Are you able to redirect sexual energy?

[Pero]

Not as surprised as me, Pero!!

 

It was precisely the promotion of renunciation as 'the only way' that I was arguing against.

 

Like you, I view it as one possible method among many. Unlike you, I failed to express that adequately, for which I apologise.

 

I hope that doesn't mean I have to go back in the ring with Aiwei?

 

Peace,

ZenB

 

There is nothing to apologize for. If there were, I should also be apologising for not being perceptive enough.

As for the ring.. You don`t "have" to do anything, so do what you want.

[zenbrook]

Where he'll soundly trounce you with a pillow of potentiality.

My only defense the subtle application of tantrum yoga

[jellyfish]

I don't mean to interrupt this thread and if it is off topic please ignore. It is a question for my own curiosity, relating to redirecting energy. It seems that the original poster is a bit like me at the moment - unable to..well..have non-ejaculatory orgasms (despite having been able to before).

 

What took my interest was the recommendations earlier in this thread regarding qigong practice in order to achieve these.

 

What I don't understand is, I knew nothing of qigong, I was just messing around inspired by this aimless document I found on the internet saying you could have multiple orgasms. And I just...well had them. And I've never ever been able to ever since, despite practicing for hours a day. I wondered if anyone else has experienced this - to have felt like they 'understood' how to stir up and move energy easily, and then suddenly, it disappears without a trace and you can never get it back

[林愛偉]

Not as surprised as me, Pero!!

 

It was precisely the promotion of renunciation as 'the only way' that I was arguing against.

 

Like you, I view it as one possible method among many. Unlike you, I failed to express that adequately, for which I apologise.

 

I hope that doesn't mean I have to go back in the ring with Aiwei?

 

Peace,

ZenB

 

Ahhh.. I do see what you mean, which would have been a great add-in during our discussion. During one's beginning stages, renunciation is impossible, unless they have the capacity to do so, right? So, one works with what they can handle. It may be years, 10, 20 , 40, before they can move from there method of cultivation into another step. Not that Tantric practices are wrong.. they are not wrong.. not wrong at all....

 

What was not clear was what was being cut off... One's personal attachment to the method, the desire cultivated, and the desire for result. Ofcourse, the method which leads us to attain the result of good cultivation will be the one we "promote". I also have been in practice of tantric methods...so I am not against them at all.

I do see that at some point, entertaining sexual desires will come to an end as an inevitable result, it doesn't have to be chased after, and then there is another step. The method is our crutch until we don't need it anymore.

 

The Buddha spoke of cutting off because of the minds of living beings. He knew that the great majority, if taught to utilize desire in certain manners, would not be able to handle the intensity of them, and result in manifest more karma which will keep them here longer.

So, he taught methods to directly cut off desire, or gradually do it, but emphasized the direct methods towards transforming them, ending them.

 

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei

Edited June 27, 2007 by 林愛偉

[林愛偉]

I don't mean to interrupt this thread and if it is off topic please ignore. It is a question for my own curiosity, relating to redirecting energy. It seems that the original poster is a bit like me at the moment - unable to..well..have non-ejaculatory orgasms (despite having been able to before).

 

What took my interest was the recommendations earlier in this thread regarding qigong practice in order to achieve these.

 

What I don't understand is, I knew nothing of qigong, I was just messing around inspired by this aimless document I found on the internet saying you could have multiple orgasms. And I just...well had them. And I've never ever been able to ever since, despite practicing for hours a day. I wondered if anyone else has experienced this - to have felt like they 'understood' how to stir up and move energy easily, and then suddenly, it disappears without a trace and you can never get it back

 

 

Hi,

 

Usually when we try something for the first time, we are very much into it, concentrated and mindful (there's that word again) of what we are doing. We are not fixed on the result. After we attain a response from cultivating, we tend to look for that feeling again. THat looking during our practice becomes a hindrance to realizing the outcome of practice. THe multiple orgasms is actually not the highest one can get, but it is a good sign of potential in cultivation.

As a child I learned a basic exercises that builds the orgasm sensation for men, for women too, but I never did the one for women . During urination, every quarter of the way, stop urinating, wait a moment, and then let it go again...then stop a moment, and let it go again. Do this repeatedly during urination. This builds strength in the prostate gland and acts as a preventative exercise to tighten the prostate ..for men, so they donot develop prostate problems from ejaculating too much, which results in a loose prostate.

