How to bring a family member to self-reflect?

[4bsolute]

Is this even possible?

 

I am glad that I am at a point where these destructive patterns a certain individual of my family puts out on a constant basis does not further affect or disturb me anymore.

 

But all this unnecessary suffering. Can you bring a self-induldged individual to self-reflect, when it is also still thinking or acting in patterns of self-blame from time to time?

 

My attempts so far in pointing out what goes wrong is seen as "you are the holy person, I am (the individual) the failure" and at the same time miraculously every bit (!) that leaves the individuals mouth is Exactly stating what goes wrong with it. It's like the higher perspective already lets the individual know what goes wrong, but instead of keeping it for itself, it vents it towards others.

 

Example: "because of persons like you we have war on this planet, being egoistic and not caring for anything" totally not seeing that this is exactly brought down to the case of the individual: Seeing only itself (victim, ergo selfish) venting anger towards the outside (war in a small scale).

 

I know that it is okay to leave everything as it is. If someone wants to point out that I should leave everything as it is, please write it out loud so that my mind is aware of it.

 

Any chance of active help or 'force' or let it all fall to pieces, for the individual to ultimatelly realize what was done.

 

Unfortunatelly such higher concepts of "we create our own reality" does not apply in any case. The individual is far away from such realizations.

 

Ideas?

 

Edit: What I have learned out of it while letting the rage heat up my surroundings and I was in a stage of yin, whittling my vegetables for dinner..

Edited December 17, 2013 by 4bsolute

[C T]

Sometimes it would take many, many years for difficult relationships to resolve, and in some instances, they never do, until death parts each other. Rather unfortunate.

 

In my limited view, for resolution to have a chance to evolve, i would tend to encourage increased concentration on pacifying one's basic and subtle desires so that when this particular fire is extinguished, the fruit would be the extinction of reactionary tendencies, and when reactionary tendencies have been tamed, then whatever arises outside of oneself ceases to perturb and displace one's equilibrium, and fundamentally, it is this equilibrium which would ultimately be responsible for creating a space for the other person to be able to see that there is actually a way out of self-inflicted aggression.

 

Please note that i am not offering advice. Merely speaking from my own shallow experience with such encounters.

[thelerner]

 

Is this even possible?

 

My attempts so far in pointing out what goes wrong is seen as "you are the holy person, I am (the individual) the failure"

 

Example: "because of persons like you we have war on this planet, being egoistic and not caring for anything" totally not seeing that this is exactly brought down to the case of the individual: Seeing only itself (victim, ergo selfish) venting anger towards the outside (war in a small scale).

 

Ideas?

Um, so You are telling Him things like 'Because of persons like you we have war on the planet..'?

<later edit>Whoops my misreading, sorry.

 

If so, then I can see how that is met with sarcasm and isn't effective. Maybe you need visuals? Show him pictures, bloody bodies, rape and scenes of mass destruction you're pinning on him.

 

kidding, I assume he thinks you come off as a self righteous and holy er-than-thou offensive. If you want to reach him imo, you'll need a different tact. Often the best thing is wordless, being a good example and open to conversation with him. Thats conversation, not preaching, about weather, sports, life, groceries not about how they should change. Being a good example is the best way to effect change in a person you're close to.

Edited December 17, 2013 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

If you have a problem with your family member, you have a problem. Resolve that yourself. If you can't resolve it, how do you expect them to?

If they have any hope in changing as a result of something that you do, that something will be leaving them alone completely and giving them space...or even trying your hardest NOT to change them. Do the opposite. Love who they currently are, and watch them change.

We all fortify our current position against an outside force, becoming obstinate instead of strong. When there is no force, we open and grow. We all do the opposite of what we're told is right, because we want to see the second opinion.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Tell them they are awesome and that you love them .

 

Works for me....

[4bsolute]

Um, so You are telling Him things like 'Because of persons like you we have war on the planet..'?

 

If so, then I can see how that is met with sarcasm and isn't effective. Maybe you need visuals? Show him pictures, bloody bodies, rape and scenes of mass destruction you're pinning on him.

 

kidding, I assume he thinks you come off as a self righteous and holy er-than-thou offensive. If you want to reach him imo, you'll need a different tact. Often the best thing is wordless, being a good example and open to conversation with him. Thats conversation, not preaching, about weather, sports, life, groceries not about how they should change. Being a good example is the best way to effect change in a person you're close to.

 

No, that is the individuals opinion about my self. But good that you've pointed it out. When I edited that post for spelling, I was about to add in bracket that it comes from the individual I speak of, not from me.

 

So action. Action through someones thick-bias-glasses. What else. Until then, silence.

 

If you have a problem with your family member, you have a problem. Resolve that yourself. If you can't resolve it, how do you expect them to?

