Filling up the lower Dan Tien- How and Why

[silent thunder]

I'm bringing my ldt into the shop for some work next week...

[h.uriahr]

Don't forget to close the anal sphincter. You can't be a navel gazer without also being an anus squeezer.

 

 

I should've explained better but by 'locking the lower floor' that's what I meant. The taint balls n cheeks.

[h.uriahr]

Thanks for the definitions. They are relative for those who, only, wear the shoes for one side. One would have a different view if one sees both sides of the story. Anyway, one has to be experienced to see it like someone has been saying here constantly.

As you can see is more of a cultural thing than what you call racism. I don't know have you been noticed in the past few months, there were some Chinese friends came to visit the forum and using the same tone as I was. However, they did not stay too long because they wear not accepted here due to the difficulty in cultural communication. Unfortunately, that is the ways things are. The reason that I am sticking around is because I had been exposed to the western culture and try to break the ice gap. Even though, I know due the constitutional rights, there are certain things are restricted not to say in public; but, hey, how are we going to communicate without some sacrifice. Somehow, we put ourselves in a dilemma.

PS.....

I do thank you for all your endurance for my presence.

 

Thank you for your selfless act of good will. You've done a splendid job of breaking the gap and you've also done a most excellent job of teaching us 'lowly and unworthy' westerners. So now maybe you can explain further on how we actually fill the...oh excuse me, I mean 'sink' the qi into the lower dantian? If of course we are found worthy, if not please let me know so I can go shame myself.

[BaguaKicksAss]

I should've explained better but by 'locking the lower floor' that's what I meant. The taint balls n cheeks.

 

Uhm, I might have some difficulty with that one . Well 1/3 of that anyways...

[h.uriahr]

Uhm, I might have some difficulty with that one . Well 1/3 of that anyways...

 

I'm sorry but it's a gender specific exercise! You can't do it! Gotcha good BKA! Just because you're lacking in the balls department doesn't meant you can't get the benefits of da big squeeze! Instead of the TBC technique you'll perform the TPC technique no biggie

[ChiDragon]

Thank you for your selfless act of good will. You've done a splendid job of breaking the gap and you've also done a most excellent job of teaching us 'lowly and unworthy' westerners. So now maybe you can explain further on how we actually fill the...oh excuse me, I mean 'sink' the qi into the lower dantian? If of course we are found worthy, if not please let me know so I can go shame myself.

Thank you for the kind words! There is nothing to be ashamed of but it's only a matter of mutual understanding.

 

In regards to "sink chi to the LDT". It is merely a description for a feeling that below the navel when a deep breath was taken by someone.

 

Here is the sequence for a normal deep breath only:

The air went into the nostrils filling up the lung fully, the diaphragm goes downward causing the abdomen to be expanded all the way. Under the condition at this instance, it was said to be that "the chi was being sunk to the Dan Tien". The Chinese Taoist called the location where the abdomen is the "丹田" but, for simplicity, it was understood it was referring to as the "low Dan Tien".

 

If you have noticed that any martial artist or Chi Kung practitioner, the first thing that they do was to take a deep breath. Under the instruction from a teacher, the first thing he will do is to take a deep breath. Then tell the student: "This is Chi sunken to the Dan Tien". Therefore, physically, the student took a deep breath; and mentally was understood it was 氣沉丹田(Chi sunken to the Dan Tien) with no questions ask.

Edited January 6, 2014 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

true, but the deeper the breath, the more internal the breath also - my belly doesnt get big unless I have just been really exerting myself its all about mastering the internal dynamics

[dwai]

Thank you for the kind words! There is nothing to be ashamed of but it's only a matter of mutual understanding.

 

In regards to "sink chi to the LDT". It is merely a description for a feeling that below the navel when a deep breath was taken by someone.

 

Here is the sequence for a normal deep breath only:

The air went into the nostrils filling up the lung fully, the diaphragm goes downward causing the abdomen to be expanded all the way. Under the condition at this instance, it was said to be that "the chi was being sunk to the Dan Tien". The Chinese Taoist called the location where the abdomen is the "丹田" but, for simplicity, it was understood it was referring to as the "low Dan Tien".

