are 12, and now we are down to one? Â This conversation is very humbling for me ROFL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 Maybe not your karma, but the one expounded in all of the Buddhist doctrines definitely is. Which of the 12 links of dependent origination is karma? Â And where is your book? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 If y'all had just used the word unawareness.... . Darn words in other languages get me everytime lol. Â But there are 12, and now we are down to one? Â This conversation is very humbling for me ROFL. That one is the one which sets off the whole chain. Its very crucial to understand that one. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Which of the 12 links of dependent origination is karma? Â And where is your book? Where is your version of the 12 links? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 Where is your version of the 12 links? Is there more than one version?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 sorry, but i have to leave. its 6 am here, and time to go practice. See you later, alligator. Â back in a few hours. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
C T Posted December 14, 2013 Is there more than one version?? you are the one who keeps implying that there is. Â Ciao, bay bee! catch yas later, alligator! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RongzomFan Posted December 14, 2013 you are the one who keeps implying that there is. Â Â All I said was stop using Wikipedia Share this post Link to post Share on other sites