Does cultivation make other people anxious around you?

[Aetherous]

Answer to OP: yes, practicing things will make people's interactions with you kind of weird compared to normal. Silence of mind generally means less conversation, which can be awkward. People interpret silence as being threatening to them most of the time, because they can't tell what you're thinking.

Methods that dissolve the sense of self are helpful (for instance, red phoenix in Kunlun does this)...people will be much more comfortable around you, and this is on an energetic level. Self-consciousness is the source of discomfort, and everyone feels it...very awkward. So it's good to lose the sense of self completely.

And then if you just try to keep up interesting conversation, it will help take their mind off of any awkwardness, and they'll feel better. It's similar to when hearing a good story...you're totally absorbed in that and not even thinking of yourself at all. It's elevating, and causes the mind to go with the flow which feels better.

Honestly, it's best not to focus on these kinds of awkward effects though, because they can snowball into something bigger...for instance, if you have the impression that social interaction is going to be awkward because you practice, it will be. If you have no impression, it might be or it might not be...and if it is then you just try to lighten the mood. So it's good to let these things go and actually take control of your life, rather than letting temporary side effects control you and making it into some sort of neurosis.

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

 

Honestly, it's best not to focus on these kinds of awkward effects though, because they can snowball into something bigger...for instance, if you have the impression that social interaction is going to be awkward because you practice, it will be. If you have no impression, it might be or it might not be...and if it is then you just try to lighten the mood. So it's good to let these things go and actually take control of your life, rather than letting temporary side effects control you and making it into some sort of neurosis.

 

I am psychologically a great deal healthier than I used to be.

 

No, really.

 

I love small talk now, with people in public. Yes real people in the real world.

 

I used to find social contact difficult, get all jittery and high energy just like the op, or silent and withdrawn.

 

Maybe I haven't changed so much.

 

There are so many similarities between the experiences of the people on this forum.

 

But you are making me feel sad!

 

I am missing my magpie familiars!

 

They won't come here!

 

There are no trees!

 

I must get to the park!

 

They will meet me there.

 

I have two magpie familiars, Chitter and Chatter (boddhi citta).

 

Chitter is female. A chitter. A counter.

 

Chatter is very talkative. He is the male.

 

He got big flapping beak.

 

Like me.

 

...

Edited December 18, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[HoldorFold]

From my pov 99.999% of earth's population dies at the same level they were born into this world at.

 

Cultivation can have a massive effect on how people react to you. I remember a day when I spent ages doing energy work on my legs and dantian and that day everyone was staring at me when I was walking around. As I was queing up to get into a restaurant later, I had one girl stop and turn around and just stare at me for over 2 minutes straight.

 

The previous day I was just floating around like a nobody.

 

A similar thing goes for semen retention / jing cultivation. There's a huge difference in the way people react to me when I've been cultivating jing.

 

*Also, there's a guy I've read on this forum.. Pythagoreanfulllotus... Drew something or other. His accounts are full of people reacting to his energy fluctuations.

Edited December 19, 2013 by HoldorFold

[i am]

*Also, there's a guy I've read on this forum.. Pythagoreanfulllotus... Drew something or other. His accounts are full of people reacting to his energy fluctuations.

 

 

His accounts are certainly full of something...

[liminal_luke]

People are anxious around me. I don't cultivate that much really, so that can't be it. Must be all the time I spend lurking around on Taobums.

 

Liminal

Edited December 19, 2013 by liminal_luke

[Dolokhov]

I'd think "cultivation" should make you more genuine, more approachable. This should draw people closer to you.

 

The Buddha said that we should have compassion for all people, so did Lao Tzu, so did Jesus. You can't rightly be compassionate (which comes from the Latin, "suffering with") if you stand on a different level from the rest of the world. You have to be down in the valley with it:

 

"The greatest good is like water.
Water benefits all things,
yet conflicts with none;
it dwells in places scorned by most.
In this way it holds close to the Way."

-Tao Te Ching, chapter 8

Edited December 19, 2013 by Dolokhov

[Aetherous]

True cultivation is very challenging!

[C T]

When cultivation is selfish, naturally anxiety would arise in others, and self.

 

When cultivation is completely directed towards bringing benefit to others, then there is only a little room for anxiety to arise.

 

Investigate deeply what openness means. If one's focus is directed only at self-benefit as the primary objective, then the possibility of contraction becomes very real indeed. Contracting-ness and openness cannot occur simultaneously. Openness is synonymous with expansion, and expansion is synonymous with all-inclusiveness. Those with a penchant for understanding the deeper meanings of non-dual wisdom and compassion could perhaps speak on this in more detail.

