Selfless acts ?

[Nungali]

Okay selfish / selfless = bogus ... what about the essence of what I am talking about ?

 

Doing something that seems ..... 'an act purely to help others and not oneself'' ... the idea is that we do things like that because that is what we want to do - hence, it helps us (aside from the fact it helps others) .

 

I get what you are saying above ... IMO you are describing 'intelligence' there.

 

Intelligence - I do things to obtain gain and my actions also produce gain for others. (win win)

 

Thief - I do things to obtain gain by taking gain from others. (win lose)

 

Victim - I allow others to take my gain; I loose, they gain. ( lose win)

 

Stupidity - I do actions that make me loose gain and others loose gain around me. ( lose lose)

 

(stupidity is worse than theft as gain is still circulating in the system with theft, but it is removed from the system by the stupid)

[Z3N]

Silence is the distance between two sounds, but even that is still within the mechanism of the instrument taking the measurement in the first place.

 

If the point has reached its highest point then let it pierce into the other and open the door way between the two.

 

It is like when open up the doors and windows in your house letting the fresh air blow in, to only turn around to feel the soft warm light upon your face, catching you into a peaceful surprise.

[C T]

Okay selfish / selfless = bogus ... what about the essence of what I am talking about ?

 

Doing something that seems ..... 'an act purely to help others and not oneself'' ... the idea is that we do things like that because that is what we want to do - hence, it helps us (aside from the fact it helps others) .

 

I get what you are saying above ... IMO you are describing 'intelligence' there.

 

Intelligence - I do things to obtain gain and my actions also produce gain for others. (win win)

 

Thief - I do things to obtain gain by taking gain from others. (win lose)

 

Victim - I allow others to take my gain; I loose, they gain. ( lose win)

 

Stupidity - I do actions that make me loose gain and others loose gain around me. ( lose lose)

 

(stupidity is worse than theft as gain is still circulating in the system with theft, but it is removed from the system by the stupid)

Nungali, Do you think there is another stage higher than 'intelligence'?

 

sometimes, i think the intellect is quite a limited faculty, and cannot be relied upon to do what is best without fail to engender that win/win outcome that people like to wish to happen in all their interactions.

[chegg]

Shamanism defines 'to be selfless' as doing any activity that takes the mind off the self [ref. forgot].

 

That's a pretty simple definition to understand. It follows, from that simple and clear definition, that it would be difficult to say that the concept of being 'selfless' is a bogus idea.

 

 

 

 

Blessings

Edited December 21, 2013 by chegg

[Marblehead]

... but 'selfless acts' ; I still don't get it .... its an ego thing isn't it ???

Not necessarily. Some such acts can be non-egoic ever though they are done with intent.

[Marblehead]

Shamanism defines 'to be selfless' as doing any activity that takes the mind off the self [ref. forgot].

 

That's a pretty simple definition to understand. It follows, from that simple and clear definition, that it would be difficult to say that the concept of being 'selfless' is a bogus idea.

 

Blessings

That sounds easy, but it's not.

 

However, I will add that this condition arises whenever there is an act done when one is in a total state of wu wei.

[C T]

That sounds easy, but it's not.

 

However, I will add that this condition arises whenever there is an act done when one is in a total state of wu wei.

In a total state of wu wei... sounds fine. I would imagine that state to be selfless, conditionless, non-arising, non-ceasing, no actor, no 'I' that seeks to act or not act, hence no task as such to be done or undone. That's wu wei in its totality, no?

 

Now, a partial state of wu wei is whole different ball game altogether...

 

 

Ah... passing thoughts.

 

[Marblehead]

In a total state of wu wei... sounds fine. I would imagine that state to be selfless, conditionless, non-arising, non-ceasing, no actor, no 'I' that seeks to act or not act, hence no task as such to be done or undone. That's wu wei in its totality, no?

 

Now, a partial state of wu wei is whole different ball game altogether...

 

 

Ah... passing thoughts.

