Man's Destiny - Fixed of Fiddley ?

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Hmmmm

 

Lets see shall we.

 

Why don't you go read my blog.

 

Thank you.

 

I still got Loreena McKennitt's Mummer's Dance playin'..

 

This planet birthed me.

 

Yet I have parents.

 

None of you would have the strength to take my revelations.

 

None of you would have the strength to do what I did.

 

No.

 

I think not.

 

...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

edited dont want to spam but probably should be allowed to should i start my own thread? i prefer to use others when granted permission you see..

Edited December 19, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[Jeff]

....

 

Anyone here know anything about a 'switch-over point' in a man's destiny ???

 

You people must have felt it. YOU MUST HAVE !

 

I remember my switch-over point all too well and I cant for the life of me, do a darn thing unless its in-line with the will of my spirit. Its an overwhelming feeling of being locked-in.

 

 

Hi Chegg,

 

Interesting concept. Could you describe a little more about what you mean? Are you saying that you are somehow separate from your spirit? How do you know what is the will of your spirit? Do you know the future and what is mapped out for you? What happens if you fight it?

 

Thanks,

Jeff

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Thanks chegg. Your understanding is similiar to my own intuitions.

 

There is never a 100% chance of things working out a particular way.

...

Edited December 20, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[BaguaKicksAss]

Hi Jeff,

 

These questions have been bugging me for years and years. Particularly the one related to the point at which your destiny becomes unchangeable. Which, according to some teachings, occurs at the time the individual gets 'thrown on the path'.

 

ie.,

 

1 .Normal guy goes thru life having a party, getting into mischief, has no chance to live out a destiny but will live an ordinary, mundane life

2. Normal guy has life crisis and asks questions

3. Normal guy gets info from a teacher / church / religion

4a. Now Lucky guy has shift in consciousness at which point a completely new order of things is inaugurated ..he is no longer under the law...but under grace.

4b. Lucky guy is now under the supervision of the holy spirit

4c. Lucky guy's destiny cannot be altered because a life's path was set and laid out for him in this instant.

5. Lucky guy finds that, although he tries to do things against that path which is set out for him, he cant deviate an inch from that strange destiny. He feels locked-in and compelled to do certain tasks.

 

Its 4c. I wish to know more about. Has anyone had this feeling/knowing. Does it apply to all people thrown onto 'the path'. Is there even any truth to it ?

 

 

 

edit: I'm not even sure if i've worded the descriptions correctly. But have a go at interpretation anyway

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bless you Jeff

:wub: :wub:

 

I think it starts out when (or before) we were born .

 

Though I'm still going with fiddly...

[Jeff]

 

Hi Jeff,

 

These questions have been bugging me for years and years. Particularly the one related to the point at which your destiny becomes unchangeable. Which, according to some teachings, occurs at the time the individual gets 'thrown on the path'.

 

ie.,

 

1 .Normal guy goes thru life having a party, getting into mischief, has no chance to live out a destiny but will live an ordinary, mundane life

2. Normal guy has life crisis and asks questions

3. Normal guy gets info from a teacher / church / religion

4a. Now Lucky guy has shift in consciousness at which point a completely new order of things is inaugurated ..he is no longer under the law...but under grace.

4b. Lucky guy is now under the supervision of the holy spirit

4c. Lucky guy's destiny cannot be altered because a life's path was set and laid out for him in this instant.

5. Lucky guy finds that, although he tries to do things against that path which is set out for him, he cant deviate an inch from that strange destiny. He feels locked-in and compelled to do certain tasks.

 

Its 4c. I wish to know more about. Has anyone had this feeling/knowing. Does it apply to all people thrown onto 'the path'. Is there even any truth to it ?

 

edit: I'm not even sure if i've worded the descriptions correctly. But have a go at interpretation anyway

 

Bless you Jeff

:wub: :wub:

Hi Chegg,

 

Thank you for your overview (and the blessing). From my perspective you have declared the list complete a little early. A few more steps for your consideration (and discussion)...

 

6. Lucky guy begins to experience "oneness" with the Holy Spirit and realizes that he is really not human/person constrained to the local body-mind. Begins to realize co-creation, but still holds onto plausible deniability.

7. Lucky guy further integrates with the Holy Spirit and finds that he can "shift" to other beings or define future light body form. Accepts responsibility for co-creation.

8. Lucky guy realizes full integration with the Holy Spirit and realizes the the primordial nature of God. Lucky guy is now infinitely free or infinitely trapped, depending on your perspective.