 

If they have any hope in changing as a result of something that you do, that something will be leaving them alone completely and giving them space...or even trying your hardest NOT to change them. Do the opposite. Love who they currently are, and watch them change.

 

We all fortify our current position against an outside force, becoming obstinate instead of strong. When there is no force, we open and grow. We all do the opposite of what we're told is right, because we want to see the second opinion.

 

Yep. It's obvious that I have a problem. Even if they would go out and kill babies and rape pets, if it concerns me, I have a problem. As hard as it sounds but it always comes down to it.

 

We cant find solutions if we stay in that space of "I have a problem with you, because it doesnt feel good to me". That only means I want to solve that problem I have, because I want to change You because >>>I<<< do not feel good.

Edited December 16, 2013 by 4bsolute

[Jadespear]

Stare at them very hard and pierce their soul through their eyes, and let them know where your coming from.

 

Do you want them to change their opinions about something you hold as true, or do you want them to agree with you? Either option is futile as people only ever truly listen to and act from a basis of self knowledge to direct their lives. Let go.

Edited December 16, 2013 by Jadespear

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Wise words from turtleshell and Jadespear.

 

To live in relationship can be the most difficult thing.

 

And you are all awesome and I love you.

 

...

[Seth Ananda]

http://timehack.org/3-seconds-to-answer-or-youre-dead-what-did-you-wanna-be/

[Brian]

The best way to get someone to follow is to lead. If you are true to yourself and exhibit the qualities you profess AND others notice a persistent state of healthy serenity, they might ask why/how.

 

Happened to me twice this weekend in my wife's presence and it really irritates her when people ask.

 

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

I read your link Seth Ananda.

 

Hmm.

 

Fight Club.

 

Never seen it.

 

I don't need 3 seconds to think about it.

 

I might need more than 3 seconds to say it.

 

And I am about it.

 

In a round about sort of Way.

 

...

Edited December 16, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[4bsolute]

The best way to get someone to follow is to lead. If you are true to yourself and exhibit the qualities you profess AND others notice a persistent state of healthy serenity, they might ask why/how.

 

Happened to me twice this weekend in my wife's presence and it really irritates her when people ask.

 

 

Humans, getting confused and rarely seeing change. I get that aswell. Glad I am mostly in a position of where your wife saw you. Keep it up, it's very helpful for your development. I mediate naturally a state of authority, which I aknowledge and never ponder upon since I was told and it stood that way. This state is helpful but you have to balance it with kindness. Since its hard yang. For some reason this state is seen by everyone I encounter except my mother, she sees it as dick-out. I rarely speak words of wisdom with her since she thinks she knows it all.

 

Never knew that I would turn from a very yin teenager to so much yang in my mid20s now. Gotta love to balance it

 

Mothers? Curious beings arent they sometimes..

 

Yes, the individual I was speaking about was / is my mother. But it doesnt matter. Could be anyone else. I make no excuses about family members towards 'strangers' - everyone is equal in my chest. Had the "how do you talk to your mother?!!" special place in abusive situations oh-too-often!

Edited December 16, 2013 by 4bsolute

[Harmonious Emptiness]

A good strategy is analyzing yourself - talk about your own struggle with these things you would like to see him deal with without suggesting he deal with them. After all, we can learn a lot about our mistakes by seeing other people make them. When you see his errors, try to turn around and see how you can improve on these things, or at least how you would like to improve on them for your personal growth. It opens the dialogue about the fact that such things are important, and he might choose to improve -himself- rather than live up to your expectations of him - which is likely what he feels you want him to do. He needs to make the move and goal for himself. It's his journey. He can only part when he's ready, and his ego might be like the training wheels that are helping him along in meantime - be careful about suggesting you want to remove them as this might be a very intimidating suggestion, not to mention insulting whether true or not.

[soaring crane]

Can you bring a self-induldged individual to self-reflect, when it is also still thiom time to time?

 

Nein

[liminal_luke]

If you have a problem with your family member, you have a problem. Resolve that yourself. If you can't resolve it, how do you expect them to?

 

If they have any hope in changing as a result of something that you do, that something will be leaving them alone completely and giving them space...or even trying your hardest NOT to change them. Do the opposite. Love who they currently are, and watch them change.

 

We all fortify our current position against an outside force, becoming obstinate instead of strong. When there is no force, we open and grow. We all do the opposite of what we're told is right, because we want to see the second opinion.

 

This sounds right, and I think it might be. But boy is it to pull off. Not easy to adopt a "no force" position towards someone whose mentally ill for instance. Actually I do believe that the kind of peace, and non-judgemental acceptance implied by "leaving them alone" can disentangle depression, suicidality. It's not so simple as just holding your tongue though. This kind of leading by example requires masterful aikido-esque nimbleness of spirit, a kind of do-nothing-and-yet-everything-is-done quality that, while it may not be as flashy as levitation or walking through walls, definately qualifies as a siddhi.

