Philosophical (Ancient) Taoism is RAISINETS

[fatherpaul]

I jest.

you goad not.

I understand.

 

 

*bows*

[林愛偉]

Or something enabled by the process when you let go of enabling it yourself? like karma?

 

 

Maybe there was something more to the text. Looking at the most common way of people's minds, then offering them a guideline to do good, be with a good mind, and leave hints that cause one to ponder, contemplate and attract to read within the context for a more"spiritual" manner of cultivation.

Step one, step two, step three.. etc.. and then they have become sages to further their cultivation towards immortality, and then enlightenment.

 

Maybe there was a reference in the text pointing to the mind. Resulting in the ending of karma, but since people were too attached to their things, desires, etc, they could only utilize certain methods. Work with the process, resulting in a more "benevolent" life experience, assisting humanity without planting seeds of ego...seems to result in a more "peaceful" society.

 

But as brother Paul put it, "not every so called Taoist is enlightened".

 

and as I will say, not everyone who has cultivated Dao De Jing was able to put down, be selfless, and be without views. But I am sure there are some.

 

The fact that we cannot find them is a good sign of their cultivation. They usually find those who are sincere cultivators.

It is easier to be lazy than be dilligent... atleast for the majority of the endless living beings in this world of my mind.

 

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Edited June 25, 2007 by 林愛偉

[beancurdturtle]

and as I will say, not everyone who has cultivated Dao De Jing was able to put down, be selfless, and be without views. But I am sure there are some.

 

The fact that we cannot find them is a good sign of their cultivation. They usually find those who are sincere cultivators.

It is easier to be lazy than be dilligent... atleast for the majority of the endless living beings in this world of my mind.

Peace,

Aiwei

Every path will have it's pitfalls. Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, shortbread cookies, even happy pancakes.

 

I also think that some rare people are self cultivating (though certainly not me). Otherwise, where would the original stuff that us silly folks use to fuel cultivation spring from? Did that make any sense?

 

It is easier to be lazy, even easier to make excuses. Dilligence requires focus (or cultivation) for a while at least. Eventually (sometimes over years) it becomes habit. Then you feel out of your skin when you're not doing it "right." And that's pretty darn cool.

 

Peace,

[林愛偉]

Every path will have it's pitfalls. Taoism, Buddhism, Christianity, shortbread cookies, even happy pancakes.

 

I also think that some rare people are self cultivating (though certainly not me). Otherwise, where would the original stuff that us silly folks use to fuel cultivation spring from? Did that make any sense?

 

It is easier to be lazy, even easier to make excuses. Dilligence requires focus (or cultivation) for a while at least. Eventually (sometimes over years) it becomes habit. Then you feel out of your skin when you're not doing it "right." And that's pretty darn cool.

 

Peace,

 

 

Ahhh.. the pitfalls are in the cultivators, not the manner being cultivated.. he he he

 

and why? because the manners being cultivated are only mannerisms to the one cultivating them. Once one has awakened, there are no more mannerisms.

Edited June 25, 2007 by 林愛偉

[Taomeow]

Thanks for elaborating, Beancurdturtle. I see your point better now.

 

One quick note --

"ancient" is not a precise term of course, but I understand "ancient taoism" as taoism that predates Laozi --to wit, this neat work of sublime genius requiring no words, really, that is attributed to Fu Xi, King Wen, and the Duke of Zhou -- that was Laozi's platform too as he climbed to prominence on the shoulders of these giants. As Tao Te Ching is your guiding light, so Zhouyi, also known as the I Ching, together with its sources, the Hetu and Luoshu, is mine. And these are most definitely not works of philosophy. So, for starters, I can't really equate "ancient taoism" with "philosophical taoism" -- "philosophical" is a modern (relatively) way to tackle this body of knowledge, initiated by researchers (not practitioners) circa the 17th century if memory serves.

