Sending people energy/Doing healing work without asking someone...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Having taught magic (how to manifest awesome stuff in your life) for a long time... (that's a LOT of students)... I have noticed a pattern. The people who have had some past extremely difficult or horrid time in their lives, make the best practitioners by far. They can also pull off the most interesting abilities, and are stronger in their magic exponentially. So I got curious and asked my teacher (my magic teacher) and a few other teachers, who have been doing all this for twice as long as myself. Yes, they have found the same thing. Not saying that someone who has never suffered or had huge unfathomable obstacles to overcome can't be as strong of a practitioner; I guess I'm saying I just haven't met one yet . Though they also have to of course be the type who has overcome such things, or at least found a way to live with them. The folks who have just given up, do not fall in the former category. No idea why, my teacher says that they are the ones who *need* this stuff to work so they make it work. Also perhaps huge strength comes from overcoming difficulties.

 

Though I'd be happy to be proven wrong too, sucks that one has to have a terrible time for a period in their life to be amazing at various metaphysical things. Perhaps I have missed something. Or maybe I just don't meet folks who have not had something huge to overcome?

 

Anyways, perhaps there is something to this whole suffering thing, or overcoming horrid things thing?

 

I have also found that the universe tends to present more opportunities to those who are suffering/going through hell. Not quite sure how to explain this.. perhaps the quota of mini miracles, or fate working out really well flows downstream or something?

 

on edit: that's very interesting.

 

...

Edited December 17, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[liminal_luke]

Having taught magic (how to manifest awesome stuff in your life) for a long time... (that's a LOT of students)... I have noticed a pattern. The people who have had some past extremely difficult or horrid time in their lives, make the best practitioners by far. They can also pull off the most interesting abilities, and are stronger in their magic exponentially.

 

I recently taught my partner Kunlun, the spontaneous movement practice. He lived most of his early life in pretty extreme poverty, living for years in a makeshift house with a dirt floor and walls of lashed together cardboard here in Mexico. He's never had any previous exposure to taoist practice or chi gung.

 

Well...instead of the usual flailing about that characterizes beginning practice--that indeed characterizes my practice-- he rose from his seat and started making very intentional and precise looking mudras, moving in beautiful spiral patterns as if possessed by the spirit of a Chinese tai chi master. When I asked him afterward how he did it, he said you just have to unify your head with your heart.

 

Needless to say, I was floored. I'm not sure kunlun qualifies as magic, but I can't help thinking the phenomenon you've noticed in your magic students applies here. Whatever it was that has led him to such hardship in his life, is also bringing him some pretty amazing spiritual potential. Or at least it seems to me.

Edited December 17, 2013 by liminal_luke

[BaguaKicksAss]

I recently taught my partner Kunlun, the spontaneous movement practice. He lived most of his early life in pretty extreme poverty, living for years in a makeshift house with a dirt floor and walls of lashed together cardboard here in Mexico. He's never had any previous exposure to taoist practice or chi gung.

 

Well...instead of the usual flailing about that characterizes beginning practice--that indeed characterizes my practice-- he rose from his seat and started making very intentional and precise looking mudras, moving in beautiful spiral patterns as if possessed by the spirit of a Chinese tai chi master. When I asked him afterward how he did it, he said you just have to unify your head with your heart.

 

Needless to say, I was floored. I'm not sure kunlun qualifies as magic, but I can't help thinking the phenomenon you've noticed in your magic students applies here. Whatever it was that has led him to such hardship in his life, is also bringing him some pretty amazing spiritual potential. Or at least it seems to me.

 

I always love seeing things like this happen! You know that "holy hell that should have taken you 5 years to get" sort of thing .

 

I didn't talk about martial arts or qigong at all as I'm way to new to both to really be able to understand/comment yet... but I have this sneaking suspicion... .

 

Thank you for sharing this story.

 

Hmmm, then once they have whatever it is that brings about some extra skill or whatever, I'm guessing folks who have been through much hardship think of training is not all that bad in comparison. I'm thinking of the ouchy martial arts training in this one though.

 

So what do you think it is?

[liminal_luke]

 

 

 

So what do you think it is?

 

I can't really say for sure, but here's what comes to me. Some souls among us have chosen to take the intensive course. Perhaps they've already completed all the beginning level material. Or they just really enjoy the challenge of going through the spiritual curriculum at breakneck speed. In any case, all the advanced stuff is necessarily difficult. It's just like anything else. I can comfortably add two plus two without breaking a sweat. If I'm going to learn to solve differential equations it's gonna require a little more mental struggle. Then again, someone who has facility with differential equations is going to be able to understand--and thus manipulate--the mathematical world in a way those who are doing arithmetic don't.

 

As all lovers of horse stance know, you don't get very far insisting on constant comfort.