 

Changing ourselves is hard enough. Changing another person, especially a family member, is a whole nother level of difficulty.

 

Liminal

Edited December 16, 2013 by liminal_luke

[chegg]

Sounds like you might have a petty tyrant on your hands. I can recommend praying to God and sending lots of love to your family member.

 

"Dear Heavenly Father, I ask in the name of your son, Jesus Christ, to help me and my other family member to get along really well without any more troubles, animosity, annoyances or fighting. Please help this family member to self reflect and realize the effect that their behavior has on me and on others." Thank you Lord God. Amen

 

 

 

 

 

Blessings of Harmony in your Family

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

[C T]

some tips may hopefully be found in this clip. if not, no problem. Best wishes all the same.

 

[4bsolute]

This sounds right, and I think it might be. But boy is it to pull off. Not easy to adopt a "no force" position towards someone whose mentally ill for instance. Actually I do believe that the kind of peace, and non-judgemental acceptance implied by "leaving them alone" can disentangle depression, suicidality. It's not so simple as just holding your tongue though. This kind of leading by example requires masterful aikido-esque nimbleness of spirit, a kind of do-nothing-and-yet-everything-is-done quality that, while it may not be as flashy as levitation or walking through walls, definately qualifies as a siddhi.

 

Changing ourselves is hard enough. Changing another person, especially a family member, is a whole nother level of difficulty.

 

Liminal

 

Oh you get used to it.. I really got thankful this morning after reflection. I mean thanks to this "tyrant" I have at my home, I was able to come across a deeper understanding about energy transmutation, that I otherwise got whoknowswhen.

[4bsolute]

some tips may hopefully be found in this clip. if not, no problem. Best wishes all the same.

 

 

Yes C T I know Bhante's videos. I watched them at the beginning of my journey and found them super dry, because I there had no conception about the neutrality he lives in. To watch this, as a beginner and then try to apply this in our lives was next to impossible. But now, a short time later - everything works.

 

So never drop what 'seems' impossible at the first place, just your momentary bias. I take a pinch of these, a pinch of him, a pinch of someone else I find useful.. all puzzle pieces to refine my personal approach to life. Never fully copying 'one style'.

 

Thanks

Edited December 17, 2013 by 4bsolute

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

I take a pinch of these, a pinch of him, a pinch of someone else I find useful.. all puzzle pieces to refine my personal approach to life. Never fully copying 'one style'.

 

That's right!

 

You need yer own style man!

 

You've either got or you haven't got... Style!

 

You can't copy.

 

You simply can't.

 

Can't be done.

 

"Of thine own Head be thy Feeder.

Let thine own Sense be thy Leader!"

 

...

Edited December 17, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[C T]

To watch this, as a beginner and then try to apply this in our lives was next to impossible. But now, a short time later - everything works.

 

So never drop what 'seems' impossible at the first place, just your momentary bias. I take a pinch of these, a pinch of him, a pinch of someone else I find useful.. all puzzle pieces to refine my personal approach to life. Never fully copying 'one style'.

Its always good to have the attitude of not copying 'one style' or following, blindly in some cases, without having also been given the encouragement to use one's own power of discernment to take on board what is useful and discard what is not. This essential point has always been present within the Buddhist path, with practitioners being reminded again and again to use their own investigative abilities to put teachings against life situations and see if they work or not.

 

The Buddha even said that nothing works forever, there are no principles set in stone, and, as one moves forward and onward, what has worked will eventually change. Once whats useful has been integrated, then its time to let go and move to the next level. Only then will true lightness get a chance to manifest. There is no helpfulness in lobbing the raft on one's shoulders once the stream is crossed... a well-worn analogy.

 

Its clear you have developed this discerning aptitude. Well done.

[BaguaKicksAss]

some tips may hopefully be found in this clip. if not, no problem. Best wishes all the same.

 

 

This guy is awesome!

[BaguaKicksAss]

I guess thinking about it, it is not what Sifu has said to me that has created the best impressions and the most change, but more watching how he is, and seeing how he practices, and who he is, is what has inspired me the most and helped bring about the most change . He's a very good influence.

[Z3N]

If I was you I would first humble myself spherically in all directions allowing compassion and understanding to shine forth being soft and flexible with acceptance rather then force my friend, it doesn't work no matter how much or how great your cause might be.

 

Just be the sky.

 

With this your actions will eventually ware down the rock in the sea, like water, be patience and reflective don't expect to much from her or yourself for that matter.

Edited December 18, 2013 by Z3N

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

You can't, can you?

 

It seems to me you can't "bring" anyone to self reflect.

 

I suppose what I mean is, that it seems to me you can't "make" any other person self reflect.

 

It's difficult enough getting oneself to self-reflect!

 

...

Edited December 18, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell