A bad TB tendency: We Chase away teachers

[thelerner]

Its unfortunate but the tao bums has chased away a couple of very talented teachers. The very people who have the most experience and knowledge. They get hounded by theorists with only a fraction of their time in the art, or insulted by people with little first hand knowledge of the actual practice the teacher is writing about.

 

Its a shame. I don't like the TB policy of 'equality', granting no preference between a teacher with decades of experience and arm chair theorist. I think teachers should have more leeway, though I understand such things can be a difficult balancing act for mods.

[Marblehead]

I understand what you are saying and agree with you to a certain degree.

 

However, I do agree with the policy of equaliy for all members.

 

The PPFs were designed to eliminate what you see as a problem. The PPF owner has full edit control as to what are considered to be appropriate posts to their threads.

 

If the board starts offering preferences to certain members I think there would be even more problems created.

[soaring crane]

I concur wholeheartedly with both sentiments expressed above :-D

[3bob]

I would think and hope that qualified teachers might sometimes look around here a bit and drop hints or lead information, other than that this sure in the heck is not a "school" format, it's often more like a public park in NY city where things can go well or not so well. If one wants something private and particular then pointers to same might be found here but I don't expect more.

[C T]

Lin Ai Wei is still around.

 

I know why he is very much respected and welcomed here.

 

He is full of virtue, and more importantly, very humble and helpful in that fullness, in the sense that he is able to practice what he preaches. That could be the main reason why he is able to remain here and contribute positively to the growth of the community.

 

Those that had left... well, they have work to do still. Usually, some 'teachers' come and see if they can find a vibrant 'feeding ground'. People can sense this, its like a lion suddenly appearing at a zebra watering hole.

 

Thats how i see it.

[RiverSnake]

When your a teacher or a representative of a certain system or practice.....then you naturally become a larger target for people to attack and criticize for valid or invalid reasons. If your successful at some thing then you naturally attract detractors.....such is the way of things.

 

My 2 cents, Peace

Edited December 26, 2013 by OldChi

[BaguaKicksAss]

Its unfortunate but the tao bums has chased away a couple of very talented teachers. The very people who have the most experience and knowledge. They get hounded by theorists with only a fraction of their time in the art, or insulted by people with little first hand knowledge of the actual practice the teacher is writing about.

 

Its a shame. I don't like the TB policy of 'equality', granting no preference between a teacher with decades of experience and arm chair theorist. I think teachers should have more leeway, though I understand such things can be a difficult balancing act for mods.

 

I see one catch of giving preferential treatment to teachers, is how do we decide which ones are legit and which ones are not?

 

Personally I sort of prefer having the board equal for all members (though personally I would run my own board heavily biased towards my own teacher and his teachings, but I would also have some very different rules too lol). I think it works out for the most part. Another catch I see with giving certain teachers preferential treatment would be losing a lot of members, due to a large spammy posting content, as well as people really not respecting certain one's teachings. For example I'll just take an example here right now, do we give Vitalli preferential treatment? While most of us wouldn't mind, there are some whom think he is not qualified. Sorry for using you as the example Vitalli, you are just the one who seems to get the most flak lately.

[soaring crane]

Lin Ai Wei is still around. and welcomed here.

 

Is he active in any threads at the moment?

[Thunder_Gooch]

Its unfortunate but the tao bums has chased away a couple of very talented teachers. The very people who have the most experience and knowledge. They get hounded by theorists with only a fraction of their time in the art, or insulted by people with little first hand knowledge of the actual practice the teacher is writing about.

 

Its a shame. I don't like the TB policy of 'equality', granting no preference between a teacher with decades of experience and arm chair theorist. I think teachers should have more leeway, though I understand such things can be a difficult balancing act for mods.

 

Don't assume because someone is regarded as a popular teacher they have "the most experience and knowledge".

 

Don't assume everyone who get's labeled an arm chair theorist is.

 

The most recent example of this was a teacher claiming that all systems work with the same yin chi, there isn't more than one energy called yin chi by any system on earth, that yin chi can be absorbed ungrounded up in the sky in an airplane, synthetic materials do not block it's flow, and a normal human mind in a waking state of consciousness can perceive yin energy.

 

This is a direct contradiction to what another school and even more famous master teaches.

 

The solution to this contradiction?

 

Attack the character of the people pointing it out, rather than swallow his pride.

 

Things like:

 

"I am a teacher, you have only watched DVDs, read books and talked to students."

 

"I am a teacher, you are a pimply faced teenage goon living with his parents."

 

"Your school/teacher never taught that, you misunderstood, you are a neophyte."

 

"You are a arm chair theorist with no first hand knowledge."

 

 

 

 

I personally care about the truth, and I despise spiritual roleplay and make believe.

 

Things don't have to be so complicated.

 

Sometime popular teachers are better at creating cult of personality, than any energetic developments.

 

Sometimes popular teachers teachers are wrong, especially when they claim to speak for all systems outside of their own.

 

 

 

There would have been no fight had he conceded something like:

 

"Your system works with something which behaves completely opposite of what mine does, yet they share the same name for it. Perhaps each system works with something different, I can't speak for systems outside of my own."

