Is it a need or a want?

[Z3N]

Everything is energy before it is perceived as matter by the organism, the universe is a animating force of reality.

 

The organism experience is only 10% while the other 90% goes on unnoticed by the organism because of the perception of the “self.”

 

Science has its limitation as the result of this and is also determined by the every instrument that is taking the measurement which is just the extension of the “self,” a limitation.

 

Humans want all this stuff like “powers” and “energy production” but you are not going to get it, and the reason for that is that you haven’t mastered the “self,” still as though suck within the 10%.

 

Your masters of the past did not need scientific instruments to be the other 90%.

 

Yes of course this stuff is all there and all that but it isn’t what is important, yes you will be able to do things that appear supernatural but it really isn’t that super.

 

It is rather an extension into what is the whole picture and natures of which you are really, not supernatural, but just natural, it is more like a side effect.

 

Nor is it a point of measure into ones spirituality, like oh! you can not be spiritual or be enlightened unless you can walk through wall and shoot lighting bolts out between your buttocks.

 

It is only the self that creates all this garbage because it wants to know but it cannot, and in its desperation about the other it creates fantasy about all this.

 

That is like fitting a square into a round hole.

 

Yes of course you need some type of tactical understanding to penetrate insight into this.

 

So why be square when you can be round?

 

And at what point do you stop before this entire attempt to know all about these energy systems becomes counterproductive?

 

At what point is the departure?

 

Surely now is a time for a change in the overall structure of knowledge mixing art, science, religion, philosophy?

 

Melting it down into something universal and not limited to beliefs or cultural differences of opinions and all that, rising above it all.

 

[Marblehead]

Based on the first couple sentences I was going to argue with you but then you moved into what you really wanted to say and my thoughts changed.

 

There are many different opinions as to what a human need is compared to what wants are. If something is a psychological want it will eventually become a need if not forgotten or attained.

 

Most of what you refer to, I think, is a desire to have a better life. Nothing worng with that as long as our expectations are realistic.

[Stosh]

Ditto to what Mh said

but I want to add that the divisions of those things into science art etc , is just a subjective stance, since they all represent means of tranfer of information to us, either from one another or from the material world. Photos made by Hubble or an electron microscope can be just as fascinating as the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel or a childs sandcastle.

[4bsolute]

Everything is energy before it is perceived as matter by the organism, the universe is a animating force of reality.

 

The organism experience is only 10% while the other 90% goes on unnoticed by the organism because of the perception of the “self.”

 

Science has its limitation as the result of this and is also determined by the every instrument that is taking the measurement which is just the extension of the “self,” a limitation.

 

Humans want all this stuff like “powers” and “energy production” but you are not going to get it, and the reason for that is that you haven’t mastered the “self,” still as though suck within the 10%.

 

Your masters of the past did not need scientific instruments to be the other 90%.

 

Yes of course this stuff is all there and all that but it isn’t what is important, yes you will be able to do things that appear supernatural but it really isn’t that super.

 

It is rather an extension into what is the whole picture and natures of which you are really, not supernatural, but just natural, it is more like a side effect.

 

Nor is it a point of measure into ones spirituality, like oh! you can not be spiritual or be enlightened unless you can walk through wall and shoot lighting bolts out between your buttocks.

 

It is only the self that creates all this garbage because it wants to know but it cannot, and in its desperation about the other it creates fantasy about all this.

 

That is like fitting a square into a round hole.

 

Yes of course you need some type of tactical understanding to penetrate insight into this.

 

So why be square when you can be round?

 

And at what point do you stop before this entire attempt to know all about these energy systems becomes counterproductive?

 

At what point is the departure?

 

Surely now is a time for a change in the overall structure of knowledge mixing art, science, religion, philosophy?

 

Melting it down into something universal and not limited to beliefs or cultural differences of opinions and all that, rising above it all.

