Zoroaster Created Judeo Christian Religions

[thelerner]

(Just wanted to let y'all know that I am still reading the thread, it's just that I have nothing to add at this point in the discussion.)

It seems to be caught in a repeating loop anyway.

[Marblehead]

It seems to be caught in a repeating loop anyway.

Yeah, that's why I stopped posting. Sometimes when we reach an unresolvable situation in a discussion we just need to agree to disagree and move on. But right now we are, as you suggested, still in the loop.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Oh, don't sell us all short. Hehehe.

 

(Just wanted to let y'all know that I am still reading the thread, it's just that I have nothing to add at this point in the discussion.)

 

I never suspect you left reading the thread. You are extremely patient.

[Nungali]

 

I am really bored to discuss with somebody who has never understood what has been going on Middle East.

 

If you believe in God and Prophet Moses, Prophet Jesus Christ and Prophet Muhammad are messengers of God, that means they got the divine information from God not from Zoroaster. We do not know whether Zoroaster was a Prophet or not. He may be or he may not be.

 

Coming to this Religious Studies issue, if you are a Pagan with an altar (you said it before), then all you can do is to reach bullshit results with bullshit theories.

 

If your secular Religious Studies is a multidisciplinary study based on history, geography and demography, the Semite language speaking socities (Jews, Arabs, Syriacs (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_language)) never ever spoke Persian instead of their native languages. NEVER.

 

Culturally speaking, they are very very very different and independent.

Again, where is this coming from? I never said they spoke Persian, they spoke their own language of course ... the same as you speak Turkish ... but you can understand and speak English cant you?

 

Cant you admit that there were traders and travellers and others between the two groups and some people could speak each others language ... and this helped the passing of ideas from one group to another ??? This is essential in understanding the developments and 'cr0ss-cultural fertilisation' in the middle-east and many other places. Religious belief systems need to be separated from religious studies otherwise one gets oneself into silly binds like saying no one spoke each others language as some type of point of proof for an argument and it makes the proposer look and the proposition look .... well, ... silly.

[Nungali]

 

.

 

The word Magians (in Turkish "Mecusi") is the word used in Arabic to denote Zoroastrians. Etymologically the word comes from the priests of Zoroastrianism.

 

The Zoroastrianism were of course known as the religion of Iran during Prophet Muhammad's time. There were no Zoroastrians among Arabs only a few Iranians living in Arabia. The main concept was the trade and both Iranians and Arab traders traveled to each other countries by camels. That is all.

 

Your Iranian friends are very right. You Westerners do not understand Middle East at all.

Exactly! This is what I have been saying all along, then you put up quotes to support and affirm what I have said ... it is not my opinion but opinion of the Holy Quran itself. I never said there were Zoroastrians living in Arabia ... where the hell did you get that from ???

 

Although you agree you say it is only trade ... who is trying to change what the Holy Quran and Mohammad instructed now ????

 

Yes ... they are people of the Book (as I said and some of you denied)

 

Yes, it may have been a political and economic consideration (as I said earlier and invited comments on)

 

yes, they did travel and trade and how do you think they did that ? By understanding each others language (as I also said earlier and you denied)

 

 

Seriously guys ... this is getting like when I taught year 7 at school except they were smarter and suffered less learning abilities

[Nungali]

It seems to be caught in a repeating loop anyway.

When an immanent conclusion seems dangerously close the tactic seems to be to go back and loop it thus preventing (them) from realising the conclusion

[Nungali]

In any case I have finished the posts about how some see that influence ... the context is finished ... now its just people making stuff up, trying to make out that is what I said and then attacking that in an attempt to discredit some peoples ideas and research ... as usual the WHOLEY RELIGIOUS viewpoint does not cut it ... and as usual the crucially important issues and questions are ignored . Which, in my opinion, in discussion, is the cowards way out .... just ignore 5 poignant questions in a post and react to one minor part of it .