 

 

 

Working to discredit the person pointing out the contradictions between their teachings and those of other schools says a lot about the character of the teacher

 

caveat emptor

Edited December 26, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[Marblehead]

I used to be a teacher of the heart.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I think an even larger problem is potential new members with great knowledge and experience who are chased away from even joining. There have been a couple who I would like to ask to join, but considering their nature of utmost respect for all beings ideal, I have not yet sent the invite. I have seen them display this with their postings in other areas.

[Wells]

I guess everybody will agree with me in one point:

 

Everybody gets the teacher and the system he/she deserves.

[子泰]

Is he active in any threads at the moment?

he still posts in the expedient means thread, and lurks here and there to end up shaking his head at the buddhist section

[SonOfTheGods]

A new $ifu pops up every $econd

[dawei]

I think an even larger problem is potential new members with great knowledge and experience who are chased away from even joining. There have been a couple who I would like to ask to join, but considering their nature of utmost respect for all beings ideal, I have not yet sent the invite. I have seen them display this with their postings in other areas.

 

So in the final analysis.... TTB is full of cats and dogs chasing each other around in circles

[Friend]

So in the final analysis.... TTB is full of cats and dogs chasing each other around in circles

Welcome to the "Animal Farm".

[soaring crane]

he still posts in the expedient means thread, and lurks here and there to end up shaking his head at the buddhist section

I knew there was something about him that I like :-D

[thelerner]

 

 

Don't assume because someone is regarded as a popular teacher they have "the most experience and knowledge".

 

Don't assume everyone who get's labeled an arm chair theorist is.

 

The most recent example of this was a teacher claiming that all systems work with the same yin chi, there isn't more than one energy called yin chi by any system on earth, that yin chi can be absorbed ungrounded up in the sky in an airplane, synthetic materials do not block it's flow, and a normal human mind in a waking state of consciousness can perceive yin energy.

 

This is a direct contradiction to what another school and even more famous master teaches.

 

The solution to this contradiction?

 

Attack the character of the people pointing it out, rather than swallow his pride.

 

Things like:

 

"I am a teacher, you have only watched DVDs, read books and talked to students."

 

"I am a teacher, you are a pimply faced teenage goon living with his parents."

 

"Your school/teacher never taught that, you misunderstood, you are a neophyte."

 

"You are a arm chair theorist with no first hand knowledge."

 

 

 

 

I personally care about the truth, and I despise spiritual roleplay and make believe.

 

Things don't have to be so complicated.

 

Sometime popular teachers are better at creating cult of personality, than any energetic developments.

 

Sometimes popular teachers teachers are wrong, especially when they claim to speak for all systems outside of their own.

 

 

 

There would have been no fight had he conceded something like:

 

"Your system works with something which behaves completely opposite of what mine does, yet they share the same name for it. Perhaps each system works with something different, I can't speak for systems outside of my own."

 

 

 

Working to discredit the person pointing out the contradictions between their teachings and those of other schools says a lot about the character of the teacher

 

caveat emptor

I can't help but think you still equate long posts with lots of extra spaces with proof. Here's what I think:

For the record I don't think you're an arm chair practitioner. I'd know you're not if you simple put down a little about what your practice and hours you spent at it, or just the time spent. To me that is the best indication that separates the serious practitioner from the arm chair personnel. Which I've been tending to be lately, though it wasn't always thus.

 

I don't know about popular teachers, but since I've talked and taken a seminar with him, I know Ya Mu has remarkable credentials of working closely with a rare master and more then most lives his practice. He's a healer who practices a healing gi gung and shares it in seminars. Fellow bums have gotten quite a bit from his practice.

 

On this site, most often Mo Pai practitioners seem to diss and argue with each other and others. That one is aimed at you. I think you're overly defensive and it makes you and the system look insecure. I think that insecurity puts a chip on your shoulder and you're constantly on the attack.

 

Also, imo get over the yin chi argument. How many times have you brought it up? 20 ,30, more(?) times, its a difference of opiinion in 2 different practices about something that's so emphemeral that it can't be readily seen or touched.

 

 

About teachers. I'd admit someone saying they are doesn't necessarily mean much. But if they write with maturity and show experience that shows something. If a person or fellow members with some experience go to there classes and report that they're solid that means a little more. If members here have practiced there system for a while and report there progress that means even more.

 

MPG your practice is quite mysterious. The system has publicly disavowed all Westerners. You've never named your teacher, you won't say what your practices are (even roughly). You won't say how much or how long you've practiced. Yet you want us to assume you know anything other then how to quarrel online?

Edited December 26, 2013 by thelerner

[Aetherous]

Lin Ai Wei is still around.

 

I know why he is very much respected and welcomed here.

 

He is full of virtue, and more importantly, very humble and helpful in that fullness, in the sense that he is able to practice what he preaches. That could be the main reason why he is able to remain here and contribute positively to the growth of the community.

 

Those that had left... well, they have work to do still. Usually, some 'teachers' come and see if they can find a vibrant 'feeding ground'. People can sense this, its like a lion suddenly appearing at a zebra watering hole.