 

Super natural is and always was always a state of someone he or she did not personally have, or was in. Like the talk about being enlightened. You do not see Yourself as in that state, that state is seen by others and then put in such terms. To you, to me, it would appear as normal. That is what I told my uncle when he was contemplating about his ideas of how he would grow, when he started into his journey last year. He dodged my perception of reality and imagined it to be wondrous. But he totally did not see that it only was his imagination. A third perspective so to speak.

 

I can guarantee you that the further we get away from the third perspective into a first perspective, everything is COMPLETELY different.

 

Why do I mention this? Because I used to play a lot of video games. And so I also dreamed in third perspective and sometimes still do. But the figure I there see, who is this? Is this me? It can not be me. This is a state of watching the story of some individual and not living your Own. Super important to get this in.

 

The more I contemplate about 'teleportation' the more I understand that my entire perception shifts from the idea of teleporting my body.. looking at it from the outside.. to what happens when I stay inside, in this body, how I type these lettershere on this screen, how it feels to teleport THIS self to some other place. A COMPLETELY different feeling. A more denser one, in my terms.

 

This third perspective thing really is a sickness! Call it whatever you want, I call it 3rd perspective. Observing something from the outside rather than being 'it' and living from this core.

 

Can you make anything out of it? Sorry friend I had a 'letout' this morning, I hope you can puzzle it together anyway.

 

Edit: I see the departure... I believe you mean the exist of this grid into a higher state of understanding to be there when we... like it has been said so many times and it will be said again so many times in the 'future'... when we let go and Let Life Live Us.

 

How can it be any different? Why this need for control? Where does it come from anyway????????? I ask myself sometimes and now again... like an infection!

 

How do you want to fly an airplane when you dont even know every bit of it's function. Same for our body: So many individuals 'wanting' but have they every understood 50% of all bodily functions?

 

I see it this way: Mastery of our physical. And then move into other bodies. And therefore states of experience, call it realms, whatever.

 

Understand how your body works from Toe to end of your Hair. Living in harmony, not a single pinch. Then emotions, and with it mental qualities.

 

Like mentioned in here:

Everything must be in harmony. No excuses. No workaround. If you have a missing limb or 5 missing organs, sorry next life.

 

PS: How do I master my physical? By meditation and let my higher aspect give me answers. That will then lead to a reduction of asking in such forums here for advice to a bare minimum. I also say this to myself. Meditation every day. Best every morning between 3 and 6am for the rest of the life.

 

And then? Then application. Further knowledge follows.

 

Coincidence in german is "Zufall" - directly translated into english is "Fall into ones hand". People say life is one concidence when they do not understand life. Awakeners say there are no coincidences and neglect that there are. You then just merge more and more with the circumstances 'that fall in your lap', you embody them! FIRST PERSPECTIVE rather then seeing yourself as a victim THIRD PERSPECTIVE.

 

good, now I got it done. my mind got it done. Satsang: Seperation, to understand every aspect. But not to exclude yourself from all those aspects which shape your entire being, no, in the end see yourself as all of them combined. And then ultimately and truly work with them all at once.

Edited December 19, 2013 by 4bsolute

[Z3N]

Based on the first couple sentences I was going to argue with you but then you moved into what you really wanted to say and my thoughts changed.

 

There are many different opinions as to what a human need is compared to what wants are. If something is a psychological want it will eventually become a need if not forgotten or attained.

 

Most of what you refer to, I think, is a desire to have a better life. Nothing worng with that as long as our expectations are realistic.

 

Please don't hold back friend, taking things personal is not my agenda.

 

It is my point of view that all the problems that humans are facing all stem form the same source.

Edited December 17, 2013 by Z3N

[Z3N]

Super natural is and always was always a state of someone he or she did not personally have, or was in. Like the talk about being enlightened. You do not see Yourself as in that state, that state is seen by others and then put in such terms. To you, to me, it would appear as normal. That is what I told my uncle when he was contemplating about his ideas of how he would grow, when he started into his journey last year. He dodged my perception of reality and imagined it to be wondrous. But he totally did not see that it only was his imagination. A third perspective so to speak.

