Its cold out there, what are your thoughts on Tummo?

[thelerner]

I've been exposed to tummo in a few arts. On the low level there is a basic 3 part breathing that seems common to all the practices I was shown. Breath in staying relaxed, hold staying tight, then relax breath out staying tight. Often done to a 7-7-7 or 10-10-10 rythym. Often there'll be a visualization of a fire nature.

 

These days during the hold portion I'll imagine white/blue hot heat in my belly spreading through my bones system. On the breathe out staying tight, I'll imagine flame red and yellow coming from my core. After a while it'll start feeling my solar plexus as another heat center. On the relaxed breath out I'll think of the flame more yellow and external on my skin.

 

Caveats are not to tighten too much. The 'secret ingredient' is chi, those who've got it will get hot, so beware of cooking yourself. This is a practice that can be definitely be over done. Personally I just get warm. I think there's healing and practical uses for tummo. It can make you more comfortable during the winter and possibly save your life in extreme situations. It can also be done and somewhat amplified by standing in a higher horse stance.

 

This is still the lower level of the spectrum. There are much higher levels ala tibetan monks as well those that have specific mudras, standing positions and mantras.

[dawei]

I don't know if I recommend attempting this at home... but since you asked:

 

http://www.highexistence.com/the-wim-hof-method-revealed-how-to-consciously-control-your-immune-system/

[BaguaKicksAss]

As far as heat goes, Zhang Zhuan gets me from a down jacket down to a tshirt in a few minutes in below freezing weather... is there any relation to tummo with this at all? I practice ZZ with natural breathing btw. I discovered this accidentally having to wait for buses in the snow .

[gatito]

My favourite tummo techniques: -

 

http://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/down.html

(://rab.uk.com/products/mens-clothing/down.html)

 

http://zippooutdoor.com/hand-warmers/

(://zippooutdoor.com/hand-warmers/)

 

100% safe and guaranteed to work

[gatito]

OOPS!

 

Sorry, I thought they'd gone out of business: -

 

Support Peacock - original and still the best!!

 

http://www.peacockhandwarmers.co.uk/

(://www.peacockhandwarmers.co.uk/)

 

The large version tucked into the small of the back will keep you toasty all day

[thelerner]

In olden days I did Winter Senshin training with the St Louis Ki Society. After a weekend intensive of martial arts and meditation it'd culminate in entering a running river in January. Very, very cold water. We'd enter like Aikidoist, relaxed and like it was no big deal. It was great experience, we'd walk to a nearby bed and breakfast and thaw and have a great meal.

 

But if someone couldn't get warm, the instructor would have them do bellow breaths, very similar to what Wim Hof recommends. I only remember it happening once, but the persons color came back pretty quickly.

[Wells]

Tummo is actually very similar to MP Lv 1 and works only when sitting grounded on the earth!

Otherwise there is no yin chi (apana) from below to mix in tantien with yang chi (prana) from above!

\MPPolice out!

Edited December 23, 2013 by Dorian Black

[suninmyeyes]

I am intersted what everyone has to say about tummo ...

 

This winter I am so much warmer than ever as whenever cold ( even at work ) paying attention to belly button area -- relaxing it , expanding upper body and holding for a sec or two (similar to Wim Hof method mentioned in link )...and actually even see light with open eyes sometimes moving and spreading , warming me up .

[thelerner]

Tummo is actually very similar to MP Lv 1 and works only when sitting grounded on the earth!

Otherwise there is no yin chi (apana) from below to mix in tantien with yang chi (prana) from above!

\MPPolice out!

So if someone could do strong tummo on a plane your theory would be wrong?

[Wells]

So if someone could do strong tummo on a plane your theory would be wrong?

 

No. Your question is wrong.

Tummo is not about raising body heat via visualisation (I guess that's what you mean with "doing strong tummo").

Everybody who read "The Bliss Of Inner Fire" knows that.

Edited December 23, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Green Tiger]

Tummo is actually very similar to MP Lv 1 and works only when sitting grounded on the earth!

Otherwise there is no yin chi (apana) from below to mix in tantien with yang chi (prana) from above!

\MPPolice out!

 

No. Your question is wrong.

Tummo is not about raising body heat via visualisation (I guess that's what you mean with "doing strong tummo").

Everybody who read "The Bliss Of Inner Fire" knows that.