It also builds mindfulness --haha -- of the genitals and brings more energy and blood to the area, resulting in a non-impotent life. More blood and energy, more sensation during sex. Which also calls for more control, not to go out too fast..he he he. This can lead to longer lasting fun, building of energy(mind) in the genitals, and result in an explosion of myriad entertainment.

 

For women it is obviously different.

 

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Edited June 27, 2007 by 林愛偉

[林愛偉]

I don't mean to interrupt this thread and if it is off topic please ignore. It is a question for my own curiosity, relating to redirecting energy. It seems that the original poster is a bit like me at the moment - unable to..well..have non-ejaculatory orgasms (despite having been able to before).

 

What took my interest was the recommendations earlier in this thread regarding qigong practice in order to achieve these.

 

What I don't understand is, I knew nothing of qigong, I was just messing around inspired by this aimless document I found on the internet saying you could have multiple orgasms. And I just...well had them. And I've never ever been able to ever since, despite practicing for hours a day. I wondered if anyone else has experienced this - to have felt like they 'understood' how to stir up and move energy easily, and then suddenly, it disappears without a trace and you can never get it back

 

 

For non-ejaculatory orgasms, you have to recognize the feeling right before you are feeling you are getting an orgasm, then slow down. Let the feeling subside and then continue do whaat you do. Be mindful of that feeling of before the almost about to ejaculate feeling. When it arises, you must slow and breathe in to prevent it from going out forward.

The hold-back method I mentioned earlier for urination is a good way of developing the muscles and will power to hold back during orgasm. When ready to have the orgasm, be sure your partner does not touch the penis at all. It is best to pull out, for any touch will cause the sensation of orgasm to rise intensly and you will shower the room with regret. haha

When it is about to reach orgasm level, prepare to be attentive to your breathing and be sure to have the wil power to pull out. On orgasm, no touching the friend, hold back by tightening the anal muscles, which is tightening the penis, all before the sperm reaches the urethra (the tube leading to the head) and breathe in following the micro cosmic orbit into the dan tian.

Be mindful of the feeling right when you begin orgasm. That is where you must apply hold back, and once the orgasm has gotten to be almost full fledged feeling, pull out, and continue to hold back while breathing in from the tip of the penis, following up the spine, and down the face, chest into the dan tian.

 

Have fun.. takes practice.

 

Peace and Happiness,

Aiwei

 

 

P.S.- I don't know how to get all my posts in one posting.. haha

Edited June 27, 2007 by 林愛偉

[mat black]

There is a lot of power involved in ejaculation.

 

So, I feel that it's important to emphasise that when considering ejaculation control, the practitioner needs to realise that if an impending ejaculation is deliberatley with held, the qi and jing need to go somewhere. If you close the flood gates of a dam as the water is about to spill over, you need to have first prepared and open and safe route for the water to travel instead.

 

Aiwei mentioned this by saying "and breathe in following the micro cosmic orbit into the dan tian."

 

I feel that there needs to be more of an emphsis on clearing and opening theses channels before the thought of ejaculation with holding is entertained.

To attempt this redirection of qi and jing without first clearing and opening the necesary pathways, major jam-ups can occur within the prostate, urethra, bladder etc

 

There have been posts to this and the HT board in the past of people who have tried to vigourously with hold ejaculation and as a result have experienced various problems of lower jiao jing and qi stagnation.

 

Massage, meditation (let-go, opening/relaxing etc the bod&mind), chi nei tsang, Dao Yin and so forth are just a few ways of facilitating the clearing and opening of the 're-direction' pathways involved in ejaculation control.

Edited June 28, 2007 by mat black

[林愛偉]

There is a lot of power involved in ejaculation.

 

So, I feel that it's important to emphasise that when considering ejaculation control, the practitioner needs to realise that if an impending ejaculation is deliberatley with held, the qi and jing need to go somewhere. If you close the flood gates of a dam as the water is about to spill over, you need to have first prepared and open and safe route for the water to travel instead.

 

Aiwei mentioned this by saying "and breathe in following the micro cosmic orbit into the dan tian."

 

I feel that there needs to be more of an emphsis on clearing and opening theses channels before the thought of ejaculation with holding is entertained.

To attempt this redirection of qi and jing without first clearing and opening the necesary pathways, major jam-ups can occur within the prostate, urethra, bladder etc

 

There have been posts to this and the HT board in the past of people who have tried to vigourously with hold ejaculation and as a result have experienced various problems of lower jiao jing and qi stagnation.