 

Liminal

[Marblehead]

As all lovers of horse stance know, you don't get very far insisting on constant comfort.

 

Liminal

I don't do horse stance for long periods of time therefore I never experience the discomfort.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I can't really say for sure, but here's what comes to me. Some souls among us have chosen to take the intensive course. Perhaps they've already completed all the beginning level material. Or they just really enjoy the challenge of going through the spiritual curriculum at breakneck speed. In any case, all the advanced stuff is necessarily difficult. It's just like anything else. I can comfortably add two plus two without breaking a sweat. If I'm going to learn to solve differential equations it's gonna require a little more mental struggle. Then again, someone who has facility with differential equations is going to be able to understand--and thus manipulate--the mathematical world in a way those who are doing arithmetic don't.

 

As all lovers of horse stance know, you don't get very far insisting on constant comfort.

 

Liminal

 

There have been many many times along the path that I felt the challenge was 110% of what my capacity is/was!

 

I like mountain climbing too .

 

 

I don't do horse stance for long periods of time therefore I never experience the discomfort.

 

I don't do it for long periods either, but my legs still try to convince me that there is no worse pain in the entire universe...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

If anyone wants to offer me kung fu lessons.

 

I'm a complete beginner.

 

I was considering visiting the Shaolin.

 

...

Edited December 17, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Marblehead]

I don't do it for long periods either, but my legs still try to convince me that there is no worse pain in the entire universe...

I broke my right hip about 12 years ago and it was a real challenge to start doing it again. Luckily, while stationed in Korea I learned to do the kimchi squat so in all truthfulness doing the horse stance is easy.

 

I do go through what you are talking about every time I start back to exercising with weights and my two-sword tai chi and othe exercises for coordination and flexibility. For the frist two or three weeks I hurt so much i just want to cry and say the heck with it. But after that breakin period the pain doesn't come back and it actually feels good exercising.

 

I just started back a week ago so I am still in the hurting phase but I can tell that it is reducing. I do the weights one day and then the tai chi the alternate day. The system works good for me. But I must do the exercises early in the morning else I get too lazy to do them.

 

BTW The beginning of the kimchi squat is similar to horse stance except that when your upper legs are horizontal you keep going down, remaining flat footed, until your butt is sitting on the back of your ankles/lower legs. All the way down without touching the floor and then back up without touching the floor. Great upper leg muscle builder.

[JustBHappy]

I don't personally feel that you have to always have to get permission. I send love, good energy and sometimes healing energy all the time to people. I think it's my job. Our job is to find our gifts and passions, cultivate them, and selflessly share them.

I don't do any full on cancer treatments or similar things, but I don't feel there is morally or otherwise anything wrong with helping out the others on this planet if we are able. I help animals without a moment of hesitation and they certainly don't give me any formal written request. The whole idea is kind of silly.

I absolutely understand the points given. Suffering can be a great catalyst for positive change. I also understand that until we can see Karma directly that we will never know how to truly help someone including ourselves. Which brings me to my next point, the people who explicitly request healing, may be better off without your help. You may be harming their development in the same way. Until we can see Karma, we won't know.

So for me, when I see someone who needs assistance, then if I am able, I assist. Simple as that. The most common ones I find myself doing are small things like sore throats, coughing, hiccups, anxiety/distraction and such that my students have in class. I quietly and secretly do what I can do. It often works quite well and I feel there is nothing morally wrong with it.

[Taomeow]

.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Taomeow

[Marblehead]

Sometimes it is best to remain silent.

[de_paradise]

Connect your mind to the highest intent, the meaning of the energy wish, compassion, gratitude, that is the path. dont get caught up in paranoia. focus on how we are all connected to source, all these people here and there are expressions of source. I sent you energy just by replying to your post.

Edited December 18, 2013 by de_paradise

[Ya Mu]

I haven't seen in this thread where it is pointed out that there is a huge difference in simply wishing someone well and doing healing practices like the art & science of medical qigong. In medical qigong we do have a protocol for dealing with this.

Also, If one is working in clinic the patient "gives their permission" the second they walk in the door and ask for help.

 

Also, I submit that we do not have the right to actually change a person's situation that they themselves created in order to learn some particular thing. Which could very well happen if a trained person projected energy to someone because the trained person just thought the other person "needed healing". Now if an untrained person did this the most likely case is that not much but surface stuff, if that, would happen anyway. Unless untrained person is a "natural". In which case they should get real training on how to deal with these things as the first rule is do no harm.

 

Another instance is possible if a person has done a bit of cultivation but hasn't been trained in knowing how to actually treat someone. In this case it is entirely possible that they could displace the sick qi in one area and it run into another area that is weak. For instance someone has cardiovascular problems and a well wishing person decides to "send them energy" because that person has a headache. Guess what?