 

I can guarantee you that the further we get away from the third perspective into a first perspective, everything is COMPLETELY different.

 

Why do I mention this? Because I used to play a lot of video games. And so I also dreamed in third perspective and sometimes still do. But the figure I there see, who is this? Is this me? It can not be me. This is a state of watching the story of some individual and not living your Own. Super important to get this in.

 

The more I contemplate about 'teleportation' the more I understand that my entire perception shifts from the idea of teleporting my body.. looking at it from the outside.. to what happens when I stay inside, in this body, how I type these lettershere on this screen, how it feels to teleport THIS self to some other place. A COMPLETELY different feeling. A more denser one, in my terms.

 

This third perspective thing really is a sickness! Call it whatever you want, I call it 3rd perspective. Observing something from the outside rather than being 'it' and living from this core.

 

Can you make anything out of it? Sorry friend I had a 'letout' this morning, I hope you can puzzle it together anyway.

 

Edit: I see the departure... I believe you mean the exist of this grid into a higher state of understanding to be there when we... like it has been said so many times and it will be said again so many times in the 'future'... when we let go and Let Life Live Us.

 

How can it be any different? Why this need for control? Where does it come from anyway????????? I ask myself sometimes and now again... like an infection!

 

How do you want to fly an airplane when you dont even know every bit of it's function. Same for our body: So many individuals 'wanting' but have they every understood 50% of all bodily functions?

 

I see it this way: Mastery our physical. And then move into other bodies. And therefore states of experience, call it realms, whatever.

 

Understand how your body works from Toe to end of your Hair. Living in harmony, not a single pinch. Then emotions, and with it mental qualities.

 

Like mentioned in here:

Everything must be in harmony. No excuses. No workaround. If you have a missing limb or 5 missing organs, sorry next life.

 

PS: How do I master my physical? By meditation and let my higher aspect give me answers. That will then lead to a reduction of asking in such forums here for advice to a bare minimum. I also say this to myself. Meditation every day. Best every morning between 3 and 6am for the rest of the life.

 

And then? Then application. Further knowledge follows.

 

Coincidence in german is "Zufall" - directly translated into english is "Fall into ones hand". People say life is one concidence when they do not understand life. Awakeners say there are no coincidences and neglect that there are. You then just merge more and more with the circumstances 'that fall in your lap', you embody them! FIRST PERSPECTIVE rather then seeing yourself as a victim THIRD PERSPECTIVE.

 

good, now I got it done. my mind got it done. Satsang: Seperation, to understand every aspect. But not to exclude yourself from all those aspects which shape your entire being, no, in the end see yourself as all of them combined. And then ultimately and truly work with them all at once.

 

Yes, but you still need to gather intelligence, it is one of your tools otherwise mediation will can go in vain.

[Z3N]

What you need is usually not what you want and what the human race needs is to penetrate into this layer of “self” consciousness, but it doesn’t want it, happily conditioned by dwelling within the self.

 

When we observe the universe the mind creates a construct of perceptions based on the evolved status, our brains recreate a version of impressions upon the mind of what the universe might look like according to the senses.

 

There doing their best representation of it.

 

These evolved mechanisms have emerged out of the environmental conditions, the organism’s senses gather physical stimuli feeding information into the brains control centre.

 

The nervous system is a processing centre saving what has come to past, as the “known” according to the sensors as what it has learnt scene the beginning of time, millions of years of recorded information into the DNA.

 

The brain cannot function outside of the “known” and can only rely on the senses to gather what is “known” then projects with that “known” by displaying what it has learnt by adapting, evolving and involving.

 

DNA is not stupid.