 

We are, at this point, in 100% agreement.

 

The other ball game is what has been spoken to in this thread. (And yes, that is where i live most of the time.)

[C T]

(And yes, that is where i live most of the time.)

I thought you lived in Florida most of the time. Guess thats just a decoy, to throw the non-wu wei-ers off your trail, eh?

 

I get it now. heehe...

[Captain Mar-Vell]

...

There are probably a lot of folk round here who are highly empathetic.

 

Sensitive.

 

I know I am.

 

I can find social interaction difficult, at other times I am very charming.

 

I think psychic material is always floating around.

 

I don't like crowds for instance.

...

[Marblehead]

I don't like crowds for instance.

Hehehe. Funny. I don't either but I didn't realize it until someone told me I didn't.

[suninmyeyes]

Okay selfish / selfless = bogus ... what about the essence of what I am talking about ?

 

Doing something that seems ..... 'an act purely to help others and not oneself'' ... the idea is that we do things like that because that is what we want to do - hence, it helps us (aside from the fact it helps others) .

...

This may be one way to show how interconnected we all are , as if we help others ,we help ourself too . In this case if done with strong intuiton or instinct or urge -- a person can even forget themself for a moment or two or ten and just act . Selfless .

Everyone has had those moments , not only saints and sages .

My opinion is that beeing "good " ( this does not mean stupid )makes us more transparent and therefore selfleless , easier to let go .

I think it is very organic and Human urge that has for many reasons not only been covered with rust , but put to logical explantions and therfore almost vulgarised . ( this I mean in general , not dissing the thread ) .

[Nungali]

Nungali, Do you think there is another stage higher than 'intelligence'?

 

 

MOST certainly !

 

sometimes, i think the intellect is quite a limited faculty, and cannot be relied upon to do what is best without fail to engender that win/win outcome that people like to wish to happen in all their interactions.

yes it is a limited faculty ... what I wrote above, I suppose,e relates more to the damage of stupidity in a social system as opposed to intelligence on a personal level.

[Nungali]

Shamanism defines 'to be selfless' as doing any activity that takes the mind off the self [ref. forgot].

 

That's a pretty simple definition to understand. It follows, from that simple and clear definition, that it would be difficult to say that the concept of being 'selfless' is a bogus idea.

 

 

Sure but I am talking about selfless in the terms as I explained them as an action that ..... oh, it doesn't matter, I defined that already, I thought we may have been able to NOT go in circles here ... whatever ...

Edited December 21, 2013 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Not necessarily. Some such acts can be non-egoic ever though they are done with intent.

 

Oh I get that ! We talked about that else where in another thread on karma ... about the old lady crossing the street.

 

An instant reaction to 'do what obviously needs to be done' IMO is not ego based.

 

I mean when people think someone has given up their all to help others and given up or sacrificed something to assist others. Even delaying advancement to existential bliss to 're-incarnate' on the 'gross earth plane' to assist others to advance is done because that is what one wants to do ... it is fulfilment of ones own intent and not done for the SOLE purpose of benefiting others ?

 

Maybe I have yet failed to communicate what it IS I am talking about ?

 

Maybe the tread title is confusing some ?

[Nungali]

This may be one way to show how interconnected we all are , as if we help others ,we help ourself too

 

AHA! Thankyou ! Great response !

 

 

 

. In this case if done with strong intuiton or instinct or urge -- a person can even forget themself for a moment or two or ten and just act . Selfless .

Yes, that is slightly different from what I am talking about, but I get this. As with the 'help the old lady' example.

 

 

Everyone has had those moments , not only saints and sages .

My opinion is that beeing "good " ( this does not mean stupid )makes us more transparent and therefore selfleless , easier to let go .

I think it is very organic and Human urge that has for many reasons not only been covered with rust , but put to logical explantions and therfore almost vulgarised . ( this I mean in general , not dissing the thread ) .