I suggest you know what you are doing - actual training in whatever system you are using - if you are doing anything other than prayer - which is itself a grand thing.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I tried to press like 10x.

 

Yeah weekend workshop warriors sending nasty energy that they think is "healing" is just.. a PIA for the receivee, or like you say far worse.

[Unseen_Abilities]

-

Edited January 31, 2014 by Unseen_Abilities

[BaguaKicksAss]

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Edited January 12, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Unseen_Abilities]

Oh, at this point, my various states of consciousness are often intricate in ways I've never known before.

[Marblehead]

I haven't seen in this thread where it is pointed out that there is a huge difference in simply wishing someone well and doing healing practices like the art & science of medical qigong. In medical qigong we do have a protocol for dealing with this.

That's because I do not have the knowledge base from which to speak. I leave that to others.

[JustBHappy]

If someone is in need and I am able to help, then I should help.

If I come across an accident and I can do CPR to save a life, then by all means I will. Same goes for the small things like smiling to strangers and sending then nice open accepting and loving energy or helping an old lady across the street. People already hesitate way to much to help their fellow humans and animals. It should be a natural response with no intellectual BS to cloud the decision. There should be no decision, we should just lend a helping hand.

We are not alone, we exist through the work and kindness of others. It's only natural that we should repay it whenever given the opportunity. Our practice should open up our hearts, and rewire the connection between our heads and our hearts not give us some higher than thou arrogance that thinks we know what's best for all people.

I know that I have been in some bad situations in my life and wouldn't be here now if not for the kindness of others. People, animals and situations in life will not always ask for our help, in fact they sometimes outwardly fight against it. Doing the right thing is rarely the feel good lovefest that we would like it to be. The world needs more people who have the courage to step up to the plate and help the people in need, not more excuses for sitting on the sideline and feeling holy.

For me the meaning of life is to pursue our passions and once we gain some mastery to share those gifts with the world. This can be martial arts, defending the woman who is being raped/assaulted, or healing the sick, or any number of things. But to sit back and say the woman created the rape situation and that she needs to learn something from it is a sad way to live in my opinion. We create ALL our situations from sickness to happiness, but that is not to say we don't need a little help now and again. Do we really think we can see everyone's Karma and mind so clearly that we know if someone has learned the lesson or not? "Oh she didn't learn the lesson, so I won't help her!" Often the people that most need help will never ask for it. Pride can be a powerful force. We should help our animal friends who also cannot ask for it.

Sure if someone doesn't know what they are doing, and there is potential to do more harm than good, then obviously they shouldn't do it. This has nothing to do with being asked though. If someone asks them to help, then they still have no business meddling and possibly doing more damage. The fact that they were asked to help doesn't matter one bit, they still shouldn't mess things up. Two completely different topics. Which brings me back to the first line of this post:

If someone is in need and I am able to help, then I should help.

[liminal_luke]

 

 

 

If someone is in need and I am able to help, then I should help.

 

First off, I really admire your generous spirit. I'm sure you help a lot.

 

Consider though that there's another way to think about the whole "asking first" thing. It's not just hand-wringing sidesitters who are too hung up to get in there and do the work. Asking first does something extremely important and, um, helpful: It shows Respect. Asking first says that we are equally capable and entitled to make decisions in our own life. Asking first shows humility, and honors the other person. Having our right to make our own path in life affirmed, being respected, honored, and treated with humility--so many times these things are all the help we really need.

 

Asking is not some silly preamble to the real work. Asking with an open heart establishes the conditions of safety and peace without which nothing else can happen. Asking opens the door.

[BaguaKicksAss]

My concern is those who think they know what they are dong, but do not, and make matters worse.

 

My analogy would be say I was having trouble crossing the street today because I hadn't slept last night, so someone thought I was a bit disabled and grabbed my hand to help me across... well they would have promptly rebroken my nearly healed finger for one.. and made an error in disabled judgment for another...

 

Well that and the whole some people just need to heal themselves, or be sick longer to learn some really valuable lesson (this one is really hard for me, as I'm empathic and don't like to see people suffer).

[joeblast]

Having taught magic (how to manifest awesome stuff in your life) for a long time... (that's a LOT of students)... I have noticed a pattern. The people who have had some past extremely difficult or horrid time in their lives, make the best practitioners by far. They can also pull off the most interesting abilities, and are stronger in their magic exponentially. So I got curious and asked my teacher (my magic teacher) and a few other teachers, who have been doing all this for twice as long as myself. Yes, they have found the same thing. Not saying that someone who has never suffered or had huge unfathomable obstacles to overcome can't be as strong of a practitioner; I guess I'm saying I just haven't met one yet . Though they also have to of course be the type who has overcome such things, or at least found a way to live with them. The folks who have just given up, do not fall in the former category. No idea why, my teacher says that they are the ones who *need* this stuff to work so they make it work. Also perhaps huge strength comes from overcoming difficulties.