 

So this means when we experience life via the means of the organism, this is all within the limitations of this centre, brain cells collecting fragments of information, storing it and using it as a reference which accumulates into “self.”

 

There are many layers of “self.”

 

As a result humans live between their ears and are limited to tiny fragments of reality that the evolved sensory mechanisms have collected over a millennium about their environment.

 

Therefore the “you” and “who” you think “you” are, and your entire psychological content can only exist and operate in the past and what “you” identify yourself as “I” is within this limitation.

 

So the “self” can only function within the “known” as that is the basis of knowledge and authority, the accumulation of the “known,” are fragments of information accumulated by the accumulator which is just the accumulation of self.

 

What emerges out of this “known,” the centre, the self is the “I” and the “me” and the “you” and the feeling of separation and disconnectedness because this “I” is artificial.

 

So what happen?

 

When you add a molecule within a box it is just a molecule, if you place five more in the box it is just six molecules in a box, but if you put a thousand molecules in the box it becomes a sound wave.

 

Interesting isn’t?

 

So over thousands of years this “skin bag” including the “brain box” has been expanding gathering more and more information evolving it to a point where the self-accumulated enough fragments to give rise to the “I,” and then the dawn of artificial intelligence within the “real intelligence” that created the organism in the first place.

 

Just like the molecules in the box.

 

By the way this is not a bad thing people it is part of the way.

 

Does this make sense?

 

Please challenge me if you like?

[Marblehead]

Please don't hold back friend, taking things personal is not my agenda.

 

It is my point of view that all the problems that humans are facing all stem form the same source.

Hehehe. I'm not known here for holding back. I will always tell you my truths as I understand them or I will just keep my mouth shut. I felt your post worthy of responding to. My initial response still stands as is.

 

When speaking of our excessive wants and needs I normally use the word "desires". The more we can lessen our desires the more at peace we will be with our inner self.

[4bsolute]

Yes, but you still need to gather intelligence, it is one of your tools otherwise mediation will can go in vain.

 

It is said intelligence 'is' your current soul-level.

 

Gathering intelligence in my understanding now means, not gathering intellect, rather expand your energetic container. This light, this energy that you download and keep in your vessel, is intelligence. It's like you puzzle yourself together with more fragments of the Universe, not that you 'become' something else in terms of leveling up or business-career-thinking.

 

The nervous system is a processing centre saving what has come to past, as the “known” according to the sensors as what it has learnt scene the beginning of time, millions of years of recorded information into the DNA.

 

So that would mean we are 'living' our environment, through the 'eyes' of these organisms? This would then lead to the conclusion that we are seeing what the earth, the planet, itself is seeing. Meaning we are telepathic every second, just not 'directly' towards other human beings.

 

The brain cannot function outside of the “known” and can only rely on the senses to gather what is “known” then projects with that “known” by displaying what it has learnt by adapting, evolving and involving.

 

Who says that? "Known" is just a matter of shifting perception. Basicly the entire universe is known, through all perceptual channels that it created with itself. So nothing is ever unknown.

 

But you see, at this point it gets messy, because it's rather obsolete to continue thinking in these ways... what would follow next is "Who allows us what to think" - "who are we and who are they". To solve that, at a least a soul-level consciousness is required.

 

I on the other hand ask my mind, why is it not just freely "given" to anyone that so desires? Or is it? I mean what holds us back to connect, not to the soul and not the Higher, directly to the Universal Consciousness?

 

What is "it" that this doesnt function as a switch.

 

How different is learning from the perception of a spiritual being that is connected to a higher plain of existance?

 

WHAT IF we seeing us as a small and dirty roach, having no job, no 'success' in life are actually the (excuse me to even speak in such terms, but for the sake of example) Higher evolved souls?

 

Remember we are here because of drastic limitations. To being actively limited by these illusions to fine tune what we have not understood. To be in the heat of one's 'lower chakra'.