 

Have a Merry Christmas everyone!

 

p.s. My perspective is that at 4c you finally realize the role you have been playing is locked in. The key is realizing that you are not the character that you are playing.

 

(Edit - added p.s.)

Edited December 20, 2013 by Jeff

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

...

[Nungali]

 

I would welcome Nungali's opinion here but I will remember not to give him the love blessings.

 

 

here, in response to BKA

 

 

Imposing your will onto others doesn't sound like a nice thing to do. I wonder if it would be ok to do that to someone if they ask for your help ?

She said 'change others' and YOU changed her words to 'impose your will onto others' ... was that a double-reverse back flip there?

 

 

I wonder if it would be ok to do that to someone if they ask for your help ?

Do what? What she said or what you changed it into; the first ... go ask anyone that has been to a surgeon or a dentist ... the second ? Ask your self because you just did it via imposing your will/judgment on interpreting BKA's words.

 

I have people challenge me on magick the same way ... "Oh, you are a power tripper trying to change things!" My resoponse? "What? You never put up an umbrella to keep dry?"

 

Happy now ?

Edited December 21, 2013 by Nungali

[Nungali]

I suppose I will offer my view

 

Somewhere ... was it here ? Some genius wrote a little para on destiny and fate and what differentiated them ... IMO it was a great little piece.?

 

IMO we have a destiny or circle of expansion, we can not go beyond that, but its limit may be beyond what we imagine. The limitation is usually in our mind, and we can break through that to manifest our full destiny ... but either ( expansion or failure to expand) isn't part of fate or destiny .... that is up to us.

 

But we cant GO BEYOND that - sorry, no breatharianism or immortality of the physical body

 

<ducks various thrown objects and missiles >

[BaguaKicksAss]

.

[BaguaKicksAss]

<-- hacking destiny for 43 years and counting

[Nungali]

I think my view still applies to those situations .... destiny is laid out ... like a long path with some essential side tracks (to gain a bigger picture). Its up to you (and ? ) how far or if you go along that path and if you or others stop it.

 

Otherwise we have no choice and others have no chance to intervene for good or bad.

 

Of course there is the unanswerable question; :"What if xyz never happened ... or did happen or A never killed B ... pointless postulations IMO as unless we go back in time and do it different we can never know ... and to postulate on the unknowable IMO is not a good use of the philosophical facilities

 

I wish I knew where that destiny / fate thing was ... I will have a look.

Edited December 21, 2013 by Nungali

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think my view still applies to those situations .... destiny is laid out ... like a long path with some essential side tracks (to gain a bigger picture). Its up to you (and ? ) how far or if you go along that path and if you or others stop it.

 

Otherwise we have no choice and others have no chance to intervene for good or bad.

 

Of course there is the unanswerable question; :"What if xyz never happened ... or did happen or A never killed B ... pointless postulations IMO as unless we go back in time and do it different we can never know ... and to postulate on the unknowable IMO is not a good use of the philosophical facilities

 

I wish I knew where that destiny / fate thing was ... I will have a look.

 

So say you can see your destiny (or someone else's for that matter) and you want to go changing it?

[BaguaKicksAss]

What if t his painter had been more successful selling his works and did make it into art school?

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintings_by_Adolf_Hitler

 

PS never stifle an artist .

[Nungali]

 

So say you can see your destiny (or someone else's for that matter) and you want to go changing it?

Good luck ... but how do we know it was changed without the 'control experiment' as I said above ?

[Nungali]

What if t his painter had been more successful selling his works and did make it into art school?

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paintings_by_Adolf_Hitler

 

PS never stifle an artist .

 

He would maybe have painted a lot of pics like this ... I like it ... it has a certain gothic appeal of power ... maybe I study him and start an art movement and inspire people to explore this power ... maybe a whole bunch of us band together ... now instead of one frustrated maniac we have 63 inspired maniacs ... I know lets start a political party the Nationalist Anti Zen Industrialists party.

 

... Again, no control experiment.

 

No matter one's 'destiny' one can still be hit by a lightening bolt and that may or may not be part of it , who knows <shrug>

 

Like I said before; I don't know why I am still alive.

[dawei]

Destiny is from outside; Direction is from inside.

 

I sense the two are confused.

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[chegg]

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Edited March 28, 2015 by chegg

[Nungali]

 

I wish I knew where that destiny / fate thing was ... I will have a look.