 

Though I'd be happy to be proven wrong too, sucks that one has to have a terrible time for a period in their life to be amazing at various metaphysical things. Perhaps I have missed something. Or maybe I just don't meet folks who have not had something huge to overcome?

 

Anyways, perhaps there is something to this whole suffering thing, or overcoming horrid things thing?

 

I have also found that the universe tends to present more opportunities to those who are suffering/going through hell. Not quite sure how to explain this.. perhaps the quota of mini miracles, or fate working out really well flows downstream or something?

I would have been too arrogant and lazy to have cultivated myself if I hadnt beat the hell out of myself and broken my back first. I would have hit 25, 28, and said screw it *grows gut* But my spine says not so fast there pal, take care of yourself unless you want to live in a ton of pain and limited mobility. Had I not had some uphill slog or another, I might be saddled with an even worse uphill slog of another form.

 

I can't really say for sure, but here's what comes to me. Some souls among us have chosen to take the intensive course. Perhaps they've already completed all the beginning level material. Or they just really enjoy the challenge of going through the spiritual curriculum at breakneck speed. In any case, all the advanced stuff is necessarily difficult. It's just like anything else. I can comfortably add two plus two without breaking a sweat. If I'm going to learn to solve differential equations it's gonna require a little more mental struggle. Then again, someone who has facility with differential equations is going to be able to understand--and thus manipulate--the mathematical world in a way those who are doing arithmetic don't.

 

As all lovers of horse stance know, you don't get very far insisting on constant comfort.

 

Liminal

that's because you can envision two being added to two. visualizing things like partial differential equations and feeeeling and imagining and picturing in the mind's eye what the results of the functions being studied becomes no different than visualizing two apples being placed into a basket next to two other apples stephen hawking was *forced* to do this. so just like my back, excel through hardship that provides a perspective different than one would otherwise have.

 

 

if you have good enough rapport with someone, you can tell 'em to sit down, close your eyes, relax and shut up for 5 minutes when they have a golf ball sized contusion that needs a little work

[JustBHappy]

It reminds me of the helping the butterfly story. Many versions, here is one:

There’s a story attributed to Henry Miller, the writer, about a little boy in India who went up to a guru who was sitting and looking at something in his hand. The little boy went up and looked at it. He didn’t quite understand what it was, so he asked the guru, "What is that?"

"It’s a cocoon," answered the guru, "Inside the cocoon is a butterfly. Soon the cocoon is going to split, and the butterfly will come out."

"Could I have it?" asked the little boy.

"Yes," said the guru, "but you must promise me that when the cocoon splits and the butterfly starts to come out and is beating it’s wings to get out of the cocoon, you won’t help it. It is important not to help the butterfly by breaking the cocoon apart. It must do it on it’s own."

The little boy promised, took the cocoon, and went home with it. He then sat and watched it. He saw it begin to vibrate and move and quiver, and finally the cocoon split in half. Inside was a beautiful damp butterfly, frantically beating its wings against the cocoon, trying to get out and not seeming to be able to do it. The little boy desperately wanted to help. Finally, he gave in, and pushed the two halves of the cocoon apart. The butterfly sprang out, but as soon as it got out, it fell to the ground and was dead. The little boy picked up the dead butterfly and in tears went back to the guru and showed it to him.

"Little boy," said the guru, "You pushed open the cocoon, didn’t you?"

"Yes," said the little boy, "I did."

The guru spoke to him gravely, "You don’t understand. You didn’t understand what you were doing. When the butterfly comes out of the cocoon, the only way he can strengthen it’s wings is by beating them against the cocoon. It beats against the cocoon so it’s muscles will grow strong. When you helped it, you prevented it from developing the muscles it would need to survive."


There are clearly times when "helping" is not helping and I am well aware the concept of "idiot compassion", but I also know that many animals and people who want help will not, or cannot ask for help. I don't think the asking is anything magical that removes these issues. It's very likely that the butterfly would have asked for help while it was hopelessly struggling. (it obviously can't) The fact that someone asks us for help does nothing to remove the possibility that not helping is the best option.

An alcoholic will ask the codependant enabler for help again and again. Many will say it's in the alcoholic's best interest that he doesn't get this "help" and that he hits rock bottom. A prime example of how the mere asking for help does nothing to remove the issue. Once again they are two seperate issues, the asking does nothing to make giving help "right" or more ethical.

 

[liminal_luke]

Joeblast--

 

Interesting about your back. Do you know the story of Kan, Max's number one kunlun student? I'm drawing from memory here, but my recollection is that he was nearly paralyzed after an accident, and that his cultivation journey began during his recovery.

 

 

Liminal

[joeblast]

http://kanportal.com/ /\