 

If you have noticed that any martial artist or Chi Kung practitioner, the first thing that they do was to take a deep breath. Under the instruction from a teacher, the first thing he will do is to take a deep breath. Then tell the student: "This is Chi sunken to the Dan Tien". Therefore, physically, the student took a deep breath; and mentally was understood it was 氣沉丹田(Chi sunken to the Dan Tien) with no questions ask.

If you don't feel the Qi actually sinking into the Dan Tien, you are not sinking the Qi to the Dan Tien. If you feel the Qi sinking into the Dan Tien, it will feel like Qi is sunken into the Dan Tien.

 

[thamosh]

To me its about being honest with yourself and having authentic practice.

 

I was at the work the other day. Going thru the latest email to hit engineering dept about another iphone problem that I had to look into solving. As i was working a beam of sun light shined thru a crack from the window blinds. When this ray hit me it activated my shen and It started to heal me and I was getting a charge from it. I looked out the window and realized the sun was setting. When I realized what was happening I went outside to bath and charge up in this light.

 

This is something I noticed that only happens as the sun rises and sets and no other time of the day.

 

This made me understand that there is something more to sunlight and that there is different types.

 

This is something that i wasnt told about beforehand but it is something I learned thru true practice.

 

Teaching is about mercy. The mercy the master has to accept the student and teach then the truth and the mercy that student will show when he passes that truth on.

 

Note: (This happens everytime this type of sunlight hits me.)

Edited January 7, 2014 by thamosh

[silent thunder]

The action of Tao is like a bellows...

neither push nor pull

dynamic flux

[dawei]

As you can see is more of a cultural thing than what you call racism. I don't know have you been noticed in the past few months, there were some Chinese friends came to visit the forum and using the same tone as I was. However, they did not stay too long because they wear not accepted here due to the difficulty in cultural communication. Unfortunately, that is the ways things are. The reason that I am sticking around is because I had been exposed to the western culture and try to break the ice gap. Even though, I know due the constitutional rights, there are certain things are restricted not to say in public; but, hey, how are we going to communicate without some sacrifice. Somehow, we put ourselves in a dilemma.

 

PS.....

I do thank you for all your endurance for my presence.

 

The positive side of self-delusion is that our hand never tires of being self-serving and our tongue never tires of self-promotion. As Walker suggested: When one needs attention they find ways to feed on others.

 

Those others did not last because of cultural difference but because they deeply understood the differences in the culture and could communicate it in either language with complete wit and sarcasm. There was no problem in their communication; they spoke clearly and debated fiercely. They had no need for attention per se. They wanted to feed others, not feed on them.

 

Your definitely not sticking around due to exposure to the west. Just look at the grammar and writing; just look at the lack of comprehension of western phrases and sarcasm and wit. You constantly don't understand english sentences and meanings. This thread alone has many examples. Your lack of immersion is the problem. You don't care to truly learn about the culture you claim as your home for 40+ years (guess).

 

It is mostly surface level... fetish on translation of words without deeper meaning conveyed. I watched the series Mob City and chinese translated wise-guys as 'smart men'...

 

Yes ChiD... there is a Santa Claus...

[Brian]

 

The positive side of self-delusion is that our hand never tires of being self-serving and our tongue never tires of self-promotion. As Walker suggested: When one needs attention they find ways to feed on others.

<snip>

I think your post is spot-on, dawei, and I think the opening paragraph applies just as strongly to another TTB member I won't name...

[ChiDragon]

If you don't feel the Qi actually sinking into the Dan Tien, you are not sinking the Qi to the Dan Tien. If you feel the Qi sinking into the Dan Tien, it will feel like Qi is sunken into the Dan Tien.

 

 

The best quote of the day, yet, pertaining to this thread.

Edited January 7, 2014 by ChiDragon

[joeblast]

If you don't feel the Qi actually sinking into the Dan Tien, you are not sinking the Qi to the Dan Tien. If you feel the Qi sinking into the Dan Tien, it will feel like Qi is sunken into the Dan Tien.

 

descent of psoas-diaphragm junction from solar plexus level to dantien level spanning the duration of the inhale

+

similar power curve for perineum (apropos of natural/reverse phase)

+

slight inward intent at qihai point (direct flow to dantian instead, use mudras here, etc, makes me recall that jiang vid)

+

turning the light around at the niwan

 

want to light up shushumna, take the upper and lower fields and torque 'em against one another.

[ChiDragon]

If you feel the Qi sinking into the Dan Tien, it will feel like Qi is sunken into the Dan Tien.