 

Oh well ... it is the internet after all

Edited January 9, 2014 by Nungali

[Zhongyongdaoist]

Thanks Nungali, I appreciate all the work and effort you put into this as well as the good will you displayed in your attempts to deal with people who wished to disrupt it. All they did as far as I am concerned was to make themselves look bad.

[Nungali]

Thankyou.

 

I hope intelligent people, who did not previously realise, may have more information by which to come to a position of tolerance and understanding between peoples of different cultures and religions; that at heart and in spirit we are not all THAT different, and to realise that tolerance and understanding is one of the key religious principles taught by the FOUNDERS or many of the worlds religions, including Mohammad , who actually made laws backed up with religious teachings to ensure people of good faith looked after peoples of other faiths as well, aside from political and economic considerations.

 

Muslims at war, stopped to pray, WWI stopped for a moment to celebrate Christmas, 'Saladdin' refused information from Christian traitors , loosing a military advantage rather than listen to the cowardly voice of disgrace via treason.

 

Now look at the mess we are in.

[Marblehead]

Now seems to be a good time to do this.

 

If anyone is truely interested in Zoroastrianism there is a site that I have found to be an outstanding source to the religion and its founder, Zarathustra.

 

http://www.zarathushtra.com/

 

From when I did my early searches of the religion I felt that this site most accurately presented the truth as best as could be presented.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Again, where is this coming from? I never said they spoke Persian, they spoke their own language of course ... the same as you speak Turkish ... but you can understand and speak English cant you?

 

Cant you admit that there were traders and travellers and others between the two groups and some people could speak each others language ... and this helped the passing of ideas from one group to another ??? This is essential in understanding the developments and 'cr0ss-cultural fertilisation' in the middle-east and many other places. Religious belief systems need to be separated from religious studies otherwise one gets oneself into silly binds like saying no one spoke each others language as some type of point of proof for an argument and it makes the proposer look and the proposition look .... well, ... silly.

There is no cross cultural fertilization. This is not agriculture. Both cultures are very strong cultures. In both cultures, there are civilized city life. In both cultures, the literature is strong. The language is strong, rich. The tradition of poetry is extremely rich in both cultures. They did not mix. REPEAT. THEY DID NOT MIX.

 

Your religous studies is bullshit if you do not believe existence and uniqueness of God Almighty.

 

You call me silly? Your theory is silly 100%

Edited January 9, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Thanks Nungali, I appreciate all the work and effort you put into this as well as the good will you displayed in your attempts to deal with people who wished to disrupt it. All they did as far as I am concerned was to make themselves look bad.

 

Oh really? With your each post about me, you are lowering yourself. I really respected you in Confucius Qigong thread. You are one of the biggest disappointments in this forum. What a pity.

Edited January 9, 2014 by Isimsiz Biri

[Isimsiz Biri]

Thankyou.

 

I hope intelligent people, who did not previously realise, may have more information by which to come to a position of tolerance and understanding between peoples of different cultures and religions; that at heart and in spirit we are not all THAT different, and to realise that tolerance and understanding is one of the key religious principles taught by the FOUNDERS or many of the worlds religions, including Mohammad , who actually made laws backed up with religious teachings to ensure people of good faith looked after peoples of other faiths as well, aside from political and economic considerations.

 

Muslims at war, stopped to pray, WWI stopped for a moment to celebrate Christmas, 'Saladdin' refused information from Christian traitors , loosing a military advantage rather than listen to the cowardly voice of disgrace via treason.

 

Now look at the mess we are in.

 

I respect good intent. Always. However, you are not repeat not understanding one simple truth. Prophet Muhammad, Prophet Jesus Christ and Prophet Moses are NOT FOUNDERS of religion. They are the Messengers of God Almighty. They told people what they received from God. With this non believing point of view, you can not make a correct analysis of religions. Holy Quran is not written by Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad just received it from God's court. The same is valid for Gospel / Prophet Jesus Christ and Torah / Prophet Moses. The only difference is that Holy Quran has been protected and unaltered.