 

My next step would be that my mind gets filled with shallow conspiracy theories through the BS I have clicked on youtube a few times where it's talked about a sort of emotional "milking process" keeping us here in fear.

 

And here is the wish for higher guidance. But wouldnt this higher guidance not work as a cheat?

 

To name the best example, the worst fear of an human individual: Death and how Guru's and whatnot speak about it. They claim it's no problem and the rainbow is beyond, but only do so because their higher aspect allows them to see more of the greater spectrum of life. Drasticly speaking: Wouldnt it be more helpful for your own's Higher evolution to actively be those bits and gore on someones hood? Arent we here in an endless cycle of respawn anyway? Isnt matter expendable and available in an endless reservoir? Yes and yes. But something keeps me away from doing this. What is it?

 

You even speak of 'making sense' - what is sense? What makes sense is Bias. Bias makes sense haha! It's true.

 

Maybe we should reduce the amount of questions that we ask from time to time and rather directly ask for what we want.

 

Edit: Why can I sit in meditation and say and believe "Higher Aspect embody me more fully" and get different kinds of sensations I have never had before? I dont even expect them to be there. Actually I am very often so unconfident in formulating these 'higher wishes' that I unconsciously believe they dont work anyway - but they do, somehow, something works. It must follow your command. You - are it. How about doing this daily? I know I do.

 

Not picture yourself being a higher perspective of yourself, because you get it wrong anyway - rather let it fill you how it wants to. Simple. I know from my experience, that it will repair you.. your body and emotions and thoughts, first. And you can feel this.

Edited December 19, 2013 by 4bsolute

[Z3N]

It is said intelligence 'is' your current soul-level.

 

Gathering intelligence in my understanding now means, not gathering intellect, rather expand your energetic container. This light, this energy that you download and keep in your vessel, is intelligence. It's like you puzzle yourself together with more fragments of the Universe, not that you 'become' something else in terms of leveling up or business-career-thinking.

 

 

So that would mean we are 'living' our environment, through the 'eyes' of these organisms? This would then lead to the conclusion that we are seeing what the earth, the planet, itself is seeing. Meaning we are telepathic every second, just not 'directly' towards other human beings.

 

 

Who says that? "Known" is just a matter of shifting perception. Basicly the entire universe is known, through all perceptual channels that it created with itself. So nothing is ever unknown.

 

But you see, at this point it gets messy, because it's rather obsolete to continue thinking in these ways... what would follow next is "Who allows us what to think" - "who are we and who are they". To solve that, at a least a soul-level consciousness is required.

 

I on the other hand ask my mind, why is it not just freely "given" to anyone that so desires? Or is it? I mean what holds us back to connect, not to the soul and not the Higher, directly to the Universal Consciousness?

 

What is "it" that this doesnt function as a switch.

 

How different is learning from the perception of a spiritual being that is connected to a higher plain of existance?

 

WHAT IF we seeing us as a small and dirty roach, having no job, no 'success' in life are actually the (excuse me to even speak in such terms, but for the sake of example) Higher evolved souls?

 

Remember we are here because of drastic limitations. To being actively limited by these illusions to fine tune what we have not understood. To be in the heat of one's 'lower chakra'.

 

My next step would be that my mind gets filled with shallow conspiracy theories through the BS I have clicked on youtube a few times where it's talked about a sort of emotional "milking process" keeping us here in fear.

 

And here is the wish for higher guidance. But wouldnt this higher guidance not work as a cheat?

 

To name the best example, the worst fear of an human individual: Death and how Guru's and whatnot speak about it. They claim it's no problem and the rainbow is beyond, but only do so because their higher aspect allows them to see more of the greater spectrum of life. Drasticly speaking: Wouldnt it be more helpful for your own's Higher evolution to actively be those bits and gore on someones hood? Arent we here in an endless cycle of respawn anyway? Isnt matter expendable and available in an endless reservoir? Yes and yes. But something keeps me away from doing this. What is it?