Beyond that is all imaginary for theoretical and instructional purposes.

[joeblast]

its a shame you've never come across anyone with demonstrable potential

[UTI]

Sorry for not reading through all of the thread before posting, just thought I'd lay my two cents. I'll read the rest soon.

 

I have been practicing a family lineage of nei dan now for a few years, and it stresses the importance of filling the lower dantian as a prerequisite for opening the other meridians of the body, cultivating the upper dantian, and opening the greater heavenly circuit. However, it is filled through a long alchemical process, which involves more than simply breathing. It is, in this tradition, via circulation through the ren and du mai, focus along certain areas, contraction of the right muscles at the right time, and a synthesis of several simultaneous inner processes, that the lower dantian is filled.

 

Filled as a word is probably misleading. Full is, in this content and my opinion, when there is an abundance of qi to such an extent that the pressure of outflow it exerts is so big that it exerts it on the rest of the body continuously, keeping the regular meridians open without needing the "push" of our intention. In my experience there is a difference between the space of the abdomen that can accomodate qi through inhalation and exhalation (the sea of qi), and the space where true yang is cultivated (the true elixir field). This latter space can be filled indefinitely, and when the capacity to hold what is being put there is insufficient, it will let its contents out into the rest of the energy system. A sort of "flowing over". This increases the body's general capacity, and in effect also it's capacity to hold qi. Thus, the more you fill the dantian, the more it can in turn be filled. Is it then ever "full"? Beats me, I'm a novice. However, I find that when treating patients, using qi filled through the sea of qi is sufficient, and this can be done with each breath.

 

The process is described in alchemical terms in the Can Tong Qi, and illustrated in the Nei Jing Tu. But to be properly understood, I do believe a teacher is required. During the years I have practiced it I have come a bit of a way, to the point that I can use my qi when doing acupuncture treatments with good results, but it is not without my teacher having to correct me once in a while (read as quite often) when I start straying off the actual path of practice for lesser ones. It takes lots of time, and lots of focus. I meditate three times a day sitting, and do semi-active practices in my day-to-day activities. I have been doing it for many years, and am still doing the same exercises as when I started. This is quite normal. There's no quick path. Without my teacher, I would have come nowhere. I'd probably be in the OTO chanting enochian or somesuch.

 

If any taobum lives in stockholm or the vicinity and wishes to learn from him, I can gladly give you his name and he will teach you if he wants to.

 

That being said, the rewards are great, and we all have so much time. Much more than we have patience, but that is also something we must learn to cultivate.

 

As a novice, that's all I know and can share, and even what I have said I am not so sure of when applied outside of myself.

 

Peace

[BaguaKicksAss]

Misspronounced Enochian at that . (sorry couldn't resist)

 

What you have said holds true with my experiences as well.

[UTI]

True that, Bagua Also, good luck trying to find a teacher for enochian! I'm sure the scholars are in strong disagreement over pronunciation. The older the knowledge, the greater the disarray.

[BaguaKicksAss]

True that, Bagua Also, good luck trying to find a teacher for enochian! I'm sure the scholars are in strong disagreement over pronunciation. The older the knowledge, the greater the disarray.

 

I go by the original MS, and have been teaching it for quite some time. I was fortunate enough to find a couple of very good teachers in it when I started. Actually the scholars just go by how the Enochian Angels originally told Dee and Kelly how to pronounce it. It is them newfangled occult orders that went and changed it . Fortunately Dee kept every word of the skrying sessions. Yes sure some were lost, but the pronunciation bit is at least clear...

 

PS ever noticed the EE's just love qigong and TCM? .

[UTI]

I go by the original MS, and have been teaching it for quite some time. I was fortunate enough to find a couple of very good teachers in it when I started. Actually the scholars just go by how the Enochian Angels originally told Dee and Kelly how to pronounce it. It is them newfangled occult orders that went and changed it . Fortunately Dee kept every word of the skrying sessions. Yes sure some were lost, but the pronunciation bit is at least clear...

 

PS ever noticed the EE's just love qigong and TCM? .

 

That's very interesting indeed! You must have been very lucky, to find those teachers! It's amazing how we can be lead to a way that suits us. I wrote the thing about chanting enochian because that is a path that doesn't suit me at all, yet i pursued it for a while. Now I read chinese quite fluidly in stead, but I can't say it was easy to learn. Far easier than it was for me to try and learn hebrew, enochian or sanskrit.