 

So, for those of us who didn't read The Bliss of Inner Fire, what's it all about?

 

(by the way, we underline book titles in English. \Englishgrammarpolice out!)

[soaring crane]

I spent a weekend with Peruvian shaman doing this kind of exercise. Peruvian Qigong is strong stuff. I don't practice it, though, because I think it burns you up. How long do those Tibetans live anyway?

 

My winter warm-up Qigong is Swimming Dragon, with strong focus on the 3H.

[Wells]

 

 

So, for those of us who didn't read The Bliss of Inner Fire, what's it all about?

 

(by the way, we underline book titles in English. \Englishgrammarpolice out!)

 

The Bliss Of Inner Fire free .pdf preview of 51 pages!

 

Merry Christmas!

 

http://www.wisdompubs.org/sites/default/files/preview/Bliss%20of%20Inner%20Fire%20Book%20Preview.pdf

 

EDIT: Underlining book title!

Edited December 23, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Bar]

As far as heat goes, Zhang Zhuan gets me from a down jacket down to a tshirt in a few minutes in below freezing weather...

 

The same here. Zhan zhuang can give me a sweat after 15/20mn, depending on the posture, the breathing and the concentration points.

[Jox]

As far as heat goes, Zhang Zhuan gets me from a down jacket down to a tshirt in a few minutes in below freezing weather... is there any relation to tummo with this at all? I practice ZZ with natural breathing btw. I discovered this accidentally having to wait for buses in the snow .

 

I also do ZZ outside in below freezing weather ... I practice natural, counterforce breathing and bone breathing btw ... This makes me really warm up ...

Edited December 23, 2013 by Jox

[Aetherous]

no yin chi (apana)

 

Just fyi. It might be true that there is a yin qi you get only when seated on the bare earth...but apana vayu is something else. It is a vata subdosha inside of the body, that deals with the movements of air and ether elements for the purposes of excretion, urination, ejaculation, to an extent being grounded and calm, etc. It resides in the large intestine and anus. If apana were yin chi, you could simply treat apana vayu so that it's working 100% optimally, and not have to sit on the earth for those practices. Sitting on the earth might help with apana vayu, since it is the earth element which will bring balance to the air and ether elements (vata).

 

...

 

About the cold...some of the problem has to do with wind. If there's no wind out and it's cold, no problem...but get a little breeze and you will really feel how cold it is. Especially for a person whose channels are open as a result of practices, they will need to protect themselves against the wind...moreso than average Joe. I personally got a North Face Windwall 1 jacket...just a fleece...if sinched up at the bottom, with a good neck gaitor, good gloves, good hat, good layers for the pants...I'm toasty. It lets in about 2% of the wind...whereas if you had no jacket you'd be getting 100% of it...so basically no wind gets in. This jacket also is fine indoors, like a sweatshirt. It's very breathable while being windproof. I wear it basically all day everyday from fall to spring. Shovel snow with it on, or go for walks in Wisconsin, and am fine.

 

Tummo style breathing will open the channels in a strong way. You might feel warm, but that cold wind is going to penetrate regardless and cause problems. Also, I think it's just a side effect that tummo is warming...it's main purpose is tantric. Sometimes you won't get the warmth from it. And there are different methods of doing tummo.

[Wells]

Just fyi. It might be true that there is a yin qi you get only when seated on the bare earth...

 

"might"...no comment!

 

 

but apana vayu is something else. It is a vata subdosha inside of the body, that deals with the movements of air and ether elements for the purposes of excretion, urination, ejaculation, to an extent being grounded and calm, etc. It resides in the large intestine and anus.

 

I know that. But in the book mentioned above is explicitely stated that you have not only to suck the upper and lower energies of the body into the point below the navel but also the energies from around you.

Is it so hard to make the connection..?

 

 

If apana were yin chi, you could simply treat apana vayu so that it's working 100% optimally, and not have to sit on the earth for those practices. Sitting on the earth might help with apana vayu, since it is the earth element which will bring balance to the air and ether elements (vata).

 

The energy in your body might not be enough to get the desired result.

And what would happen if you suck all the energy from the rest of your body into one point?

Cellular death of the areas of the body without chi, possibly.

And you don't flow the energy back again, all the chi has to stay and dissolve in the central channel.

 

...

 

About the cold...some of the problem has to do with wind. If there's no wind out and it's cold, no problem...but get a little breeze and you will really feel how cold it is. Especially for a person whose channels are open as a result of practices, they will need to protect themselves against the wind...moreso than average Joe. I personally got a North Face Windwall 1 jacket...just a fleece...if sinched up at the bottom, with a good neck gaitor, good gloves, good hat, good layers for the pants...I'm toasty. It lets in about 2% of the wind...whereas if you had no jacket you'd be getting 100% of it...so basically no wind gets in. This jacket also is fine indoors, like a sweatshirt. It's very breathable while being windproof. I wear it basically all day everyday from fall to spring. Shovel snow with it on, or go for walks in Wisconsin, and am fine.

 

So there are practices which make you weaker than the average joe insted of stronger!

To which practices are you referring if I might ask?

 

Tummo style breathing will open the channels in a strong way. You might feel warm, but that cold wind is going to penetrate regardless and cause problems.

 

Yep! tell that to the tummo guys who dry dozens of wet towels on their backs while sitting nude in the snow!

 

Also, I think it's just a side effect that tummo is warming...it's main purpose is tantric.

 

True.

 

Sometimes you won't get the warmth from it.

 

Possibly not.

 

And there are different methods of doing tummo.

 

It's always stuffing "winds" into the central line via the opening below the navel.

[Aetherous]

I know that. But in the book mentioned above is explicitely stated that you have not only to suck the upper and lower energies of the body into the point below the navel but also the energies from around you.

Is it so hard to make the connection..?

 

There are a lot of false methods out there. It's easy to see why people would make the connection.

 

So there are practices which make you weaker than the average joe insted of stronger!

To which practices are you referring if I might ask?

 

Literally any internal energy practice will cause your channels to open more than someone else, making you more sensitive to the external environment. This also means you're healthier.

 

Yep! tell that to the tummo guys who dry dozens of wet towels on their backs while sitting nude in the snow!

 

I am, if they are reading this. lol

Edited December 23, 2013 by turtle shell

[Wells]

There are a lot of false methods out there. It's easy to see why people would make the connection.

 

Yeah, the new-age qigong stuff for example...

But we are talking about old-school stuff namely the tummo practice from the six yogas of naropa. The method with which Milarepa achieved ascension.

So it's a true, old and powerful method to achieve the highest goal.

 

Literally any internal energy practice will cause your channels to open more than someone else, making you more sensitive to the external environment. This also means you're healthier.

 

You are healthier because you are more prone to negative external energetic influences which harm your health?

Very logical, lol.

 

No Nei Kung system leads to such an effect. Every real Nei Kung system leads to Neijin, which is a much denser and stable energy than chi. Neijin is created in your center.

The new-age qigong systems on the contrary lead chi outwards into the aura, making it fluffy instead of dense, which makes it more prone to negative external influences. Bad choice!

 

I am, if they are reading this. lol

 

Ok, lol.

[BaguaKicksAss]

Just fyi. It might be true that there is a yin qi you get only when seated on the bare earth...but apana vayu is something else. It is a vata subdosha inside of the body, that deals with the movements of air and ether elements for the purposes of excretion, urination, ejaculation, to an extent being grounded and calm, etc. It resides in the large intestine and anus. If apana were yin chi, you could simply treat apana vayu so that it's working 100% optimally, and not have to sit on the earth for those practices. Sitting on the earth might help with apana vayu, since it is the earth element which will bring balance to the air and ether elements (vata).

 

...

 

About the cold...some of the problem has to do with wind. If there's no wind out and it's cold, no problem...but get a little breeze and you will really feel how cold it is. Especially for a person whose channels are open as a result of practices, they will need to protect themselves against the wind...moreso than average Joe. I personally got a North Face Windwall 1 jacket...just a fleece...if sinched up at the bottom, with a good neck gaitor, good gloves, good hat, good layers for the pants...I'm toasty. It lets in about 2% of the wind...whereas if you had no jacket you'd be getting 100% of it...so basically no wind gets in. This jacket also is fine indoors, like a sweatshirt. It's very breathable while being windproof. I wear it basically all day everyday from fall to spring. Shovel snow with it on, or go for walks in Wisconsin, and am fine.

 

Tummo style breathing will open the channels in a strong way. You might feel warm, but that cold wind is going to penetrate regardless and cause problems. Also, I think it's just a side effect that tummo is warming...it's main purpose is tantric. Sometimes you won't get the warmth from it. And there are different methods of doing tummo.