 

Massage, meditation (let-go, opening/relaxing etc the bod&mind), chi nei tsang, Dao Yin and so forth are just a few ways of facilitating the clearing and opening of the 're-direction' pathways involved in ejaculation control.

 

 

I agree. All advice given is in all consideration that the practitioner has become familiar with the MCO cultivation and breath techniques. For holding back is no child's play. This is one of the several steps ahead in the cultivation of nourishing the brain, bone marrow and tendons with jing.. hehe fun, but can result in painful health problems if not cautiously practiced, properly taught.

One must, wihtout a doubt, cultivate the MCO, and various breathing techniques, as well as mental postures, before doing something like hold back upon almost ejaculation..and even orgasm for that matter.

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[iadnon]

First off: 林愛偉, thanks for your reply to a previous post of mine. Could we know how your name sounds in our language?

 

About the previous posts, I tried renunciation for a while, but animal desire can be very irresistible. In fact, the most basic needs are well imprinted in the innermost circuits of our reptilian brains. Sleep, food and sex are very basic processes in an animal's life, and we're animals in the end. In the last days of my renunciation period, I ended up angry, being a barker and overloaded of energy, like a pressure pot. And one discharge was not enough to relax me, I had to release as much as I held before (well, it was not so exaggerated as it's sounded the previous phrase).

 

It's true I gained a lot in mental sharpness. My meditations and inner visualizations went bright, settled and controlled.

 

An about "surfing the crest" when you are having sex, I'd like to comment one thing. Normally I stimulate, generate and ascend through the spine. If I see it coming I just stop, but it's quite simple to have it under control if you combine the exercise with a deep breathing pattern. But, sometimes, you get to a point where something change inside your genitals. It's like a pleasure switch behind the penis that, one's activated, resembles a "worm", stimulating sexually from inside. From that point on it seems that the switch gets connected to the throat, and with every wave below it happens a wave above. During the process you must be more concentrated because of the risk of ejaculation.

 

I'm not sure, but I guess that this switch is the prostate in men, or some kind of inner muscle massaging some delicate zone (the PC one?). To say in other words, it is like if a men would have a clitoris, activated by the penis, in the first instance, and by the mind from that moment on. With it on, a mere sensual thought can provoke a great shoot, and the resultant orgasm's feeling moves backwards, I mean, behind the penis.

 

Does someone know what I'm talking about, and how to get to that state with ease?

[林愛偉]

First off: 林愛偉, thanks for your reply to a previous post of mine. Could we know how your name sounds in our language?

 

 

 

Lin (sounds like lean, but can be said like the name Lyn)

Ai (sounds like eye, or AYE!! like what a pirate says but not with the grunt!)

Wei (sounds like way)

 

 

Peace,

Aiwei

[Gerard]

Let me offer you my personal approach to this topic:

 

I guess most users here are White Caucasian or Black. Hence their strongest component of Yin & Yang duality is Yang.

 

Well, if we take this as main premise, we must think that our sexuality is totally opposed to those ethnicities in which Yin is dominant, i.e. Native American (North, Central and South) and Asian.

 

We cannot possible have ability to regulate our sexuality to the extent Yin-based ethnicities can. It would deny one of the laws in which Tao manifests itself.

 

Just be content it what you have and keep working in your Karma which IMO is more important than taoist longevity. Morality is the foremost principle to any spiritual practice.

 

For the rest of us, regulated ejaculation is easier and less traumatic. Just listen to your body and let it dictate its needs after you have controlled several influencing factors: Yoga, various Neijia and Qigong practices, diet, age, gender, rest before Yang starts rising (11 pm), external living conditions (city, village, mountain), work and physical requirements.

 

Namaste.

[林愛偉]

First off: 林愛偉, thanks for your reply to a previous post of mine. Could we know how your name sounds in our language?

 

About the previous posts, I tried renunciation for a while, but animal desire can be very irresistible. In fact, the most basic needs are well imprinted in the innermost circuits of our reptilian brains. Sleep, food and sex are very basic processes in an animal's life, and we're animals in the end. In the last days of my renunciation period, I ended up angry, being a barker and overloaded of energy, like a pressure pot. And one discharge was not enough to relax me, I had to release as much as I held before (well, it was not so exaggerated as it's sounded the previous phrase).

 

It's true I gained a lot in mental sharpness. My meditations and inner visualizations went bright, settled and controlled.