 

Thats how i see it.

 

Truth!

[Trunk]

We're broadening our rules for moderating based on communication style, not based on teacher or other status.

Things have not gelled yet as far as specific wording... for now I'm giving mods broader discretion to moderate creatively based on appropriate-to-situation.

[Thunder_Gooch]

You've never named your teacher, you won't say what your practices are (even roughly). You won't say how much or how long you've practiced. Yet you want us to assume you know anything other then how to quarrel online?

To be honest the less information I give others to use as ammo against me in debate and arguments, the better. What I have seen and experienced, really is private and best kept that way.

 

I met Jim McMillan in 2006. I've logged as many hours as have been realistic while working full time.

 

I don't want you to assume I know anything though, I want you to assume that Jim McMillan and Kosta Danaos being students of Chang do know what he taught.

 

What I think shouldn't factor into the equation, Jim's and Kosta's words should speak for themselves.

 

 

About teachers. I'd admit someone saying they are doesn't necessarily mean much. But if they write with maturity and show experience that shows something.

When Jim released his book, everyone teased and taunted him over how bad the grammar and spelling was, and chided him about not having a proof reader and editor.

 

He was the top western student surpassing many of his Indonesian seniors even.

 

Yet, they made him out to be an idiot who didn't know what he was talking about.

 

“A dog is not considered a good dog because he is a good barker.

 

A man is not considered a good man because he is a good talker.”

 

-Chuang Tzu

 

 

I think you're overly defensive and it makes you and the system look insecure. I think that insecurity puts a chip on your shoulder and you're constantly on the attack.

If I were a level 72 master I would would be on the attack even more so.

 

The way I see it most teachers spread disinformation, and create an ocean of fake nonsense that leads people away from real teachings.

 

I am ashamed in real life to call myself spiritual, to identify with any type of energetic practice, to even speak about it in public.

 

This is because peoples idea of spirituality get's drawn to newage nonsense, and it is next to impossible to break the connotations that go with it.

 

This whole spiritual culture that exists is in my opinion the literal antithesis of true spirituality.

 

Seeing as I want the culture to change, yes I guess I will always be on the attack.

 

 

 

On this site, most often Mo Pai practitioners seem to diss and argue with each other and others.

I know of only a handful of mo pai practitioners who post on this board, at most 5.

 

I don't believe I've ever argued with them.

 

The arguments come from people who don't understand level one even.

Edited December 27, 2013 by More_Pie_Guy

[BaguaKicksAss]

So in the final analysis.... TTB is full of cats and dogs chasing each other around in circles

 

Well us Bagua folks prefer to flank them and attack from behind .

 

The cats and dogs thing with TTBs though, yeah pretty much sometimes lol.

[Dolokhov]

Lin Ai Wei is still around.

 

I know why he is very much respected and welcomed here.

 

He is full of virtue, and more importantly, very humble and helpful in that fullness, in the sense that he is able to practice what he preaches. That could be the main reason why he is able to remain here and contribute positively to the growth of the community.

 

Those that had left... well, they have work to do still. Usually, some 'teachers' come and see if they can find a vibrant 'feeding ground'. People can sense this, its like a lion suddenly appearing at a zebra watering hole.

 

Thats how i see it.

 

As a teacher should be:

 

"Those who presume themselves are not distinguished

Those who praise themselves have no merit

Those who boast about themselves do not last"

-Tao Te Ching, Chapter 24

[h.uriahr]

Santiago Dobles is the Prime Example of an Awesome Teacher who left..

[h.uriahr]

I can't help but think you still equate long posts with lots of extra spaces with proof. Here's what I think:

For the record I don't think you're an arm chair practitioner. I'd know you're not if you simple put down a little about what your practice and hours you spent at it, or just the time spent. To me that is the best indication that separates the serious practitioner from the arm chair personnel. Which I've been tending to be lately, though it wasn't always thus.

 

I don't know about popular teachers, but since I've talked and taken a seminar with him, I know Ya Mu has remarkable credentials of working closely with a rare master and more then most lives his practice. He's a healer who practices a healing gi gung and shares it in seminars. Fellow bums have gotten quite a bit from his practice.

 

On this site, most often Mo Pai practitioners seem to diss and argue with each other and others. That one is aimed at you. I think you're overly defensive and it makes you and the system look insecure. I think that insecurity puts a chip on your shoulder and you're constantly on the attack.

 

Also, imo get over the yin chi argument. How many times have you brought it up? 20 ,30, more(?) times, its a difference of opiinion in 2 different practices about something that's so emphemeral that it can't be readily seen or touched.

 

 

About teachers. I'd admit someone saying they are doesn't necessarily mean much. But if they write with maturity and show experience that shows something. If a person or fellow members with some experience go to there classes and report that they're solid that means a little more. If members here have practiced there system for a while and report there progress that means even more.

 

MPG your practice is quite mysterious. The system has publicly disavowed all Westerners. You've never named your teacher, you won't say what your practices are (even roughly). You won't say how much or how long you've practiced. Yet you want us to assume you know anything other then how to quarrel online?

He does know how to quarrel