 

Well that explains why every teacher I've had says don't practice in the wind. Thanks . Rain, snow, whatever, but not wind...

[BaguaKicksAss]

"might"...no comment!

 

 

 

I know that. But in the book mentioned above is explicitely stated that you have not only to suck the upper and lower energies of the body into the point below the navel but also the energies from around you.

Is it so hard to make the connection..?

 

 

 

The energy in your body might not be enough to get the desired result.

And what would happen if you suck all the energy from the rest of your body into one point?

Cellular death of the areas of the body without chi, possibly.

And you don't flow the energy back again, all the chi has to stay and dissolve in the central channel.

 

 

So there are practices which make you weaker than the average joe insted of stronger!

To which practices are you referring if I might ask?

 

 

Yep! tell that to the tummo guys who dry dozens of wet towels on their backs while sitting nude in the snow!

 

 

True.

 

 

Possibly not.

 

 

It's always stuffing "winds" into the central line via the opening below the navel.

 

Nah, only weaker till you get used to it (at least in the practices I've done). Notice in most schools that the teacher can always withstand way more than the students...

[Aetherous]

You are healthier because you are more prone to negative external energetic influences which harm your health?

Very logical, lol.

 

If a person's wei qi is strong, they can handle it...for instance I haven't been sick at all in like 5 years or something. But the channels are quite open and this does mean cold wind is very noticeable. So then you simply do what it takes to protect against that. If I don't protect against it, and walk with some normal person who also doesn't...they will get sick and I won't. But I will notice it more, and thus it affects me more. Hope that makes sense.

 

All Taoists emphasized protecting against the six pernicious influences, acting in harmony with the seasons, etc. They didn't say, "practice neigong and you should go walk around naked in a blizzard for hours". Real practitioners aren't obsessed with the phenomenon, which aren't even the true phenomenon but simply things that appear to be supernormal. They hardly are. People can do that stuff of course (Wim Hoff trained some kid to do the same things for instance, soldiers do it all the time), but regardless of anything they are harming themselves. Cold closes the channels, regardless of who you are...wind disturbs vata dosha regardless of who you are. It is possible to be harmed and not notice it...in fact this is the state of being of most people. Only the sensitive notice a problem and are able to correct it.

 

Anyway, my point of view on this is not at all newage. It's from actual Taoism, Buddhism (for instance Master Nan Huai Chin), Ayurveda (cold closes the srotas which brings ill health, ama blocks the channels and thus decreases sensitivity in normal people), and Chinese medicine. And it's based on how things actually work...not on theories that if you train in "the real deal" you'll be invulnerable. The latter is probably the main reason why you see "masters" dying at age 60...they think because they have increased immunity and feel young on the inside they can do anything and neglect the Taoist teachings they've been exposed to.

 

No Nei Kung system leads to such an effect. Every real Nei Kung system leads to Neijin, which is a much denser and stable energy than chi. Neijin is created in your center.

The new-age qigong systems on the contrary lead chi outwards into the aura, making it fluffy instead of dense, which makes it more prone to negative external influences. Bad choice!

 

You're basically saying that yuan qi and wei qi are strengthened from neigong practices...and these would help prevent illness from cold wind. True.

 

But I'm saying every neigong system opens the channels (you're trying to tell me that your neigong system does not? lol), which leads to increased sensitivity to the external. The micro and macrocosms merge, so there is no inner and outer...the body is experienced like a mirage and is the same as anything else around it. This means the channels are open. Such an accomplished person walking out in the winter wind, will feel it going through them completely as if they barely had a body...much more than a normal person.

 

Anyway, don't believe me? I don't care. You will see one day if you practice anything.

[Wells]

Once more with feeling...

About the cold...some of the problem has to do with wind. If there's no wind out and it's cold, no problem...but get a little breeze and you will really feel how cold it is. Especially for a person whose channels are open as a result of practices, they will need to protect themselves against the wind...moreso than average Joe. I personally got a North Face Windwall 1 jacket...just a fleece...if sinched up at the bottom, with a good neck gaitor, good gloves, good hat, good layers for the pants...I'm toasty. It lets in about 2% of the wind...whereas if you had no jacket you'd be getting 100% of it...so basically no wind gets in. This jacket also is fine indoors, like a sweatshirt. It's very breathable while being windproof. I wear it basically all day everyday from fall to spring. Shovel snow with it on, or go for walks in Wisconsin, and am fine.