[Marblehead]

I respect good intent. Always. However, you are not repeat not understanding one simple truth. Prophet Muhammad, Prophet Jesus Christ and Prophet Moses are NOT FOUNDERS of religion. They are the Messengers of God Almighty. They told people what they received from God. With this non believing point of view, you can not make a correct analysis of religions. Holy Quran is not written by Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Muhammad just received it from God's court. The same is valid for Gospel / Prophet Jesus Christ and Torah / Prophet Moses. The only difference is that Holy Quran has been protected and unaltered.

And, of course, I must here point out that all "Holy" books are written by man, regardless of the so-called inspiration. All religions are created by man. I do not deny the wisdom of the Prophers. But their wisdom must be viewed in the context of the times and places they lived.

 

The religion itself is of little importance, it is the teachings within the religions that is important. If the teachings are universal truths then they are good. If they are not universal then they will naturally discriminate against some in fovor of others.

 

I do agree with you that the Prophets were not the founders of religions. It were the followers of the Prophets who established the teachings into the various religions. But again, time and place must be considered in order to understand the teachings.

[Isimsiz Biri]

And, of course, I must here point out that all "Holy" books are written by man, regardless of the so-called inspiration. All religions are created by man. I do not deny the wisdom of the Prophers. But their wisdom must be viewed in the context of the times and places they lived.

 

The religion itself is of little importance, it is the teachings within the religions that is important. If the teachings are universal truths then they are good. If they are not universal then they will naturally discriminate against some in fovor of others.

 

I do agree with you that the Prophets were not the founders of religions. It were the followers of the Prophets who established the teachings into the various religions. But again, time and place must be considered in order to understand the teachings.

 

No comment

[Marblehead]

No comment

Hehehe. I figured that would ruffle some feathers.

[Isimsiz Biri]

Hehehe. I figured that would ruffle some feathers.

 

No I already know your opinion and you already know mine. No need for unnecessary repeats.

[Nungali]

Now seems to be a good time to do this.

 

If anyone is truely interested in Zoroastrianism there is a site that I have found to be an outstanding source to the religion and its founder, Zarathustra.

 

http://www.zarathushtra.com/

 

From when I did my early searches of the religion I felt that this site most accurately presented the truth as best as could be presented.

Thanks, I will check it out.

 

I (obviously) like this one; Zoroastrian heritage society

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/

Run the cursor arrow over the top headings on the first page and check the subjects how much is in this site.

[Nungali]

 

Your religous studies is bullshit if you do not believe existence and uniqueness of God Almighty.

 

 

 

And yours is prejudiced if you do .

Edited January 9, 2014 by Nungali

[Nungali]

 

No comment

 

Only 'our' Isimsiz Biri could make a post like that

 

a comment that says it is not a comment ...

[Nungali]

 

No I already know your opinion and you already know mine. No need for unnecessary repeats.

 

Like 'no comment'? ... man you are cracking me up today

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

And yours is prejudiced if you do .

 

It is not prejudice. We often call them as REALITY.

[Isimsiz Biri]

 

Like 'no comment'? ... man you are cracking me up today

 

I see. Sometimes there is a short circuit in your brain and you enjoy yourself. No harm. Continue.

[Marblehead]

Thanks, I will check it out.

 

I (obviously) like this one; Zoroastrian heritage society

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/

Run the cursor arrow over the top headings on the first page and check the subjects how much is in this site.

Excellent site!

 

I had to read the first page of their discussion of Nietzsche's "Zarathustra" as I consider myself a Nietzschian. They did an excellent job and I will read the rest some later time.

[Marblehead]

Hehehe. I hope you guys aren't taking this too personally or taking yourselves too seriously. Yes, very different opinions and understandings. But really, a very good discussion as well. And there is wisdon on both sides.