Here it is;

 

Philosophically the question is not logically answerable. But I liked this little outline:

X was Fated to have had a normal life.

His Free Will caused him to kill .

His Destiny will be prison for the rest of his life.

 

Other snippets of conversation I liked (One is Nungali, another a retired professor of mathematics – he goes first):

 

Free will applies to things we think we may be able to control; fate refers to things which we think are beyond our control

 

Destiny is the sum of our choices but we imagine it in reverse - as is laid out for us already and we are heading to a defined destination (that’s why there seems a discrepancy when what we thought was, or might be destiny, changes by a choice of ourselves or others to interact with us … or others events; ‘happenstance’ - randomness exists.

 

or some such foolish fantasy of the ego, which always tries to occupy center stage.

 

Life is but a dream, but it doesn't necessarily go merrily along like the rowboat in the song.

 

What we call reality is the dream of the Lord Vishnu, iconographically depicted as a Lotus growing out of Vishnu's naval as he sleeps. His dream is not only creative, but is impacted by other entities, such as Shiva and Kali, forces of change, transformation, destruction. If not for destruction, the dream bubble would become too full and burst; the Lotus would topple under its own weight; and all creation would vanish instantly.

 

Meanwhile we (myself included, of course) muddle along with our puny egoistic fantasies of free will and fate and destiny and karma and our illusion of being an autonomous entity of some sort.

 

Whatever happens is in no way dependent on whether one believes in free will or fate. These are just attitudes, no more, no less, just a result of linear thinking. Reality is not linear. In Relativity Theory (which is no longer just a theory) it can even be impossible to distinguish between past, present, and future, nor is it possible to synchronize two clocks in different locations in the universe, since it is impossible for communication to be instantaneous, and the speeds at which the hands of the clocks move are dependent on the relative velocities of the clocks.

 

A Christian told me ; “God gives you free will so that you can learn and grow, but sometimes God comes in and says ‘Oh no that's just too screwed up’ and doesn't let it happen."

 

That’s pretty strange then considering what this Christian God DOES allow !

 

Yes … well, randomness exists.

 

I have come to some conclusions then; that life is rather random; that fate hinges on the actions of others, whom are in turn influenced by others yet again; that free will puts me to a great extent where I am; d) that my destiny is the sum of my choices; that my karma is to learn what I can from my choices, and the reactions of others to those choices - hopefully to thereby evolve and that there is, I still believe, an element of Mystery present, people seem to ‘bring things with them’ when they are born?

 

Yes ... even genetics seem to 'rule' us more than we realised; the twin girls seperated at infancy, bought up totally different, half a planet apart had an identical hair flicking motion, the twin brothers a continent apart having identical sun spots on their skin.

 

But still ... it IS an interesting question philosophical QUESTION , regardless of us unable to come to a conclusion; If I jump into the flooding river, I am bound to be swept away. If I do it 'mindfully' I may end up exactly where 'I' want to go.

 

I liked the story of the dream of Vishnu but for me, in my land, it's the Rainbow Serpent's dream ... the' knack' is, knowing it IS a dream ... and one's PLACE in that dream.

 

And here ego can be tricky … we cant it here , traditionally and culturally like we are used to … one’s place in the dreaming (the living world now projected from the dreamtime) , traditionally is outlined by law and strict adherence , throughout a myriad facets of life; social contacts, marriage, hunting and food, territory ways of making things .. all set out - with an evolving and improving factor but severely limited, primarily by ecology – relationship to land and place as an integral component of religion and spirituality.

 

But now, in MANY places the land is broken … ‘Broken Song’ so that link is different, even if broken land is part of the dreaming it has changed the harmony between people and law. So there is now a searching for one’s place in the dream because it may not be culturally outlined for you anymore.

 

Maybe that’s why they say ‘New Dreaming’.

 

Now we have new culture; traditional culture/ multicultural/western/global.

 

WE all cant ignore place and location anymore, one of the significant things Aboriginal culture has taught Anthropology is the primal importance of connection to location spiritually for healthy societies and cultures.

 

Find our place in the dream , or be born into it and ‘know it’ … live it out , or find it.

 

Maybe big snake likes a dream more where he hasn’t worked out the ending – ‘experimental theatre’ … and maybe like ‘God’, described in the Christian opinion above , he lets us work it out , but sometimes we get to gross and he takes over ‘Alright you guys …that’s going too far.’ Maybe like when our dreams are a bit much and choose to modify them … or ‘attend to them’? because they don’t want to go in the direction the dream is going?