 

I'll save the discussion of taoist practices, including ritual practices, for another thread --

but for someone who is on speaking terms with ancient taoism's energetic basics, donning a blue robe with scarlet clouds is an act of activating resonance with primordial natural energies of the world (specifically the Wuxing phases), not an empty ritual or a status symbol or a silly superstition... no, it's a taoist doing, a ganying act.

 

There's empty ritual out there, of course, but taoism (taoism the practice of taoist arts and sciences) does take exception to this approach. It's like that surfer metaphor we looked at earlier... you said the board is taoism, is the tool? I say, the body of the practitioner -- surfer, or taoist -- is the tool, the body is taoism... the board is taoist philosophy!

Edited June 25, 2007 by Taomeow

[beancurdturtle]

Thanks for elaborating, Beancurdturtle. I see your point better now.

 

One quick note --

And so we orbit in eccentric circles abound a basic concept again. "Ancient Taoism" "Phlosophical Taoism" "Taoist Philosophy" "Taoist Shortcake" Words are supposed to clarify things, right? Haha!

 

I use "Philosophical Taoism" because it is a familiar phrase to people I have studied and discussed with in the past. "Ancient Taoism" has also been used to mean the same thing.

 

Basically what I am trying to say is, I follow a path that is aimed at actualizing in my life the basic moral base that underlies the words of the Dao de Jing. Stuff like acceptance, tolerance, respect, benevolence, etc. There are other people who follow this same path. But we seem to be rare compared to the other 'isms.

 

Because the Dao de Jing is a collection of anecdotes, suggestions, poems and such - there is a tendancy for many to miss the forest for the trees. Here, as in so many things, the detail can be a distraction. For me and the folks who "do the Dao" (I'm afraid to say "ancient" or "philosophical" - haha) like me, walking in contentment and in harmony in the forest holds more value than trying to catalog the trees.

 

Zhuangzi is what I might call the Dao de Jing's "Daily Show." Once you have a good understanding of what's going on in the Dao de Jing, the humor and absurdity of Zhuangzi helps open up a better understanding.

 

I mean no disrespect to the other paths, Taoist or what have you. Like I said in another post - I've read the I-Ching, The Yellow Emperor's Classic of Internal Medicine, and several other Taoist texts. That was 20 or so years ago - so the details are murky, though the concepts hang around in my mind.

 

Suffice it to say, the roller skates are mostly irrelevant if the path traveled is the same. And if the wheels are moving in the right direction, any skates are cool.

 

Oh! since I've come to this point, let me share something really cool. http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/Menu/Reader.html

I use it to flip from one translation to another of the same chapter in the Dao de Jing. Many sources, ignore the abstration, look for the substance.

 

Peace,

[Taomeow]

Because the Dao de Jing is a collection of anecdotes, suggestions, poems and such - there is a tendancy for many to miss the forest for the trees. Here, as in so many things, the detail can be a distraction.

 

 

When I do taijiquan, the detail is what makes the difference between embodying (ti) taiji and missing its point completely. When I mix an herbal formula, the detail is what makes the difference between healing and harming. When I write a word, the detail is what makes the difference between a cat and a bat, a rat, a mat, a hat. Tao is subtle. It is a lot more common to miss the trees for the forest these days --

it's called New Age, this reverence for the generalized, abstract, rooted in nothing in particular practically, and ultimately nonexistent forest, coupled with the disdain for the concrete, living and breathing, rooted in very specific soil (toxic or fertile? -- this little detail matters!), and ultimately real tree. Is it a birch or a strangler vine? Is it an apple tree or a Christmas tree? Is it philosophical taoism or alchemical, or magical, or mystical, or divinational, or devotional, or none of the above?..

 

There's nothing wrong with seeing the trees... seeing the trees doesn't automatically rob one's sight of its ability to see the forest... The opposite, strangely, is not true. One's ability to see the "general" forest doesn't automatically guarantee that one won't walk his chosen path into a pine forest in search of peaches... Nothing is wrong with pine cones, but I prefer to pay enough attention to the details to be able to bake an apple pie when I want to bake an apple pie, not a pine cone pie.

