Dealing with Trolls, Petty Tyrants and Socially Inept Posters

[Mal]

its just too simple to 'just not respond' if something deteriorates that far

What if there was also the option of asking that person to continue elsewhere?

I wish I could at least be a tyrant on my own threads to the invulnerable ones. That would be cool.

[Stosh]

What if there was also the option of asking that person to continue elsewhere?

Well, that would be an option,

Along those lines though, Im thinking Lao suggests that instead of taking the active path of interfering , or pushing another person off ones turf, (even gently ),

One can opt to instead control themself , or to set up a scenario where the disturber just decides to go on thier own. To lead not by decree ,but by setting up the scene so a happy result is found by all.

 

The descision about asking someone else to leave, rather than leave onesself , is usually made on a basis of thinking oneself in the "right" as in ' Im here nicely minding my own business and this jerk shows up and bothers me so its all their fault' Isnt it ?

But that thinking implies that there is a "right" and a "wrong" and a self fulfilling judgement that one is in the "right".

The usual reaction t this last idea is that a person says "But I am Right arent I !"

 

 

Its often the idea that one is "right" which puts folks at odds rather than accepting one anothers sentiments as equally plausible.

If a person calls me a headstrong moron , and I entertain that it could fairly be seen to be true,( or illusory) at the same time .. well Im exhibiting humility , acceptance of both me and him , tolerance , and we arent really in conflict ( on my part). And I can do that all on my own without having to push back.

 

Im just saying this is the angle of A solution of the situation described , not neccesarily the easy solution, nor the only one.

Of course there is the other option of bringing all ones force to bear and retaliate overwhelmingly

Edited December 17, 2013 by Stosh

[Marblehead]

Don't feed the trolls.

 

(I am already 10 pounds over-weight.)

[deci belle]

Look at the king of the trolls with his new clothes!! This one doesn't feed them— he FEEDS off of them.

 

Let's call this one Jabba the Glut. It's 20,070 little happy-meals for the king, and counting!!

[Stosh]

..Said the petty tyrant to the socially inept poster..

[Marblehead]

All views are subjective and relative.

[Rara]

Been giving this some thought and I think that the "Opt out" option as Stosh mentioned is very good for one's own sanity.

 

Is patience really a virtue? Is endurance really necessary if we have the option NOT to put ourselves through it?

 

Surely endurance should be trained willingly in moderation, in order to prepare for times when we have no choice but to endure. But in a forum where trolls/tyrants spring up left right and centre, this could REALLY test one's patience...

 

I already feel that I endure enough in life. If we come to this forum to discuss philosophy in a mature setting, away from work and whatever other challenges ife brings, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure I'd be more comfortable if pests were just shut out by the community. Or ignored!

Edited December 18, 2013 by Rara

[Stosh]

Been giving this some thought and I think that the "Opt out" option as Stosh mentioned is very good for one's own sanity.

 

Is patience really a virtue? Is endurance really necessary if we have the option NOT to put ourselves through it?

 

Surely endurance should be trained willingly in moderation, in order to prepare for times when we have no choice but to endure. But in a forum where trolls/tyrants spring up left right and centre, this could REALLY test one's patience...

 

I already feel that I endure enough in life. If we come to this forum to discuss philosophy in a mature setting, away from work and whatever other challenges ife brings, I don't know about anyone else, but I'm sure I'd be more comfortable if pests were just shut out by the community. Or ignored!

This is clearly just my opinion , Rara ,, but there is no such thing as having 'a' virtue.

One can pick the expedient thing for a given circumstance , and that crowns the trait as a virtue for that situation.

Being tall is a virtue in basketball, but for a 'tunnel rat' its a problem, bravery can be a virtue if you can win ,but if you get killed, the wise thing to do would have been to back-off and fight another day. And so it goes for all those things.

Looking to nature, animals are not all programmed to have any given thing as a 'virtue' which covers all types. A lion with a giraffes neck would find it a liability. A giant eight foot ant wouldn't be able to stand or respire.

What animals ( and humans) have is a basic design which they individually average around,, because it suits the circumstances they find themselves in ,,if you put them on an island and the situation is changed , they tend to get extra big or extra small.

 

Accepting ones flaws shortcomings etc,, as we see them, is difficult ,, no doubt about it,, but if you can ,, then its not endurance anymore. If someone calls me "brown-eyes" it just wouldnt bother me except to the extent that it indicates some sort of stupid attack or threat to me, which I should pay some attention.

 

You can choose shut out those you see as pests , because it certainly would reduce stress levels for you, but that isnt spiritual growth ,now, is it? But you can figure out for yourself the advantages and disadvantages of retreat or approach that will set a behavioral paradigm for the rest of your life.

[Marblehead]

Hi Rara,

 

I need to speak to one concept from your above post. I have wanted to say this for some time but have never felt the timing was right. I think that in this thread, at this point in time, and as the concept was presented, it is now a good time.