 

Well then, big snake has some weird dreams too .

 

They weren’t that weird until we came along . Everything was regulated and that was how the dreaming was going.

 

So what happened.

 

I don’t know … something disturbed the dream. Worlds/dreams collided? All part of one dream? If I remember rightly, all the land form to the west ranges and north and south along them was formed by a fight between a giant rainbow serpent and a goanna …. Somehow started by a giant bush turkey going around digging up sacred sites.

 

There’s some food for thought !

Edited December 21, 2013 by Nungali

[Nungali]

 

I thought she meant by 'changing others' she was actually meaning to say "imposing her will to changing others' destiny" mainly because 'destiny' was the topic under discussion.

 

 

Oh ... I know that is what you thought she said ... I didn't think it was deliberate ... I was trying to demonstrate something, but it doesn't matter, as you say:

 

Anyway, the question I was more interested in is (and I'll try and be a bit more clear) "Is it ok to impose your will onto someone and alter their destiny if they ask you for help"

 

An example would be If a woman approaches you and says "Could you please help me find a husband". Then you do some type of sorcery, magic whatever, which overrides her free will and forces her up to meet a man and then marry that man.

 

Huh ! That sound to me ...if a woman approached me and said that then I would assume that what she said was free will, why does helping her over ride her free will and force her .. that was what she declared she wanted .

 

 

 

 

 

It does not sound like the most ethical of methods come to think of it. It would be analogous to grabbing her by the arm and dragging her to a church, holding her there and then dragging some bloke there and forcing the priest to marry them.

 

Well dude I have no idea what sort of magic you do or what sort of magick you think I do but this IS really weird to me ... maybe you are just guessing at something out of your depth ... what do you think magick is anyway?

 

If a woman wanted me to that with magick this is how it would go ... I prescribe Liber Astarte, and of course Venus would be the deity ... maybe with something thrown in to help the marriage angle (depending on what she wanted to get out of marriage, companion, security, children, I might throw a tarot to help her define it and also look at her natal astrology and her current transits (including stella and asterisms) and other things to see if I could establish a trend here or not .

She would have to get dolled up pretty good for the rite, correct scent (incense / perfume) and and and etc etc. Of course there would be lots of sex with me in the right too

 

After a while she would be looking great, smelling great, glowing !!! ... her confidence and energy is boosted, her life is turning around she is doing great. Who can resist her , Mr Right comes along and it is ding-dong .... or maybe she feels so good she changes her mind and goes 'you know what I feel sooo good in myself I don't want to get married now. Fine ... whatever .

 

Your scenario is sorta like the woman says something she doesn't mean, I grab a shotgun and some guy and march 'em to the altar ... sorry I just do not get it

 

 

 

(blessings and love blobs omitted)

 

 

You cant help yourself can you

 

Okay ... now you are going to get it ...

 

A relevant joke;

 

Mullah Nasruddin goes to visit a friend,

 

"Mullah, I am on my out visiting people, come with me."

 

'OH no, I cannot, I am not dressed for the occasion, I have no coat."

 

"Don't worry, I will lend you my best coat."

 

First house they are introduced to the friends and they comment, "Pleased to meet you Mullah ... and my what a beautiful coat you have there,"

 

"Yes it is isn't it ..." and everyone admires it and looks at it and comments and all the attention is on the Mullah.

 

On the way to the next house the friend says, "Why did you do that, you took credit for my coat and all the attention of my visit?"

 

"I am sorry" said the Mullah, "It will not happen again. I did not realise it would upset you"

 

At the next house - same thing; "Pleased to meet you Mullah ... and my what a beautiful coat you have there."

 

"Yes it is, but it isn't my coat, it is Abdul's , he loaned it to me so the attention should be really given to him."

 

Everyone looks at Abdul a bit strange.

 

On the way to the next house the friend says, "Why did you do that? That was so embarrassing! What is wrong with you, don't do that. When we go to the next house don't say anything about the coat all right ? Nothing! "

 

"I am sorry, I didn't realise that would upset you ... we shall do as you whish.

 

At the next house - same thing; "Pleased to meet you Mullah ... and my what a beautiful coat you have there."

 

"Shhhhh ! " The Mullah tells them , "Don't any one say any thing about Abdul's coat! "

Edited December 22, 2013 by Nungali