 

I have met many, though, from there, that are very interested in TCM and qigong. I guess wherever you start walking, people who seek a similar goal will cross similar paths.

[BaguaKicksAss]

That's very interesting indeed! You must have been very lucky, to find those teachers! It's amazing how we can be lead to a way that suits us. I wrote the thing about chanting enochian because that is a path that doesn't suit me at all, yet i pursued it for a while. Now I read chinese quite fluidly in stead, but I can't say it was easy to learn. Far easier than it was for me to try and learn hebrew, enochian or sanskrit.

 

I have met many, though, from there, that are very interested in TCM and qigong. I guess wherever you start walking, people who seek a similar goal will cross similar paths.

 

I was more teasing about the Enochian as I figured that wasn't your main path (well that and the various occult orders only use a part of it). I have found that for whatever reason most people don't get along with it, or at least not past the calls and a couple of rituals.. it's sort of odd that way.

 

I find it very awesome that the teachers we need, and often very high quality ones come to us! It has happened a few times in my life and I am very grateful. Though on the otherhand, I did run into a couple of uhm, not so great ones along the way too lolol.

 

Btw the Enochian teachers I ran into had both been doing it for 20 years already!! Obtaining the manuscripts back in the 70's when they started was MUCH more difficult!

 

PS we have a nice Hermetic section here, in case you haven't happened across it yet . (haven't read your posts yet).

[SonOfTheGods]

"feeding and digesting" works for me

[Jock]

Sorry for not reading through all of the thread before posting, just thought I'd lay my two cents. I'll read the rest soon.

 

I have been practicing a family lineage of nei dan now for a few years, and it stresses the importance of filling the lower dantian as a prerequisite for opening the other meridians of the body, cultivating the upper dantian, and opening the greater heavenly circuit. However, it is filled through a long alchemical process, which involves more than simply breathing. It is, in this tradition, via circulation through the ren and du mai, focus along certain areas, contraction of the right muscles at the right time, and a synthesis of several simultaneous inner processes, that the lower dantian is filled.

 

Filled as a word is probably misleading. Full is, in this content and my opinion, when there is an abundance of qi to such an extent that the pressure of outflow it exerts is so big that it exerts it on the rest of the body continuously, keeping the regular meridians open without needing the "push" of our intention. In my experience there is a difference between the space of the abdomen that can accomodate qi through inhalation and exhalation (the sea of qi), and the space where true yang is cultivated (the true elixir field). This latter space can be filled indefinitely, and when the capacity to hold what is being put there is insufficient, it will let its contents out into the rest of the energy system. A sort of "flowing over". This increases the body's general capacity, and in effect also it's capacity to hold qi. Thus, the more you fill the dantian, the more it can in turn be filled. Is it then ever "full"? Beats me, I'm a novice. However, I find that when treating patients, using qi filled through the sea of qi is sufficient, and this can be done with each breath.

 

The process is described in alchemical terms in the Can Tong Qi, and illustrated in the Nei Jing Tu. But to be properly understood, I do believe a teacher is required. During the years I have practiced it I have come a bit of a way, to the point that I can use my qi when doing acupuncture treatments with good results, but it is not without my teacher having to correct me once in a while (read as quite often) when I start straying off the actual path of practice for lesser ones. It takes lots of time, and lots of focus. I meditate three times a day sitting, and do semi-active practices in my day-to-day activities. I have been doing it for many years, and am still doing the same exercises as when I started. This is quite normal. There's no quick path. Without my teacher, I would have come nowhere. I'd probably be in the OTO chanting enochian or somesuch.

 

If any taobum lives in stockholm or the vicinity and wishes to learn from him, I can gladly give you his name and he will teach you if he wants to.

 

That being said, the rewards are great, and we all have so much time. Much more than we have patience, but that is also something we must learn to cultivate.

 

As a novice, that's all I know and can share, and even what I have said I am not so sure of when applied outside of myself.

 

Peace

 

 

My understanding is that if your leading qi all over your body with visualization or movement then its impossible to fill the dantian. It would take well over 20 years.

[dawei]

My understanding is that if your leading qi all over your body with visualization or movement then its impossible to fill the dantian. It would take well over 20 years.

 

Because that would be putting the cart before the horse...