 

I think this clip goes some way to address the OP --

 

[BaguaKicksAss]

When cultivation is selfish, naturally anxiety would arise in others, and self.

 

When cultivation is completely directed towards bringing benefit to others, then there is only a little room for anxiety to arise.

 

Investigate deeply what openness means. If one's focus is directed only at self-benefit as the primary objective, then the possibility of contraction becomes very real indeed. Contracting-ness and openness cannot occur simultaneously. Openness is synonymous with expansion, and expansion is synonymous with all-inclusiveness. Those with a penchant for understanding the deeper meanings of non-dual wisdom and compassion could perhaps speak on this in more detail.

 

I think this clip goes some way to address the OP --

 

Hmmm, so how about those awesome workings to gain Siddhis or powers?

 

I've done a couple of those... very enlightening in many aspects... but definitely a different road/aspect to the whole serve others stuff. Though said siddhis or powers can be used solely to help others I guess.

 

Which is the better path though, personally I wonder if both, balance. Yes I'm biased, and love all aspects of my art.

Edited December 19, 2013 by BaguaKicksAss

[Apech]

Hmmm, so how about those awesome workings to gain Siddhis or powers?

 

I've done a couple of those... very enlightening in many aspects... but definitely a different road/aspect to the whole serve others stuff. Though said siddhis or powers can be used solely to help others I guess.

 

Which is the better path though, personally I wonder if both, balance. Yes I'm biased, and love all aspects of my art.

 

Properly understood siddhis are opening up the natural abilities of the mind. So to work on siddhis does not conflict with natural compassion and so on.

[BaguaKicksAss]

.

Edited January 12, 2014 by BaguaKicksAss

[Apech]

Oops, my misunderstanding then... I figured the workings and processes involved were similar to the various workings for powers in my magic path (which isn't buddhist or taoist).

 

Changed my earlier post to reflect this .

 

Well that was my understanding but you might be right that there's a difference too.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Well that was my understanding but you might be right that there's a difference too.

 

In my experience there is also something external "given" and also some "help" (I really can't go into details, but I'm sure you get what I mean). The growth factor is from the challenges, and terrifyingness of the actual working. You really can't do those workings with ego, at all, whatsoever. Well my experiences anyways.

 

I most definitely didn't do mine to help others, I was definitely going for handy powers . Though what I did gain, I most definitely do use to help others as well :>.

[Apech]

In my experience there is also something external "given" and also some "help" (I really can't go into details, but I'm sure you get what I mean). The growth factor is from the challenges, and terrifyingness of the actual working. You really can't do those workings with ego, at all, whatsoever. Well my experiences anyways.

 

I most definitely didn't do mine to help others, I was definitely going for handy powers . Though what I did gain, I most definitely do use to help others as well :>.

 

Yes I get you. I think practical magic is useful though if only to demonstrate to yourself that things work. How they work is a deeper question. Where you end up having used such powers is another question.

[C T]

Hmmm, so how about those awesome workings to gain Siddhis or powers?

 

I've done a couple of those... very enlightening in many aspects... but definitely a different road/aspect to the whole serve others stuff. Though said siddhis or powers can be used solely to help others I guess.

 

Which is the better path though, personally I wonder if both, balance. Yes I'm biased, and love all aspects of my art.

Siddhis... even the term sounds alluring, doesn't it?

 

I think this sort of aim is not a primary one in Buddhist cultivation, as compared to many other yogic paths in India, particularly those of the Aghora school(s) of tantra.

 

There is nothing unworthy about wanting siddhis as long as its accompanied by deep understandings of non-attachment, but this can be very difficult to practice. One may do ok on the outer level in maintaining nonchalance and equanimous poise while developing energetic prowess, but then there are inner levels, and even 'secret' levels to this, where the grasping and ego-centred will can be hard to detect and subsequently pacified.

 

People who follow gurus already demonstrate a puffed-up sense of pride and aloofness in the way that they carry themselves, as if saying, "my guru is the best, yours is only second rate", and then carry themselves along with this distorted reflection in their interactions with others. They cannot see this, but those with keener observations can. So, if this very 'outer' thing is already so prevalent (among buddhist groups, i am saying here), just imagine what could happen if this same 'peoples' are to be trained in the yogas of siddhi cultivation. Henceforth, it would take many years for even one student to be given such an induction, but then, that is never... never have been, the main objective of Buddhist cultivation.

 

On a mundane level, we already possess a lot of siddhic gifts, but again, there is also this 'taken for granted' thing going on all the time. A lot of energy is lost by not harmonising the little we already have and putting these out there to bring benefit to others, with the goal of bringing cessation to our deeply-cherished notions of self before others.