 

"... but I'm sure I'd be more comfortable if pests were just shut out ..."

 

This would be counter to Taoist teachings. This, of course, is referring to banning people from the forum. Tao does not ban anyone.

 

However, suspensions are within the concepts of Taoism. A Master will send a potential student away until that stuedent is ready to learn. Happens all the time. The Tao is impartial so we cannot speak to that. When the student returns after being sent away but is still not ready to learn they will be sent away for a longer period of time.

 

Here on this board a mamber is sent away for a period of time and when the member returns but is still not ready to communicate in an acceptable manner they would be sent away for a longer period of time. Each sending away would consist of a longer period of being sent away. This way the member always has the opportunity to make changes and comply with standards.

 

There. I have said that, for whatever it is worth.

[Stosh]

Hi Rara,

 

I need to speak to one concept from your above post. I have wanted to say this for some time but have never felt the timing was right. I think that in this thread, at this point in time, and as the concept was presented, it is now a good time.

 

"... but I'm sure I'd be more comfortable if pests were just shut out ..."

 

This would be counter to Taoist teachings. This, of course, is referring to banning people from the forum. Tao does not ban anyone.

 

However, suspensions are within the concepts of Taoism. A Master will send a potential student away until that stuedent is ready to learn. Happens all the time. The Tao is impartial so we cannot speak to that. When the student returns after being sent away but is still not ready to learn they will be sent away for a longer period of time.

 

Here on this board a mamber is sent away for a period of time and when the member returns but is still not ready to communicate in an acceptable manner they would be sent away for a longer period of time. Each sending away would consist of a longer period of being sent away. This way the member always has the opportunity to make changes and comply with standards.

 

There. I have said that, for whatever it is worth.

Im sure there are times when such an approach is appropriate, so I hope you arent put off buy my "rebuttal" here, but ,,

Look at the military or most parents or religious institutions ,clearly they dont toss you out if you decide you dont want to comply with every dictate unquestioningly ,prison recidivism rates are very high,

Most of the folks who have been suspended from here, seem to repeat rather than "change their evil ways"

Cheaters cheat and wife beaters beat , and a 'time-out' makes no difference.

 

Admittedly ,, I dont know the stats.

 

But that "Master" who sends a potential student away, is just abdicating beginning the teachings at a lower level- to the random vagaries of chance,, and pretty much strikes me as irresponsible and impatient so wouldnt call him one. He's just 'some dude'.

 

A true teacher leads and is invested in his student rather than dismiss and tell 'em go away till you're ready to suck up. I just dont see it as teaching if one expects the material to already be mastered.

 

But yeah thats just opinion and Im not applying it to all situations.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Stosh

[BaguaKicksAss]

The folks who just receive a few day (or week) suspension, then settle out after that aren't as obvious I think is all it is. The ones who come back with the same posting style, we are reminded of and they are more obvious.

 

I've been really impressed more than once at the change in approach by some folks :wub:

[Stosh]

The folks who just receive a few day (or week) suspension, then settle out after that aren't as obvious I think is all it is. The ones who come back with the same posting style, we are reminded of and they are more obvious.

 

I've been really impressed more than once at the change in approach by some folks :wub:

Like, who?

[Marblehead]

But yeah thats just opinion and Im not applying it to all situations.

Fair that there are rebuttals to what I posted.

 

Of course, we are obviously in disagreement on the subject but that's okay.

[ChiDragon]

Hi Rara,

 

I need to speak to one concept from your above post. I have wanted to say this for some time but have never felt the timing was right. I think that in this thread, at this point in time, and as the concept was presented, it is now a good time.

This would be counter to Taoist teachings. This, of course, is referring to banning people from the forum. Tao does not ban anyone.

 

However, suspensions are within the concepts of Taoism. A Master will send a potential student away until that stuedent is ready to learn. Happens all the time. The Tao is impartial so we cannot speak to that. When the student returns after being sent away but is still not ready to learn they will be sent away for a longer period of time.

 

Nice try, MH....

 

Sorry! A sage has no mercy and treats all as straws. As soon one had committed to be a Taoist, one's cultivation starts on day one. There is no canon should/will be broken. Another words, there is no disciplinary action was required for a Taoist.

[Marblehead]

Well, that's only two of you who have disagreed with me so far. That's not all that bad.

 

(It could get worse though. Hehehe.)

[Stosh]

We can work on it.

are all masters supposed to be sages?

Edited December 18, 2013 by Stosh

[ChiDragon]

We can work on it.

are all masters supposed to be sages?

Not really!

[Stosh]

That gives Mh an "out" doesnt it ?

And since a sage has no mercy nor need to abide by societal rules of responsibility ..

Im thinking he wouldnt train anybody in the first place ,

and even if he did, wouldnt have to stick with the plan.

Hence , useless and unexploitable.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Stosh

[BaguaKicksAss]

Taoist teachers will sometimes let students go for behavior which does not suit the path. Not right away or anything, but they will.

