Who's your Big Draw Daddy?

[beancurdturtle]

I've been following a Poll/Thread about "The Big Draw," desire, sexual energy & etc with interest and some amusement. I even jumped in with a couple questions, a silly comment, and a bit of topic obfuscation. In the thread there's a lot of discussion about controlling sexual energy, controlling orgasm, the meaning of desire and etc. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry31417

 

My feeling about dreams is that they are very organic and closer to our natural beingness than our waking experiences. Though influenced by our waking states, dreams are not necessarily relevant to them. Of course I might be wrong about this.

 

This morning I had a dream. A very pleasant dream. Later as I'm showering to prepare for work a thought pops into my huge, empty, cavernous head. The thought condensed into a question (questions actually) - questions that I don't have an answer for.

 

What if you practice something like sexuality in one way in your waking life to cultivate a given end, yet in your dreams it gets done differently? Is there a dichotomy here?

 

I'm curious to know people's thoughts about this, and the related questions:

- Is the un-reined process in dreaming states a balance to the "cultivation" process in waking states?

- If something gets done differently in dreams than the way it's done in waking states, does it mess with our holistic path?

- Is what does on in dreams interesting, but really not greatly impactful on our whole being?

 

I am asking largely in the context of sexuality and sexual energy. But answers in any context are appreciated because they all have relevance (at least to me at this point in time). Besides, I'm not a topic cop.

 

I realize my vocabulary is a bit unorthodox, but I hope you get the gist of my question. Thanks for your thoughts.

[zenbrook]

I'm curious to know people's thoughts about this, and the related questions:

- Is the un-reined process in dreaming states a balance to the "cultivation" process in waking states?

- If something gets done differently in dreams than the way it's done in waking states, does it mess with our holistic path?

- Is what does on in dreams interesting, but really not greatly impactful on our whole being?

I can't answer this from a taoist perspective - indeed, I would be fascinated to hear more about a taoist approach - but the (Buddhist) tantric practice of dream yoga suggests that our dreaming is a 'reversal' of our waking state. For instance, initially at least, engaging in meditation in the dream state is a poor idea as the usual movement from form towards emptiness emphasized in most waking state meditations results in loss of consciousness (lucidity) when practiced in the dream state. Thus the initial tantric emphasis with regard to practice in the dream state concerns multiplicity - moving from emptiness towards form - so that awareness is maintained. Only later, when one has substantial experience of lucidity and presence in the dream state would one move on to meditations that we would normally practice during the day.

 

Does that make any sense at all?

 

I guess you could say on the above analysis that there is a 'balance' between waking and dreaming processes. And it follows that something would have to be done differently to mess with our holistic path (however karma's still an issue whether dreaming or awake). As to whether dreams are either interesting or impactful - I think that depends purely on how you regard them and what you do with them.

 

Too tired, off to bed: to sleep, perchance to dream. Sorry if the above is bollocks.

 

Peace & goodnight,

ZenB

[beancurdturtle]

Thanks ZenB.

 

Sweet dreams!

[Treena]

For me, the difference between awake and asleep... Kind of opposite. When I'm asleep and dreaming, it's like I'm really where everything makes sense. Sometimes I bring wisdom out, sometimes I just bring confused me back out. When I'm awake, it's like I'm sleeping in our world of taxes, bills, crime but also flowers, ice cream, sun.

 

I know when I die I'll go into the dream world. So, for now, I enjoy the sun.

[zenbrook]

I know when I die I'll go into the dream world. So, for now, I enjoy the sun.

And, of course, from the tantric perspective, that's absolutely the case. According to Vajrayana, the process of falling asleep and entering the dream state exactly mirrors the process of dying. We first experience the dissolution of the elements, earth into water, water into fire etc., until space dissolves into itself and the clear light manifests. Then, instead of entering dream, we enter the turbulent visions of the bardo which we either recognize for what they are (the product of our minds natural luminosity) and are in that moment self-liberated, or don't, in which case we soon get to enjoy the sun once more.

 

Or at least, thus have I heard

 

'This day is a special day, it is yours.

Yesterday slipped away, it cannot be filled anymore with meaning.

About tomorrow nothing is known.

But this day, today, is yours, make use of it.

Today you can make someone happy.

Today you can help another.

This day is a special day, it is yours.'

 

(I don't know anything about this poem other than it's supposedly Indian, but it's lovely, and came to mind when I read your post Treena)

 

Peace,

ZenB

[Yoda]

I think dreams reveal the alignment between our minds and our souls/self & Self/ego and egolessness/etc. If they are at one, then no dreams. If they are pals then nice dreams, if they are at odds then conflicting dreams.

[三江源]

I noticed the dramatic shiift in my dream life, when I began practising. Prior to that I had a dream diary and studied dreams and had a therapist with whom I worked on my dreams.

 

Once I started doing qi gong. boof! no dreams.

 

I dream a handful of times a year now, usually abut moving into a bigger space!

[宁]

big draw is too advanced.

so why dont you start with the massage methods.

then move on to testicle breathing for a couple of years.

then move on to the energy exchange methods, with your woman.

then the power lock for a fiew years.

then you can try the finger lock. but you have to have mastered the previous practices.

then you can move to the big draw.

 

master chia gives them all away, coz he dont have secrets.

wait, he has

the secret is he learned them step by step, the oriental way.

we just rush in, head first.

 

that's a no-no

[fatherpaul]

I've been following a Poll/Thread about "The Big Draw," desire, sexual energy & etc with interest and some amusement. I even jumped in with a couple questions, a silly comment, and a bit of topic obfuscation. In the thread there's a lot of discussion about controlling sexual energy, controlling orgasm, the meaning of desire and etc. http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...amp;#entry31417

 

My feeling about dreams is that they are very organic and closer to our natural beingness than our waking experiences. Though influenced by our waking states, dreams are not necessarily relevant to them. Of course I might be wrong about this.

 

This morning I had a dream. A very pleasant dream. Later as I'm showering to prepare for work a thought pops into my huge, empty, cavernous head. The thought condensed into a question (questions actually) - questions that I don't have an answer for.

 

What if you practice something like sexuality in one way in your waking life to cultivate a given end, yet in your dreams it gets done differently? Is there a dichotomy here?

 

I'm curious to know people's thoughts about this, and the related questions:

- Is the un-reined process in dreaming states a balance to the "cultivation" process in waking states?

- If something gets done differently in dreams than the way it's done in waking states, does it mess with our holistic path?

- Is what does on in dreams interesting, but really not greatly impactful on our whole being?

 

I am asking largely in the context of sexuality and sexual energy. But answers in any context are appreciated because they all have relevance (at least to me at this point in time). Besides, I'm not a topic cop.

 

I realize my vocabulary is a bit unorthodox, but I hope you get the gist of my question. Thanks for your thoughts.

mr beancurdturle sir,

dreams are merely the minds way of putting the unresolved events of the day into some kind of order

(bear in mind, that the mind will accept a nuerotic order as well as a balanced order)

awakening is not a dream,

it is merely the endings of all dreams,

there are no more dreams because there is only order.

 

my humble words are yours to use or abuse

as you wish

 

 

peace and happy pancakes,

paul

[beancurdturtle]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.

[Treena]

'This day is a special day, it is yours.

Yesterday slipped away, it cannot be filled anymore with meaning.

About tomorrow nothing is known.

But this day, today, is yours, make use of it.

Today you can make someone happy.

Today you can help another.

This day is a special day, it is yours.'

 

Thanks so much for the poem, ZenB. It's perfect.