 

(ranting again, sorry)

[Aeran]

Siddhis... even the term sounds alluring, doesn't it?

 

I think this sort of aim is not a primary one in Buddhist cultivation, as compared to many other yogic paths in India, particularly those of the Aghora school(s) of tantra.

 

There is nothing unworthy about wanting siddhis as long as its accompanied by deep understandings of non-attachment, but this can be very difficult to practice. One may do ok on the outer level in maintaining nonchalance and equanimous poise while developing energetic prowess, but then there are inner levels, and even 'secret' levels to this, where the grasping and ego-centred will can be hard to detect and subsequently pacified.

 

People who follow gurus already demonstrate a puffed-up sense of pride and aloofness in the way that they carry themselves, as if saying, "my guru is the best, yours is only second rate", and then carry themselves along with this distorted reflection in their interactions with others. They cannot see this, but those with keener observations can. So, if this very 'outer' thing is already so prevalent (among buddhist groups, i am saying here), just imagine what could happen if this same 'peoples' are to be trained in the yogas of siddhi cultivation. Henceforth, it would take many years for even one student to be given such an induction, but then, that is never... never have been, the main objective of Buddhist cultivation.

 

On a mundane level, we already possess a lot of siddhic gifts, but again, there is also this 'taken for granted' thing going on all the time. A lot of energy is lost by not harmonising the little we already have and putting these out there to bring benefit to others, with the goal of bringing cessation to our deeply-cherished notions of self before others.

 

(ranting again, sorry)

 

I'm curious - is Clairvoyance (and its various subcategories) counted as a siddhi under Buddhism and treated with the same attitude? I've always been taught that it's, if not required, then incredibly beneficial towards spiritual progress and the work entailed, allowing one to see the true nature of reality.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Aeran

[BaguaKicksAss]

I'm curious - is Clairvoyance (and its various subcategories) counted as a siddhi under Buddhism and treated with the same attitude? I've always been taught that it's, if not required, then incredibly beneficial towards spiritual progress and the work entailed, allowing one to see the true nature of reality.

 

If so, some people are born with siddhis (I mean aside from we all already have awesome powers that we just view as normal :>).

[C T]

I'm curious - is Clairvoyance (and its various subcategories) counted as a siddhi under Buddhism and treated with the same attitude? I've always been taught that it's, if not required, then incredibly beneficial towards spiritual progress and the work entailed, allowing one to see the true nature of reality.

If by clairvoyance you mean developing clarity, then yes, that is very much an emphasis on the Buddhist path, especially so when one has the will towards complete omniscience, like the Buddha. Without this clarity, it can be difficult to help others, or to teach and share buddhadharma.

 

Whether it is an essential requirement to see the true nature of reality... hmm, not certain, but i think this is very clearly explained in the first few minutes of the clip i posted earlier.

[Aeran]

If by clairvoyance you mean developing clarity, then yes, that is very much an emphasis on the Buddhist path, especially so when one has the will towards complete omniscience, like the Buddha. Without this clarity, it can be difficult to help others, or to teach and share buddhadharma.

 

Whether it is an essential requirement to see the true nature of reality... hmm, not certain, but i think this is very clearly explained in the first few minutes of the clip i posted earlier.

 

Sounds interesting, I'll go back and watch it

 

 

If so, some people are born with siddhis (I mean aside from we all already have awesome powers that we just view as normal :>).

 

I think that's definitely the case. While I think a lot of psychics and mediums and so forth are just scam artists, there are a handful who seem legitimate, despite not having undergone any spiritual training (in the current life anyway).

 

Sadly I'm not one of those people, I think it would have made things a lot easier when I was trying to get out of my deep seated materialist/reduction/atheist funk Although it's interesting that, as far as I can tell, few of those people go on to actually full train and develop their talents and dedicate themselves to spiritual development.

Edited December 19, 2013 by Aeran

[C T]

Thanks for this, CT.

you got it! Brilliant!

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

I does sound a bit D&D, doesn't it

 

But I suppose they could just as easily call it steps, or tiers, or ranks. Any system of development is going to be divided between markers of achievement.

 

I'm gonna start a thread, maybe in the Off Topic forum (The Pit?) entitled "Spiritual Role Playing."

 

And therein I shall Illuminate the Method.

...

[BaguaKicksAss]

Siddhis... even the term sounds alluring, doesn't it?

 

Hell yeah, a lot more interesting than "powers" . Speaking of which, are they essentially the same thing, or no?