[Stosh]

No doubt .but that is either giving up or punishment.. is it not?

Say a kid misbehaves in math class.

The teacher has him suspended..

Well that kid is now missing instructions ..being punished

If the parents don't care, the kid gets a day off..he still isn't becoming proficient.

If the parents ground the kid , he still isn't learning math,

he is however learning the repercussions of his behavior.

But that isn't learning math proficiency nor is it learning to appreciate math.

After the suspension he may behave better , but still the only way

That he is going to learn to appreciate the material , is to study it and get proficient..

His attitude about the material itself isn't changed by the punishment.

Likewise when Judo was suspended , he came back with a desire to instead prove that it wasn't going to change his attitudes . To me it appears that a majority of suspensions just lead to abandoning the unpleasant experience permanently. For others , who were just testing boundaries , I suppose they would modify to fit them ...but the suspension itself was not shedding any light on spiritual matters ..just the practical matter of avoiding suspension again.

Like I said ..I don't have the stats..

But its already a common point that one learns by doing the things they are learning..not by not doing them.

 

 

[Mal]

Say a kid misbehaves in math class. The teacher has him suspended..

The teacher has a duty of care to the other people in the class. How can they learn if one persons misbehavior is taking all the teachers time and resources?

 

You asked who has changed? - I won't name them but I know a few current members who have drastically changed their behavior after suspensions

 

But suspension is a poor way to change behavior because it's a punishment (A Negative punishment taking away something desirable - access to TTB)

 

What could be a positive reinforcer of good behavior?

[Marblehead]

Not really!

Agree.

[Marblehead]

The teacher has a duty of care to the other people in the class. How can they learn if one persons misbehavior is taking all the teachers time and resources?

 

You asked who has changed? - I won't name them but I know a few current members who have drastically changed their behavior after suspensions

 

But suspension is a poor way to change behavior because it's a punishment (A Negative punishment taking away something desirable - access to TTB)

 

What could be a positive reinforcer of good behavior?

Yes. That's the challenge of moderation, isn't it?

 

Conditions must be maintained so that the members have an enjoyable experience when visiting the forum. A misbehaving member distracts from this enjoyable experience.

 

There is a Chuang Tzu story where a Master had to tell one of his students that the student needed to find another Master because he (the Master) did not have the abilities to teach the student.

 

I agree, suspension is a punishment and not always effective. But then, positive reinforcement isn't always effective either.

 

The "Like" button is a nice positive reinforcer.

[chegg]

Yes. That's the challenge of moderation, isn't it?

 

Conditions must be maintained so that the members have an enjoyable experience when visiting the forum. A misbehaving member distracts from this enjoyable experience.

 

There is a Chuang Tzu story where a Master had to tell one of his students that the student needed to find another Master because he (the Master) did not have the abilities to teach the student.

 

I agree, suspension is a punishment and not always effective. But then, positive reinforcement isn't always effective either.

 

The "Like" button is a nice positive reinforcer.

 

I've noticed the "Like" button has more of an affect on users than just positive reinforcement. It tends to energize the user, give them confidence (sometimes an inflated confidence) then they start posting even more than they normally would. Sometimes they get cocky, over confident and eventually slip-up, post some nonsense, get flamed and go and hide away for a few days until they build up enough courage to come back and post some more.

 

Getting accolades from the "Like" button = Ego's best friend

 

 

edit: I just noticed i pressed the "Like" button on my own post. ROFL

 

 

Blessings

Edited December 19, 2013 by chegg

[Stosh]

The teacher has a duty of care to the other people in the class. How can they learn if one persons misbehavior is taking all the teachers time and resources?

No doubt.

 

 

You asked who has changed? - I won't name them but I know a few current members who have drastically changed their behavior after suspensions

 

Fine , I never said it couldnt happen , go back and read it if you doubt me ,, but as you would already be aware, that

' the fact that there are outliers doesnt contradict the bell curve'' ,,Whats the ratio then , a rough ratio would suffice if

accompanied with just your assertion that you feel it to be reasonably accurate.

Thing is < I figure that one doesnt want to name them because they figure the subject would be embarrassed at having been spanked into compliance..in contrast, lots of flolks readily admit their foibles.. so Im thinking its not the misbehavior that they are uncomfortable with its the forced concession to punishment , so the embarrassment is due to- not really accepting the admonishment . Therefore all they learned were the boundaries - not the subject matter.

Admittedly thats a bit speculative , but it seems reasonable and soul searching might support it.

 

 

 

But suspension is a poor way to change behavior because it's a punishment (A Negative punishment taking away something desirable - access to TTB)

 

What could be a positive reinforcer of good behavior?

The like button , and the interaction with -and response of -people who havent blocked them out. ( either mechanically or emotionally)

 

Its all around if one can reach out and grab it ,

its just that it is sometimes hard to

Overcome who it is one believes they are

Overcome the ideas that makes them say what they are saying ineffectively

and

Comes to accept that which others are..

it takes a while.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Stosh