Tummo style breathing will open the channels in a strong way. You might feel warm, but that cold wind is going to penetrate regardless and cause problems.

 

Again, you are wrong and don't want to admit that you train a wrong practice that makes you weaker and prone against cold wind! Tummo practitioners sit in the snow in the ice-cold wind on the himalaya mountains and dry dozens of towels on their naked skin and are in perfect health.

Why? Because they build up dense hot chi that warms them from the inside!

 

If you are prone to cold winds, then your practice just transfers chi from the inside to your surface, reducing neichi. If your outside chi is affected, then there is no more stock in your inside which could move after. Therefore you get cold so fast. This also means that your inner organs are undernourished with neichi and that your chi field becomes hollow and fluffy. Surely not a real taoist practice and rather new-age, no matter what you or your master or the author tell you.

It's a bad practice as your increased affectivity shows. Your increased weichi feeds on your limited amount of neichi, weichi is quickly affected and reduced by outside influence. You will see where it will lead to: To a faster burn-out of your chi than the average joe.

 

If a person's wei qi is strong, they can handle it...for instance I haven't been sick at all in like 5 years or something.

 

Because you have triple the amount of clothes on your body than the average joe has to have to shield your weakness?

 

=>

Practitioners of dense hot inner power as the tummo guys are impervious to himalayan ice-cold winds. You are in your own words even more affective than the average guy. That should tell you something if you don't shut down your mind to be able to stick to some wrong belief!

 

 

My Reiki Master had the same problem like you btw. So...

Edited December 24, 2013 by Dorian Black

[Aetherous]

You want to argue rather than see where I could be correct (which I am). That's cool, but I'm not going to continue engaging you. I'll consider what you said about my practice being wrong.

 

Also, regarding tummo practitioners in the Himalayas, if I remember correctly they do some stuff outdoors but the drying of towels is done inside some kind of cave or room. I'm not at that point in my Buddhist learning yet, so I can't really say much more that's authentic about it. Its purpose is to open channels, so...

Edited December 24, 2013 by turtle shell

[Ya Mu]

For those of you who are not superman do consider the fact that walking outside in the wind when you have been inside can lead to what the Chinese call Wind Cold Invasion. Even just a brief dash outside to get the newspaper or your car keys.

There are some wonderful Chinese medicine formulas to keep on one's shelf that address this, and, if taken at the first sign of the cold, can ward it off.

 

For those of you who are superman do consider the fact that if you heat yourself to the point of perspiration then go outside in the cold wind the evaporative cooling can cause wind cold invasion. Same thing in the summer time working out under a ceiling fan.

 

I think it a perfectly valid point that if one drives the qi to the surface (without properly cultivating dan tian) that it can make the body weaker. I have seen this a lot with some of the "iron body" practices. I also think it a perfectly valid fact that, once the dan tian is cultivated, if the wei qi is reinforced, that one's susceptibility to "external pernicious influences" is less. I haven't been sick with cold or flu for a very long time and used to work on clients with the flu all the time. I know most of the long term neigong practitioners have less sick days than non practitioners; it appears common that long-term practitioners rarely get a cold. I also think that we should always err on the side of caution and use common sense. Wearing a windbreaker is common sense.

 

We have had neigong workshops in the winter where we heated really cold rooms to the point people were asking me to cut the heater off (it never was turned on). We always get really warm when doing the practice. I often go outside with just shirtsleeves in the winter and if I am doing Stillness-Movement or Gift of the Tao I stay warm. But I also use common sense, like turtle shell says, if I am going to be in a prolonged exposure situation, especially to the wind.

 

Master Wang was famous for swimming in lakes in the winter and for walking around in a short sleeve shirt during the winter. Somewhere I have a pic of him dated in January coming out of a lake with no clothes on. One of his friends gave it to me.

 

We have a clinical qigong technique where in most cases we can instantly warm someone up. I used it on a frozen goat one time - yes, frozen in the water - and revived her (oh well, must have been placebo as I just mentally convinced the goat to warm up by itself ), and have used it many times in clinic with success. A lot of people with not much qi are cold; for instance after a surgery or illness or injury.