 

An about "surfing the crest" when you are having sex, I'd like to comment one thing. Normally I stimulate, generate and ascend through the spine. If I see it coming I just stop, but it's quite simple to have it under control if you combine the exercise with a deep breathing pattern. But, sometimes, you get to a point where something change inside your genitals. It's like a pleasure switch behind the penis that, one's activated, resembles a "worm", stimulating sexually from inside. From that point on it seems that the switch gets connected to the throat, and with every wave below it happens a wave above. During the process you must be more concentrated because of the risk of ejaculation.

 

I'm not sure, but I guess that this switch is the prostate in men, or some kind of inner muscle massaging some delicate zone (the PC one?). To say in other words, it is like if a men would have a clitoris, activated by the penis, in the first instance, and by the mind from that moment on. With it on, a mere sensual thought can provoke a great shoot, and the resultant orgasm's feeling moves backwards, I mean, behind the penis.

 

Does someone know what I'm talking about, and how to get to that state with ease?

 

 

I see what you are saying...

 

It originates in mind though, results in physical senses. The prostate would be the converter/receiver, so to say, of this energy..movign to the testicles, the function would be to refine and create liquid essense. The energy travels up the spine, we know that as well as down the front of the body... going through these places it refines itself through those lovely chakras we are all so familiar with, and pools in the Dantian which further builds up the physical feeling of sexual desire in body.

The switch is on a fine line between the head of the penis and the mind.

 

Getting there with ease... stimulate, abdominal breathing and anal lock squeezing for iit sends blood and qi to the head and stimulates it moreso. You have to be REALLY REALLY REALLY careful when it builds up.. I am sure you know what to do from there.

 

 

How I explain it may be in different words than you know it to be.. try it though.. it may be in the same manenr inwhich you recognize it as. Let me know what you think.

 

hehe

 

Peace,

Aiwei

Edited June 28, 2007 by 林愛偉

[freeform]

When it is about to reach orgasm level, prepare to be attentive to your breathing and be sure to have the wil power to pull out. On orgasm, no touching the friend, hold back by tightening the anal muscles, which is tightening the penis, all before the sperm reaches the urethra (the tube leading to the head) and breathe in following the micro cosmic orbit into the dan tian.

Be mindful of the feeling right when you begin orgasm. That is where you must apply hold back, and once the orgasm has gotten to be almost full fledged feeling, pull out, and continue to hold back while breathing in from the tip of the penis, following up the spine, and down the face, chest into the dan tian.

 

I'm one of those 'lucky ones' with almost complete control over ejaculation - I think it's less to do with luck and more to do with how you masturbated when you were younger. For me it was always about how much pleasure I can get from it - which meant that when I did, I'd masturbate for long periods of time (30 - 40 minutes), I learnt to recognise when I'm building up to an orgasm and would slow down - so within a session I would have 3 or 4 'opportunities' to ejaculate, but each time I'd withold. I would always ejaculate in the end though.

 

I've noticed a few things that I do naturally to stave off that no-return point - firstly dont start to panic if you're nearly there, this panic or fright can make you ejaculate - perhaps it's something to do with the kidneys contracting... Also you'll notice that when you're nearing to ejaculation everything tends to contract - the balls, the muscles and tendons around the shaft, and the perineum - so it's good to breathe slowly and fully, pull those balls down, pull the penis from side to side (or create a 'screwing' motion if you're inside your partner) it immediately calms the area and the pressure subsides. Pulling out suddenly tends to build the panic and creates that extra bit of friction that takes you over the edge - just relax while you're still inside.

 

I've found that pumping the pc muscle quite counter productive - my perineum/pc mussle tends to pump gently throughout intercourse - if your pc is very developed then the pumps are very powerfull and can literally bring about an unwanted ejaculation. I remember doing pc pumps over a few months, and for me it was generally counter productive - appart from the huge increase in the force and propulsion of the semen - I could probably have shot down a bird at that time

 

However I've not been working on redirecting the energy much - sometimes it happens on its own, but most times it doesn't, so I tend to ejaculate in the end...

[Ian]

I recommend experimenting with simply relaxing the PC muscle / pelvic floor.

 

Letting the sexual energy connect down the legs to the earth energy of which it is but an offshoot.

 

Only problem is this can be so effective you completely forget what you're doing.

[Trunk]

* shut my yap *

 

(carry on, just started a post and then realized I had nothing to say)

[jellyfish]

Thanks aiwei, mat and everyone else for your replies. I think I will do some more (careful) work on the MCO now