 

Anyway... my main point is, there's no school, sect, shape and form of taoism that consists in reading philosophical books about tao and then applying what they say to life. It may be a very cool thing to do, of course, I'm not arguing with that... but it is something that has never been defined as "the taoist path." Reading those books and applying what they suggest to life is but one tree in the forest along the taoist path -- and not the biggest one!

Edited June 25, 2007 by Taomeow

[zenbrook]

I think I share with you a common ancestry with regard to appreciation for the tao, turtle:)

 

I must admit I'm loath to use the old 'philosophical' vs 'religious' model, but like you, can't help feeling there's a kernel of something essentially 'taoist' that precedes or informs later ritual/magickal/alchemical developments. Perhaps it's just I'm old-fashioned, not in the sense of ancient, but rather in terms of more recent history. I'm amazed at the stuff the good people on this forum are up to... half the time talking about practices and experiences I've never even heard of (the aneros?!!) In my day, it was a copy of the Tao Te Ching, Chuang Tsu and maybe some Tai Chi Chuan at the local church hall if you were lucky!

 

Ah, I miss the innocence of those days... not having a clue what the Inner Chapters were on about. Now that I am older and much, much cleverer, I understand them even less than when I started Father Paul would say that I am not asking the right questions. I think I would have to agree.

 

But I digress. I just wanted to say how happy I am to have found somewhere where I can chat with (forgive my presumption) like-minded folk such as yourself, turtle, but also where I can participate in (albeit at one remove) the breadth, depth and raw enthusiasm of a community with a far broader definition of taoism than I was able to experience when I first started out.

 

And for that, I would like to thank you all.

 

Peace,

ZenB

[beancurdturtle]

Anyway... my main point is, there's no school, sect, shape and form of taoism that consists in reading philosophical books about tao and then applying what they say to life. It may be a very cool thing to do, of course, I'm not arguing with that... but it is something that has never been defined as "the taoist path." Reading those books and applying what they suggest to life is but one tree in the forest along the taoist path -- and not the biggest one!

Taomeow,

 

We are talking about two different things. You're talking about taoist arts and sciences, which does require focus on the details. I'm talking about living in congruence with the morals and objectives that are the foundation of the Dao de Jing.

 

Your current path requires concentration on the details. I've been there so I understand.

 

My current path is about integrating fundamental morals and objectives into life regardless of whether your a pig farmer or a project manager.

 

I'd "studied" taoism along with many other religions during a curiosity phase when I was about 20 years old. A few years later I had early onset rheumatoid arthritis in my middle twenties - bad news (and good news). I got tired of "managing" the pain with morphine in the western tradition. Then I got really tired of experiencing chronic pain. A friend introduced me to Ni Hua-Ching (http://www.yosan.edu/lineage-based-learning/index.cfm).

 

So my real introduction to taoism was through Traditional Chinese Medicine (TCM). Master Ni recommended one of his sons for my treatment. I started with acupuncture 2 or 3 times a week, nasty tea 3 times a day, and qigong breathing. After about 6 weeks I could move comfortably enough to start taijiquan. After about 6 more weeks the "rheumatoid arthritis" was gone.

 

I was impressed to say the least. From 1986 to 1989 or so I studied (with the help of several different masters) TCM, qigong, taijiquan, I Ching, Dao de Jing, Zhuangzi, many taoist philosophers, and all kinds of related things very earnestly. I imagined one day I might be a taoist master and doctor. I was sitting in the kitchen of a master one Sunday chatting. He was one of those laser vision Zhuge Liang kind of guys that practiced TCM, I Ching, Astrology and such.

 

I asked this master what to do to prevent the rheumatoid arthritis from returning. I thought I would get a TCM based response or a recommendation for some kind of moving meditation. But it wasn't something so simple (darn!). He said I needed to learn to live in harmony with core taoist morals and objectives. Incongruity and dis-harmony are what caused the "friction" that created the imbalance and subsequently the manifestation of pain in my body.

 

Near to the same time I was out in the desert at a retreat with another master. He was observing with some amusement my enormous enthusiasm and focus on learning and practicing taoist arts and sciences. We were sitting side-by-side BSing about enlightenment, health, and etc. He stopped talking for a minute. Then turned and looked me square in the face and said. "You know, Daniel. Sometimes we all just need to sit down with a beer, a cigar, and the National Enquirer." Ok, he was speaking somewhat metaphorically, but the message was clear.

 

From these two incidents I started understanding, that the real objective is to live with integrity and harmony and create a place of contentment in your life, whatever your life may be. Whether you are a sage, a master, a pig farmer, a project manager - or maybe all four - the achievement of harmony and contentment is the important thing. The path is only details.

 

I'm not the only one that does it this like this - it's just not as sexy as temples, masters, miracle cures, levitation and such. I guess you haven't run across someone like me before so I present a conundrum to your sensibilities about what is required for enlightenment. I can't cure your ills, I don't give profound lectures, I don't taijiquan or qigong any more. I just do my best to live in harmony with core taoist morals and objectives. I'm very content, amazingly healthy for a dude of nearly 50, and very thankful for my blessed life.

 

There is no defined taoist path - when you define a path, you distance yourself from the Way. Schools, sects, shapes and forms are not the Way, they are guides - and I know from experience how helpful they are in pointing us in the right direction. You know, Taomeow. Maybe it's time that you sat down with a beer, a cigar, and the National Enquirer.

 

Peace,

--

Daniel

Edited June 25, 2007 by beancurdturtle

[fatherpaul]

When I do taijiquan, the detail is what makes the difference between embodying (ti) taiji and missing its point completely. When I mix an herbal formula, the detail is what makes the difference between healing and harming. When I write a word, the detail is what makes the difference between a cat and a bat, a rat, a mat, a hat. Tao is subtle. It is a lot more common to miss the trees for the forest these days --

it's called New Age, this reverence for the generalized, abstract, rooted in nothing in particular practically, and ultimately nonexistent forest, coupled with the disdain for the concrete, living and breathing, rooted in very specific soil (toxic or fertile? -- this little detail matters!), and ultimately real tree. Is it a birch or a strangler vine? Is it an apple tree or a Christmas tree? Is it philosophical taoism or alchemical, or magical, or mystical, or divinational, or devotional, or none of the above?..

 

There's nothing wrong with seeing the trees... seeing the trees doesn't automatically rob one's sight of its ability to see the forest... The opposite, strangely, is not true. One's ability to see the "general" forest doesn't automatically guarantee that one won't walk his chosen path into a pine forest in search of peaches... Nothing is wrong with pine cones, but I prefer to pay enough attention to the details to be able to bake an apple pie when I want to bake an apple pie, not a pine cone pie.

 

Anyway... my main point is, there's no school, sect, shape and form of taoism that consists in reading philosophical books about tao and then applying what they say to life. It may be a very cool thing to do, of course, I'm not arguing with that... but it is something that has never been defined as "the taoist path." Reading those books and applying what they suggest to life is but one tree in the forest along the taoist path -- and not the biggest one!

im just glad the mona lisa quit doing that thing with her eyes!

very creepy! LOL

[Taomeow]

Beancurd,

 

OK, I understand you better and better. Thanks.

 

You understand me less and less. I'm not looking for a path to choose, I'm very satisfied with the path chosen. It is traditional and authentic, and I'm not looking for improvements, innovations or shortcuts. Jump-starting harmony is not my style, harmony comes to me when it comes, the way it comes, and if and when it doesn't, the last place I look to find instructions as to how to get there is on the internet. I am me; you are you. You came to your understanding through your experiences; I, through mine. You needed to relax; I needed to put in some effort. You had arthritis; I had the kind of flexibility that bordered on supernatural. You needed to resolve an inner conflict; I needed to resolve an outer one. You needed to forget the details and focus on the essential; I had to forget the essential and focus on the details. You believe your path is the "next step" or a "bigger better step" vis a vis mine. I believe mine is unfolding in a very timely fashion and my "next step" is mystery of mysteries. You want harmony in your life; I want harmony in as many lives as mine will be able to touch. "Real people come like the spring, benefitting all beings" -- that's where I want to go. Where do you want to go? 'cause if you call it a "path," doesn't it lead somewhere?..

 

im just glad the mona lisa quit doing that thing with her eyes!

very creepy! LOL

I thought it was funny. But if you don't like it, I'll change it, out of respect for your sense of creepy.

Edited June 25, 2007 by Taomeow

[fatherpaul]

not to worry taomeow

 

 

peace

[beancurdturtle]

You believe your path is the "next step" or a "bigger better step" vis a vis mine.

I never even inferred that the steps to my cosmic Macarena were better, bigger, or next. I only discussed my experience. I fully understand my cosmic Macarena will seem jazzy to a few and silly to most. That's the way of these things. And I don't recommend jump-starting the harmony - the beat of the cosmic Macarena is tough enough to follow even when you start on the right foot.

 

I have respect for whatever steps (silly, simple, or jazzy) are working, for whomever is doing their cosmic Macarena. The steps you are taking require a lot more focus and mental attention than mine at this time. Mine basically require diligence and attention to now. Some day there may be a flip-flop of the nature and requirements of our respective cosmic Macarenas. Who knows?

 

You are missing the fact that I have the same amount of respect for your path as I do for mine - maybe even more respect for your path. I can explain why more if you wish.

 

Now I'll give my ego a bit of free reign, and please understand that I dislike putting thoughts into other people's heads, so I apologize if I've interpreted your words incorrectly.

 

Do you know why you are having trouble accepting and understanding my experience and process? I've noted that for some people it's been easy to grasp. Is it so difficult to accept that someone can follow the Way by walking an uncomplicated path?

 

I've never questioned the validity of your path. Yet I feel that you are examining my discussion of the path I am on and looking for leverage points to make it less valid, less appropriate, less effective, or less zippy than your chosen path. I still haven't discerned your motivation for semantically pigeon-holing my thoughts and discussion into something disingenuous or trite. It's like oneupsmanship with a crispy sagely coating - a metaphorical culinary catastrophe.

 

"You want harmony in your life; I want harmony in as many lives as mine will be able to touch." You make this statement as if there is a difference between the two; and in a context as if your benevolence is greater than mine (which it may be). I would say that harmony in the whole world would be the ideal, but I have no control over the world. I'll start where I can have the greatest influence - self, family, community, culture, world. Harmony, like a yawn, is contagious - those ready for it will follow the example when they see it. (Reminds me of TTC Chap 54)

 

"Real people come like the spring, benefiting all beings" -- that's where I want to go. Where do you want to go? I'm approaching the same place - that objective is woven solidly into the Dao de Jing. Why would you assume I am aiming at a different objective just because our paths are different?

 

"Real people come like the spring, benefiting all beings" -- wouldn't it be sweet to be there, huh?

 

Peace,

[zenbrook]

"Real people come like the spring, benefiting all beings" -- wouldn't it be sweet to be there, huh?

 

Peace,

Could you expand on this? What would it mean to be a 'real person'? And for you, Taomeow?

 

Why do you follow the paths you do?

 

Peace,

ZenB

[Taomeow]

Beancurdturtle,

 

I promised myself so many times (mostly at other forums that, for me, went before this one) to never participate in any discussions of any General Theories of Anything anymore and to limit myself to non-general topics. What's the martial application for the Cloud Hands. How to get the elbow to stay parallel to the ceiling when doing calligraphy. Has anyone tried the Deer alchemy three hundred and twenty times instead of thirty-two. What professor Yan of Cornell U has to say about the I Ching's hexagram "Standstill" in the context of the genetic code. How exactly to place the Water Dragon in the Xuan Kong tradition. How to read the Hidden Branches in Four Pillars astrology. How to discern the Fibonacci sequence in TCM's measurements in cuns. What's the meaning of a birth mark on the right cheek at the level of the earlobe in taoist face reading. Why I am convinced that all Western civilization, which finds its genesis in what historians refer to as The Greek Miracle, is as much the outcome of what ancient Greeks learned from ancient Arabs who learned from ancient Chinese whose scientists were taoists, all of them -- as much the outcome of this fertilization as it would have been if the whole macarena was secretly transmitted by a higher out-of-space civilization -- so far ahead taoism the science was of anything we know even today via tackling the world by means of other cognitive methods, those that have come into existence after "tao has been destroyed" (I'm quoting Laozi, Zhuangzi, Wen-tzu and Yuandao on this one, all of them have this interesting bit of information smack in the middle of everything else they have to say -- have you noticed?..) --

 

but I digress. What I mean is, I should really limit my participation to discussions of specificities and leave generalities well alone. Tackle only things that fascinate me, the treausures of six thousand years of accumulation which Chinese civilization miraculously preserved to this day while all others comparatively ancient have lost long, long ago. So I always look for my chance to have one of THESE discussions. And...

 

...and somehow I still, from time to time, get myself into a conversation into nowhere. Well, I know how and why it happens. Chinese Astrology explained it to me. But even though it's energetically justified (my proprietary Phase of qi catches on Fire easily, and the internet is primarily a manifestation of the Fire phase), still it's time I learned. So... nevermind. Let's talk about something else. NB: I didn't and don't mean any disrespect to your path, and I mean it most sincerely. I simply am into something else, is all. I feel we might have a more fruitful exchange if our respective paths intersect in the vicinity of one of those something-else topics.

 

Thanks for a stimulating exchange.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Taomeow

[beancurdturtle]

Could you expand on this? What would it mean to be a 'real person'? And for you, Taomeow?

 

Why do you follow the paths you do?

 

Peace,

ZenB

If you don't mind. I think I'll let Taomeow answer this. If he will.

 

I think it has the same meaning for both of us, but I expect you'll get a better answer from Taomeow than from me.

 

I think even Taomeow's answer to "Why do you follow the paths you do?" will be fundamentally the same as mine, but better expressed.

 

I have a habit of oversimplifying. So it works in my head - but my explanation is obtuse.

[beancurdturtle]

Thanks for a stimulating exchange.

You know what Taomeow. I was stepping out with an inflamed ego. It happens.

 

I appreciate your thoughts and knowledge. Don't let me being an ass put you off.

 

I have another possible avatar for you.

[林愛偉]

You know what Taomeow. I was stepping out with an inflamed ego. It happens.

 

I appreciate your thoughts and knowledge. Don't let me being an ass put you off.

 

I have another possible avatar for you.

 

 

I know that icon.. Princess Mononoke.. very good movie about the spirit of nature and the

demon of greed.. haha

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[zenbrook]

If you don't mind. I think I'll let Taomeow answer this. If he will.

 

I think it has the same meaning for both of us, but I expect you'll get a better answer from Taomeow than from me.

 

I think even Taomeow's answer to "Why do you follow the paths you do?" will be fundamentally the same as mine, but better expressed.

 

I have a habit of oversimplifying. So it works in my head - but my explanation is obtuse.

Interesting.

 

I only asked, because it seems to me that we're all here for very different reasons, trying to achieve (or not-achieve) very different things . Consequently, our 'taoisms' will very probably be very different too. Is it necessarily the case that Taomeow's tao and your's will be the same? Your's and mine? Should they be?

 

To return to the source, as it were: Raisinets may be scrumptious, but they stick in my teeth - I prefer onions. However that may be, I choose to celebrate our differences, rather than waste my time clinging at all costs to our similarities. The exchange between the two of you was fascinating and I thank you both... but I'm still not sure that 'it' would have the same meaning for both of you.

 

And I'm rather glad it doesn't have to

 

Peace,

ZenB

[beancurdturtle]

I wouldn't cling to similarities. But I know they exist. And I have a feeling that Taomeow and I have a similarity in what we are trying to achieve - and a difference in path and semantics.

 

I was hoping for Taomeow's answers becasue if I open my fat trap it establishes context of one thought set compared to another. So I hoped to have Taomeow's thoughts free of context.

 

I'll answer your original questions later.

[Taomeow]

Thanks for asking, ZenB! -- I will respond when my coffee break comes.

 

Thanks for your emotional generosity, Beancurdturtle! In your last few statements there was only one thing I had to disagree with -- that Taomeow is a he. I'm a she.

 

Aiwei, I loved Princess Mononoke too, even though I do find most Japanese animation ever so slightly schizophrenic.

[beancurdturtle]

Thanks for your emotional generosity, Beancurdturtle! In your last few statements there was only one thing I had to disagree with -- that Taomeow is a he. I'm a she.

I had a feeling that was the case - I was even feeling a bit squeemish making an assumption and using "he." But with English being gender based and male biased I went for the baseline. Not always the best way to go obviously.

 

Mandarin Chinese is so much easier being gender neutral - I could have just used "ta."

 

Peace,

--

Daniel

[Taomeow]

Could you expand on this? What would it mean to be a 'real person'? And for you, Taomeow?

 

Why do you follow the paths you do?

 

Peace,

ZenB

 

 

"Real people" is a term most taoist classics use, which some translators render this way while others come up with "tao sages" or "realized humans" or "masters of old" or "people of ancient times" to describe the same entities. Like with all other things pertaining to taoist thought, you can get a lot more mileage out of "describing" than out of "defining" them; one good "description" is offered by Laozi in Chapter 15.

 

As for my path --

I think I mentioned somewhere earlier that I didn't choose it, it chose me. So to a "why" I have to answer "because it was meant to be." In more prosaic terms:

I was working on something very personal (via a rather unique deep feeling/deep regression therapeutic modality which had nothing to do with anything superficial, anything you can do over a weekend at a retreat or some such -- full life-or-death commitment, was what it was like for me) --

and as a "side effect," three years down the road I started getting some "universal" insights that took the shape and form of...

...of something I had no words or concepts to express. For a few months, I was drawing diagrams, circles, spirals, fractals, arrows, 3-D numbers built into natural objects, all kinds of weird stuff trying to find a method to express what I was experiencing and seeing: the raw "energies of the world" in their ten thousand manifestations. Then I chanced upon a taoist intro book. No prior exposure mind you. I started reading and I started screaming. "This is IT! That's what I've been perceiving!" Long story short, turned out I was trying to invent qi, yin-yang, bagua, Wuxing, and ganying to express what I was experiencing. I was so happy to find out all the "descriptions" and their dynamics were already invented -- at least six thousand years earlier! -- and thoroughly explored and recorded in written documents in the past three and a half thousand years! --

that all I could do was dance. I danced, and then little by little started learning what those thingies were "really" good for... So that was the beginning of a "path" that just took me where it wanted me to go.

 

So... that's why -- not out of any arrogance or anything like that -- I'm physically unable to change anything about it on cue from anybody, no matter how wise, no matter how enlightened, no matter how well-meaning. Tao grabbed me by the nape of the neck, body, mind, spirit, everything I am -- and pointed my nose in the general direction of where I'm supposed to go. How can a human mind overrule the mind of tao?

[sean]

I think I'm cultivating a crush on you Taomeow.

[Taomeow]

I think I'm cultivating a crush on you Taomeow.

Hooray!