 

You even speak of 'making sense' - what is sense? What makes sense is Bias. Bias makes sense haha! It's true.

 

Maybe we should reduce the amount of questions that we ask from time to time and rather directly ask for what we want.

 

Edit: Why can I sit in meditation and say and believe "Higher Aspect embody me more fully" and get different kinds of sensations I have never had before? I dont even expect them to be there. Actually I am very often so unconfident in formulating these 'higher wishes' that I unconsciously believe they dont work anyway - but they do, somehow, something works. It must follow your command. You - are it. How about doing this daily? I know I do.

 

Not picture yourself being a higher perspective of yourself, because you get it wrong anyway - rather let it fill you how it wants to. Simple. I know from my experience, that it will repair you.. your body and emotions and thoughts, first. And you can feel this.

 

Yes that’s right without intelligence you are dull, stupid lacking the means of soul evolution like the intellect stupid, lost in fragments therefore within the centre therefore the past.

 

What you gather with intelligence is fundamental to understanding, giving rise to insight which are the tools needed to penetrate the layers of consciousness and unlocking the mechanism of the brain.

 

So you free your mind.

 

Yes you do become something else’s and what that is, is not artificial you merge back into the field which is the unknown because the brain, the centre cannot function outside the known.

 

When you come back from the unknown it is then murdered by the brain cells into little fragments which then pretends as though it is known because you are now back in the organism, the skin bag, and the centre.

 

Otherwise how else can anyone appear as though they know and then turn around and say it cannot be known which of course is a fact, it is a double edge sword.

 

Everything is contradictory.

 

That’s how it must be viewed otherwise you become deluded by the centre gain.

 

Time and space does not exist outside of the “known” therefore it cannot be “known.”

 

You cannot take the known with you when you are in a timeless state because I know, the brain is off therefore no mechanism no recognition.

 

This is the very problem of language it is all within the limitation of the “known” labels, a program therefore within the limitation.

 

If you know when you’re thinking and know when you are not thinking then what does knowing have to do with knowledge?

 

The every attempt to known and seek is the very thing that will distort and retard the very nature of mind because it is all within the centre, the limitation of the known, cellar brain matter.

 

It should be common knowledge by now that the earth is a living soul which as no thought of self, and all life on this planet is in direct consequence of this.

 

Nothing is separate in the greater scheme of things and everything is telepathic is connected.

 

This whole nonsense would be so much easier if you could open your mind and receive, but you wouldn't perceive it away because your entire mind is cocooned by the self, the organism, brain.

 

I am telling you.

 

The universe as already been and gone like a flash and what is left is the way.

 

The nature of perception is faulty, delusional.

 

Like you think because of perception that everything is still and that you are always in an upright position or that things are linear, you live and die than that’s all.

 

These are only some of the examples.

 

Delusional is perception and perception can only be “shifting perception” as quoted if you move into the unknown, then come back into the known then that changes perception.

 

The known cannot change perception because it is a limitation only the unknown can expand, flex and stretch out this limitation because the “unknown” is limitless, the “known” in limited.

 

The unknown and known are not separate, that is the perception of self.

 

This is how you grow and is what is meant by soul evolution.

 

The cockroach and like that tree outside is already in the state of the art, and what you would call enlightened, they have no thought of self, a pristine state of awareness like the earth no thought of self.

 

Death is an illusion because of the human perception of self, I have witness death many of times, and actually you can experience death without the organism dying.

 

There needs to be a from of tactical understanding therefore it needs to make sense.

 

In your mediation realize that you are the observer that is being observed and what you are is observational awareness but can you achieve that without the discriminating self?

 

Can you leave the known and go into the unknown?

 

Don't worry about what is higher or lower in mediation just be like the sky or the universe it does not discriminate between this and that, between fluffy clouds or stormy clouds.

 

Anyway enough said.

Edited December 20, 2013 by Z3N