 

I think this sort of aim is not a primary one in Buddhist cultivation, as compared to many other yogic paths in India, particularly those of the Aghora school(s) of tantra.

 

*Wanders off to go look up the Aghora*.... OK perhaps not, I'm sooo not there yet. My ego really loves electricity, clothing, food .

 

There is nothing unworthy about wanting siddhis as long as its accompanied by deep understandings of non-attachment, but this can be very difficult to practice. One may do ok on the outer level in maintaining nonchalance and equanimous poise while developing energetic prowess, but then there are inner levels, and even 'secret' levels to this, where the grasping and ego-centred will can be hard to detect and subsequently pacified.

 

I doubt I started in a state of non-attachment when I started my workings . (not saying I am there yet, just saying I was a lot less there back then lol). Though fortunately my teacher (and the spirits) felt it was time for me to go for them anyways.

 

I think that the process of getting them (the workings/rituals surrounding this) most definitely do help to wipe out a lot of that grasping and ego-centeredness. Otherwise, you don't make it, go insane, stop the working partway through (which is pretty dangerous apparently) and so forth.

 

People who follow gurus already demonstrate a puffed-up sense of pride and aloofness in the way that they carry themselves, as if saying, "my guru is the best, yours is only second rate", and then carry themselves along with this distorted reflection in their interactions with others. They cannot see this, but those with keener observations can. So, if this very 'outer' thing is already so prevalent (among buddhist groups, i am saying here), just imagine what could happen if this same 'peoples' are to be trained in the yogas of siddhi cultivation.

 

I think they'd have that ego crap torn right out of them to make room for said siddhis. I'm curious what you are imagining (or have seen and/or experienced).

 

Henceforth, it would take many years for even one student to be given such an induction, but then, that is never... never have been, the main objective of Buddhist cultivation.

 

How come years? Aren't you sort of thrown in, then sink or swim?

 

I have found that there are many workings/rituals that entice with promises of powers and so forth, yet the process of getting there changes the person and said powers are sort of thought of as irrelevant (accept for the super awesome union/connection gained) after the working...

 

On a mundane level, we already possess a lot of siddhic gifts, but again, there is also this 'taken for granted' thing going on all the time. A lot of energy is lost by not harmonising the little we already have and putting these out there to bring benefit to others, with the goal of bringing cessation to our deeply-cherished notions of self before others.

 

(ranting again, sorry)

 

Good point about us already possessing many .

 

PS, I achieved the Siddhi of debating on the internet ages back .

[BaguaKicksAss]

Sounds interesting, I'll go back and watch it

 

 

 

I think that's definitely the case. While I think a lot of psychics and mediums and so forth are just scam artists, there are a handful who seem legitimate, despite not having undergone any spiritual training (in the current life anyway).

 

Sadly I'm not one of those people, I think it would have made things a lot easier when I was trying to get out of my deep seated materialist/reduction/atheist funk Although it's interesting that, as far as I can tell, few of those people go on to actually full train and develop their talents and dedicate themselves to spiritual development.

 

I've met some folks who most definitely came in with some stuff! Though they are also most definitely not the ones who are famous "psychics" either .

 

Well maybe about the athiest etc. funk, but on the otherhand those born with such things just have other difficulties to overcome. There might also just be even more to take for granted...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

Youse guys are so smart.

 

Keep it up! It's a great convo!

 

I love you all!

 

I have a love/hate relationship with the siddhis though.

 

Omniscience isn't entirely pleasant.

 

Besides, all I ever wanted was to be a nobody and look after my two kids.

 

And be loved by my wife.

 

Not to be apparently.

 

I gotta settle for second best.

 

Becoming The Greatest Guru Who Ever Lived.

 

I swear to God you people don't know nuthin'.

 

Sorry.

...

Edited December 19, 2013 by Captain Mar-Vell

[Brian]

I does sound a bit D&D, doesn't it

 

But I suppose they could just as easily call it steps, or tiers, or ranks. Any system of development is going to be divided between markers of achievement.

Your post made me think of Yu-Gi-Oh for some reason, but only because my son was big into it when he was in elementary school.

 

 

 

http://www.picgifs.com/wallpapers/wallpapers/yu-gi-oh/yugioh-com-007.jpg

 

 

 

Haven't noticed people being made "anxious" around me but I definitely attract anxious people more now -- especially when I forget to hide my beacon:

 

 

http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d099374fa919.jpg

 

 

(It's a jingdonggong inside joke...)

 

Not just anxious people, I attract those who also cultivate and those in need (whether they know it or not) and animals, too.

 

Edited December 19, 2013 by Brian