mindfulness

[fatherpaul]

this thing, what is it?

perhaps more of a bhuddist (zen) idea than taoist

 

but i am curious to know

what the bums have to say about this.

 

 

it seems that mindfulness means

you(?) are in constant relationship with all that is

is such a thing even possible?

[Cameron]

During satsang last weekend I kept trying to fill truth "what is" with concepts. "So it's like acceptance of everything", "It's this..it's that..blah,blah,blah".

 

My teacher said "Not even that". My ego was squirming. And that's exactly what I wanted.

[fatherpaul]

During satsang last weekend I kept trying to fill truth "what is" with concepts. "So it's like acceptance of everything", "It's this..it's that..blah,blah,blah".

 

My teacher said "Not even that". My ego was squirming. And that's exactly what I wanted.

 

 

yes

 

 

it seems sometimes we must push ourselves into a corner to discover something new

[Trunk]

it's what you're talking about all the time,

and why you say so little

[mYTHmAKER]

Mindfullness

Being aware of your actions

and of others

and

being aware of where your mind is

and of others

[fatherpaul]

i was reading the ttc (thomas cleary 1991, The essential tao)

 

49.

"sages have no fixed mind,

they make the minds of the people their mind:

they improve the good,

and also improve those who are not good:

that vitue is good.

they make sure of the true,

and they make sure of the untrue too:

that virtue is sure.

the relation of the sages to the world

is one of concern:

they cloud their minds for the world:

all people pour into their ears and eyes,

and sages render them innocent"

 

this seems to speak of "mindfulness"

the insight into the nature of the mind

seems apparent, "they have no fixed mind"

the responsive reaction to all of life "mindfulness"

seems to be said "they cloud their minds for the world"

 

 

it is but a flirting question

perhaps it has some value

 

peace and happy pancakes,

paul

[林愛偉]

i was reading the ttc (thomas cleary 1991, The essential tao)

 

49.

"sages have no fixed mind,

they make the minds of the people their mind:

they improve the good,

and also improve those who are not good:

that vitue is good.

they make sure of the true,

and they make sure of the untrue too:

that virtue is sure.

the relation of the sages to the world

is one of concern:

they cloud their minds for the world:

all people pour into their ears and eyes,

and sages render them innocent"

 

this seems to speak of "mindfulness"

the insight into the nature of the mind

seems apparent, "they have no fixed mind"

the responsive reaction to all of life "mindfulness"

seems to be said "they cloud their minds for the world"

it is but a flirting question

perhaps it has some value

 

peace and happy pancakes,

paul

 

 

Hi Paul,

 

THe verse above is about the non dual mind. Attaining a non dual mind will result in all

people's minds being yours because ther eis no separation. The clouding their minds for the world is

an analogy for the defilements of the mind. To havea defiled mind is to have causes and outcomes which keep you here in form. It is saying that he sages take also use the conditions of the world inorder to be in the world for people.

Being mindful doesnt mean to always keep in mind all things, it means to be without attachments to all things. This is nondiscriminative mind. This non discriminative mind is just the non dual mind. If there is no duality, there is no separation. If there is no separation, then all things are one.

 

If there is distinction of this and that, then there is two. And from that distiction, the two create the next outcome...three...and from that the myriad things.. right?

So, the void actually is not empty, but holds all things.. and since it is vast, and unending to an extent, all things are really not distinguished within the void. Vast emptiness is only emptiness when there is a distinction of form. No form, no emptiness, no emptiness no form. To distinguish one is to recognize another.

To be mindful is to neither distinguish nor have the thought of not distinguishing all things.

 

Peace and Happiness Brother,

Aiwei

[xenolith]

Mindfulness:

 

Freedom from satisfaction and discontent with respect to bodily conditions ranging from joy to misery...while accepting of the real and the unreal...and aware of when which applies.

 

Love.

 

xeno

[fatherpaul]

Hi Paul,

 

THe verse above is about the non dual mind. Attaining a non dual mind will result in all

people's minds being yours because ther eis no separation. The clouding their minds for the world is

an analogy for the defilements of the mind. To havea defiled mind is to have causes and outcomes which keep you here in form. It is saying that he sages take also use the conditions of the world inorder to be in the world for people.

Being mindful doesnt mean to always keep in mind all things, it means to be without attachments to all things. This is nondiscriminative mind. This non discriminative mind is just the non dual mind. If there is no duality, there is no separation. If there is no separation, then all things are one.

 

If there is distinction of this and that, then there is two. And from that distiction, the two create the next outcome...three...and from that the myriad things.. right?

So, the void actually is not empty, but holds all things.. and since it is vast, and unending to an extent, all things are really not distinguished within the void. Vast emptiness is only emptiness when there is a distinction of form. No form, no emptiness, no emptiness no form. To distinguish one is to recognize another.

To be mindful is to neither distinguish nor have the thought of not distinguishing all things.

 

Peace and Happiness Brother,

Aiwei

 

yes

it is so for this one

[beancurdturtle]

Hi Paul,

 

THe verse above is about the non dual mind. Attaining a non dual mind will result in all

people's minds being yours because ther eis no separation. The clouding their minds for the world is

an analogy for the defilements of the mind. To havea defiled mind is to have causes and outcomes which keep you here in form. It is saying that he sages take also use the conditions of the world inorder to be in the world for people.

Being mindful doesnt mean to always keep in mind all things, it means to be without attachments to all things. This is nondiscriminative mind. This non discriminative mind is just the non dual mind. If there is no duality, there is no separation. If there is no separation, then all things are one.

 

If there is distinction of this and that, then there is two. And from that distiction, the two create the next outcome...three...and from that the myriad things.. right?

So, the void actually is not empty, but holds all things.. and since it is vast, and unending to an extent, all things are really not distinguished within the void. Vast emptiness is only emptiness when there is a distinction of form. No form, no emptiness, no emptiness no form. To distinguish one is to recognize another.

To be mindful is to neither distinguish nor have the thought of not distinguishing all things.

 

Peace and Happiness Brother,

Aiwei

Well said.

[mat black]

if mind in this context is considered another term for our 'being', (rather than the modern western notion of mere intellect alone) then:

 

mindful = every facet of ones' being fully aware in the present moment.

 

the full mind = entire mind

 

if our mind is not here now, we are not aware of our entire being now.

 

to me, mindfullness allows for awareness and integration of ones' being

 

In the material world, forms manifest in a variety of ways - all originating from the one undivided source.

 

to view worldy manifestations as inherintly 'good, 'bad', right wrong is an investment in duality. liking this, hating that, judjing this judjing that, the mind splits in two, it 's no longer 'full'

 

Also, as Aiwei says, if the mind is full (mindfullness) then there is no discrimination, as a full mind (a limitless mind) is all encompassing.

 

Didn't some master say ' before, I was in the world, now that I am awake, the world is in me' ?

 

 

just my 2 cents.......(give or take, allowing for currency conversions )

Edited June 21, 2007 by mat black

[林愛偉]

if mind in this context is considered another term for our 'being', (rather than the modern western notion of mere intellect alone) then:

 

mindful = every facet of ones' being fully aware in the present moment.

 

the full mind = entire mind

 

if our mind is not here now, we are not aware of our entire being now.

 

to me, mindfullness allows for awareness and integration of ones' being

 

In the material world, forms manifest in a variety of ways - all originating from the one undivided source.

 

to view worldy manifestations as inherintly 'good, 'bad', right wrong is an investment in duality. liking this, hating that, judjing this judjing that, the mind splits in two, it 's no longer 'full'

 

Also, as Aiwei says, if the mind is full (mindfullness) then there is no discrimination, as a full mind (a limitless mind) is all encompassing.

 

Didn't some master say ' before, I was in the world, now that I am awake, the world is in me' ?

just my 2 cents.......(give or take, allowing for currency conversions )

 

 

"Being" mindful is the bate and switch. It may have been some where lost in translation and refered to as being fixed, but Being something is still a distinguishing between one being mindful and an object being made mindful of.

The talk of "being" is just a place of reference, not really that there is a being ...being mindful

Mindful also is a reference of focus of the mind, because a mind is actually not separate from any other living being, and all other things of creation, though other "non living" things do not have a mind, it is the mind where they are created from. So in essense, really, there is only one mind with a focus of different characteristics.

If there is a present being distinguished, then there is a future of the present outcomes and a past of causes which resulted from other outcomes.

 

It is to not distinguish of past, present or future, yet to also not to think there isn't any. The instant there is a reference of past, there will be no mindfullness of all, but a view..a peception of one thing.

 

To see the clouds in the sky, just let the mind be as though not a cloud is in the sky. The instant there is a distinguish of a cloud, there is a cloud and a sky. No distinguishing mark in the mind; no cloud, no sky and neither of the two.

 

In that.. the Mindfullness is actually emptiness because of there not being a distinguisher of what is mindful and not. And in that being the case, there is no mind to even be, no being, for ther eis nothing that is of view. There would be no view, therefore no mind.

 

Your 2 cents exchanged pretty well in my country... haha give or take a few processing charges.

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei

Edited June 21, 2007 by 林愛偉

[fatherpaul]

pushing this a bit further

 

mindfulness is truly mindlessness

the apparent mind becomes totally empty

and so becomes full of everything

"no mind" in a sense

"one mind" in another sense

 

 

this is f-n weird

 

but cool

 

peace,

paul

[beancurdturtle]

It is to not distinguish of past, present or future, yet to also not to think there isn't any. The instant there is a reference of past, there will be no mindfullness of all, but a view..a peception of one thing.

Wouldn't this be the ability to refer to world by the accepted label set (i.e.: past. present, future) for common consensual reality, while knowing that the label set commonly accepted to be reality is basically a set of labels for our perceptions and definitions?

 

The Way that can be experienced is not true;

The world that can be constructed is not real.

Edited June 21, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[林愛偉]

pushing this a bit further

 

mindfulness is truly mindlessness

the apparent mind becomes totally empty

and so becomes full of everything

"no mind" in a sense

"one mind" in another sense

this is f-n weird

 

but cool

 

peace,

paul

 

haha it is

 

Wouldn't this be the ability to refer to world by the accepted label set (i.e.: past. present, future) for common consensual reality, while knowing that the label set commonly accepted to be reality is basically a set of labels for our perceptions and definitions?

 

 

Its not an ability, but your last part of the sentence hits it on the head!

 

"while knowing that the label set commonly accepted to be reality is basically a set of labels for our perceptions and definitions?"

 

Now once you can personally emotionally detach from the labels set in the mind from the conditioning since childhood, you will discover the other conditions from other bodies you had once manifested due to your karma. And in that, personally emotionally detach from them as well.. and now you are back to something you never strayed from actually.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[beancurdturtle]

Its not an ability, but your last part of the sentence hits it on the head!

 

"while knowing that the label set commonly accepted to be reality is basically a set of labels for our perceptions and definitions?"

 

Now once you can personally emotionally detach from the labels set in the mind from the conditioning since childhood, you will discover the other conditions from other bodies you had once manifested due to your karma. And in that, personally emotionally detach from them as well.. and now you are back to something you never strayed from actually.

Right, "ability" being one of the labels. "Actualization" is probably a better label here.

 

The un-learning is the part that takes focus - then paradoxically letting go. It's like learning to drive a manual shift automobile. First most people think it's not possible. Then when you actualize it, it sort of just happens. Then one day you realize you've actualized it and think, "holy cow! this is cool."

 

And the friction is eliminated.

[林愛偉]

Right, "ability" being one of the labels. "Actualization" is probably a better label here.

 

The un-learning is the part that takes focus - then paradoxically letting go. It's like learning to drive a manual shift automobile. First most people think it's not possible. Then when you actualize it, it sort of just happens. Then one day you realize you've actualized it and think, "holy cow! this is cool."

 

And the friction is eliminated.

 

 

Good analogy. I used to drive stick shift. hahaha now I left the whole car idea and haven't driven

in a few years. Ofcourse because I moved to China, and driving out here is not the smartest thing to do,

but the conditions let me shed the inbedded wantings for a "personal" transportation. Now I don't drive at all,

with no desire for it. It has been put down.

 

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[beancurdturtle]

Of course because I moved to China, and driving out here is not the smartest thing to do,

There's a very strong possibility I will be moving to China in 2009.

[rain]

Thought,

like a Spear

thrown.

Soon

you`ll be There

 

Faithfully

I rest

in Good Intentions

beyond

Good Sense

 

Breathe Air, Breathe

Life

in the Laughter of Emptiness

Edited June 21, 2007 by rain

[林愛偉]

There's a very strong possibility I will be moving to China in 2009.

 

 

I am working my way out of China.. hahaha By next year, or even 2009 I will be returning to NY, Staten island,

with my wife to put together a small cultivation school. Eventually it will get bigger, but that depends on donations for such a development.

We will do things as we do now...work in every place we go to , streets, parks, in the house, classroom..etc.

We have lots of plans, and are looking for ways to establish something before returning to the U.S. Maybe it will be in NY, or maybe some other place in the U.S. or world. Must see which place has the proper conditions for such a school...the people, environment, mind.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

 

There's a very strong possibility I will be moving to China in 2009.

 

 

What, of your mind, has you on the path to come to China...? hahaha

[TimBlack]

http://www.budsas.org/ebud/mfneng/mind0.htm]Mindfulness in plain English[/url]

[beancurdturtle]

What, of your mind, has you on the path to come to China...? hahaha

Because 怪人 of my ilk are much better accepted by Chinese in my experience.

 

Maybe not understood - but accepted nonetheless.

[林愛偉]

Because 怪人 of my ilk are much better accepted by Chinese in my experience.

 

Maybe not understood - but accepted nonetheless.

 

 

Oh?? You are a strange person of what liking.. hahhaha

 

I thought I had no problems coming out here 3 yrs ago. I walked in the streets with my 200yr old sword on

my back. I wear chinese clothing, because that is what i have worn since young teenage years when I didn't even know it was chinese ..haha And all I get is racial slurs, curious put downs, and people who do not recognize chinese style clothing and even old cultural behavior.

THat was in the first year. After cultivating certain things to clear the anger that began to manifest, and understand their conditions and the last 56yrs of brainwashing, all is good. I still wear what I do, and act as i do, for a reason, i don't carry the sword now.. for certai nreasons.. haha and there is a difference in people, for there is a difference in mind.

It will be an experience for you indeed.. unless you have been here already.. hehehe

 

Peace and Happiness my friend,

Aiwei

[beancurdturtle]

Oh?? You are a strange person of what liking.. hahhaha

 

I thought I had no problems coming out here 3 yrs ago. I walked in the streets with my 200yr old sword on

my back. I wear chinese clothing, because that is what i have worn since young teenage years when I didn't even know it was chinese ..haha And all I get is racial slurs, curious put downs, and people who do not recognize chinese style clothing and even old cultural behavior.

THat was in the first year. After cultivating certain things to clear the anger that began to manifest, and understand their conditions and the last 56yrs of brainwashing, all is good. I still wear what I do, and act as i do, for a reason, i don't carry the sword now.. for certai nreasons.. haha and there is a difference in people, for there is a difference in mind.

It will be an experience for you indeed.. unless you have been here already.. hehehe

 

Peace and Happiness my friend,

Aiwei

How strange? I am an actualized (to a large degree) philosophical Taoist in the U.S. - where the only Taoism known by most people is Religious Taoism (i.e.: I-Kuan Tao). Try to explain the difference betreen the three major schools of Taoist practice to people who largely don't know there's a different between Taiwan and Thailand - they sound the same. I don't even attempt any more - I don't even say I'm Taoist unless someone asks.

 

I've been to China and Taiwan a few times. And a large percentage of my friends are Chinese or Asian. Like I said, they may not understand me, but usually there is acceptance (sometimes humorous). The racial slurs and curious putdowns just make me laugh. And the look on people's face when they think the meiguoren understands the insult is priceless. At this point in my life I'm usually way past anger.

 

I wear what I do too. Every day a black Mock turtle neck shirt (don't want wind on my neck) - long sleeve or short sleeve dependant on the weather. Blue denim jeans, and black tennis shoes. I don't see the need for fashion for myself - though I enjoy admiring it on women.

Edited June 22, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[林愛偉]

How strange? I am an actualized (to a large degree) philosophical Taoist in the U.S. - where the only Taoism known by most people is Religious Taoism (i.e.: I-Kuan Tao). Try to explain the difference betreen the three major schools of Taoist practice to people who largely don't know there's a different between Taiwan and Thailand - they sound the same. I don't even attempt any more - I don't even say I'm Taoist unless someone asks.

 

I've been to China and Taiwan a few times. And a large percentage of my friends are Chinese or Asian. Like I said, they may not understand me, but usually there is acceptance (sometimes humorous). The racial slurs and curious putdowns just make me laugh. And the look on people's face when they think the meiguoren understands the insult is priceless. At this point in my life I'm usually way past anger.

 

I wear what I do too. Every day a black Mock turtle neck shirt (don't want wind on my neck) - long sleeve or short sleeve dependant on the weather. Blue denim jeans, and black tennis shoes. I don't see the need for fashion for myself - though I enjoy admiring it on women.

 

haha great! I laugh my way through china as well. They don't know what to make of anything other than western mind or atleast liking modernized things to an extent.. haha Its always a hit when one knows abit more about their history than they do. Though I am not one for lots of small talk, its just fun to share what has been.

 

I cover from the wind as well... its not a good friend when in the body. Riding the wind is fine, but being on the receiving end of the wind is not fun.. haha

 

Peace,

Aiwei