 

I think mine is a reaction to hearing a lot of people (not here) praise so-and so for doing all this stuff the benefiets others and not themselves ... yet I see the motivation is they do it because that is what THEY themselves wanted to do... and for some reason, just stating what seems obvious (and divorces the emotive or hopefull content of others ?) I get looked at like a baby eating Satanist or like I just head-butted Mother Teresa and stole the her purse (I have also been told I am soooo ... whats the word now ... irreverent ... that's it!

Edited December 22, 2013 by Nungali

[suninmyeyes]

Help the old lady is good stuff , not forced helping though . I mean it should be common sense , a natural response . There is something wrong if one does not help the old lady struggeling to cross the street . Not gonna just leave her there falling over and getting run down by traffic .

Some people need introducing the concept and hopefully by repetition it will become a more healthy mind pathway .

Also most of us people are still in baby stage of emotional and psychic development so naturally like children we learn by copying , which is what you speaking off .

So slowly we learn the only way we can , do not mind speed ,style and flavour .

 

Yes it is also true , this goody goodyness can grow into a twisted monster too if applied mindlessly .

 

In my opinion one way or another Mother Theresa did much good . No one is perfect , but many people were helped on physical level .

Also she become an archytype for goodness . Only this archetype was very much needed as a reminder and a image in subtler way as an ingridient to help form healthier psyche in order to counterbalance of what is currently going on on this planet .

Edited December 21, 2013 by suninmyeyes

[chegg]

I couldn't resist this one, similar to what was posted on another thread....

 

 

Good Intention Dude: "Here Mam, I see you are pregnant, let me help you cross this treacherous road"

 

Pregnant Woman: "Thankyou good kind sir, my name is Klara and your actions will not go without reward"

 

Good Intention Dude: "Thankyou. By the way, is it going to be a boy or a girl ?"

 

Pregnant Woman: "Well, its likely to be a boy and if I do give birth to a boy, I am going to call him Adolf. 'Adolf Hitler' will be his full name......Its got a nice ring to it don't you think ?"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Blessings of divinely directed good intentions

:wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub: :wub:

Edited December 22, 2013 by chegg

[Nungali]

I hate to think what the alternative is there? If you were a time traveller and back there, what would you do?

 

I hope it would be continued support of the pregnant woman (which in my system is a holy and sacred thing) , help in the birth and the upbringing of the child with a good father figure and some solid and balanced direction in life.

 

 

.... you wouldn't push her into the street would you Cheggy ?

[thelerner]

Don't care if its selfish or selfless. More important to help those who need it. Philosophy be damned.

[C T]

[C T]

Sounds like a song a modern Jesus could sing.

[chegg]

I hate to think what the alternative is there? If you were a time traveller and back there, what would you do?

 

I hope it would be continued support of the pregnant woman (which in my system is a holy and sacred thing) , help in the birth and the upbringing of the child with a good father figure and some solid and balanced direction in life.

 

 

.... you wouldn't push her into the street would you Cheggy ?

 

 

lol, If I had the technology/supernatural ability to go back in time, killing someone would not be necessary. Redirecting their destiny and the world's destiny would be fairly easy.

 

Doing that without the unnecessary loss of millions of lives would be a bit more difficult. I would need multiple trips back and forth....trial and error.

 

eg. move young Hitler to the UK. Go back to the future, see what happens. If another douche bag war-monger takes his place, go back, displace him. Repeat until no more wars.

 

Sounds like a good script for a scifi ? "Back-to-the-Future-War-Mongers"

 

 

 

>.................<

Edited December 22, 2013 by chegg

[Nungali]

BE CAREFULL Cheggy ... be very careful !

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1IKioDLEh8

[Marblehead]

Maybe I have yet failed to communicate what it IS I am talking about ?

 

Maybe the tread title is confusing some ?

That happens some times. But then, if we continue talking about "it" (your conceptual thought) we will likely all be talking about the same thing. But then, maybe not.